Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
Ken, Answer 1: The slope number refers to the AGC action, and that is the inverse of the audio response. If charts are helpful to you, Jack Smith has measured and plotted the AGC response for the K3 - see http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm#AGC_SLP_and_AGC_THR 73, Don W3FPR Kenneth Waites wrote: Question 1: AGC SLP: The manual reads wrong to me in the discussion pp 53. Wouldn't a slope of zero keep signals from going up in volume more so than a slope of 10? I think of a higher slope meaning faster audio increase as signals get stronger. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
I also wondered about that. The slope of a line (the ratio of vertical to horizontal displacement) is flatter for lower values. But in the K3 a smaller SLP value means a steeper AGC curve (the AF output changes more for a given change in RF signal). SLP=0 really means least AGC action, not flattest AGC, so the manual description is correct. 73, Drew AF2Z On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:37:16 -0800 (PST), Ken K5WK wrote: Question 1: AGC SLP: The manual reads wrong to me in the discussion pp 53. Wouldn't a slope of zero keep signals from going up in volume more so than a slope of 10? I think of a higher slope meaning faster audio increase as signals get stronger. Question 2: Under what conditions do you want to change AGC PLS? Ken K5WK __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
That certainly helps me a lot, I have been struggling with K3 AGC settings and this helps a lot, I don't remember seeing this posted before. So thanks to Don for posting the link and many, many thanks to Jack for making it clearer. I just need to read that a few more times now. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. -Lord Acton, historian (1834-1902) On 9 Dec 2009, at 13:15, Don Wilhelm wrote: If charts are helpful to you, Jack Smith has measured and plotted the AGC response for the K3 - see http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm#AGC_SLP_and_AGC_THR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
I have found so many different adjustment parameters for AGC in K3 that I would apperciate AGC settings for dummies type of instructions. :) I previously owned IC-756PRO3 which can be used as reference of well functioning AGC among DSP radios. Very pleasant experience. Olli OH6CT -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] Puolesta David Ferrington, M0XDF Lähetetty: 9. joulukuuta 2009 17:53 Vastaanottaja: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Aihe: Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment That certainly helps me a lot, I have been struggling with K3 AGC settings and this helps a lot, I don't remember seeing this posted before. So thanks to Don for posting the link and many, many thanks to Jack for making it clearer. I just need to read that a few more times now. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. -Lord Acton, historian (1834-1902) On 9 Dec 2009, at 13:15, Don Wilhelm wrote: If charts are helpful to you, Jack Smith has measured and plotted the AGC response for the K3 - see http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm#AGC _SLP_and_AGC_THR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
Olli, I don't think it is so difficult that one needs AGC for dummies. If you want every signal to have about the same audio level, then set the slope to a higher number, but if you want to hear that a strong signal is louder than a weaker signal by ear (without looking at the S-meter), then go for a smaller numbered slope. That is what Jack Smith's charts indicate - and I have set my slope to 2 since that setting is close to the AGC response on the K2 which I liked. The threshold is set so the AGC will not be active on weak signals - the lower the number, the lower the AGC action will start - set too low, the AGC can become active on band noise and will de-sense the receiver even though there are no signals present. How much band noise is present will depend on atmospheric conditions, local QRN, and your antenna. The beauty of the K3 is that it allows you to change the AGC behavior. If you are not of a mind to study the effect of various setting, I believe you would just leave it set at the defaults until you are ready to investigate the possibilities and learn about them - that is what defaults are all about IMHO. 73, Don W3FPR Olli Tuppurainen wrote: I have found so many different adjustment parameters for AGC in K3 that I would apperciate AGC settings for dummies type of instructions. :) I previously owned IC-756PRO3 which can be used as reference of well functioning AGC among DSP radios. Very pleasant experience. Olli OH6CT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
Gentlemen, I truly love this reflector and my sincere thanks to Jack Smith of Clifton Labs for this interesting piece. The ultimate user manual for the K3 might rival Webster's in its weight. 73 Doug EI2CN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Ferrington, M0XDF Sent: 09 December 2009 15:53 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment That certainly helps me a lot, I have been struggling with K3 AGC settings and this helps a lot, I don't remember seeing this posted before. So thanks to Don for posting the link and many, many thanks to Jack for making it clearer. I just need to read that a few more times now. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. -Lord Acton, historian (1834-1902) On 9 Dec 2009, at 13:15, Don Wilhelm wrote: If charts are helpful to you, Jack Smith has measured and plotted the AGC response for the K3 - see http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm#AGC_SLP_a nd_AGC_THR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
Don Wilhelm wrote: I don't think it is so difficult that one needs AGC for dummies. If you want every signal to have about the same audio level, then set the slope to a higher number, but if you want to hear that a strong signal is louder than a weaker signal by ear (without looking at the S-meter), then go for a smaller numbered slope. That is what Jack Smith's charts indicate - and I have set my slope to 2 since that setting is close to the AGC response on the K2 which I liked. The threshold is set so the AGC will not be active on weak signals - the lower the number, the lower the AGC action will start - set too low, the AGC can become active on band noise and will de-sense the receiver even though there are no signals present. How much band noise is present will depend on atmospheric conditions, local QRN, and your antenna. Possibly, that WAS K3 AGC For Dummies. I'm gonna go look at mine, I was bewildered at first. Maybe now, not so much. 73, Fred K6DGW Auburn CA USA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
Question 1: AGC SLP: The manual reads wrong to me in the discussion pp 53. Wouldn't a slope of zero keep signals from going up in volume more so than a slope of 10? I think of a higher slope meaning faster audio increase as signals get stronger. Question 2: Under what conditions do you want to change AGC PLS? Ken K5WK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment
Ken, SLP High number = flat output for strong and weak sigs. Just give it a try and see for yourself. PLS: always on, it suppresses the AGC reaction to short pulses. Never turned it off here. A lot has been written about this subject. See: www.sherweng.com, presentation about: DSP Radios - Not Perfect 73 Arie PA3A -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] Namens Kenneth Waites Verzonden: woensdag 9 december 2009 6:37 Aan: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Onderwerp: [Elecraft] K3: AGC Adjustment Question 1: AGC SLP: The manual reads wrong to me in the discussion pp 53. Wouldn't a slope of zero keep signals from going up in volume more so than a slope of 10? I think of a higher slope meaning faster audio increase as signals get stronger. Question 2: Under what conditions do you want to change AGC PLS? Ken K5WK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 AGC adjustment and ear recovery time
The lowband season is well underway, and I'm really enjoying it with my new K3. I'm enjoying the low pitch CW capability (my current setting is 320 Hz), and the 400 Hz 8-pole roofing filter that I use most of the time. In my rather noisy inner suburban location, I'm using both the noise blanker and DSP NR functions to pull out the weak ones. In conjunction with all these great DX tools, I've been experimenting with the AGC SLP and THR adjustments in light of earlier discussions on this reflector. A simple archive search on AGC SLP yielded much food for thought. Thanks to Lyle Dunlap and Jack Smith for their technical information; also to Fred, KT5X, for the useful suggestion on assigning the SLP and THR adjustments to the PF1 and PF2 keys. I have this theory that for lowband DX work, especially on 80 and 160 meters, that a low threshold combined with a flattened characteristic (high SLP value) might help the ears in dealing with the huge disparity in signal levels between the DX and the QRM. I've noticed that my ears seem to have a recovery time from the blast from loud signals encountered when a loud DX cop is interfering, or when I switch back to my Rx VFO after checking the pileup on the Tx frequency. A flat AGC response seems to help a lot. Perhaps others have some thoughts or theories on this? At any rate, I'm so pleased to have a radio where these AGC parameters are adjustable! 73, Chuck Guenther NI0C St. Louis, MO K2/10 s/n 5853 K3/100 s/n 1061 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC Adjustment Parameters
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I need some enlightenment. In reading the FAQ's concerning the AGC parameters of the K3, I found the following discussion: Are the settings variable in terms of attack, hang, and decay? In the menu, you can set the following parameters for AGC: Attack time, Hold (Hang) time, Decay rate (in dB/sec for Fast and Slow), Threshold, and Slope. Slope sets the compression you get from AGC, whether you like everything above the threshold to be flat (S4 and 40 over S9 are the same level) or some sort of slope (2:1, 10:1 whatever) so stronger signals are somewhat louder. In the User Manual under the program menus on page 50, I only see adjustable AGC paramenters for Hold, Pulse and Slope. Nothing on adjusting the 'attack time', 'decay rate' or 'threshold'. Did I miss something elsewhere in the manual or am I misinterpreting something? The other parameters were there in early beta versions of the firmware, but were removed for production. I believe (but you will have to get this from the horse's mouth) that it was found possible to optimize these settings, so they didn't need to be adjustable. I know, for example, that the attack time was originally adjustable so that you could set it to ignore short noise pulses. But since then, the AGC Pulse function was implemented to deal with this, and so the attack can be as short as possible for best performance. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] K3 AGC Adjustment Parameters
Hi Greg and the List, Thanks for your comment. But... AGC parameter control is a major issue for some of us. It represents a major deviation form what was discussed initially in the FAQ's. I'm sure its lack discussion in light of the change and the million things going on was an oversight but I also wish it had been communicated or mentioned briefly earlier. It really needs a clarifying comment from the mother ship right now IMO. Regards and 73 de N1LQ-Dave ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
