On 9/16/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> kirby urner wrote:
>
> >
> > OK, I'll lurk for awhile
>
> Aaah
>
> thank you Mr. Urner.
>
Well, that was kinda boring. Guess everyone "has a life" outside of
edu-sig. Surprise surprise.
I almost broke down and but a fancy (blue) TI calculator
kirby urner wrote:
>
> OK, I'll lurk for awhile
Aaah
thank you Mr. Urner.
And if things go relatively quiet here as result, a few announcements
here and there, and ask for help on this or that, sounds fine.
You and I have had 5 years to cover our respective territories.
It will give me
> One of us *does* need to go away.
>
> How about this time its you.
>
>
> Art
OK, I'll lurk for awhile, see what this group's like without my
barrage of input.
Not signing off though.
I can be an effective activist without offending poor little Arthur
and his delicate Pyego.
Kirby
kirby urner wrote:
>
> In what way?
Many. many.
See this post.
See most of your posts.
You are about as Full(er) of yourself as anyone I have ever encountered.
You in fact hold a candle to Alan Kay.
One of us *does* need to go away.
How about this time its you.
Art
>
__
On 9/16/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Absolutely it does. My recommendation happens to be one called Python.
So Python wins another fan.
> I don't require that my views represent anything new. That's a harder
> task than I am prepared to try to handle, under this Sun.
You've arrived
On 9/16/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It must be on the right track.
>
> And I can't see how any reasonable person could be against that, which I why I
> thought you were saying something else ;-). By all means, let's agree that
> teaching some programming as part of math is a sens
John Zelle wrote:
>>It is modest. It is unconnected with Revelation, New Ages, and Second
>>Comings. It brings us to no new dimensions. It actually brings no new
>>great amount of stature to the geeks of the world, or to the software
>>industry.
>>
>>It must be on the right track.
>>
>>
>
>A
On Saturday 16 September 2006 9:35 am, Arthur wrote:
> John Zelle wrote:
> >no, No, NO. I never said this. At least I didn't intend to. Please see the
> > top of the message where I ask (virtually beg) for clarification on what
> > you are saying. I thought you were saying that it's OK to teach
> >
kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/16/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I am trying to say that some integration of algorithmics into required
>> math education is eminently sensible.
>
>
> As stated, that's too watered down to make a difference I should
> think. Of course math education centers
On 9/16/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am trying to say that some integration of algorithmics into required
> math education is eminently sensible.
As stated, that's too watered down to make a difference I should
think. Of course math education centers around algorithmics to some
degr
John Zelle wrote:
>no, No, NO. I never said this. At least I didn't intend to. Please see the top
>of the message where I ask (virtually beg) for clarification on what you are
>saying. I thought you were saying that it's OK to teach programming in a math
>class, because it's being used there to
On 9/15/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just go
>
> a = sys.stdin.readline()[:-1] # because you didn't mean to include /n
>
> ?
>
> Kirby
Sorry: \n
>>> print 'the dog\n'
the dog
>>> print 'the dog\n'[:-1]
the dog
>>>
Note extra blank line.
One thing I liked about that Salon art
On 9/15/06, John Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (1) ... indicates the fact that these two functions were really designed for
> different purposes: getting data from a file vs. getting data interactively
> from a person.
>
H, didn't know about that difference (I still haven't read the
ori
My apologies if someone else has already pointed out this difference between
sys.stdin.readline() and raw_input(): they return different strings.
>>> a = sys.stdin.readline()
spam
>>> b = raw_input()
spam
>>> a
'spam\n'
>>> b
'spam'
IMHO, that trailing NL character ...
(1) ... indicates the f
- Original Message -
From: kirby urner
> I know that all sounds meshuganistic to your ears (a lotta crazy
> talk).
"meshuganistic"
Not a generally accepted idiom, but I can work with it.
It is of course Shoshoni we are speaking ;)
Art
__
On 9/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Make it easier.
>
> Pleease.
>
> Art
>
I think to make it easy for the many, it has to be hard for the few.
Yes, s'been frustrating. Monkey brains everywhere. :-D
But you shouldn't worry Arthur. For one thing,
Kirby,
You must be *very* frustrated.
Because you are sounding highly meshuga.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/66/M0236625.html
No chance the problem is your sales pitch, not the underlying substance.
It's hard to buy what a meshugana is selling.
Make it easier.
Plee
On 9/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There is no such thing as gnu math, so I have idea what the hell
> you are talking about.
>
I beg to differ, except begging isn't really my style.
> >
> > Disney is a stronger teacher than Heidegger in my book.
>
> And if you submit that
- Original Message -
From: kirby urner
Date: Friday, September 15, 2006 12:09 pm
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000
To: Arthur
Cc: John Zelle , edu-sig@python.org
> On 9/15/06, Arthur wrote:
>
> > Trying to sing it from the Disney and HP pulpits
On 9/15/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Trying to sing it from the Disney and HP pulpits - if nothing else -
> maybe it necessarily off-key. Thinking no one would notice from where
> he was singing it made it arrogantly off-key.
But you see, for me, if Steve Jobs ran some humvees into A
kirby urner wrote:
> And in sounding this note, I think you and Alan Kay are in perfect
> harmony. He's sung that tune for years, and not even often key.
Trying to sing it from the Disney and HP pulpits - if nothing else -
maybe it necessarily off-key. Thinking no one would notice from where
On 9/15/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I keep thinking that your analysis here is confounded with your
> Fullerism, which is why I come at it a bit and try to encourage
> you to separate it from your interest in programming/math
> synergies. Not asking or expecting you to co
kirby urner wrote:
> Just keeping stuff the same is comfortable and comforting. All you
> need for a conspiracy is a shared tacit investment in "not rocking the
> boat". Nothing deeply sinister. But the consequences may be
> nevertheless ugly.
>
Somehow can't let this go.
I keep thinking that
On 9/14/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ok so far. Except I like to eat chicken well enough.
>
Funny.
I wrote my post, took Tara to the dentist, then came back and found it
on my screen. Thought not sent after all. Added a parenthetical
about chicken. Then saw I'd really posted to va
On 9/14/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> introduction to algebra class. Or perhaps a better example, does a Calculus
> class have to also pay homage to linear algebra? Does a formal logic class
> need to be about calculus? Why isn't programming itself a legitimate entree
> into the "wor
kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/14/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> introduction to algebra class. Or perhaps a better example, does a
>> Calculus
>> class have to also pay homage to linear algebra? Does a formal logic
>> class
>> need to be about calculus? Why isn't programming itself a
On 9/14/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> introduction to algebra class. Or perhaps a better example, does a Calculus
> class have to also pay homage to linear algebra? Does a formal logic class
> need to be about calculus? Why isn't programming itself a legitimate entree
> into the "wor
On Thursday 14 September 2006 9:57 am, Arthur wrote:
> John Zelle wrote:
> >I _think_ I'm all for this, but again I'm not sure I know exactly what you
> > are saying. If you are saying that students might get interested in
> > programming through exposure in math (or some other "domain") and then
>
John Zelle wrote:
>I _think_ I'm all for this, but again I'm not sure I know exactly what you are
>saying. If you are saying that students might get interested in programming
>through exposure in math (or some other "domain") and then want to turn to CS
>classes to learn more, that sounds like
On Wednesday 13 September 2006 10:22 am, Arthur wrote:
> John Zelle wrote:
> >I think it's obvious to everyone that a course that tackles "real world"
> >problems will be more interesting than one that doesn't. But that doesn't
> >mean simple scripts can't address real world issues.
>
> But there i
John Zelle wrote:
>So yes, we want our
>students to be reading cade, especially good code
>
How good?
Another subtle problem.
One of my difficulties in becoming self-taught fluent in certain
mathematical ideas:
Educators don't want to communicate something irresponsible in
connection with t
John Zelle wrote:
>I think it's obvious to everyone that a course that tackles "real world"
>problems will be more interesting than one that doesn't. But that doesn't
>mean simple scripts can't address real world issues.
>
But there is a basic, probably irreversible - anti-synergistic -
evolut
A new twist on this thread: discussing the very nature of intro courses.
Should we read more code and program less, should our programs build to
something and not be a bunch of random scripts?
I think it's obvious to everyone that a course that tackles "real world"
problems will be more interes
Joshua Zucker wrote:
Different people are saying differently nuanced things, true enough.
But I was pointing to a particularly post, which seemed to have a way,
way down the road approach. You can check me out on this by looking at
the Python3000 list of yesterday.
But in these kinds of discu
On 9/13/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As it happens, on a *read* basis, about the first thing one can expect
> to encounter and need to explain (maybe after the doc string) is the
> "import" statement. To me this feels exactly right. OTOH, a recent
> post on the Python3000 list - discu
Peter Bowyer wrote:
> At 11:47 13/09/2006, Arthur wrote:
>
>> I can imagine an introductory course that was in fact more a
>> *reading* course than a writing course - that spent a good deal of
>> its time analyzing the code of relatively straightforward, but
>> interesting, working application
At 11:47 13/09/2006, Arthur wrote:
>I can imagine an introductory course that was in fact more a
>*reading* course than a writing course - that spent a good deal of
>its time analyzing the code of relatively straightforward, but
>interesting, working applications. The satellite view, before we
Peter Bowyer wrote:
>The teaching material
>did not link everything together so that at the end of the 10 week
>course you had a large application which you'd built on every
>week. Instead you had a pile of useless scripts all totally separate
>giving no idea that software you could write mig
[send this to Kirby rather than the list...]
At 22:27 08/09/2006, Kirby Urner wrote:
>Just to clarify: I think it *is* condescending to newbies to force
>them through a lot of raw_input scripts, since this is:
I felt exactly the same when I took the introductory programming
course for scientist
On 9/12/06, Andre Roberge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yet, I think it is a mistake to remove it (as I have stated before).
> To those that disagree, I would ask: how do you propose in concrete
> terms (not pie-in-the-sky) to replace Zelle`s book, Dawson's book and
> How to think like a computer s
Hi all,
I was going to do like John Zelle, and stop contributing to this
point, but I have a lot less discipline than he does.
A while ago, out of curiosity I bought "Python programming for the
absolute beginner" by Michael Dawson to see his approach as it is
considered an extremely newbie-friend
On 9/12/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Top-to-bottom executable scripting, with maybe forks in the road, as in:
>
> dumb_user_says = raw_input("yes or no?: ")
>
> and likely no going back if you answer it wrong:
>
> confirm = raw_input("are you sure??")
>
"... is a style we don't re
On 9/8/06, Joshua Zucker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/8/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think the model today is "a person writing code for him or herself"
> > i.e. "self as client" -- at least in an early context. We're not
> > guiding the unknowing through a menu tree. We
kirby urner wrote:
>> You can find me over at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> -Doug
>>
>>
>
> Who said we couldn't be passionate and hostile as teachers? As long
> as we have it under control.
>
> I'm just registering my attitude, risking no one's reputation but my
> own, on a list set aside for teac
On 9/9/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/9/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >import math
> > >math.cos( 90 * math.degrees)
> >
> > It doesn't belong to you, it doesn't belong to Fuller, it ain't "gnu
> > math" because there ain't no such thing. Except to you and six guy
On 9/9/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> import myhousehold
> >>> myDog = Dog("Sarah Angel")
Sorry:
myDog = myhousehold.Dog("Sarah Angel")
we might imagine a SOAP service, plus myDog automatically aquires all
kinds of tags, thanks to an SQL lookup inside her parent Multnomah
Coun
On 9/9/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >import math
> >math.cos( 90 * math.degrees)
>
> It doesn't belong to you, it doesn't belong to Fuller, it ain't "gnu
> math" because there ain't no such thing. Except to you and six guys in
> some Mecca called Portland.
>
Did you understand the di
kirby urner wrote:
> Quite frankly, I expect to recruit *very few* buckaneers to my school
> by saying such horrifying things as I dare say to those here
> assembled. I am *not* preaching to some choir on edu-sig, quite
> obviously.
>
Yuo can choose to be horrifying.
I do, at times, as we all k
On 9/9/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But for someone trying to maintain some hope it might end up otherwise,
> it does seem a pity I am not shaped like a regular tetrahedron, or
> willing to do battle under the CP4E flag, Kirby interpretation.
>
> Close, but no cigar.
>
> Art
We don't
kirby urner wrote:
>
> You say I'm just pushing what'll happen by natural evolution if I just
> abandoned my to-your-ears arrogant tone. Just let the invisible hand
> do the job, so no one gets all the credit.
No.
I think I am saying that unless folks like you and I find some way to
work toget
> I'm quoting the sensible part.
>
> And the part that does not belong to you, and which you are relentlessly
> trying to trademark.
>
Hmmm, trademark, now *there's* an idea. Python as a Calulator [tm].
But seriously, when you have a lot of Objects (like Monkeys and Dogs)
and want to puppet them
kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/9/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> kirby urner wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >import math
>> >math.cos( 90 * math.degrees)
>> >
>> >-- that's what a first class might include. If what stops 'em isn't
>> >the Python syntax, but the trig, then we go over the trig. Basic
>>
On 9/9/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I go mano vs. mano with the Big Boys at MIT ;)
>
Sounds awfully sumo. Hope yer doin' some good eatin'!
> You seem to be up against one nut you found on a math list somewhere.
> That don't pass as visionary credentials, in my book.
>
> Art
I don't
On 9/9/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> kirby urner wrote:
>
> >
> >import math
> >math.cos( 90 * math.degrees)
> >
> >-- that's what a first class might include. If what stops 'em isn't
> >the Python syntax, but the trig, then we go over the trig. Basic
> >numeracy. All as a bundle. Not
Arthur wrote:
>kirby urner wrote:
>
>
>
>>import math
>>math.cos( 90 * math.degrees)
>>
>>-- that's what a first class might include. If what stops 'em isn't
>>the Python syntax, but the trig, then we go over the trig. Basic
>>numeracy. All as a bundle. Not your grandfathers math class (but
On Saturday 09 September 2006 12:35 pm, you wrote:
> But mostly I'm advocating going to the other extreme: drop GUI as a
> topic and just code up a namespace, reach into the grab bag for
> functions, like f(x) or cos(x). We pretend kids don't have the
> background, but if they did *any* work wi
kirby urner wrote:
>
>import math
>math.cos( 90 * math.degrees)
>
>-- that's what a first class might include. If what stops 'em isn't
>the Python syntax, but the trig, then we go over the trig. Basic
>numeracy. All as a bundle. Not your grandfathers math class (but
>some hoped it'd be for the
On 9/9/06, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is that bad?
>
> Yes, less than 4% of the world's population live in the USA and learns in a
> completely different environment.
>
>
> Michael.
More advanced, I would hope. The USA is crawling with slow-goer
bullies, who want to keep the kids in t
On 9/9/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is like saying that Physics students have to start with General
> Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, because those are state of the art. No one
> is denying that it's good to teach GUI programming at some point. Is that the
> simplest way to i
On 9/9/06, Brad Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In my world I get first year college students that want to major in computer
> science that have zero experience with programming. We get good bright
> young students from small towns and small schools. They don't have Saturday
> Academy. The
On 9/9/06, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 08 September 2006 23:28, kirby urner wrote:
> > It's a rather large vocabulary sometimes, but the sense of a
> > namepaces, perhaps augmentable (definitely augmentable in Python) is
> > the "first encounter" we want to promote.
>
> NO IT'S N
On Friday 08 September 2006 4:27 pm, kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/8/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You're not making a monkey out of your mom, by making her loop through
> > some little menu, oblivious of the language underneath, its logic and
> > design. You're "protecting you mother
On Sep 8, 2006, at 4:27 PM, kirby urner wrote:On 9/8/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You're not making a monkey out of your mom, by making her loop throughsome little menu, oblivious of the language underneath, its logic anddesign. You're "protecting you mother" (aka paradigm end user)
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:28, kirby urner wrote:
> If you're objecting to my glancing reference to USA politics, then I
> think you're awfully stringent. We're pretty free ranging around
> here, like uncaged egg layers.
>
> Is that bad?
Yes, less than 4% of the world's population live in the
On Friday 08 September 2006 23:28, kirby urner wrote:
> It's a rather large vocabulary sometimes, but the sense of a
> namepaces, perhaps augmentable (definitely augmentable in Python) is
> the "first encounter" we want to promote.
NO IT'S NOT. You are not the world.
It's a first encounter that Y
Thanks, Kirby, for cluing me in that I hadn't posted it to the list.
--Joshua
-- Forwarded message --
From: Joshua Zucker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sep 8, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000
To: kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED
> > I have a hard time getting through your rhetoric.
>
> I think it's quite expressive.
:-)
Toby
--
Dr. Toby Donaldson
School of Computing Science
Simon Fraser University (Surrey)
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On 9/8/06, Dan Crosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But let's be realistic: my mom has only recently learned to understand
> email, she's not about to go out and program her own spam filter. It's
> just not in her skillset, and more importantly, her interest set. I
> think you're projecting a bit o
> Kirby
> CEO, 4D Studios
> Silicon Forest
> Portand (Oregon)
um, Portland.
Kirby
myspace.com/4dstudios for more re my ToonTown enterprise.
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kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/8/06, Dan Crosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> It may not be how you like to teach computer programming or interacting
>> with computers, but I think there's a very important case to be made for
>> "other as client" at the very beginning, as a way of keeping it
>> inter
On 9/8/06, Toby Donaldson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think the model today is "a person writing code for him or herself"
> > i.e. "self as client" -- at least in an early context.
> > We're not guiding the unknowing through a menu tree. We're computer
> > literate,
> > fluent. Why would we
On 9/8/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/8/06, Toby Donaldson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Teaching is filled with IOUs. We often use things before we completely
> > understand them.
> >
> > Toby
>
> I would like a deeper discussion of why we still need to prompt
> ourselves for
On 9/8/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You're not making a monkey out of your mom, by making her loop through
> some little menu, oblivious of the language underneath, its logic and
> design. You're "protecting you mother" (aka paradigm end user) from
> knowing *anything* about Pytho
On 9/8/06, Dan Crosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It may not be how you like to teach computer programming or interacting
> with computers, but I think there's a very important case to be made for
> "other as client" at the very beginning, as a way of keeping it
> interesting, when someone else i
From: John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> > But I honestly believe all that buys me is the ability to be a> > run-of-the-mill-programmer.> > Perhaps, but no where near a run-of-the-mill student.
For the record, I think that is really only a matter of degree of motivation.
Alice's "lessons", for ex
kirby urner wrote:
> I would like a deeper discussion of why we still need to prompt
> ourselves for input.
>
> I think the model today is "a person writing code for him or herself"
> i.e. "self as client" -- at least in an early context. We're not
> guiding the unknowing through a menu tree. We
On 9/8/06, Toby Donaldson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Teaching is filled with IOUs. We often use things before we completely
> understand them.
>
> Toby
I would like a deeper discussion of why we still need to prompt
ourselves for input.
I think the model today is "a person writing code for him
On 9/8/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK, I lied: one last post. I see no problem with posting a message to whatever
> group seems most appropriate and including a pointer to the discussion on
> this thread. That's not "dragging edu-sig into a political role" it's simply
> avoiding reh
From: John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > That's assuming that the goal of said education is to produce > professional > programmers. I believe that everyone has something to gain from > learning what > software is really all about. Most will not rise to the level of > professional > (or even compete
- Original Message -From: John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Friday, September 8, 2006 2:51 pmSubject: Re: [Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000To: edu-sig@python.org> On Friday 08 September 2006 1:33 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> > From: "Radenski, Atanas"> >> > > You are obvio
On Friday 08 September 2006 1:33 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> From: "Radenski, Atanas"
>
> > You are obviously way more intelligent than the average student
> > whom we need to teach.
>
> Standardized testing seems to indicate me to be a good deal to the better
> spectrum of the bell curve.
>
> B
From: "Radenski, Atanas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> You are obviously way more intelligent than the average student > whom we need to teach.
Standardized testing seems to indicate me to be a good deal to the better spectrum of the bell curve.
But I honestly believe all that buys me is the ability t
OK, I lied: one last post. I see no problem with posting a message to whatever
group seems most appropriate and including a pointer to the discussion on
this thread. That's not "dragging edu-sig into a political role" it's simply
avoiding rehashing what I think has been a fruitful discussion. Th
> > What if instead of naming the package "teaching", it was called
> > something less offensive, like "simpleIO" or "userinput" or
> > "interactive" or "convenience"?
>
> This is a plausible way to remove the 'teaching' label. I would prefer
> 'stdin'.
'stdin' is probably meaningless to beginners
> Removing input() FORCES people to have to address import, streams, dot
> notation,
> functions, and strings.
How does using the input function avoid the use of functions? :-)
Keep in mind that most students have no problem *using* unexplained
features if there is a good reason to use them. For
On 9/8/06, Ian Bicking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't understand your strong reaction. OK -- saying "if Python 3k
> takes away input() then I'm going to use Ruby" is pretty lame and will
> keep an opinion from being taken seriously. But all Doug was talking
> about was registering the opin
kirby urner wrote:
> As a teacher, I'd be deeply ashamed to have my name on a Python
> Petition of any kind, unless Guido had already signed off on that as a
> viable community process. To my knowledge, he hasn't. Maybe I'm out
> of date.
I don't understand your strong reaction. OK -- saying "i
> You can find me over at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Doug
>
Who said we couldn't be passionate and hostile as teachers? As long
as we have it under control.
I'm just registering my attitude, risking no one's reputation but my
own, on a list set aside for teachers (which is what I am).
I think the p
Douglas S. Blank wrote:
> Kirby,
>
> As a teacher, I don't have time to argue over on python-dev what should
> and should not be included in the language. And don't want to! I am
> thinking of our "petition nonsense" as a data point for those people
> that do take the time over on python-dev to
kirby urner wrote:
[snip]
> I'm sick of these "teachers" you keep talking about. They should all
> just go away, and let the real programmers have their jobs. Don't
> even *think* about teaching Python if you haven't coded in it
> professionally and made real money off it. That's closer to my
On 9/8/06, Douglas S. Blank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kirby,
>
> As a teacher, I don't have time to argue over on python-dev what should
> and should not be included in the language. And don't want to! I am
> thinking of our "petition nonsense" as a data point for those people
> that do take the
On 9/8/06, Radenski, Atanas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You are obviously way more intelligent than the average student whom we need
> to teach. > Our job is to teach Python programming to anyone who may happen
> to be in our
> classes. What is good for you may not be good for ordinary beginner
Kirby,
As a teacher, I don't have time to argue over on python-dev what should
and should not be included in the language. And don't want to! I am
thinking of our "petition nonsense" as a data point for those people
that do take the time over on python-dev to figure out the best thing to
do ne
John Zelle wrote:
>First up, I support the "petition"/ suggestion whatever you want to call it.
>
>I'm somewhat disappointed that our discussion here seems to have gotten
>derailed by Arthur's comments that it's all about ease of teaching. I think I
>put forward a number or solid arguments abou
kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/8/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> :) Of course, I meant that it forces people to use those topics before
>> they want to.
>>
>> I assume that you don't really want to dictate to other teachers the order
>> that these items are addressed, right? Just
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Arthur
Sent: Thu 9/7/2006 6:51 PM
> import
>
> is in fact the most exciting statement we have.
>
> import OpenGL
> import Python
> import Numarray
> import some kid's bright idea from yesterday
> import CandyStore as yummies
On 9/8/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :) Of course, I meant that it forces people to use those topics before
> they want to.
>
> I assume that you don't really want to dictate to other teachers the order
> that these items are addressed, right? Just checking...
>
> -Doug
I thi
On 9/8/06, John Zelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First up, I support the "petition"/ suggestion whatever you want to call it.
>
> I'm somewhat disappointed that our discussion here seems to have gotten
> derailed by Arthur's comments that it's all about ease of teaching. I think I
> put forward a
First up, I support the "petition"/ suggestion whatever you want to call it.
I'm somewhat disappointed that our discussion here seems to have gotten
derailed by Arthur's comments that it's all about ease of teaching. I think I
put forward a number or solid arguments about IO being core to progr
> On 9/7/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > I think the professors are very wrong here.
>>
>> This isn't about "I'm right; you're wrong"; it's about making a decsion
>> that can effect the way that *others* want to use Python. Removing
>> input()
>> FORCES people to have to addre
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