RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. Many reasons. There will always be people who paper log. There will always be DXpeditions that paper log. There will always be DXers who do not own a computer and/or do not have access to the internet. Paper QSLs therefore should always be available. I can say with strict confidence after handling 3Y0X (and associated calls), and the recent VU7 operations, that paper QSLing produces a rather large funding source for the mega expensive DXpeditions. Actually, much larger than I had originally thought. This will never be recovered if LoTW is utilized soon after a DXpedition is over. Never. Trust me on this. If DXpeditions were forced to utilize LoTW, it would definitely negatively affect the funding. And as such, it could very well make it more difficult to do DXpeditions, especially to the rarer hard to reach entities. As for some sort of PayPal donation account tied to LoTW in order to fund DXpeditions, that would of course be in contradiction to DXCC rules that state that nobody can ever require payment for a QSL card. And it would not be fair at all. Most DXpeditions pride themselves in offering QSLs to ALL who work them and request a QSL card; even those who send a minimum SASE or SAE/GS or SAE/IRC get a QSL card. And yes, even via the QSL bureaus (in due time), and eventually via LoTW if they so desire. If the ARRL was to mandate DXpeditions utilizing LoTW, then they would also have to mandate use of the QSL bureau system! Hey! What is fair is fair? Right? (Not gonna happen. You know that!) Actually, I like the relatively new concept that a special souvenir QSL is available to those who donate to the DXpedition. That is a novel approach for funding. Nobody loses. Having been on many DXpeditions myself, I am humbled by those who make serious contributions with their QSL card request. Please, let's not take more away from the personal touch that a QSL card brings to our hobby and to the pursuit of the DXCC (and other) awards. Postage rates go up. Everything goes up! Have you seen the cost of buying coax lately? This same argument is as old as the US postal system. How do I feel about LoTW? I think it is a superb place for all who have access to it in the not so rare countries to be able to confirm QSO's in order to bypass bureau expenses. I also have no problem with DXpeditions uploading their logs a year or two afterwards, but only if they choose to do so. But beyond that, it should NEVER be used in order to avoid having to deal with paper QSLs. I say that is unfair to those who do not (or cannot) use LoTW. QSLs cards are great fun! I love 'em! We gotta keep 'em! See ya' in the Pileups! 73! Bob Schenck, N2OO GO SJDXA! www.sjdxa.org Old Barney ARC! www.obarc.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Notarius W3WN Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:03 PM To: DX Chat Reflector; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up Pete, If the ARRL or DXCC desk were to mandate LotW posting for DXCC approval, you would hear even more screaming from a certain small but vocal element of the DX community. And frankly, mandating it would probably backfire on the League. I just can't see them doing it. The continual increase in postage is going to put even more pressure, though, for electronic or other non-postal confirmations. Which in many ways is sad... there's nothing like the actual feel of a QSL card... and I for one get a small kick out of the 1932 W3WN card I have sitting in the shack right now, it conveys a sense of history that a computer entry or .jpg file online never will. We're just going to have to figure out an alternative funding method for DXpeditions. One thought would be this... if I work your DXpedition, one of thousands of W3's... why not permit me to confirm electronically via your web site, and not only request your return QSL the same way, but cover the postage and a donation cost on-line via a PayPal or similar service? There are some pitfalls in this, of course -- the biggest one of which is determining what the minimum charge would be to cover postage and handling, closely followed by the need to make any amount above and beyond that purely and totally voluntary. So it's a thought, but it needs work. We can do better. We should. We will; we'll have to. 73, ron w3wn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Dougherty Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DX-NEWS] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up At 02:33 PM 04/26/2007, John Warren wrote: Lou KE1F wrote; Is time to be modern and replace paper QSLs for QSO confirmation? Nope. I like browsing through my old-fashioned QSLs, and I'm quite willing to pay for that privilege. LOTW is fine as an option
RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
At 08:33 AM 4/27/2007, Bob Schenck, N2OO wrote: The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. AMEN!!! How I choose to handle my confirmations is no one else's business. I use LOTW, and like it, but for anyone to mandate it's use is pure BS. Gents, this is a HOBBY! The last time I checked, hobbies were for our enjoyment and participation, as much or little as we as individuals choose. Sheeeh! Ok, I'm off of my soap box(for now anyway). 73, Mike, W5UC age treachery will overcome youth skill http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
RIGHT ! CHEERS! Goran, 4N4AE/T98G Banja Luka SE Europe - Original Message - From: Mike(W5UC) Kathy(K5MWH) To: 'DX Chat Reflector' Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up At 08:33 AM 4/27/2007, Bob Schenck, N2OO wrote: The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done. LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such. AMEN!!! How I choose to handle my confirmations is no one else's business. I use LOTW, and like it, but for anyone to mandate it's use is pure BS. Gents, this is a HOBBY! The last time I checked, hobbies were for our enjoyment and participation, as much or little as we as individuals choose. Sheeeh! Ok, I'm off of my soap box(for now anyway). 73, Mike, W5UC age treachery will overcome youth skill http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/w5uc/ Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org __ NOD32 (20070426) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
Ah, but the DX manager wouldn't neccesarily have to. It is now possible to automate even the printing of the QSL cards, so that a DX Manager wouldn't have to sit there with thousands upon thousands of labels to process (just see the card I sent you for your C6A op as a perfect example). At the same time that one would order his QSL card(s), the op could also designate his desired mailing address, and that envelope too could be automatically printed -- and even automatically have the correct postage electronically affixed. So what would be left, the envelope stuffing? Betcha even that could be automated -- just find someone with access to a Pitney Bowes Documatch that could stuff cards into enveloes... There are a few DX stations already doing this, and the new Global QSL system is a variation on the theme (and it's run by hams who are commercial printers, from what I've gathered, so they have access to the right equipment) The catch, as you've correctly pointed out Pete, is that it opens the door to the potential of someone buying a QSL card without a valid contact. Or someone requiring a donation above and beyond reasonable return postage costs. But those are human, not technical problems. Figure out away around them, it could work. Maybe. Like I said before, it's a thought, but it needs refinement. 73 -Original Message- From: Peter Dougherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; DX Chat Reflector; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up clip One thought would be this... if I work your DXpedition, one of thousands of W3's... why not permit me to confirm electronically via your web site, and not only request your return QSL the same way, but cover the postage and a donation cost on-line via a PayPal or similar service? There are some pitfalls in this, of course -- the biggest one of which is determining what the minimum charge would be to cover postage and handling, closely followed by the need to make any amount above and beyond that purely and totally voluntary. So it's a thought, but it needs work. Yeah, you could quickly devolve into a charging for QSL quagmire. Besides, can you imagine being a DX QSL manager having to look up 40,000 addresses, format them for your labels, print and stick 40,000 address labels before even stuffing the cards? No, I think for QSL direct, the old tried-and-true method is just fine, as is the buro. But if you just want a confirmation for an award, screw it...LoTW is the best way to go. Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: U.S. Postal rates set to go up
At 08:03 PM 04/26/2007, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote: Pete, If the ARRL or DXCC desk were to mandate LotW posting for DXCC approval, you would hear even more screaming from a certain small but vocal element of the DX community. Probably would, but sometimes a kick in the rear end is needed to jump-start new technologies or methodologies. I'm sure at first Cabrillo logs weren't universally accepted either. Let 'em moan and whine, I say. It costs nothing to do, takes a few minutes to sign and upload and you do it ONCE. If you've gone around the globe, camped with 4 other guys in a tent that you shared with crabs the size of turtles, gotten sunburned on bits of your body you never knew existed and made survived 20 days on the HMS ArrrMatey, you can take a half-hour to upload to LoTW. And frankly, mandating it would probably backfire on the League. Maybe a little in the first year or two. Hold your ground, stick to your principles and it would be a no-brainer pretty quick after that. As for DXpeditions, I'm talking about making this a requirement for any operation that requires an entry permit, special permission from the telecommunications authority to operate from; not making every Tom, Dick and Harry go through this when he comes back from vacation (though my Q's were uploaded from C6 while I was still down there!) I just can't see them doing it. Sadly, I think you're right about that. The continual increase in postage is going to put even more pressure, though, for electronic or other non-postal confirmations. Which in many ways is sad... there's nothing like the actual feel of a QSL card... and I for one get a small kick out of the 1932 W3WN card I have sitting in the shack right now, it conveys a sense of history that a computer entry or .jpg file online never will. I'll still send for cards from all-time new ones, for rare band-fills and on difficult bands. And of course for memorable contacts. But how many Italian, French, British, Portuguese and German cards do you need/want? For that matter, how many American cards does a typical French, British, Portuguese or German ham need?! We're just going to have to figure out an alternative funding method for DXpeditions. Well, that's why I suggested mandating uploading to LoTW within a year (or even say 18 months - a reasonable figure, and still shorter than the buro for some people). Lots of DXpeditions are putting up PayPal donation links on their Web sites, which I think is a fantastic idea, too. One thought would be this... if I work your DXpedition, one of thousands of W3's... why not permit me to confirm electronically via your web site, and not only request your return QSL the same way, but cover the postage and a donation cost on-line via a PayPal or similar service? There are some pitfalls in this, of course -- the biggest one of which is determining what the minimum charge would be to cover postage and handling, closely followed by the need to make any amount above and beyond that purely and totally voluntary. So it's a thought, but it needs work. Yeah, you could quickly devolve into a charging for QSL quagmire. Besides, can you imagine being a DX QSL manager having to look up 40,000 addresses, format them for your labels, print and stick 40,000 address labels before even stuffing the cards? No, I think for QSL direct, the old tried-and-true method is just fine, as is the buro. But if you just want a confirmation for an award, screw it...LoTW is the best way to go. Cheers, Peter, W2IRT Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-chat To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
