Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[rocketnj]

Great news Dave! 
Your brother will be happy to get back on the air.

Tech support from Elecraft and the users on this group is excellent. Lots of 
knowledge that they are willing to share.

Dave wo2x

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of David Olean
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:17 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] A broken K3

Hello again

I finally sorted out the problem with my brother , K0ZK's Elecraft K3. 
It was an oldie with a serial number in the 300s and it died on him in the 
middle of a QSO. It has been dead for about six months and he is not in the 
best of health, so I figured I would try to fix it for him. Elecraft Tech 
Support came through even with all of the Virus conditions rocking the entire 
economy. Symptoms were no TX or RX, but everything seemed to be working as 
relays clicked as you changed bands, and the dial indications seemed OK. I 
traced the problem to a missing synthesizer signal to the first mixer and also 
the 2nd mixer on TX.  I tried swapping out the synthesizer, but had no luck as 
the 2nd synthesizer did not work either.  With the expert help and advice from 
Tech Support I found that my synthesizer was missing the 8 VDC on one of the 
connector pins. Checking the 8 volt rail, the resistance to ground seemed OK, 
so I removed the 8 V regulator and supplied 8 volts from an external current 
regulated power supply.  It pulled about 230 ma at 8 volts. The K3 t
 ook off and started working again with 8 volts supplied. 
I had to do another synthesizer CAL, but after doing that, the rig is good to 
go on all bands.

I was hoping that I had a new 8 volt regulator in my junque box. After an 
exhaustive search I found everything BUT and 8 volt regulator, so I will have 
to order one. I'll also get some upgrade kits from Elecraft to bring K3 #387 
into the 21st century. Gold pins are on top of the list.

Thanks for the excellent tech support help, Elecraft!

73

Dave K1WHS

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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[Martin Sole]

Hi David,

I had a couple of failures this past year on my early K3 s/n 298. It's 
been updated with new synths and a new KRX3A plus it was updated some 
years ago before I got it and has most of the factory mods, though not 
the gold pins. If you search the archive here on my callsign you can see 
what I posted. Briefly I had first a loss of TX and some months later a 
loss of RX and TX.


Both faults were traced to 0.1uF decoupling capacitors on the K3REF 
board going leaky and puling bias voltages down such that they would not 
switch the various circuits/signals.  In the first case it caused loss 
of the TX bias voltage so the diode switching was not working. In the 
second case it was causing loss of second L.O. injection which of course 
made for a rather quiet receiver as well as no transmit.


Good luck, for sure you can fix it or get it fixed.

73
Martin, HS0ZED






On 25/03/2020 21:49, David Olean wrote:
Hello Jack, I have responded to Keith and am following his directions. 
He had lots of good info for me to try, and I am grateful for that.


Dave, K1WHS

On 3/25/2020 5:48 AM, Jack Brindle wrote:

David;

Go back and re-read the message from Keith Trinity. Keith is one of 
the guys down in Watsonville and knows more about the K3 than just 
about anyone.


To put it another way, you were indeed contacted by Customer Support.

73!
Jack, W6FB



On Mar 24, 2020, at 7:46 PM, David Olean  wrote:

I swapped out the non working synthesizer with a good one I had 
removed for an upgrade. The new one did not work either, so it is 
something else. I tried calibrating both synthesizers and received 
an error message ERROR 00044 on both of them.  I have been trying to 
contact Elecraft support, but have no joy there yet.


I guess I need to study the schematics some more. I must be missing 
a voltage somewhere. I tried re seating the connectors on many of 
the boards including the front panel. No luck there either, but I 
will try again tomorrow and use some DE-OXIT.


73

Dave K1WHS

On 3/25/2020 2:14 AM, Wilson Lamb wrote:

Why wouldn't you change  the synth?
I wouldn't even think of troubleshooting such a complicated, but 
free, board!

A bad one will obviously shut down both RX and TX!
WL
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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[David Olean]

Hello Jack, I have responded to Keith and am following his directions. 
He had lots of good info for me to try, and I am grateful for that.


Dave, K1WHS

On 3/25/2020 5:48 AM, Jack Brindle wrote:

David;

Go back and re-read the message from Keith Trinity. Keith is one of the guys 
down in Watsonville and knows more about the K3 than just about anyone.

To put it another way, you were indeed contacted by Customer Support.

73!
Jack, W6FB



On Mar 24, 2020, at 7:46 PM, David Olean  wrote:

I swapped out the non working synthesizer with a good one I had removed for an 
upgrade. The new one did not work either, so it is something else. I tried 
calibrating both synthesizers and received an error message ERROR 00044 on both 
of them.  I have been trying to contact Elecraft support, but have no joy there 
yet.

I guess I need to study the schematics some more. I must be missing a voltage 
somewhere. I tried re seating the connectors on many of the boards including 
the front panel. No luck there either, but I will try again tomorrow and use 
some DE-OXIT.

73

Dave K1WHS

On 3/25/2020 2:14 AM, Wilson Lamb wrote:

Why wouldn't you change  the synth?
I wouldn't even think of troubleshooting such a complicated, but free, board!
A bad one will obviously shut down both RX and TX!
WL
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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[Jack Brindle via Elecraft]

David;

Go back and re-read the message from Keith Trinity. Keith is one of the guys 
down in Watsonville and knows more about the K3 than just about anyone.

To put it another way, you were indeed contacted by Customer Support.

73!
Jack, W6FB


> On Mar 24, 2020, at 7:46 PM, David Olean  wrote:
> 
> I swapped out the non working synthesizer with a good one I had removed for 
> an upgrade. The new one did not work either, so it is something else. I tried 
> calibrating both synthesizers and received an error message ERROR 00044 on 
> both of them.  I have been trying to contact Elecraft support, but have no 
> joy there yet.
> 
> I guess I need to study the schematics some more. I must be missing a voltage 
> somewhere. I tried re seating the connectors on many of the boards including 
> the front panel. No luck there either, but I will try again tomorrow and use 
> some DE-OXIT.
> 
> 73
> 
> Dave K1WHS
> 
> On 3/25/2020 2:14 AM, Wilson Lamb wrote:
>> Why wouldn't you change  the synth?
>> I wouldn't even think of troubleshooting such a complicated, but free, board!
>> A bad one will obviously shut down both RX and TX!
>> WL
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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[David Olean]

Hi Merv,

The HI RFI message may be a different problem. I know it can relate to 
blown PIN diodes. Been there Done that!  I am seeing no RF coming out of 
the synthesizer and that would cause my RX and TX problem. Thanks for 
the hints though. I appreciate any and all comments.


Dave K1WHS

On 3/25/2020 3:35 AM, K9FD wrote:

I recently had a Hi RFI alarm,  I could not clear it,
ended up being the KIO3 board set had a problem,  since I had a
new one on hand to upgrade to,  installing it solved the HI RFI
problem.
Looking back it seems that my failure came from a lightning pulse,
not a strike but a nearby cloud to cloud and it burned out the ant
input on the KIO3..

Yours may be much different,  just relating my problem with HI RFI.

73 Merv K9FD


Dave,

HI RFI means the sensor on the RX antenna input is seeing a high 
level of RF.  If you are operating into an antenna, switch to a dummy 
load while you are troubleshooting.  It just might be a quirk of your 
setup, and if you have no RX Antenna connected, it could be a 
troubleshooting tool for you.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/24/2020 2:02 PM, David Olean wrote:


Thanks so much to all who responded.  One thing I did not mention is 
that I get a "HI RFI" error message at times when I key the radio.  
It makes me wonder if there is something else wrong.



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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[K9FD]

I recently had a Hi RFI alarm,  I could not clear it,
ended up being the KIO3 board set had a problem,  since I had a
new one on hand to upgrade to,  installing it solved the HI RFI
problem.
Looking back it seems that my failure came from a lightning pulse,
not a strike but a nearby cloud to cloud and it burned out the ant
input on the KIO3..

Yours may be much different,  just relating my problem with HI RFI.

73 Merv K9FD


Dave,

HI RFI means the sensor on the RX antenna input is seeing a high level 
of RF.  If you are operating into an antenna, switch to a dummy load 
while you are troubleshooting.  It just might be a quirk of your 
setup, and if you have no RX Antenna connected, it could be a 
troubleshooting tool for you.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/24/2020 2:02 PM, David Olean wrote:


Thanks so much to all who responded.  One thing I did not mention is 
that I get a "HI RFI" error message at times when I key the radio.  
It makes me wonder if there is something else wrong.



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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[David Olean]

I swapped out the non working synthesizer with a good one I had removed 
for an upgrade. The new one did not work either, so it is something 
else. I tried calibrating both synthesizers and received an error 
message ERROR 00044 on both of them.  I have been trying to contact 
Elecraft support, but have no joy there yet.


I guess I need to study the schematics some more. I must be missing a 
voltage somewhere. I tried re seating the connectors on many of the 
boards including the front panel. No luck there either, but I will try 
again tomorrow and use some DE-OXIT.


73

Dave K1WHS

On 3/25/2020 2:14 AM, Wilson Lamb wrote:

Why wouldn't you change  the synth?
I wouldn't even think of troubleshooting such a complicated, but free, board!
A bad one will obviously shut down both RX and TX!
WL
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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

HI RFI means the sensor on the RX antenna input is seeing a high level 
of RF.  If you are operating into an antenna, switch to a dummy load 
while you are troubleshooting.  It just might be a quirk of your setup, 
and if you have no RX Antenna connected, it could be a troubleshooting 
tool for you.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/24/2020 2:02 PM, David Olean wrote:


Thanks so much to all who responded.  One thing I did not mention is 
that I get a "HI RFI" error message at times when I key the radio.  It 
makes me wonder if there is something else wrong.



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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[David Olean]

Thanks to all who offered an old style synthesizer. That is great.   You 
folks are the greatest (of course!) I actually have two old synths here, 
so I can swap it out if it comes to that. I was just looking for 
troubleshooting advice at the board level with the existing 
synthesizer.  I might want to keep my two old KSYNs intact as I may need 
them in the future. Who knows?  It is nice to know there are many folks 
willing to help!


Thanks so much to all who responded.  One thing I did not mention is 
that I get a "HI RFI" error message at times when I key the radio.  It 
makes me wonder if there is something else wrong.


Dave K1WHS

On 3/24/2020 5:38 PM, w4sc wrote:


Dave,

I think I have a 1^st Gen Synthesizer  (KSYN3) from when I upgraded 
 to the KSYN3A.  I’ll look….


I’ll ship N/C if you can use

73 de Ben W4SC

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows 10



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Re: [Elecraft] A broken K3

[David Olean]

You are right, Bill,

I have three K3s and the two oldest ones had old synths. I upgraded one 
of them and kept one AS-IS so I could compare them. I do have two old 
synthesizers. If worse comes to worse, I can plug one in and then I 
think I need to do some form of synthesizer calibration . It has been so 
long, I forgot! I did want to see if I could fix this one.


Dave K1WHS

On 3/24/2020 5:17 PM, Bill Steffey NY9H wrote:
from looking at your pictures on QRZ  it looks like you also have a 
k3...  I would imagine you upgraded the synth boards 


yes??



bill

On 3/24/2020 12:57 PM, David Olean wrote:

For all you tech gurus,

I am trying to fix an old K3 that belongs to my brother. He has 
serious medical issues and I was hoping to fix his K3 so he can use 
it and be on the air in between chemo treatments.  He is very 
isolated and a working ham rig would be a big help to him. I am not 
having much luck with tech support with all the virus concerns and 
work disruptions. Here is what is happening in his K3 SN: 378


No receive or transmit. I hear no band noise, just a bit of hiss with 
the volume turned to max. He was in the middle of a QSO and it just 
died. When you transmit, it acts like it is transmitting but there is 
no output. The digital readout indicates a frequency and it changes 
as you turn the big knob, but the K3 hears nothing and transmits 
nothing. If you change bands the rig changes bands and all looks OK 
as to frequency readout etc. I hear all the relays clicking, but no 
RX or TX anywhere.


I see a 8.23 MHz signal at the RXIF  cable on the RF board (J-81) 
from the KREF board. It is about  100 mv p to p.


I do not see any signal on the TXIF  cable going to the RF board 
(J-65) from KREF board.


I checked at Pin 2 on P73 (The synthesizer) for any RF output from 
the VCO and I see nothing except some suspicious DC fluctuations that 
amounts to a jump of maybe 100 mv. It looks random and not normal.  I 
should see several volts of RF here I think!


I do see the 49.380 MHz signal in the KREF board. (J1 & J2) That part 
is working normally.


This is telling me that I have a synthesizer problem. Are there 
things to check on the Synth board?  Is there any typical failure 
mode that has shown up?  Are the boards repaired, or must I buy a new 
synthesizer board?  This is an original synthesizer board, not a new 
design K3S board.


I have been waiting for days to get any tech support response.

Any help would be appreciated.

73

Dave K1WHS


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