Re: [edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

[Giulio Gratta]

Sure Doug, you may use theming for certain projects, but not for edX.org
and edge.edx.org.

Here are a few big issues with Comprehensive theming I came up with off the
top of my head (other Open edX people, Stanford affiliated or not, can
comment and add anything I may have missed):

- The Open edX community was not really consulted in a timely fashion on
comprehensive theming (basically we were shown the code shortly before it
merged and comments were ignored for expediency's sake).
- Comprehensive theming currently doesn't allow for graceful inheritance
from platform templates Stanford is still running our "Stanford Theming".
- Because we need to do things with the edX platform for which
comprehensive theming (from text changes, to injecting HTML, to complete
restructuring of templates) doesn't allow without replacing full files,
we've had to fork multiple parts of edx-platform. This means *every* time
we merge from edX, we have dozens (sometimes hundreds) of conflicts which
makes it *much* harder to track the release branch as closely as we would
like.
- Color/variable definitions in SASS (as they are used in the rest of the
SASS) ebb and flow without end, which makes most themers have to
continuously edit color/variable definitions in their files.
- There doesn't seem to be any reasonable effort to make the LMS responsive
without having to resort to the mobile app, which is unsustainable for
teams with only a handful of engineers.

If edX were running its own private repo theme on edX.org and "dog-fooding"
the theming solution, it not only would bring these open source issues to
fore, but would also allow you guys at edX to protect your trademarks,
language, and colors.

*Giulio Gratta* 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
B.S. Engineering (Product Design)
Stanford University, Class of 2010

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 12:46 PM,  wrote:

> Hi Giulio,
>
> We do in fact make use of a private theme repo here at edX for certain
> projects. Can you expand upon the "pain themers have to go through"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Doug
>
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:40:08 PM UTC-4, Giulio Gratta wrote:
>>
>> I think the most important thing you guys at edX can and should do is
>> move to your own externally managed (private repo) theme.
>>
>> This will both reduce the likely-hood of other sites/instances using your
>> color scheme/trademarks, and also make sure you understand the pain themers
>> have to go through.
>>
>> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, Shauna Gordon-McKeon
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of
>>> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in
>>> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each
>>> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the
>>> underlying issues - together.
>>>
>>> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming
>>> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d
>>> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve
>>> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about
>>> theming, please fill it out!
>>>
>>> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working
>>> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course,
>>> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and
>>> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about
>>> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll
>>> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for
>>> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX
>>> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If
>>> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check
>>> out the discussion here: https://docs.google.com/docume
>>> nt/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>>>
>>> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Shauna
>>>
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Re: [edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

[Shauna Gordon-McKeon]

To follow up on Doug's question --

I know that many of you have shared your issues re: theming several times,
and I'm sorry that you're being asked to repeat yourselves.  If you'd like
to update this wiki page (https://openedx.atlassian.net/
wiki/display/FEDX/Challenges+with+comprehensive+theming+in+Eucalyptus) to
include more information about some of the problems you've faced, that's a
good way to make an easily accessible record that the community and the
working group can reference moving forward.

I will also be sharing the results of our survey next week, which will have
more details about pain points for themers.  If folks don't want to wait,
email me off-list and I can send you the current results, minus anything
that has been marked confidential.

best
Shauna


On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 3:46 PM,  wrote:

> Hi Giulio,
>
> We do in fact make use of a private theme repo here at edX for certain
> projects. Can you expand upon the "pain themers have to go through"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Doug
>
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:40:08 PM UTC-4, Giulio Gratta wrote:
>>
>> I think the most important thing you guys at edX can and should do is
>> move to your own externally managed (private repo) theme.
>>
>> This will both reduce the likely-hood of other sites/instances using your
>> color scheme/trademarks, and also make sure you understand the pain themers
>> have to go through.
>>
>> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, Shauna Gordon-McKeon
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of
>>> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in
>>> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each
>>> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the
>>> underlying issues - together.
>>>
>>> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming
>>> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d
>>> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve
>>> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about
>>> theming, please fill it out!
>>>
>>> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working
>>> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course,
>>> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and
>>> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about
>>> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll
>>> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for
>>> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX
>>> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If
>>> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check
>>> out the discussion here: https://docs.google.com/docume
>>> nt/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>>>
>>> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Shauna
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
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[edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

[dhall]

Hi Giulio,

We do in fact make use of a private theme repo here at edX for certain 
projects. Can you expand upon the "pain themers have to go through"?

Thanks,

- Doug

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:40:08 PM UTC-4, Giulio Gratta wrote:
>
> I think the most important thing you guys at edX can and should do is move 
> to your own externally managed (private repo) theme.
>
> This will both reduce the likely-hood of other sites/instances using your 
> color scheme/trademarks, and also make sure you understand the pain themers 
> have to go through.
>
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, Shauna Gordon-McKeon 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of 
>> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in 
>> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each 
>> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the 
>> underlying issues - together.
>>
>> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming 
>> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d 
>> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve 
>> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about 
>> theming, please fill it out!
>>
>> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working 
>> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course, 
>> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and 
>> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about 
>> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll 
>> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for 
>> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX 
>> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If 
>> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check 
>> out the discussion here: 
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>>
>> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Shauna 
>>
>

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[edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

['Mike Bifulco' via General Open edX discussion]

Giulio is absolutely spot on.  I continue to be shocked by the apparent 
absence of anyone at edX who has ever used theming... and I'm thankful for 
a community that's willing to help one-another through figuring out how it 
works.

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 5:40:08 PM UTC-4, Giulio Gratta wrote:
>
> I think the most important thing you guys at edX can and should do is move 
> to your own externally managed (private repo) theme.
>
> This will both reduce the likely-hood of other sites/instances using your 
> color scheme/trademarks, and also make sure you understand the pain themers 
> have to go through.
>
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, Shauna Gordon-McKeon 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of 
>> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in 
>> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each 
>> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the 
>> underlying issues - together.
>>
>> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming 
>> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d 
>> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve 
>> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about 
>> theming, please fill it out!
>>
>> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working 
>> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course, 
>> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and 
>> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about 
>> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll 
>> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for 
>> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX 
>> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If 
>> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check 
>> out the discussion here: 
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>>
>> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Shauna 
>>
>

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[edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

[Giulio Gratta]

I think the most important thing you guys at edX can and should do is move 
to your own externally managed (private repo) theme.

This will both reduce the likely-hood of other sites/instances using your 
color scheme/trademarks, and also make sure you understand the pain themers 
have to go through.

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, Shauna Gordon-McKeon wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of 
> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in 
> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each 
> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the 
> underlying issues - together.
>
> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming 
> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d 
> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve 
> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about 
> theming, please fill it out!
>
> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working 
> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course, 
> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and 
> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about 
> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll 
> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for 
> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX 
> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If 
> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check 
> out the discussion here: 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>
> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>
> Best
>
> Shauna 
>

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Re: [edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

[Shauna Gordon-McKeon]

Yes, I can!  Thanks for catching that.

The link is this one:
https://openedx.atlassian.net/wiki/display/FEDX/Challenges+with+comprehensive+theming+in+Eucalyptus

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Stuart O'Day  wrote:

> Hi Shauna,
>
>Can you provide the link to "(summarized here)"?
>
> Thanks,
> Stuart
>
>
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 12:36:57 PM UTC-4, Shauna Gordon-McKeon
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of
>> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in
>> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each
>> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the
>> underlying issues - together.
>>
>> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming
>> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d
>> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve
>> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about
>> theming, please fill it out!
>>
>> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working
>> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course,
>> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and
>> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about
>> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll
>> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for
>> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX
>> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If
>> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check
>> out the discussion here: https://docs.google.com/docume
>> nt/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>>
>> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Shauna
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[edx-code] Re: Improving theming in Open edX

[Stuart O'Day]

Hi Shauna,

   Can you provide the link to "(summarized here)"?

Thanks,
Stuart


On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 12:36:57 PM UTC-4, Shauna Gordon-McKeon 
wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> In the couple of months since I’ve joined edX, I’ve heard a lot of 
> discussion in the community about theming.  Given the level of interest in 
> and trouble with theming, we’ve decided to go beyond dealing with each 
> problem on a case by case basis, and see if we can address some of the 
> underlying issues - together.
>
> We have a pretty solid understanding of the main issues with theming 
> (summarized here) and a decent sense of what’s important to you, but we’d 
> like to get a more systematic sense of your priorities.  To that end, we’ve 
> created a survey: http://bit.ly/2dZwVmP.  If you care at all about 
> theming, please fill it out!
>
> If the survey indicates enough interest, we’re going to launch a working 
> group to tackle these problems within the next couple of weeks.  Of course, 
> “launching a working group” is something we’re also trying to clarify and 
> redefine, so I understand if some of you feel a little in the dark about 
> what the next steps actually will be.  The very short version is “we’ll 
> work with the community to improve our design and implementation plans for 
> to reflect your needs and priorities, and then some combination of edX 
> teams and Open edX community members will implement those changes”.  If 
> you’re interested in helping define how working groups work, please check 
> out the discussion here: 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B3zTtL4g1F9a98DGCAIoRHZc50K26sroLgjPf7lRICo
>
> As always, please feel free to ask questions, give feedback, etc.
>
> Best
>
> Shauna 
>

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