Re: [Elecraft] [K2] KPA100 problem
Hi Jerry, I did not try to isolate as the track went straight to the max chip pin 8, I just removed the chip. C38 was the cap that was cracked, so instead of 10nF it was a few 100 pF!!! Or less. I bought my KP100 some 3 years ago, and since then it has undergone a lot of improvement from Elecraft, if yours is less than a year old then you will have the latest revision. There are changes to the TR and switching and bias circuits. I had around 150V to 200V at times, if pin 8 is low, then check the components to the right of C37. The high voltage supply is only bias and supplies very low current. Check Q6 as if this has a very small leak, it will drag the bias voltage down and check D11 to 14. Q6 has failed a few times in my rig prior to the modifications, however, this was due to me leaving the aerial connected when high winds and storms were about. 73's Andrew Don Wilhelm-4 wrote: Jerry, That answer depends on which set of specifications you want to believe. I am saying that the Absolute Maximum Specification for the Maxim MAX1406 for Vss (pin 8) is -14 volts - you can check the data sheet for yourself. Yes, many KPA100s exceed that value - note that the KPA100 DC voltage chart lists the nominal voltage at U4 pin 8 at -22 volts. Whether that is a cause for failure of the chip is reason for speculation, there is not enough data to say yeah or nay. . What I have offered is a way to reduce the Vss voltage to the MAX1406 without also reducing the bias voltage to the KPA100 T/R switch. That involves removing D8, and D8 alone. The data sheet Electrical Characteristics current for pin 8 (Iss) is typical 185 uA with a maximum of 500 uA. for a Vss of -13.2 volts Minimum to -10.8 Maximum - that is not a lot of current draw on that pin. I am stating that a Vss (U4 pin 8) voltage less than -14 volts exceeds the Absolute Maximum Voltage rating per the MAX1406 datasheet - nothing more and nothing less. 73, Don W3FPR n0jrn wrote: Don: Just to clarify ! The -28V's I'm seeing at pin 8 of U4 is measured without the IC installed. Lets say for the sake of conversation that I install a good MAX1406 and it draws on the rectifier circuit a minimal amount. Would / could that bring the -28V's back into specs for this chip???. ( I have to figure Wayne designed the circuit taking this draw into consideration ) OR is my -28V's so abnormal that I need to be looking at other issues in my rectifier pack to bring this negative voltage back into spec ??? Could the negative voltage I'm getting be responsible for damaging this chip ??? I have 2 new chips coming from Mouser. I'm not installing them until I'm satisfied that I've checked and double checked EVERYTHING involved. Thanks again and happy holidays to the group: 72 Jerry N0JRN - Original Message - From: Don Wilhelm d...@w3fpr.com To: n0jrn n0...@mchsi.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA100 problem Jerry, I will take back what I said about U4 - it is faulty. That negative voltage is there only to allow the RS-232 drivers to produce a negative level, the current draw should be minimal. The only thing U4 does is convert RS-232 levels to TTL levels and vice-versa. Actually -28 volts is a bit much and does exceed the maximum speced voltage for the chip. -12 volts is more than sufficient and even -5 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.716 / Virus Database: 270.14.107/2564 - Release Date: 12/14/09 02:37:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/KPA100-problem-tp4161606p4168863.html Sent from the [K2] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Searching Nabble
Been trying to search Nabble K3 to find messages I recall on tapping off the IF output without having the KXV3. Trouble is the Nabble search engine seems to ignore 'IF' and I get thousands of messages on 'output' etc. I know these engines are usually set up to ignore conjunctions like 'and' and 'if' etc but Nabble ignores them even if they're included in quotation marks as a literal phrase. I've sent a message to Nabble support but wondered if anyone here can help?? 73, Stewart Rolfe, GW0ETF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Searching Nabble
I Googled 'K3 sub receiver if output'. The original thread was in the LP-PAN Yahoo group, details in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP-PAN/message/2328 but also included in http://www.mail-archive.com/elecraft@mailman.qth.net/msg85450.html which might be searchable in Nabble under 'Fwd: Re: 2nd Receiver IF Out and Panadapter' 73, Pete G4PLZ/F5VNBK3 Stewart Rolfe wrote: Been trying to search Nabble K3 to find messages I recall on tapping off the IF output without having the KXV3. Trouble is the Nabble search engine seems to ignore 'IF' and I get thousands of messages on 'output' etc. I know these engines are usually set up to ignore conjunctions like 'and' and 'if' etc but Nabble ignores them even if they're included in quotation marks as a literal phrase. I've sent a message to Nabble support but wondered if anyone here can help?? 73, Stewart Rolfe, GW0ETF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] IF-out from sub-rcvr?
Hi Kenneth. Congratulations on the impending arrival of your K3. The KXV3 (or, in your case 3A, as this is a new order) does NOT have the connections available to output an IF signal from the subreceiver (as far as I know). However, some users have modified the KRX3 by adding a small buffer amp inside, and routing this signal out to a user-supplied rear panel jack for just this purpose. So, It CAN be done, but it is an exercise left to the user (at this time). 73, Bruce N1RX K3 s/n 559 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - 100 vs 200 watts
Gentlemen, I am happy with the K3 in its present configuration that is either a 10W or 100W output transmitter. I only run a fraction of the output when using my Acom 1000 amplifier. The radio is very lightly loaded. A 200W K3 would be bigger and require a larger power supply and would be of no interest to me at all unless this was all that was on offer. Keep the K3 price down and let people source their amplifiers separately. I suspect this is the better philosophy if one wants the export market. The K3 has the best RX, can drive any amplifier and it sells at a competitive price. Now if we are talking external amplifiers well that is different. Boy is there a lot of competition out there. With respect I doubt many people will purchase 250 Watt amplifiers. A good kit for 800 Watts and another for 1600 Watts might be a seller. No one does a kit amplifier these days as far as I know. Please ignore or forgive me if my thoughts differ with yours. I am only an old dinosaur. One thing for sure I would not want Elecrafter to hurt itself with a product which does not sell. We are a fortunate group with such a fine radio and company service. Happy Christmas and New Year. 73 Doug EI2CN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Anyone using combination of K3, SDR-IQ and CW Skimmer?
Hi Barry found your message on Nabble and was wondering if this created any response so far. We're trying to achieve the exyct same thing at our club/contest station HB9CA. Thanks vy 73, Stephan, HB9DDO / WS9O __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 100w vs 200w
what is wrong with customers requesting a new product such as a 200w PA that can be matched up to their existing K3? 1- It will make the radio to weight more,it won't be light anymore. 2-it will make the radio more expensive,a 200W PA will cost at least $300 to $400 more 3-We will need them at least 35 to 40A power supply to feed it,they cost around $300.Right now we can move the K3 with a small light 20A switching PS anywhere.When we needed that big PS the package will become bigger and heavier. 4-Wy to spend that much when simply we can use our actual amps or get afordable ones for $300 or less? It don't make sense to me at all. AD4C For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3 --- On Tue, 12/15/09, rfenab...@gmail.com rfenab...@gmail.com wrote: From: rfenab...@gmail.com rfenab...@gmail.com Subject: [Elecraft] K3 100w vs 200w To: Elecraft Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 5:15 AM Any amp will sell...period. Mobile use of an amp needs to strike a balance between watts and amps in each different setup. I think most agree the Elecraft amps (plenty of customers waiting) will be good. If Kenwood have a good sales volume on their 200w mobile, why not have a manufacturer release some competition? In my case, mobile with 200w creates NO power supply issues (TS-480HX) and I would much rather have a purpose built Elecraft PA that would produce 200W. So why not? Not all K3 users want, or are legally able to use, more than 400W, so, what is wrong with customers requesting a new product such as a 200w PA that can be matched up to their existing K3? Gary Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] 150 watt boots for 160m
Guy, K2AV wrote: If one wants to dig up the research... http://www.audioholics.com/education/acoustics-principles/human-hearing-amplitude-sensitivity-part-1 Speaking now in terms of dB SPL, the minimum discernable changes by the human ear/brain mechanism I've seen in the research that I've reviewed ranged from about 0.5 dB to 3 dB, depending on a number of factors. Table 1 (see the referenced link above or below) In Table 1 we see a collection of studies spanning 60 years. It should be kept in mind that in each case the results were obtained under laboratory-ideal conditions. Even so, we see a range of values from .25 dB to 3 dB. The resultant range is owing to varying methodologies used by the researchers and, of course, the response of the human hearing apparatus to the applied acoustic signals. SNIP From the third column of Table 1, we see the minimum detectable value, for the most part, hovers around 1 dB, +/- a fraction of a dB, and that attainable only with ideal (or at least as ideal as technology allowed for at the time the study was done) laboratory test conditions and test subjects. I tend to use .75 dB to 1 dB when considering minimums. http://www.audioholics.com/education/acoustics-principles/human-hearing-amplitude-sensitivity-part-1 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/150-watt-boots-for-160m-tp4151943p4170175.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] Desk top K3
Agree! separate K3 and amplifier. But I could like to start another dream: let us have the normal K3 in a much bigger box with a lot more of knobs (and may bee a color display) for us with a big desk top and big hands. Vy 73 OZ1CCM Kjeld -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug Turnbull Sent: 15. december 2009 14:31 To: 'Jim Miller KG0KP'; 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - 100 vs 200 watts Gentlemen, I am happy with the K3 in its present configuration that is either a 10W or 100W output transmitter. I only run a fraction of the output when using my Acom 1000 amplifier. The radio is very lightly loaded. A 200W K3 would be bigger and require a larger power supply and would be of no interest to me at all unless this was all that was on offer. Keep the K3 price down and let people source their amplifiers separately. I suspect this is the better philosophy if one wants the export market. The K3 has the best RX, can drive any amplifier and it sells at a competitive price. Now if we are talking external amplifiers well that is different. Boy is there a lot of competition out there. With respect I doubt many people will purchase 250 Watt amplifiers. A good kit for 800 Watts and another for 1600 Watts might be a seller. No one does a kit amplifier these days as far as I know. Please ignore or forgive me if my thoughts differ with yours. I am only an old dinosaur. One thing for sure I would not want Elecrafter to hurt itself with a product which does not sell. We are a fortunate group with such a fine radio and company service. Happy Christmas and New Year. 73 Doug EI2CN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Desk top K3
I´m with you Kjeld!... Will be great a big K3 for fixed operation at home!... 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W -Mensaje original- De: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] En nombre de Kjeld Holm Enviado el: Martes, 15 de Diciembre de 2009 12:47 p.m. Para: 'Elecraft Reflector' Asunto: [Elecraft] [K3] Desk top K3 Agree! separate K3 and amplifier. But I could like to start another dream: let us have the normal K3 in a much bigger box with a lot more of knobs (and may bee a color display) for us with a big desk top and big hands. Vy 73 OZ1CCM Kjeld -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug Turnbull Sent: 15. december 2009 14:31 To: 'Jim Miller KG0KP'; 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - 100 vs 200 watts Gentlemen, I am happy with the K3 in its present configuration that is either a 10W or 100W output transmitter. I only run a fraction of the output when using my Acom 1000 amplifier. The radio is very lightly loaded. A 200W K3 would be bigger and require a larger power supply and would be of no interest to me at all unless this was all that was on offer. Keep the K3 price down and let people source their amplifiers separately. I suspect this is the better philosophy if one wants the export market. The K3 has the best RX, can drive any amplifier and it sells at a competitive price. Now if we are talking external amplifiers well that is different. Boy is there a lot of competition out there. With respect I doubt many people will purchase 250 Watt amplifiers. A good kit for 800 Watts and another for 1600 Watts might be a seller. No one does a kit amplifier these days as far as I know. Please ignore or forgive me if my thoughts differ with yours. I am only an old dinosaur. One thing for sure I would not want Elecrafter to hurt itself with a product which does not sell. We are a fortunate group with such a fine radio and company service. Happy Christmas and New Year. 73 Doug EI2CN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.104/2560 - Release Date: 12/15/09 07:52:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] FS K3 500 Hz Roofing Filter
In preparation for ordering a KRX3, I've reconfigured my roofing filters somewhat. The net is that I now have available for sale a 5 pole 500 Hz roofing filter. This is in fine condition after 18 months of faithful service in my K3. The offset is -0.76. I'd like to find a new home for it. Price is $75 to my PayPal account including delivery to your door in the USA via USPS 1st class mail. Please contact me directly via Email if interested. Thanks and 73 Craig AC0DS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KPA100 another issue
Well, doesn't seem to my weekend. :-) While checking the output of the KPA100 ( during test and alignment ) completed the bias adjustment and began the transmit test. Connected to my 100 watt dummy load with short jumpers. Watt meter in line and checking the output compared to the meter. Started on 40 meters and at 20watts all was good. Moved the power up and noted the amp kicked out around 35 watts. Started checking other bands at 20 watts and found that on 15 meters, my current draw went way up and my supplied voltage went way down.up and my supplied voltage went way down. Using an Astron VS35M supply. Wondered if my hook up to the dummy load had an issue so hooked up to a resonant antenna on 40 and found the amp is still kicking out around 35 watts. Figured I must have missed a solder joint or something in the low pass filter for 15 meters and that must be affecting the other bands. Broke it all down and check the amp board / low pass filters and all look good. All the right components in place and the right number of turns on the roids. Solder joint appear good and pass continuity tests. No missed solders. Now I'm stumped again So, why would one band that shares caps and toroids with two other bands draw things down so bad. I've set my power supply at 14 volts and the display on the K2 is showing 13.8 volts. I did get high reflected warnings 17 meters when testing with more than 15 watts but I'm puzzled as to how this issue results in the amp kicking out on all other bands. ( K2's display indicating 1.0-1 when tuning into the dummy load. Any ideas gang Think I'll pull the caps and see if one of them is opened. Is there a good method of checking K9 and K10 Again, thanks for any help: 72Jerry N0JRN ( BTW, my ISP is also acting up and it's taking several hours for my posts to show up on the reflector ) Back to 40 meters and tried to __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KXAT1 booklet available
Just doing some cleanup and came across a KXAT1 manual. I have never had one... don't know where it came from. But if you could use it, I will send it to you. -- 73 AllanK7GT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:32:42 -0800 (PST), Bill W4ZV wrote: http://www.audioholics.com/education/acoustics-principles/human-hearing- amplitude-sensitivity-part-1 In Table 1 we see a collection of studies spanning 60 years. It should be kept in mind that in each case the results were obtained under laboratory-ideal conditions. Even so, we see a range of values from .25 dB to 3 dB. The resultant range is owing to varying methodologies used by the researchers and, of course, the response of the human hearing apparatus to the applied acoustic signals. I posted the following before, but somehow it appears to have been missed. The quotations above, and ALL of the discussions about what's perceptible and what isn't are talking about the LOUDNESS of a sound. Note the title in the link -- amplitude sensitivity. That is VERY DIFFERENT from radio communications, where we are mostly concerned with SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIOS and INTELLIGIBILITY. There's nothing WRONG about the tutorial that Bill has posted, but it applies to a different problem. The first time I had this point driven home to me was around 1974, when I was balancing levels for an acoustic paging and background music system in a multi-story federal office building in downtown Chicago. In rooms where the background music was held just above the noise level, paging was significantly hotter. Changes in level of only a dB were quite obvious on the background music, and either right or wrong BECAUSE they were in reference to the background noise level! But that same dB change was hardly noticable on the paging, because the paging was at a higher level relative to the noise. When we make our transmit signal a few dB stronger with an amplifier or a better antenna, or when we add audio processing (compression, peak limiting), or when we run those multiple Beverages that Bill has talked about, or when we narrow up the RX bandwidth to pull out a weak signal, we are working on the signal to noise ratio, NOT LOUDNESS. It's apples and oranges! The only thing in common is that we're using a log ratio to describe it. 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 - PowerSDR-IF communication issue?
Hope someone can help. Downloaded PSDR-IF 1.19.02 last night to use with my K3 and my Softrock on the IF with a Clifton Labs buffer. No problem with using the panadapter centered on the IF. But when I selected the K3 IF setting in PSDR and hooked up the serial cable I expected to be able to do some K3 control via PSDR and that does not happen. The serial cable works fine with the K3 Utility. I'm guessing I have made a dumb error some where. Correct Com port (1) and only serial cable hooked to computer when I was trying it. Ideas? From PSDR-IF documentation it sounded like once the IF/K3 option was selected it should have been close to plug and play. My serial cable is 2 conductor and ground. Again works fine with K3 Utility and I have Upgraded FirmWare etc with no issues. Thanks .. Bill K0AWU EN37ed K3# 3460 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - PowerSDR-IF communication issue?
Hi Bill, Try over here: http://code.google.com/p/powersdr-if-stage/ 73! Lee WW2DX On Dec 15, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Bill Davis Jr wrote: Hope someone can help. Downloaded PSDR-IF 1.19.02 last night to use with my K3 and my Softrock on the IF with a Clifton Labs buffer. No problem with using the panadapter centered on the IF. But when I selected the K3 IF setting in PSDR and hooked up the serial cable I expected to be able to do some K3 control via PSDR and that does not happen. The serial cable works fine with the K3 Utility. I'm guessing I have made a dumb error some where. Correct Com port (1) and only serial cable hooked to computer when I was trying it. Ideas? From PSDR-IF documentation it sounded like once the IF/K3 option was selected it should have been close to plug and play. My serial cable is 2 conductor and ground. Again works fine with K3 Utility and I have Upgraded FirmWare etc with no issues. Thanks .. Bill K0AWU EN37ed K3# 3460 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: Online K3 Demo
I have been wanting to do some K3 101 videos for youtube showing many aspects of the rig in action. As soon as I have a few minutes to breath I will produce a couple ;) You have me thinking a bit on the remote K3 idea. h... 73, Lee WW2DX On Dec 14, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Larry - K2GN wrote: I'm with Dave on this one. Particularly something for those of us that are technically challenged. Really would like to see the P3 and CWSkimmer in action!!! Bring it on. de K2GN/Larry K3 - S/N 3278 that would really let someone experience the advantages of diversity receive, for example, or one showing a sneak preview of the P3 panadapter. Stuff aimed not just at prospective K3 buyers but also at people who already own the K3 but still have cash left over. ;-) 73, WW2PT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
On Dec 15, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Jim Brown wrote: ...we are working on the signal to noise ratio, NOT LOUDNESS. It's apples and oranges! The only thing in common is that we're using a log ratio to describe it. I couldn't agree more with Jim on this one. In our business, we are trying to get information across, instead of determining if one signal is louder than another. This is demonstrated especially well with digital modes, where we can measure with objective detectors instead of using the subjective gray matter between our ears. Take a look at this example for DominoEX 8: http://homepage.mac.com/chen/Technical/DominoEX/AWGN/AWGN/dominoex8.html The vertical axis is the percentage character error rate. Notice that for the primary DominoEX channel, a single dB of signal-to-noise ratio change, from a SNR of -13 dB to a SNR of -14 dB, moves the percentage character error from about 0.2% to almost 2%, a factor of almost 10 of errors. (In case you wonder how deep the signal is within noise and yet be copied reliably, it is really not. The noise in the above plot is measured within a 3 kHz bandwidth. In a 500 Hz noise bandwidth for example, the -13 dB SNR would correspond to about -5 dB SNR; albeit, still not too shabby. This is why you often see the SNR expressed as Eb/No in technical circles, but hams like to use SNR within 3 kHz noise bandwidth.) Steep sensitivity curves like this is very typical for digital mode demodulators. The curves do flatten out when you add multipath and Rayleigh fading. It can be seen in the example here: http://homepage.mac.com/chen/Technical/DominoEX/ITU/ITU/nvis.html That being said, there are cases where even a 10 dB increase in power will still not get you anywhere. In extreme propagation cases, some modes don't get through no matter how much power you use, see the case of non-FEC DominoEX 4 (blue curve) here, while the FEC versions will get through: http://homepage.mac.com/chen/Technical/DominoEX/ITU/ITU/highLatModerate.html 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Desk top K3
Yeah. A large heavy box. More knobs. More buttons. Color spectrum scope. 100 Watt standard. Less menus. Everything spread out inside. Ethernet connectivity to computer. A K4 kit. But I could like to start another dream: let us have the normal K3 in a much bigger box with a lot more of knobs (and may bee a color display) for us with a big desk top and big hands. Vy 73 OZ1CCM Kjeld __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] antenna farm
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:58:26 -0800, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: Yes you did open the flood gate. Antenna opinions are like noses. Every one has one... As Ron say's, If you can't get a dipole up 1/2wl you will be sending most of your radiated output and receiving at high angles, which won't be what you want unless you plan to do a lot of local rag chewing. Here's a real life test that I made: I have an 80m half sloper on my tower sloping from 38 feet which does pretty well working 360 degrees around (the tower becomes the radiator when using this type of sloper). A couple of weeks ago I put an 80m inverted vee up and compared the two. The inverted vee could not even hear the European signals, but could hear signals within a few hundred miles very well. The reason for that was because the inverted V (at 38 feet) was radiating the largest amount of energy straight up at 90 degrees (verified with EZNEC 5.0). 73, Tom, N5GE n...@n5ge.com K3 #806 with SUB RX, K3 #1055, PR6, XV144, XV432, KRC2, W1, 2 W2's and other small kits 1 K144XV on order http://www.n5ge.com http://www.swotrc.net As Ken mentioned, height is an important factor in a horizontal or semi-horizontal antenna. There's limited gain in any direction at low angles unless the radiator is 1/2 wavelength above ground. That's why most of us have to live with little directivity on the lower bands. The option is to consider verticals. Unless you are living on salt water (or atop a sheet of copper), or can make the vertical a full 1/2 wave high, the vertical won't be as efficient as doublet or dipole, but a vertical will produce typically much better signals at lower angles of radiation than a horizontal antenna (under 1/2 wave high) and doesn't require a huge 'footprint'. Also you can phase multiple verticals for directivity and even design them so you can use them for supports for horizontal wires on the higher bands. You've probably noticed that 45 foot verticals are being heavily promoted these days. That's an old design that is very handy for limited space. It provides low angles of radiation on all bands up through 20 meters where it's 5/8 wavelength high (on bands where it's more than 5/8 wavelength the angle of the main lobe rises from the horizontal and minor lobes appear at high angles). Down on 80 meters it's just a bit shy of 1/4 wavelength. With a good ground system it can produce excellent results down there and even on 160 - especially when compared with the short, low (in wavelengths above ground) antennas most of us are forced to use on those bands Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] NEWVERSION 3.68
Hi Folks Where can I find the 3.68 version to download Thanks in advance Oms PY5EG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] NEWVERSION 3.68
Where can I find the 3.68 version to download K3 Utility will find it for you. It was released today as the production version of code, no longer Beta. 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] RES: NEWVERSION 3.68
Thanks Lyle I already found it 73 Oms PY5EG -Mensagem original- De: Lyle Johnson [mailto:k...@wavecable.com] Enviada em: terça-feira, 15 de dezembro de 2009 18:04 Para: py5eg Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Assunto: Re: [Elecraft] NEWVERSION 3.68 Where can I find the 3.68 version to download K3 Utility will find it for you. It was released today as the production version of code, no longer Beta. 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] 150 watt boots for 160m
Bill, W4ZV wrote: Guy, K2AV wrote: If one wants to dig up the research... http://www.audioholics.com/education/acoustics-principles/human-hearing-amplitude-sensitivity-part-1 Speaking now in terms of dB SPL, the minimum discernable changes by the human ear/brain mechanism I've seen in the research that I've reviewed ranged from about 0.5 dB to 3 dB, depending on a number of factors. Table 1 (see the referenced link above or below) ...SNIP... That someone can, with certain individuals and certain conditions detect less than 3 dB, I would not dispute, any more than I would dispute a Beethoven or John Williams. This is taken into account in the same article you referenced above. ***EMPHASIS ADDED***: begin reference quote - For example, Reisz in his 1928 study used two tones, close in frequency that beat slowly. The beating caused amplitude fluctuations and the minimum audible fluctuation was ~ 1dB. Toole and Olive, on the other hand, in their 1988 study used pink noise for their acoustic signal source and determined that a 5 kHz resonance, with Q = 1 was just detectible at .25 dB. They found pink noise to be the most revealing signal. ***THEY DID EMPLOY OTHER TYPES OF ACOUSTIC SIGNALS IN THEIR STUDY*** and discovered that ***WHEN USING THE LEAST REVEALING*** of these that ***JUST DETECTIBLE THRESHOLD INCREASED BY A FACTOR OF 5***. From the third column of Table 1, we see the ***MINIMUM** detectable value, for the most part, hovers around 1 dB, +/- a fraction of a dB, and and that attainable ***ONLY*** with ideal (or at least as ideal as technology allowed for at the time the study was done) ***[IDEAL] LABORATORY TEST CONDITIONS AND [IDEAL] TEST SUBJECTS.*** I tend to use .75 dB to 1 dB when considering minimums. end reference quote When using the least revealing of these acoustic signals Reisz detectible threshold increased by a factor of 5. 5 dB or 5 times the voltage? Either way that's a huge handicap for not having ideal conditions. Show me something less ideal than QRN based noise varying 20 db on 80 or 160, a pile up half composed of hams that used ctrl-arrow/F4 and a spot to drop on exactly the same frequency as the DX. And then remember it's THEIR ears we're talking about, not ours. We are not talking about ideal laboratory test conditions, or ideal most talented test subjects or about the best possible result. Reisz' work was available to Bell Labs when the 3 dB maintenance standard was decided upon. The lab the phone company was going to have to spend money on (lots of it) was the real world. The Bell System decided that if it got to be 3 dB they would hire employees, buy test equipment, pay salaries and lay away for retirements to fix it. If it's 3 dB or leads to three dB it has to be fixed. In my experience in the phone company, they WOULD fix the 0.2 in a bad (wrapped but not soldered) connection, the 0.4 in a coil gone bad, the 0.9 in a soft tube, but they would find it looking for 3 dB or maintaining components to a 3 dB overall performance. Overall connections less than 3 dB off were in the ain't broke don't fix it, let maintenance snug it up whenever it happens category. Maintenance was the least expensive way to stay inside 3 dB. And they had gain controls to suck up a fair amount of routine variation. This is no different than picking appropriate feedlines for antennas, soldering coax shields in PL259 connectors (be surprised how many don't), etc, etc. We COULD see 0.1 dB in our ATT themocouples and line meters but we wouldn't patch a circuit out of service and ticket it for 1 dB. Wasn't that where we started this discussion, at what dB do we spend money on it? At the time, with Reisz' work in hand, the phone company that the rest of the world envied, that had the labs that gave us the transistor, picked 3 dB. And still, no one talks about the 27 dB between the ears. What was it they called a lid with an amp? A loud lid? How smart is it to ctrl-arrow/F4 and call DX on exactly the same frequency as ten other stations that did the same thing. What's that worth? Minus ten dB? Minus twenty? I've heard a QRO east coast multi, with 4 over 4 on forty at 100' and 200' braying zero beat to the F4 mob and getting beat six or seven times, including by one guy I know was running a wire antenna. There is some ancient wisdom still around that hasn't lost its lustre. YMMV and everyone entitled to spend their money however they want, but I'm saying it takes a smart op (one of those ideals that Reisz was talking about) to make 1.5 dB pay for itself 73 all, and may you always work the DX. Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Desk top K3
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:46:38 +0100, Kjeld Holm k...@kh-translation.dk wrote: You could even pour 30 pounds of concrete into the inside empty space to make it heavy like a big rig ;o) Tom, N5GE n...@n5ge.com K3 #806 with SUB RX, K3 #1055, PR6, XV144, XV432, KRC2, W1, 2 W2's and other small kits 1 K144XV on order http://www.n5ge.com http://www.swotrc.net Agree! separate K3 and amplifier. But I could like to start another dream: let us have the normal K3 in a much bigger box with a lot more of knobs (and may bee a color display) for us with a big desk top and big hands. Vy 73 OZ1CCM Kjeld [snip] __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] W2 Wattmeter
Why would I need a DCHF-200 coupler if the DCHF-2000 would provide low power readouts? The display unit has the bargraph ranges of 2, 20, 200 and 2000 watts. Why not buy two DCHF-2000 couplers, one between the K3 and linear amp and another between the amp and antenna tuner. This way one of the couplers could also be used with a second QRO station in the hamshack. I just don't understand why a DCHF-200 coupler is needed unless it can provide accurate power readings under one watt that the DCHF-2000 maybe cannot. Roy Morris W4WFB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] W2 Wattmeter
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:22:05 -0500, Roy Morris w4...@carolina.rr.com wrote: The DCHF-2000 will not use the two watt range. Why would I need a DCHF-200 coupler if the DCHF-2000 would provide low power readouts? The display unit has the bargraph ranges of 2, 20, 200 and 2000 watts. Why not buy two DCHF-2000 couplers, one between the K3 and linear amp and another between the amp and antenna tuner. This way one of the couplers could also be used with a second QRO station in the hamshack. I just don't understand why a DCHF-200 coupler is needed unless it can provide accurate power readings under one watt that the DCHF-2000 maybe cannot. Roy Morris W4WFB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] boots
I'm not a tech by any standards. This is just IMHO. I have been active on 160m 3 winters chasing DXCC. The 1st winter I ran 100w. I managed 5 countries. I bought an AL 811h just so I had more output on 160m the WARC bands. 17m 12m. My operation is 99.9% CW. I am now at 108 on 160m. Same antenna. An OCF dipole at 50'. My watt meter shows 500w out. I don't push the amp for another 50-75w. I see no point. I added 103 counters in two winters by gg to 500w. on 160m. Since I use yagis on 17m 12m I seldom use the amp. If you want to go from 100w to 150w on 160m go to it. Have fun. If you hear me on 160m CW calling DX know that the amp is on. Now if you come up with a 200-300w amp for 6m let me know. That's my next quest. Getting 47 more on 6m! Happy Holidays k9il k3 #2626 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 11:14 -0800, Kok Chen wrote: On Dec 15, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Jim Brown wrote: ...we are working on the signal to noise ratio, NOT LOUDNESS. It's apples and oranges! The only thing in common is that we're using a log ratio to describe it. I couldn't agree more with Jim on this one. I also agree. On the other hand, in actual on-the-air operation you almost never have a constant signal-to-noise ratio. With typical fading and interference coming and going, I seriously doubt you could ever notice a 1 dB change in power level. During 99% of the QSO the signal is either well above the threshold of copy-ability or well below. It would be very rare that a 1 dB increase in power could turn a non-contact into a valid QSO. On the other-other hand, even if 1 dB made the difference in only one contact in a thousand, that might be very important to a world-class contester. At that level of competition, a 0.1% increase in contacts could be the difference between winning and losing. So I think the bottom line is that 1 dB would make no discernable difference in casual operation. But for someone contesting at the highest levels. that is, someone who has a serious chance of winning a CQWW or a Sweepstakes, a 1 dB improvement is very worthwhile. Al N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
Kok Chen wrote: On Dec 15, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Jim Brown wrote: ...we are working on the signal to noise ratio, NOT LOUDNESS. It's apples and oranges! The only thing in common is that we're using a log ratio to describe it. I couldn't agree more with Jim on this one. In our business, we are trying to get information across, instead of determining if one signal is louder than another. This is demonstrated especially well with digital modes, where we can measure with objective detectors instead of using the subjective gray matter between our ears. There was an interesting series of low power beacon receiving tests conducted in December 2004 through January 2005 by N2XE. John sent a beacon ID message including a unique code word at various power levels on 80m over a several day period. You had to correctly copy each code word correctly to verify reception. There's a lot of documentation on the Topband and QRP-L lists over that period, but here's a brief summary of the results: 80 uW - 8 stations correctly copied. 40 uW - 1 station 27 uW - 1 station 20 uW - 0 stations. The power difference in dB at each succeeding lower level was (top to bottom): -3 dB (i.e. the 80 uW to 40 uW test) -1.7 dB -1.3 dB I copied the beacon at both the 40 uW and 27 uW levels but could not decipher the code word at 20 uW even though I could detect presence of the signal. Unfortunately N2XE ran 20 uW only briefly (because at that point nobody else was hearing it). I believe I could have copied it if he had run it as long as he ran the other tests. The point of this is that small changes in dB do indeed make a difference in the ear/brain's ability to **copy** weak signals in noise, which is really what the discussion is about. Tom W8JI added the following interesting observation (which I also noticed and agree with): Now for the curious effect I observed. While I didn't spend a large amount of time listening to 80 and I never listened to 40 at all, I did notice one thing that I found interesting. Listening to the very low power transmissions on 80 meters I observed a very pronounced signal peak just before sunrise. The effect was very much like the effect called search light or spot light propagation. While the signal was largely in the noise and unreadable from 0900 Z until 1120 Z, I observed a very clear strong peak between 1125 and 1135 Z where the signal was the equivalent of about a 559 or better DX report. By 1138 copy was back to nil with an increase that provided a short 2 minute long readable signal starting at 1143 Z . After 1145 Z that was it for the signal. I never really noticed this effect over the same path when power levels were higher and signal levels stronger, although I'm sure the path loss went through similar variations. This is why even one dB sounds like a large change when signals are in the noise, and is meaningless with 579 signals. http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/2005-01/msg00023.html 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/150-watt-boots-for-160m-tp4151943p4172347.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Desk top K3
But I'm very happy with the K3 format, I wanted a smaller rig and it was part of the selling points that it's smaller and lighter than an FT-2000. Yes I liked the layout and all the colour and 'Wiz' of the FT-2000 - but it's nothing compared to the K3 performance and I released that what mattered to me was a smaller footprint that can fit on my desk without having to take out another mortgage to pay for it and the house to fit it in ;-) However, I think you're asking for a K3+, something with bigger controls basically. As we say here, horses for courses. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- It came to me that reform should begin at home, and since that day I have not had time to remake the world. -Will Durant, historian (1885-1981) On 15 Dec 2009, at 20:21, Radio Amateur N5GE wrote: Agree! separate K3 and amplifier. But I could like to start another dream: let us have the normal K3 in a much bigger box with a lot more of knobs (and may bee a color display) for us with a big desk top and big hands. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:23:27 -0800, Alan Bloom wrote: So I think the bottom line is that 1 dB would make no discernable difference in casual operation. Strongly agree. But for someone contesting at the highest levels. that is, someone who has a serious chance of winning a CQWW or a Sweepstakes, a 1 dB improvement is very worthwhile. AND for working DX when conditions are marginal. I regularly run my Titan amp at 1kW or less to let the tubes and power supply loaf. But if I'm having trouble making a Q, I'll kick the drive up to get to 1.5kW. More than once it has made the difference. NCCC member Bill, N6ZFO, did some statistical analysis and came to the conclusion that 1 dB of signal strength was good for a 2.6% increase in Sweepstakes score. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
[END of Thread (and all other related dB, 100-150-200w threads)] Guys - Thought I ended this thread several days ago. Let's end it again now as we are beating it to death. :-) Must be a slow news day. (or no sun spots!) 73, Eric WA6HHQ elecraft moderator Jim Brown wrote: On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:23:27 -0800, Alan Bloom wrote: So I think the bottom line is that 1 dB would make no discernable __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
On the other-other hand, even if 1 dB made the difference in only one contact in a thousand, that might be very important to a world-class contester. At that level of competition, a 0.1% increase in contacts could be the difference between winning and losing. What you suggest sounds good, but At a world class contest station it's not how loud we transmit that is the maker/breaker. It's how well we receive. If the guy on the other end is running 100 watts to an antenna made of something metallic, shame on us if we don't work them. Working the QRP, basement noodle antenna crowd will make a difference. Getting the other station's call letters the FIRST time, in spite of pileups, noise, weak signal or whatever, ditto their exchange, will improve rate and make a difference. Who owns the last biggest tenth of a dB is a phallic symbol, testosterone thing. It's far easier to be loud. But RX is what wins contests. 73, Guy. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
I'm sorry, but didn't you just prove that it took over 3 dB to make the signal generally copyable from possibly copyable? Potentially copiable at 27 uW (because one did), generally copyable at 80 uW, a difference of 4.7 dB. Makes me wonder if a couple of threads on the merits of dB aren't being written in two languages, e.g. just barely copiable (by at least someone), and separately, generally copyable. 73, Guy. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Bill W4ZV btipp...@alum.mit.edu wrote: There was an interesting series of low power beacon receiving tests conducted in December 2004 through January 2005 by N2XE. John sent a beacon ID message including a unique code word at various power levels on 80m over a several day period. You had to correctly copy each code word correctly to verify reception. There's a lot of documentation on the Topband and QRP-L lists over that period, but here's a brief summary of the results: 80 uW - 8 stations correctly copied. 40 uW - 1 station 27 uW - 1 station 20 uW - 0 stations. The power difference in dB at each succeeding lower level was (top to bottom): -3 dB (i.e. the 80 uW to 40 uW test) -1.7 dB -1.3 dB I copied the beacon at both the 40 uW and 27 uW levels but could not decipher the code word at 20 uW even though I could detect presence of the signal. Unfortunately N2XE ran 20 uW only briefly (because at that point nobody else was hearing it). I believe I could have copied it if he had run it as long as he ran the other tests. The point of this is that small changes in dB do indeed make a difference in the ear/brain's ability to **copy** weak signals in noise, which is really what the discussion is about. Tom W8JI added the following interesting observation (which I also noticed and agree with): Now for the curious effect I observed. While I didn't spend a large amount of time listening to 80 and I never listened to 40 at all, I did notice one thing that I found interesting. Listening to the very low power transmissions on 80 meters I observed a very pronounced signal peak just before sunrise. The effect was very much like the effect called search light or spot light propagation. While the signal was largely in the noise and unreadable from 0900 Z until 1120 Z, I observed a very clear strong peak between 1125 and 1135 Z where the signal was the equivalent of about a 559 or better DX report. By 1138 copy was back to nil with an increase that provided a short 2 minute long readable signal starting at 1143 Z . After 1145 Z that was it for the signal. I never really noticed this effect over the same path when power levels were higher and signal levels stronger, although I'm sure the path loss went through similar variations. This is why even one dB sounds like a large change when signals are in the noise, and is meaningless with 579 signals. http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/2005-01/msg00023.html 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/150-watt-boots-for-160m-tp4151943p4172347.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] END of Thread (and all other related dB, 100-150-200w threads
At 03:19 PM 15/12/09, you wrote: Must be a slow news day. (or no sun spots!) 73, Eric WA6HHQ As a matter of fact, there are some sun spots and the flux is over 80. Activity on 10 15 meters. John k7up __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:20:36 -0500, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: It's far easier to be loud. But RX is what wins contests. It's certainly very important, but I don't think it's either-or, it's both. I know that my Beverages have made me a lot of Qs. Last night, I was trying to work ON4 on 160M. He was solid copy on my Beverage, but he couldn't pull me out of the noise to get my call right. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] dB Changes, Loudness, and Signal to Noise Ratio
Guy, K2AV wrote: I'm sorry, but didn't you just prove that it took over 3 dB to make the signal generally copyable from possibly copyable? Potentially copiable at 27 uW (because one did), generally copyable at 80 uW, a difference of 4.7 dB. No Guy, I proved -1.3 dB (20 uW versus 27 uW) was the difference in one station and operator (i.e. yours truly) just detecting the signal versus having verified copy. End of thread per Eric's request. 73, Bill On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Bill W4ZV btipp...@alum.mit.edu wrote: There was an interesting series of low power beacon receiving tests conducted in December 2004 through January 2005 by N2XE. John sent a beacon ID message including a unique code word at various power levels on 80m over a several day period. You had to correctly copy each code word correctly to verify reception. There's a lot of documentation on the Topband and QRP-L lists over that period, but here's a brief summary of the results: 80 uW - 8 stations correctly copied. 40 uW - 1 station 27 uW - 1 station 20 uW - 0 stations. The power difference in dB at each succeeding lower level was (top to bottom): -3 dB (i.e. the 80 uW to 40 uW test) -1.7 dB -1.3 dB I copied the beacon at both the 40 uW and 27 uW levels but could not decipher the code word at 20 uW even though I could detect presence of the signal. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/150-watt-boots-for-160m-tp4151943p4172678.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Firmware loading
I loaded the newest firmware into my K3 sucessfully tonight. However I see a lot of retries during the FPF part of the firmware load. Is this normal? I am using an RS232 cable and COM1(38000,N,8,1). Everything loaded OK but I was wondering if I may have a wrong setting somewhere? 73 Keith Hamilton W8GX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Firmware loading
I too, experienced some issues. Be sure you are using the latest utility. Not all USB to Serial converters are made equal. I have also found that connectors and make of adapters have impacts. Oh, then let's add in the age of your OS installation. When I get errors, if it doesn't load. Load again using only newer software. Seems to get through it for me. Good luck. 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Keith Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:10 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Firmware loading I loaded the newest firmware into my K3 sucessfully tonight. However I see a lot of retries during the FPF part of the firmware load. Is this normal? I am using an RS232 cable and COM1(38000,N,8,1). Everything loaded OK but I was wondering if I may have a wrong setting somewhere? 73 Keith Hamilton W8GX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] antenna farm
Yes your inverted-vee has max gain at 90 degrees elevation, but you (editorial sense) still need to compare its gain in the direction of interest with a vertical (or near vertical) over the same ground and with a real-world ground system. Wes N7WS --- On Tue, 12/15/09, Radio Amateur N5GE n...@n5ge.com wrote: From: Radio Amateur N5GE n...@n5ge.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] antenna farm To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 12:40 PM On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:58:26 -0800, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: Yes you did open the flood gate. Antenna opinions are like noses. Every one has one... As Ron say's, If you can't get a dipole up 1/2wl you will be sending most of your radiated output and receiving at high angles, which won't be what you want unless you plan to do a lot of local rag chewing. Here's a real life test that I made: I have an 80m half sloper on my tower sloping from 38 feet which does pretty well working 360 degrees around (the tower becomes the radiator when using this type of sloper). A couple of weeks ago I put an 80m inverted vee up and compared the two. The inverted vee could not even hear the European signals, but could hear signals within a few hundred miles very well. The reason for that was because the inverted V (at 38 feet) was radiating the largest amount of energy straight up at 90 degrees (verified with EZNEC 5.0). 73, Tom, N5GE n...@n5ge.com K3 #806 with SUB RX, K3 #1055, PR6, XV144, XV432, KRC2, W1, 2 W2's and other small kits 1 K144XV on order http://www.n5ge.com http://www.swotrc.net As Ken mentioned, height is an important factor in a horizontal or semi-horizontal antenna. There's limited gain in any direction at low angles unless the radiator is 1/2 wavelength above ground. That's why most of us have to live with little directivity on the lower bands. The option is to consider verticals. Unless you are living on salt water (or atop a sheet of copper), or can make the vertical a full 1/2 wave high, the vertical won't be as efficient as doublet or dipole, but a vertical will produce typically much better signals at lower angles of radiation than a horizontal antenna (under 1/2 wave high) and doesn't require a huge 'footprint'. Also you can phase multiple verticals for directivity and even design them so you can use them for supports for horizontal wires on the higher bands. You've probably noticed that 45 foot verticals are being heavily promoted these days. That's an old design that is very handy for limited space. It provides low angles of radiation on all bands up through 20 meters where it's 5/8 wavelength high (on bands where it's more than 5/8 wavelength the angle of the main lobe rises from the horizontal and minor lobes appear at high angles). Down on 80 meters it's just a bit shy of 1/4 wavelength. With a good ground system it can produce excellent results down there and even on 160 - especially when compared with the short, low (in wavelengths above ground) antennas most of us are forced to use on those bands Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] MCU 3.68
I am using K3 utility 1.2.10.27 and have mcu 3.59 installed. Cant load or find the new 3.68. I have NEVER had a problem before. Am I not doing something correct? Strange. Thanks. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] MCU 3.68
Please disregard my last post, I had a senior moment J Michael KC0CF S/N 02518 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] New W2 Firmware Rev 0.92 available on our ftp site!
Hot news! The latest W2 firmware rev (0.92) is now available on our ftp site. The easiest way to get it downloaded into your W2 is with our Elecraft W2 Utility program, available in three flavors (PC, Mac, Linux). Check out the Elecraft website for all the details! This new W2 firmware version has the following cool features... First, a fix: *SWR LED's FLASH RANDOMLY WHEN A SENSOR IS CONNECTED:* This turned out to be caused by corrupted data in EEPROM. This version checks for this and will correct it by restoring the data to default settings. And then some enhancements: SENSOR CALIBRATION VALUES EXPANDED: The calibration data for the Sensors is now saved both by Sensor type and the connector used by the Sensor. Among other benefits, this allows you to calibrate two of the same type of Sensors independently. FURTHER IMPROVEMENTS IN AUTO RANGE DISPLAY: We are continuing to improve the LED display in the Auto mode. In addition to editing algorithms, we are setting the LED and Serial Data Output modes to default as PEP, rather than Average Power. This can be changed at any time using the M (LED's) and N (Serial Data) commands We hope this latest version makes the W2 an even more useful and enjoyable wattmeter for your shack. Keep watching for the next release and new W2 related software programs coming soon! 73, Brian, W6FVI W2 Firmware Engineer Elecraft, Inc. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3-Ham Radio Deluxe question
Started using HRD 4.1 build 2321 and with my K3. When trying to use it with the 10Ghz transverter the frequency display on HRD is bogus and freq control fails. So does HRD have an upper feq limit. Worked ok on 1296Mhz, one digit less. Thanks Thanks Bill K0AWU EN37ed __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 alignment problem
I have recently completed phase III build of my K2 and started the alignment process. A couple of problems developed during the alignment so I went back and started re-checking phases I and II resistance and voltage checks. During the initial construction of these two phases all of the resistance and voltage checks were within specified ranges. This time the VCO voltages were off. I am able to get the 6vdc at R30 with no problem. It was fully adjustable to that value at 1 turn from the top of L30. The voltages on 80 meters did drop from 6 vdc at 4ooo hz to 1.7 vdc at 3500 hz. When checking the voltages on the other bands the voltage was a solid 8.3 vdc at the low and upper ends of the bands and would not vary when moving the vfo. The display on the dmm did show the proper voltages while moving the vfo but then went back to 8.3 vdc when I stopped moving the dial. Adjusting the voltage at L30 did not change the voltage from 8.3 vdc. When I switched back to 80 meters I was able to adjust back to 6vdc as before. Anybody have any suggestions? I have searched the archives and found nothing on this subject. I have checked the K13, K14, and K15 relay contacts and they are working normally. Varactors D19 - D20 are not installed. The varactors were visibly checked by number and physical size. Could I have a problem with the Z1 shaft encoder or the U3 chip it drives? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Dan af4lb __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Noisy K-3 Receiver
Hi Guys, I'd appreciate your thoughts as to why my K-3 receiver is so noisy. I'd really like to make this radio perform. The radio is Serial #603F (factory model) running 1.2.10.27. I purchased the unit from the original owner a couple of months ago so I don't know if it's always been this noisy but I do know it was the same before I recently updated software to 1.2.10.27. The radio is in immaculate condition and was never used mobile or bounced around. (it's a beautiful radio that looks like new!) I say the receiver is noisy based upon listening to dozens of different signals on: 40/20/15 m. and by doing numerous A/B comparison tests. The comparison tests were done with the K-3 Pre-Amp turned Off. (and tried with ATT on and off but mostly on to reduce noise). Radio 1: Yaesu FT-1000-MP w/AF Mod. A signal is peaking S-8 and with the no signal noise level is averaging S-1. Therefore, the signal is peaking aprx. 7 s-units above the noise based upon the MP s-meter and the signal sounds loud and is way above the noise level. Now I switch to the K-3: Radio 2: K-3 tuned to the same signal with PreAmp Off and is peaking S-7 but the no signal noise level is noisy S-4 to S-5. Therefore, the signal is peaking only about 2 or 3 s-units above the noise level based upon the K-3 s-meter. The result is that the MP has aprx. a 4 s-unit S/N ratio advantage. Thoughts: I realize that all s-meters read differently and the fact that the MP s-meter shows a 4 s-unit stronger signal above the noise level doesn't mean alot. But the fact is that the signal on the MP sounds MUCH louder with alot more headroom above the noise level. The K-3 receiver sounds so noisy even with the S-7 signal that it isn't enjoyable listening to and that's why I ran the comparisons because I couldn't stand all the noise. Switching on the K-3's NR, ATT, and/or adjusting the RF Gain does help some but the signal still sounds noisy compared to the MP. Based upon Reviews of the K-3 I believe that I must have an unusual K-3 noisy receiver problem. I'd sure appreciate your ideas on how I can get a better S/N ratio on my K-3. Thanks! 73, Dick- K9OM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
