Many people find this useful. I sure did when I needed it.
http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm
mt
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I think this "limited time only" idea defeats the purpose of the whole
software environment. Why should I buy a community building tool that
will not be available to potential members of my local community?
What are the prospects of a commercial product running the XO software system?
I agree, I
I agree that the concept of a "variable" is deeply unpythonic in most contexts.
It is one thing for those of us who have learned our skills on
inferior platforms to retrain our thinking. It is another thing
entirely to foist our own confusions on those learning.
The best introduction to Python ob
Google code. http://code.google.com/hosting .
Most wikis are code-unfriendly. You'll have to jump through a few
hoops to get started, but you won't actually have to install your own
wiki. Google code is what you need, I think.
If you are willing to do some sysadmin, as far as open source wikis
go
On 9/8/07, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'll tie this to education but regarding Pythons and constrictors
> in general, they have this tendency to eat rodents.
ChiPy the Chicago Python chipmunk thinks otherwise:
http://chipy.org/chipy/chipy/img/OR_chipy_moin.png
mt
__
It's interesting you mention roomba in the same posting.
I had the same idea, and ithe game I have in mind is explicitly about
virtual roombas!
We would provide a virtual world in which different colored vaccum
cleaners could suck up dirt off a virtual carpet or bonk each other
off course. Each p
Thanks, Dethe, that's very nice, and also thanks for your signature,
which is thought provoking indeed.
Does anyone agree with me about the didactic value of this change?
mt
On 8/3/07, Dethe Elza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3-Aug-07, at 11:17 AM, Michael Tobis wrote:
>
&
One problem I have consistently had with beginners is in explaining
the difference between how the interpreter produces output without an
explicit 'print' statement (producing the str() of the last evaluated
expression) and how python run from a file does not.
This is perfectly natural and useful
A lot of the Python-first stuff out there is aimed at the college
level, where opportunities like the yours are more common than at the
high school level.
You may wish to take into account whether this is part of the
curriculum or a voluntary after-school activity. In the latter case,
it's crucial
Apparently meta-sig is moderated.
I should say my reply will hopefully appear shortly on meta-sig.
mt
On 7/18/07, Michael Tobis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am mentioned in Paul Fernhout's posting. Per Guido's request to keep
> such matters off-list, my reply
I am mentioned in Paul Fernhout's posting. Per Guido's request to keep
such matters off-list, my reply is on meta-sig.
mt
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On 7/17/07, Guido van Rossum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am seeing signals that there's been too much politics and not enough
> Python or education on this list. While discussion of educational
> politics is a worthy cause, I want to present a strawman that excludes
> its discussion on this lis
I consider Kirby's a grossly inappropriate response to Sven's query.
While I respect Kirby for his contributions I wish he would put a tiny
fraction of his attention into which of his posts were helpful to the
community and which not.
Mic
I am not totally sold on hackety; not having had access to MS Windows
of late I haven't played with it.
I am saying that the whole business is great fun if approached right,
and there at least hackety has much to teach us.
I have had great success starting with ascii art, drawing boxes and
triang
Sorry, but I don't think you've successfully motivated your students
if that is all they can do in a month. Let me hazard a suggestion.
Rather than being too mabitious you are not being ambitious enough.
Scripting languages have batteries included. Doing the stuff you would
have done with BASIC in
As I understand it, raw_input will be renamed input in 3.0, and the
function currently implemented as input would go away, requiring you
to invoke eval(input("prompt")) if you need its functionality. Thus,
the PEP text you quote doesn't correspond to my understanding, based
on what I took from GvR'
Jeff: sorry for the double mailing; I erroneously replied to you and not all.
All:
On 5/26/07, Jeff Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Tobis wrote:
> > Is education Python's killer app? I think it could be.
> >
> > I used the occasion of the Python
Is education Python's killer app? I think it could be.
I used the occasion of the Python Papers to motivate my efforts to
explain this idea, and you can see what I came up with on pages
8-15.
The part that makes me especially queasy is the CP4E section on pages
10-11. I wish I had more to say the
tops" story. If anyone has a copy I'd
appreciate a scan or a transcription.
mt
On 5/9/07, Michael Tobis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up.
>
> It's not the only story and that one doesn't appear to be OLPC
> centric. Alas, the spin is more o
Thanks for the heads up.
It's not the only story and that one doesn't appear to be OLPC
centric. Alas, the spin is more or less as I suggested in my recent
posting.
See
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=5
which currently reads
===
Schools Reconsider Laptops as Educational
The NY Times had an article last week about schools backing off the
idea of laptops for students.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/education/04laptop.html
a snippet:
==>
So the Liverpool Central School District, just outside Syracuse, has
decided to phase out laptops starting this fall, joining
Well, if you (and anyone else) could take a stab at it this week I'd
appreciate it. I am finalizing the article this weekend.
Of course, better late than never, but better sooner than late is also true...
mt
On 4/17/07, Ivan Krstić <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Tobis
ever aspire
to.
thanks for your attention
Michael Tobis
PS - anonymous blog comments are enabled, if you'd like to reply there.
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I think we actually need to compete, not to shrug and hope the best
platform wins. The fact that Python has the momentum it does with its
rather laid back attitude toward evangelism is a testament to its
strength as a platform and a community. I don't think that excuses us
from trying much harder t
This is all great stuff! Thanks to all who responded here or in email!
However so far this all goes to only half of the questions I am trying
to address.
I'd also like to consider the bad news. At least three important
projects that I know of have abandoned Python in favor of Java or
Squeak:
1)
On 3/27/07, Ivan Krstić <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Tobis wrote:
> So when I see code that reads about as easily on a Python list, I think
> it might be time to tell people to step back, take a deep breath, and
> remember there's a reason they're using Pyt
Thanks. Kirby's is an interesting response with which I basically agree.
Those of us who learned programming when the model was close to the
machine model (Fortran, C) have had a hard time wrapping our heads
around objects.
A good friend whom I very much admire has argued (this was per-Python
so
Oof.
(Thanks.) :-}
Proving once again that eyeballing the test is not running the test!
As penance I have reduced it from seven lines to six. This one is actually
tested.
import sys
concord = {}
for word in [token.lower() for token in open(sys.argv
[1],"r").read().split()]:
concord
Seven lines seems reasonable to me:
##
import sys
concord = {}
for word in [token.lower() for token in open(sys.argv
[1],"r").read().split()]:
concord[word] = concord.get(word,0) + 1
result = sorted([(item[1],item[0]) for item in concord.items
()],reverse=True)
for pair in result:
will be very interesting to see if this helps move the conversation
forward. The best outcome would be if we discover "low-hanging fruit" to
advance the cause. Please lend a hand.
see http://pencilscience.blogspot.com/
with pythonical regards,
Michael Tobis
o serve as an occasion to update the edu-sig page!
Michael Tobis
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I think we'd all be thrilled to have an OLPC (One Laptop Per Child)
presentation as part of edupython. This would involve:
moving the presentation to the Preston Trail II room at 8 PM
else:
moving edupython to the room where OLPC is currently scheduled
Which should it be?
mt
On 2/20/07, I
Saturday
Night
They are also sending me a banquet menu and I'll look into it, but I think
it would be easier with room service for everyone to get what they want.
Any objections? If not please consider this a plan. See you Saturday 7 PM!
Michael
Ray Pierrehumbert is using Python to teach undergraduate courses in
atmospheric science (a survey of climate physics) at the University of
Chicago, and is writing a book based on it.
Ray tells me his publisher did not allow any Python in the text, so he had
to write pseudocode in the text, but Py
ston Trail II room? Or in
> the hotel restaurant?
>
> Vern
>
> Michael Tobis wrote:
> > I have contacted the open space coordinator regarding space for Satruday
> > evening.
> >
> > I am at present inclined to back off presenting a newby lecture for
> >
esent my
approach to the group at our open space session.
Please pitch in to improve the content of
http://us.pycon.org/TX2007/PyEduto soften us up for whatever point of
view you bring to the discussion and
to attract more participants.
best regards to all
Michael
Happy February y'all.
So, what are we planning to do at PyCon in the edu-sig? It's linked from the
PyCon 07 front page but doesn't seem to go anywhere. Is there some
organizing activity that I don't know about?
Any ideas about rooms, times, presentations? Another dinner?
mt
f people could attend your talk before
going
to the lab, unfortunatly it is running Friday evening, so I doubt that
will
happen.
-Doug
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vern Ceder
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 1:47 PM
&
e features, in that it gives
people the flavor of programming in just one session.
best
Michael Tobis
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I'll be giving a brief talk and trying to facilitate discussion at
ChiPy (the Chicago Python association) tomorrow (July 13) evening (7
PM) in downtown Chicago (Performics, 180 N Lasalle, suite 1100) on
Crunchy Frog, Spiny Norman, and networked tools for education
(Note there will also be a talk
Kirby, I am confident you are dealing with a different population with
different interests and skills. Some of my students are taking the
course because they are math-averse, and Loyola allows the survey of
computing as a fulfillment of a math requirement in business and
liberal arts curricula INST
I am just getting started on teaching python as a first language. (The
same course at the same university that Andy is teaching this fall,
actually.) Since the course is actually a breadth introduction to
computing as well as an introduction to programming, time is of the
essence.
My decision was
On 5/1/06, Andre Roberge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So for scalability, deployment, and support as well as security, I
> > think computations should be done on the client, and the end user
> > should not be required to run a localhost server.
>
> Doing (Python) computation on the client is what
We are thinking very much along the same lines in terms of the
experience we intend to provide to the student.
Your efforts are somewhat orthogonal to my preliminary goal of having
secure doctests that are verified on the server but run on the client.
I think we should coordinate so that our effor
There is a profound relationship between gaming and education, one
which is not primarily about sounds and graphics, but about goals,
rewards, and sequencing.
A very simple example of what I mean is at pythonchallenge.com . There
is some effort not to expose the nth problem to you until you have
d
>From the edu-sig list
I wrote:
>> On the other hand, let me remind everyone that many people despair of
>> this list because it spends too much time on impractical generalities.
>> So I would add that we shouldn't mistake interesting conversations for
>> progress. Many of the topics raised here
Ian, among his talents, has a knack for terse, interesting
generalizations. His style is so laid back that sometimes I wonder if
other people notice how clever some of the things he says are. For
instance:
"we shouldn't mistake design
problems for deep and useful ideas. There's hard and deep and
Andre, I agree with your summary, and I don't think you went wrong in any way.
I am simply saying that the first approach is much easier than the
second and raises far fewer issues, probably with the proviso that the
tests themselves must be trusted.
The design I am proposing is responsive to a c
On 4/23/06, Ian Bicking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ... except for being the client at the lowest level, it
> > looks a lot like an XML-RPC server, interpreting known requests
>
> XML-RPC is just specially-formatted HTTP requests, so it wouldn't effect
> any port security.
I wonder if I am su
On 4/23/06, Ian Bicking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Have you guys contacted the people doing sandboxed Python on the web?
> I've seen two of them, but I can't for the life of me remember where and
> my searching has been fruitless so far. I think both people hang out on
> comp.lang.python.
Is th
Ah, but see, the sandbox is unnecessary if the doctest runs on the
client. Which is why the first pass is a small job.
mt
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I agree with the subject line.
Jeff, the not-very-rich client idea we discussed at PyCon is very much
on my mind.
I think I've got a realistic design for a doctest-driven beginners'
programming courseware suitable for presenting HHTLCSpy - type
materials that can be put together in a week or so w
Arthur (addressing you directly) does your code use any threading
library at all?
Did you bring up concurrency at all?
If not, what do you suppose these people are going on about?
mt
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> Then it is the language implementor's headache to make the locking mechanism
> work.
"from threading import Lock"
generally works for me.
Arthur is not implementing a general purpose thread-safe language, so
like him I continue to be confused as to the relevance of this
conversation to his p
While PyPy is a most admirable endeavor, I can't imagine that it can
resolve this problem. I'll be most pleased to discover that I am
wrong, so please correct me.
Is scientific programming a target usage of PyPy?
In particular, how could large arrays of numbers of homogeneous type
be handled out
I use numeric a lot, and I understand what you mean.
Perhaps there is some Python-like scientific language yet to be
invented, but on the other hand, perhaps the interface between
convenient latent typing and efficient strong typing may be fated to
always be a bit uncomfortable.
Meanwhile I have
> This reminds me of a question I have with new-style classes.
I just asked basically this question on c.l.p, and Alex Martelli has
answered, quite helpfully. See topic
"can't rebind magic methods'
Michael Tobis
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Well, if you are sacrificing performance, what is wrong with wrapping
the complex number in a pure python class with all the magic methods
overridden?
I share your objectives and agree that Python provides a platform for
addressing them. See my article at
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~tobis/ciseps.
> And I can't easily explain why I felt the need to push it a step further -
Do give it a try, please.
> to in fact having a more truly full implementation of complex numerics
> contained *as* my object - not as an attribute of it. But there were
> reasons. Some more practical, more less.
Well
The following, modulo a pronoun shift were exactly the words I was
sitting down to type.
> I am not designing a programming language, I am designing an application.
That is why, to me, the advice offerred to date seems quite far off the mark.
> And bingo - for that application I need them to be
On 3/17/06, Dethe Elza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nope, perfectly willing to be shown otherwise. On the other hand,
> folks have dropped off the list, or threatened to, in part because of
> your attacks on other posters.
My interest in justice has overwhelmed my interest in discretion. I
have f
Thank you for a refreshingly terse and substantive comment! Let's have
more of those!
mt
On 3/17/06, Scott David Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Instead of having my geometric objects of the complex plane *be* complex
> > numbes,
> > there is certainly the sol
A Numeric array is mutable; it refers to allocated memory. So any
subpart of it is mutable. So I suggest you use a 1-element complex
numeric array as your mutable complex type.
>>> import Numeric as N
>>> a = N.ones((20,20),N.Complex)
>>> b = N.ravel(a[1:2,1:2])
>>> b
array([ 1.+0.j])
>>> id(b)
27
# I love Python!
import datetime# batteries included!
me = datetime.date(1954,9,1)
dog = datetime.date(2006,3,7)
print me + (7 * (dog - me)/6)
# mt
On 3/7/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's a quick puzzle, that'd make a good source of Python programs,
> or programs in othe
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