Peter Chase wrote:
>Thanks, Dethe
>
How about at least starting a thread there about well something.
I promise never to post to that list.
I have no embarrassment about how I handle myself here - whether I should or
should not
But would indeed feel better if those who feel I should had
erested in
>> subscribing if it gets me away from the incresingly irritating
>> 'noise' on this one ...
>>
>>
>>
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dethe Elza
>> Sent: Mon 25/09/2006 17:25
>> To:
- Original Message -From: Dethe Elza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:45 pmSubject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one (Michel Paul)To: "Humphreys, Simon (Hills Road Staff)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: edu-sig@python.org> Ed
gt; 'noise' on this one ...
>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Dethe Elza
> Sent: Mon 25/09/2006 17:25
> To: kirby urner
> Cc: edu-sig@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one (Michel
On 9/25/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: kirby urner
> Date: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:33 pm
> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one
> To: Michel Paul
> > Speaking of which, I'm giving Tara the option to join me on a
&g
From: kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:33 pmSubject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using oneTo: Michel Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Speaking of which, I'm giving Tara the option to join me on a > trip to> New York pretty soon. She's already got something plan
On 9/25/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm less immodest than Guido, around pedagogy, because I'm a career
I meant *more* immodest, i.e. I flaunt it more, that I'm this groovy
gnu math teacher with past pirate ship experience (not hard to come by
here in Portland, yar!):
http://myb
On 9/24/06, kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As gnu math teachers, we cover all this before college, no problem,
> using Python, Ruby or whatever. Strong OO is advisable, as it's just
> natural to consider Polyhedra as Objects (with spin methods, face
> count attributes etc.), and we *def
On 9/25/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Notice, I am here.
>
> Art
>
OK, good summary of your position. Lots of grist for the mill. Thanks.
Kirby
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- Original Message -From: kirby urner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> There's also another theme woven in, which is that before my Minister> of Education stint, I was already a top dog in what's called the> Fuller School (e.g. bfi.org), a pirate ship captained by R.> Buckminster Fuller (Applewhite as
On 25-Sep-06, at 8:06 AM, kirby urner wrote:
> I think the discussion re VPython was worth having. Differing points
> of view were clearly expressed about a matter of substance.
>
> Your assessment of the signal to noise ratio suggests you're
> wearing ear muffs.
Hardly. It's an assessment th
> http://tinyurl.com/lqbhc
> http://tinyurl.com/legbp
PS:
re this 2nd URL, obtained from The Fischbeck on Synergeo, I shows how
gummint contractors are getting better at rapid deployment of
temporary/emergency shelter solutions.
I hope they're cross-training with FEMA, and not just focusing on t
On 9/25/06, Peter Chase <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is that ALL you have been fighting about these many months? My
> goodness. Well, thanks for filling me in.
>
I thought you meant just in the last few days.
No, that's not all we've been fighting about, plus Arthur and I agree
sometimes e.g.:
Is that ALL you have been fighting about these many months? My
goodness. Well, thanks for filling me in.
kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/25/06, Peter Chase <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I would be happy to raise a peep if I knew what the hell you and Kirby
>> were talking about.
>> Maybe someone in
On 9/25/06, Dan Crosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> kirby urner wrote:
> > Excellent suggestion. Maybe come back if you have a good idea for a change.
>
> I've got a better idea -- why don't you both start a new list, maybe
> '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', where you guys can have your
> little show-off comp
kirby urner wrote:
> Excellent suggestion. Maybe come back if you have a good idea for a change.
I've got a better idea -- why don't you both start a new list, maybe
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]', where you guys can have your
little show-off competition, and leave edu-sig for conversation about
eudcatio
On 9/25/06, Peter Chase <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would be happy to raise a peep if I knew what the hell you and Kirby
> were talking about.
> Maybe someone in this group could explain it to a Bear of Very Little
> Brain, like me.
> In simple terms. Without using abstractions any more than st
On 9/25/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since it is clear to you that you are not among peers here, why not find
> somewhere to present your visions somewhere where you might be.
>
When did I say that? You're the one who thinks Alan Kay is a shmuck
(sp?) and is somehow beating MIT or w
I would be happy to raise a peep if I knew what the hell you and Kirby
were talking about.
Maybe someone in this group could explain it to a Bear of Very Little
Brain, like me.
In simple terms. Without using abstractions any more than strictly
necessary.
Arthur wrote:
> kirby urner wrote:
>
kirby urner wrote:
> I'm amazed at the intellectual squalor my fellow citizens have
> acclimated themselves to.
And I am more amazed at you, and who you think you are.
Since it is clear to you that you are not among peers here, why not find
somewhere to present your visions somewhere where yo
On 9/24/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> kirby urner wrote:
>
> > One thing it's good for is showing off Beyond Flatland's Renaissance
> > Era perspective, i.e. XYZ instead of just XY. People are gaga for
> > "graphing calculators" but can't even get off the XY plane with their
> > sorry me
On 9/24/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmmm.
>
> But there is no such thing as gnu math, so how can there be gnu math
> teachers?
>
> Who do you think you are leading?
>
> Art
I'm a gnu math teacher and teach gnu math here in Portland, as adjunct
faculty with PSU, though that may not las
kirby urner wrote:
>As gnu math teachers, we cover all this before college, no problem,
>using Python, Ruby or whatever. Strong OO is advisable, as it's just
>natural to consider Polyhedra as Objects (with spin methods, face
>count attributes etc.), and we *definitely* want lots of those.
>
>
>
kirby urner wrote:
> One thing it's good for is showing off Beyond Flatland's Renaissance
> Era perspective, i.e. XYZ instead of just XY. People are gaga for
> "graphing calculators" but can't even get off the XY plane with their
> sorry methods. No Polyhedra, no Physical Realism. VPython is go
> If N happens to be prime, then you get a Galois Field, i.e. you can
> bring __add__ into it, provided you now also have 0 (still excluded as
> a divisor).
>
> >>> class Modint(object):
> modulus = 20
> def __init__(self, v):
> self.v = v % Modint.modulus
>
> You do better at insulting me when you are not particularly trying then
> when you are.
>
OK, I'm not going to dissuade you from trying to jam VPython into the
Standard Library. As I've made clear: I think that's a stupid
strategy, a waste of time, and not essential to the future promise of
VP
kirby urner wrote:
> On 9/24/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In sum, whereas I think Pygeo has many distribution options, I think
> trying to bloat the default installer with Vpython is *not* the most
> efficacious route to that end.
You do better at insulting me when you are not partic
Jason Cunliffe wrote:
>Well if you are looking for a good business decision then *please*
>specify and work to compile an uber-useful LiveCD Edu-Sig distro with
>all the math-edu-geo goodies...
>
>
Jason, what edu-sig have you been visiting???
Do you see a group of people here capable of coop
On 9/24/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In both our battles - yours against the TI calculator, and mine against
> the 3d Ninja Turtles - VPython-like functionality is essential. It
> demostrates to your Problems that we are working with something with
> out-of-the-box more power than what
> I think there should be more number theory in the math curriculum, and we
> could
> provide that beautifully with something like Python.
>
> But I will remain alert to site-specific issues that the use of Python could
> address.
>
> - Michel
On the number theoretic front, once kids get it abo
al Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Michel Paul
Sent: Sun 09/24/06 09:47 AM
To: Radenski, Atanas; edu-sig@python.org
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one
Yes, thank you. I have been reflecting on this, and so far I haven't been able
to pin down a site s
Our
syntax of operators and operands arises later.
Or, that's just how I'm able to make sense of things for myself.
- Michel
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Daniel Ajoy
Sent: Sat 09/23/06 12:50 PM
To: edu-sig@python.org
Subject: Spam: Re: [Edu-sig] cr
> Making both those statements by the inclusion of vpython-like
> functionality in the standard distribution is to me a business decision,
> and a good one.
>
Well if you are looking for a good business decision then *please*
specify and work to compile an uber-useful LiveCD Edu-Sig distro
e-specific issues that the use of Python could
address.
- Michel
-Original Message-
From: Radenski, Atanas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat 09/23/06 08:10 AM
To: Michel Paul; edu-sig@python.org
Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on beha
kirby urner wrote:
> What I don't get is this mystical fascination some people have with
> the Standard Library. It becomes some kind of Quest to get one's
> little module blessed by Guido and inducted into this particular
> python.org motherlode (have some pity on 56Kers will ya?).
>
Not totally
On 9/23/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I had a leadership role in the Python community I would be attempting
> to direct energies toward overcoming the(very real) issues related to
> making something very much like VPython part of the standard distribution.
So you're saying not VPytho
> Down to the moronic sewer with them all??
>
> Art
You're back to your cleverisms. I'll leave ya to 'em.
Kirby
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kirby urner wrote:
> Historically, the use of the word "squared" in this context contains a
> whiff of a moronic past, when the orthonormalists monopolized world
> affairs.
Dante reserved the first circle of Hell—Limbo—for the virtuous Pagan,
the poets who were born and died before the Coming.
Andy Judkis wrote:
> In my humble opinion, there would have to be a "Math teacher"
> distribution of Python that has this stuff built in before most
> teachers would even consider trying it. Is there such a thing already?
If I had a leadership role in the Python community I would be attempting
kirby urner wrote:
>But per my http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/oopalgebra.html with
>embedded rotated by quaternions XYZ cube (yes, wrote it myself --
>better programmer than Arthur, duh), that's going to change.
>
>
Deconstructing Kirby is best left to Kirby, I guess.
Art
> The OO point of view is *nothing like* the mathematical point
> of view.
>
The OO point of view is just another mathematics. This idea that
there is *one* mathematical point of view is just a holdover from the
way you were taught in school i.e. by authoritarians with something to
prove.
> In m
kirby urner wrote:
> Historically, the use of the word "squared" in this context contains a
> whiff of a moronic past, when the orthonormalists monopolized world
> affairs. Fortunately those days are long over (and yes, we still say
> "squared" when referring to 2nd powering, in the interests of
Daniel Ajoy wrote:
>In math, operators and numbers are two different things and the
>former don't "belong" to later.
>
>
To make Kirby's point, I guess it depends on how one defines "in math".
"Math is" cannot reasonably be defined to exclude how math is, in many
cases, practiced. And math *i
On 23 Sep 2006 at 12:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You CANNOT articulate OO on a TI. You can?t create a class. Most people
> don?t care, right now, because they don?t even know what that means, but I
> can guarantee you that there?s a bunch of scientists at places like
> CalTech who DO care! M
umm...
I have 'thin' and out-of date background in Math.
I am however curious about contexts in which one finds:
Pi cubed, Pi to the 4 th Pi to the N etc..
Suggestions examples googlinks welcome.
Thanks
Jason
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On 9/23/06, Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> We might all take the opportunity to pontificate with respect to our own
> particular visions, down to every detail.
>
Yes, no shortage of disk space, even with the new Google facility in
The Dalles not completely operational yet.
> Mine is one
kirby urner wrote:
>On 9/23/06, Michel Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>he only syntax required other than Algebra is "def" and "return".
>>
>>
>
>Here I'd part company a bit and point out that "algebra" is not so
>nailed down as a namespace that we can't consider "def" and "return"
>exclud
> Here I'd part company a bit and point out that "algebra" is not so
> nailed down as a namespace that we can't consider "def" and "return"
> excluded.
>
Got ensnared in my own double-negative, but I think you get my point:
just look at J (don't show your chairperson though, too scary) -- a
math n
On 9/23/06, Michel Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The only syntax required other than Algebra is "def" and "return".
>
Here I'd part company a bit and point out that "algebra" is not so
nailed down as a namespace that we can't consider "def" and "return"
excluded.
As we phase in machine execu
On 9/23/06, Michel Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know Kirby has done stuff with ray tracing - but I still have to learn
> about that. The
> kinds of things you CAN graph with Python are amazing, 3-d and so on, but it
> requires
> a bit of effort.
My most recent module along these lines u
Arthur wrote:
>Andy Judkis wrote:
>
>
>
>>Let me reveal my ignorance (there's a lot of it!) and ask if Python has a
>>way to plot a function that's as easy as on the TI. Without that I think
>>it's going to be a very tough sale, unfortunately.
>>
>>
>>
>
>There are many ways to do that in
On 9/23/06, Michel Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Let me ... ask if Python has a way to plot a function
> >that's as easy as on the TI. Without that I think
> >it's going to be a very tough sale, unfortunately.
>
> Yeah, that's the main wall I run into. If there was an EASY way - something
al Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Andy Judkis
Sent: Sat 09/23/06 04:20 AM
To: edu-sig@python.org
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] creating an interface vs. using one (Michel Paul)
My daughter is a senior, taking AB Calc and struggling with it somewhat.
I'm becoming alarmed as I real
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Michel Paul
> Also - our school is building a new math/science/technology center. I see
> Python as an excellent kind of thing to get
> people to explore. I attended the SciPy conference at CalTech in August,
> just to see what kind of things were going on,
Andy Judkis wrote:
>Let me reveal my ignorance (there's a lot of it!) and ask if Python has a
>way to plot a function that's as easy as on the TI. Without that I think
>it's going to be a very tough sale, unfortunately.
>
There are many ways to do that in Python, i.e. a good number of
availab
Michel Paul wrote:
>
>Language transcends device, because a language can create a device. Devices
>don’t create language. What a language is is deeper than what a gadget is.
>With just a slight bit of tweaking, the language of Algebra can become a
>computational language! That’s really cool
My daughter is a senior, taking AB Calc and struggling with it somewhat.
I'm becoming alarmed as I realize how little mathematical intuition she has
developed. She used to be good at it, but now she really needs the
calculator to tell her how numbers and functions behave. Very frustrating
to
A couple of days ago I attempted to describe to my math dept chair the elegant
way you can zip two lists in Python to create a set of ordered pairs. Her
response was dismissive, saying you can do the same thing on a TI using lists.
Her point was that we were each doing the same thing in a diff
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