Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Jim Brown]

On 3/7/2022 4:16 PM, Mike Fatchett wrote:

and do those numbers mean the difference in working a station or not?


It can have something to do with hearing weak ones when there are very 
strong ones around.


I like the late Dick Heyser's comment about frequency response of sound 
equipment. "Using only frequency response of a system to describe it is 
like trying to write Shakespeare with only one word in your vocabulary."


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2022 07 Mar 18:18 -0600, Mike Fatchett wrote:
> On 3/7/2022 4:17 PM, Bob McGraw wrote:
> > As I read the numbers the FT-DX101D is not necessarily the top radio.
> > Here's why:
> > 
> > Noise Floor     FT-DX101D -127 dBm Elecraft K3S  -135
> > dBm  FLEX 6700  -118 dBm
> > 
> > Sensitivity      FT-DX101D .60 uV Elecraft K3S .27
> > uV          FLEX 6700  2.0 uV
>
> and do those numbers mean the difference in working a station or not?

I think that when one considers the Noise floor, and the sensitivity of
the three, those with a low noise location will notice the difference.

Another specification I considered was ultimate filter rejection.  After
having experienced filter blow-by, it is one of my top considerations.

I can't say that I have a superior location nor antenna setup, but I
routinely hear net control stations saying that someone just faded away
when I don't observe that kind of QSB here with the K3.  As I hear such
comments from NCSs in Kansas and Nebraska, it seems to be more than just
one operator making such comments.  I can't imagine the ionosphere is
more stable to this location than everywhere else.

73, Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Mike Fatchett]

and do those numbers mean the difference in working a station or not?

On 3/7/2022 4:17 PM, Bob McGraw wrote:
As I read the numbers the FT-DX101D is not necessarily the top radio. 
Here's why:


Noise Floor     FT-DX101D -127 dBm Elecraft K3S  -135 
dBm  FLEX 6700  -118 dBm


AGC Threshold   FT-DX101D 4.5 uV         Elecraft K3S  1.5 
uV          FLEX 6700 4.2 uV


100kHz Blocking--- FT-DX101D 147 dB        Elecraft K3S  150 dB   
   FLEX 6700  130 dB


Sensitivity      FT-DX101D .60 uV Elecraft K3S .27 
uV          FLEX 6700  2.0 uV


LO Noise -     FT-DX101D 154 dBc   Elecraft K3S  144 
dBc   FLEX 6700  145 dBc


Dynamic Range wide spaced ---   FT-DX1010D  110 dB     Elecraft K3S    
107 dB    FLEX   99 dB


So you see, one needs to look at ALL the numbers, not just the 
ranking, based on Dynamic Range narrow spaced.


All numbers from Sherwood Engineering 3/7/2022 Receiver test data.

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 3/7/2022 2:18 PM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:42:35 -0600
From: Kurt Pawlikowski
To:"elecraft@mailman.qth.net"  
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400
Message-ID:<6eeff195-f4ba-5836-39b5-07baecf1c...@pinrod.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Scott,

  ??? Well, yes: The "numbers" say one thing (or several things!), but,
like I said, I'm in love with Elecraft... So, yes, I'm prejudiced! Of
course the "top radio (FT-DX101D)" is somewhat more expensive then the
6400, and does seem to have some nice whistles and bells. Who knows?
Maybe I'll do a switch to Yaesu... {'-)

  ??? k WB9FMC

On 3/5/22 18:46, Scott Manthe wrote:

Actually, the Yaesu FTDX101D/MP has the best receiver numbers on
Sherwood's list. That doesn't mean that it's the best radio for you,
but the Flex and the K4 aren't "far and away" better receivers than
anything else in the amateur market. Ironically, Rob seems to really
like Icoms...

73,
Scott N9AA

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Mike,

    Of course, you're right about approaching it from the "eliminate 
the noise" point-of-view, but I live in a condo with a constant S-7 or 
so noise floor on 40 meters. No, it's not all from the surrounding 
units, but that 101D as seen in the videos I've watched, seems to do 
some amazing things! If it could do anything like I saw, it would be 
well worth the money. Ah, well! still mulling it over...


    k WB9FMC

On 3/7/22 10:25, Mike Fatchett wrote:
You are attacking your noise problem from the wrong direction. You 
should be eliminating the noise sources around you first. Software 
solutions do not remove the noise they mask it.    All noise blankers 
are different and I have found that they all handle some noises better 
than the other.  Under DX/contest crowded conditions received signals 
will become distorted.


Many people do not set up their Flex's properly.  It is a fairly 
complex radio and is not for everyone.  It is incredibly flexible and 
does some amazing things.  Not everyone wants those features and would 
prefer a conventional radio with knobs.


Good luck.

W0MU

On 3/6/2022 1:54 PM, Kurt Pawlikowski wrote:

Morgan,

    Wow! That's a LOT of very useful information. While my situation 
doesn't include an amp, I like your comment about not being able to 
"kill" the Mercury III's. I'll keep that in mind.


    Well, thank you (and everyone else!) for these responses! Now I 
have some thinking to do and a decision to make. If the FTDX-101D 
really can help with my particular noise, that would be great... I'll 
have to really think about that! It means I'd have to sell the Flex 
(I'm already in the process of selling my vintage Drake equipment). 
We'll see!


    Thanks again!

    k WB9FMC

On 3/6/22 09:31, Morgan Bailey wrote:
For me it is all about the RX. What really stands out with the 
FTDX101 is the noise control that it offers. Each button on the rig 
actually does something. And, each something is significant. No 
other rig that I have operated has ever measured up to the 101. I 
really need that advantage of noise control because I live in a city 
on a city lot, with power lines on 3 sides and 3 transformers easily 
visible from my back or front yard. I have electrical noise and that 
coupled with band noise presents quite a problem. The 101 Rx is 
hands down the best. It makes SSB sound like FM. It makes the 
bandpass quiet until an actual signal shows up in it. No roar or 
harsh static is heard.  Once I figured out how I want stuff to 
sound, I hardly touch the buttons or knobs during a contest, other 
than the RIT (Clarifier on Yaesu) and Width controls. I consider 
myself an average contester. I live on a city lot with 68 linear 
feet for antennas. I cover all frequencies from 160 to 2 meters. I 
can run SO2R with ease running 2 radios on any of the 2 coax feeds 
to the switch. Each radio can run 1kw loafing and still not 
interfere with the other...sans other than the direct exact multiple 
harmonic, even still, it is only S7 to S9.


Yes I know everyone complains about the relays. I do not. I grew up 
with open frame relays that cerchunked like motor control stuff in 
an industrial shop. I wear headphones, W1 Inrad, and do not give a 
tinker's damned for QSK. Running SO2R takes QSK off the board. I 
suck at SO2R. Even when I am SO1R, which is 99% of the time, I still 
choose semi breakin and I relax not having to listen to the static 
and noise in between each character. Running 36 to 40 WPM pretty 
much negates QSK so why listen to the noise. Noise fatigue during a 
long contest will wear you out. I found that when I drove 
motorcycles, having loud pipes wore me down. I wore ear plugs all 
the time. Later I found that doing 1k miles a day an easy task only 
after I got rid of the pipes and switched to a much quieter, meaning 
silent exhaust. This again carries over to my experience with radios.


I love the 101 so much, that yes I have 2 of them for SO2R. But for 
Field day, I took one out and had to tear down the station to move 
the radio to Field Day. Well, yes it works well at Field Day but 
also so does an FTDX10. I believe the FTDX10 is the premier radio 
for Field Day conditions. I love it so much that I bought one just 
for Field Day. Again it is 95% of what the 101 is but mainly it does 
not have the VC tune which is a game changer. I feel that the DX10 
will be utilized for many DXpedions based on cost and receiver 
quality being able to be operated in an RF noisy environment with ease.


In closing, I love my FTDX101MP, FTDX101D and FTDX10. Taking them 
out of the box, turning them on, having them work the first time, 
what a joy it is having a finished product that performs like a 
miracle solution for my situation. DVRs that work, are easily run by 
N1MM, Keying memories the same, excellent parametric equalizers for 
transmit Audio, some of the highest average power out on ssb that I 
have ever seen, a great pan display, noise control second to 

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[jerry]

On 2022-03-06 12:54, Kurt Pawlikowski wrote:

Morgan,

    Wow! That's a LOT of very useful information. While my situation
doesn't include an amp, I like your comment about not being able to
"kill" the Mercury III's.


*** I actually ordered one of those.  Or so I thought.  It seems that my 
email
may not have gone through.  Long story, having to do with private email 
servers and reverse DNS.


  I was actually on the fence.  Because I've been working on a homebrew 
project I call the "Medium Linear".  It's a pair of MRF300's.  A 
wraparound cabinet from a Heathkit "Single Bander".  Big heatsink in the 
back with a Noctua fan.  Little touch screen.


  I am already thinking about the next project - a bigger linear.  The 
Medium Linear only does about 350W on SSB with low distortion.I'm 
assured that this is about normal for a pair of MRF300's.  The Bigger 
Linear would use an unusual power supply - a *battery*.  I have a pair 
of Panasonic Lithium Ion battery packs.  Each one is rated about 50V, 
and can source a constant current of 100A.  I would keep it topped up 
with a 50V 20A supply, and should be able to do an honest kilowatt on CW 
and SSB from an ordinary 125VAC socket.


   - Jerry KF6VB
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Morgan,

    Wow! That's a LOT of very useful information. While my situation 
doesn't include an amp, I like your comment about not being able to 
"kill" the Mercury III's. I'll keep that in mind.


    Well, thank you (and everyone else!) for these responses! Now I 
have some thinking to do and a decision to make. If the FTDX-101D really 
can help with my particular noise, that would be great... I'll have to 
really think about that! It means I'd have to sell the Flex (I'm already 
in the process of selling my vintage Drake equipment). We'll see!


    Thanks again!

    k WB9FMC

On 3/6/22 09:31, Morgan Bailey wrote:
For me it is all about the RX. What really stands out with the FTDX101 
is the noise control that it offers. Each button on the rig actually 
does something. And, each something is significant. No other rig that 
I have operated has ever measured up to the 101. I really need that 
advantage of noise control because I live in a city on a city lot, 
with power lines on 3 sides and 3 transformers easily visible from my 
back or front yard. I have electrical noise and that coupled with band 
noise presents quite a problem. The 101 Rx is hands down the best. It 
makes SSB sound like FM. It makes the bandpass quiet until an actual 
signal shows up in it. No roar or harsh static is heard.  Once I 
figured out how I want stuff to sound, I hardly touch the buttons or 
knobs during a contest, other than the RIT (Clarifier on Yaesu) and 
Width controls. I consider myself an average contester. I live on a 
city lot with 68 linear feet for antennas. I cover all frequencies 
from 160 to 2 meters. I can run SO2R with ease running 2 radios on any 
of the 2 coax feeds to the switch. Each radio can run 1kw loafing and 
still not interfere with the other...sans other than the direct exact 
multiple harmonic, even still, it is only S7 to S9.


Yes I know everyone complains about the relays. I do not. I grew up 
with open frame relays that cerchunked like motor control stuff in an 
industrial shop. I wear headphones, W1 Inrad, and do not give a 
tinker's damned for QSK. Running SO2R takes QSK off the board. I suck 
at SO2R. Even when I am SO1R, which is 99% of the time, I still choose 
semi breakin and I relax not having to listen to the static and noise 
in between each character. Running 36 to 40 WPM pretty much negates 
QSK so why listen to the noise. Noise fatigue during a long contest 
will wear you out. I found that when I drove motorcycles, having loud 
pipes wore me down. I wore ear plugs all the time. Later I found that 
doing 1k miles a day an easy task only after I got rid of the pipes 
and switched to a much quieter, meaning silent exhaust. This again 
carries over to my experience with radios.


I love the 101 so much, that yes I have 2 of them for SO2R. But for 
Field day, I took one out and had to tear down the station to move the 
radio to Field Day. Well, yes it works well at Field Day but also so 
does an FTDX10. I believe the FTDX10 is the premier radio for Field 
Day conditions. I love it so much that I bought one just for Field 
Day. Again it is 95% of what the 101 is but mainly it does not have 
the VC tune which is a game changer. I feel that the DX10 will be 
utilized for many DXpedions based on cost and receiver quality being 
able to be operated in an RF noisy environment with ease.


In closing, I love my FTDX101MP, FTDX101D and FTDX10. Taking them out 
of the box, turning them on, having them work the first time, what a 
joy it is having a finished product that performs like a miracle 
solution for my situation. DVRs that work, are easily run by N1MM, 
Keying memories the same, excellent parametric equalizers for transmit 
Audio, some of the highest average power out on ssb that I have ever 
seen, a great pan display, noise control second to none, enough menu 
options that are PLAIN TEXT and easily understood without having to go 
to the manual to look up stuff to decode the led shorthand 
hieroglyphics---for me, Yaesu just hit it out of the park, 
especially when the value for the dollar is considered, NO one, 
absolutely NO one has come remotely close. I make this conclusion 
based on my ears, and my operation ease after having tried, 6500, 
6600, 6600M, 6700, K3S, 7610, 890, 590, 991, 830, Omni6 and many more 
over the years. I played for an hour or so with a 7851 but for the 
, it is not a value for me when the 101 blows it away for my 
station needs.


As for Linear Amps that is a whole different ball of wax. I have had 
many over the years. I have given many the torture test and can tell 
you which ones work and I would trust. But today, if i were to advise 
you to buy an AMP, i would ask a simple question, do you want to run 
FT8? If you run FT8 and want to run power there are very few amps that 
will stand the test. The next question I would ask is do you want a 
tube amp or a transistor amp. Tube amps, at least some of them are far 
more rugged for the dollar. 

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Dave,

    Sorry, my QRZ page is really dated! I'll have to take some time an 
update it! Currently, I'm in an antenna restricted situation (condo) and 
my antenna is a MFJ loop that I wheel out into the parking lot in order 
to operate.


    As far as the radio goes, it seems to work very respectfully. Makes 
me wish I had that vertical! But currently, my biggest problem is noise. 
This radio does seem to mitigate that to some degree. Of course, getting 
DXCC or any other award does require you spend much more time on the air 
than I currently do! {'-)


    k WB9FMC

On 3/6/22 08:49, David Bunte wrote:

Kurt -

If I may add a little more information… my friend with the ‘7851 and 
the K4D is the only person I have told until now… but I recently 
ordered a K4D.


Another friend near me has been using a Flex (6600 or 6400 I don’t 
recall) and it has been driving him nuts… rebooting in the middle of 
contests etc. he just picked up an Icom 7610 from another friend who 
got a K4D.


I also noted on your QRZ page that you have a vertical antenna. Some 
folks knock them but on less than 10 years using one I confirmed 9 
band DXCC, 308 countries and about 1900 toward DXCC Challenge.


Dave - K9FN

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 9:17 AM Kurt Pawlikowski  wrote:

Dave,

 Very interesting and useful experiential info! It's much
appreciated.

 k WB9FMC

On 3/6/22 06:45, David Bunte wrote:
> Kurt -
>
> I am sending this just to you because I don't want to get into the
> middle of a battle over which radio is the best. We are
fortunate that
> there are a LOT of very fine radios from which we can choose.
Clearly
> only you can decide which radio is best for you. I am writing
because
> a very good friend of mine has owned some of the finest. He
currently
> has an IC-7851, which replaced the '7850 he used for many years. He
> bought an Elecraft K3 when they were first introduced. He had
that set
> up next to his '7850 and alternated between them. He thought
they were
> both excellent radios, but preferred the Icom... because the audio
> sounded better on receive. He and I are both CW operators so when
> evaluating rigs phone performance does not matter to us at
all... but
> I preferred his K3 because I use QSK, which was flawless with
the K3.
> About 11 years ago he loaned me his K3/P3 combination when I
installed
> an antenna at my new house. I had been operating mobile for 5 years
> and finally could operate from the comfort of my own shack. I liked
> the k3 so much that at Dayton in 2011 I was made the first
purchase of
> the weekend when I bought my K3 in kit form.
>
> I am still using that radio today. I have made several upgrades and
> have NEVER second-guessed my decision. I now also have the
KPA500 and
> KAT500.
>
> Now, to the heart of my email. My friend bought an FTDX101MP (I
think
> that is the nomenclature) and put it next to his '7851. He used one
> for a week, and then the other for a week... he alternated like
that
> for months. He was very impressed with the radio in many regards...
> but stopped using it because in a few small ways he felt it did not
> measure up to the Icom. The thing I most clearly remember him not
> liking was the noisy relays when operating semi-breakin on CW. I
> played with the radio for just a little bit and could not stand the
> relay noise. The relays in the '7851 don't bother him at all.
Because
> I use full QSK I could not stand the Yeasu and felt the Icom was
only
> a little better. Also... I lived just under 4 miles from him.
When he
> was on the air I could glance at my P3 and knew which radio he was
> using because the CW waveform was wider on the Yaesu... it was
pretty
> good but the Icom was clearly better. When he was using his Icom we
> could be chewing the rag 2 kHz from each other and not even notice
> that the other was on the band. When he used the Yaesu I had to
be at
> least 4 or 5 kHz away.
>
> I have recently moved to a new QTH and am now just under 1.5 miles
> from him. We had a rag chew last Monday on 40 meters. We
exchanged 40
> db over S9 reports, but at 2 kHz away from his new K4D I could have
> had a QSO... although I am pretty sure I could hear slight
evidence of
> when he was transmitting.
>
> I have no idea if any of my meanderings are helpful or not, but for
> me... a CW operator who loves QSK, I have a hard time considering
> anything other than Elecraft.
>
> I wish you the very best as you consider what to do in the future.
>
> 73 de Dave - K9FN
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 10:45 PM Kurt Pawlikowski
 wrote:
>
>     Scott,
>
>      Well, yes: The "numbers" say one thing (or several
things!),
  

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Dave,

    Very interesting and useful experiential info! It's much appreciated.

    k WB9FMC

On 3/6/22 06:45, David Bunte wrote:

Kurt -

I am sending this just to you because I don't want to get into the 
middle of a battle over which radio is the best. We are fortunate that 
there are a LOT of very fine radios from which we can choose. Clearly 
only you can decide which radio is best for you. I am writing because 
a very good friend of mine has owned some of the finest. He currently 
has an IC-7851, which replaced the '7850 he used for many years. He 
bought an Elecraft K3 when they were first introduced. He had that set 
up next to his '7850 and alternated between them. He thought they were 
both excellent radios, but preferred the Icom... because the audio 
sounded better on receive. He and I are both CW operators so when 
evaluating rigs phone performance does not matter to us at all... but 
I preferred his K3 because I use QSK, which was flawless with the K3. 
About 11 years ago he loaned me his K3/P3 combination when I installed 
an antenna at my new house. I had been operating mobile for 5 years 
and finally could operate from the comfort of my own shack. I liked 
the k3 so much that at Dayton in 2011 I was made the first purchase of 
the weekend when I bought my K3 in kit form.


I am still using that radio today. I have made several upgrades and 
have NEVER second-guessed my decision. I now also have the KPA500 and 
KAT500.


Now, to the heart of my email. My friend bought an FTDX101MP (I think 
that is the nomenclature) and put it next to his '7851. He used one 
for a week, and then the other for a week... he alternated like that 
for months. He was very impressed with the radio in many regards... 
but stopped using it because in a few small ways he felt it did not 
measure up to the Icom. The thing I most clearly remember him not 
liking was the noisy relays when operating semi-breakin on CW. I 
played with the radio for just a little bit and could not stand the 
relay noise. The relays in the '7851 don't bother him at all. Because 
I use full QSK I could not stand the Yeasu and felt the Icom was only 
a little better. Also... I lived just under 4 miles from him. When he 
was on the air I could glance at my P3 and knew which radio he was 
using because the CW waveform was wider on the Yaesu... it was pretty 
good but the Icom was clearly better. When he was using his Icom we 
could be chewing the rag 2 kHz from each other and not even notice 
that the other was on the band. When he used the Yaesu I had to be at 
least 4 or 5 kHz away.


I have recently moved to a new QTH and am now just under 1.5 miles 
from him. We had a rag chew last Monday on 40 meters. We exchanged 40 
db over S9 reports, but at 2 kHz away from his new K4D I could have 
had a QSO... although I am pretty sure I could hear slight evidence of 
when he was transmitting.


I have no idea if any of my meanderings are helpful or not, but for 
me... a CW operator who loves QSK, I have a hard time considering 
anything other than Elecraft.


I wish you the very best as you consider what to do in the future.

73 de Dave - K9FN


On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 10:45 PM Kurt Pawlikowski  wrote:

Scott,

 Well, yes: The "numbers" say one thing (or several things!),
but,
like I said, I'm in love with Elecraft... So, yes, I'm prejudiced! Of
course the "top radio (FT-DX101D)" is somewhat more expensive then
the
6400, and does seem to have some nice whistles and bells. Who knows?
Maybe I'll do a switch to Yaesu... {'-)

 k WB9FMC

On 3/5/22 18:46, Scott Manthe wrote:
> Actually, the Yaesu FTDX101D/MP has the best receiver numbers on
> Sherwood's list. That doesn't mean that it's the best radio for
you,
> but the Flex and the K4 aren't "far and away" better receivers than
> anything else in the amateur market. Ironically, Rob seems to
really
> like Icoms...
>
> 73,
> Scott N9AA
>
>
>
> On 3/5/22 7:26 PM, Kurt Pawlikowski wrote:
>> Rich, Et Al,
>>
>>     Thanks for the comments.
>>
>>     Yes, I'm aware that this might bring up some sort of issues
>> people have with the manufactures or personal experience. My
own is
>> that when I was ordering the radio, I could afford the 6400.
But what
>> I was hoping for, maybe in vain, is some information about how the
>> rigs perform comparatively. I know that either of them are
>> far-and-away better receivers than anything else on the amateur
market.
>>
>>     I my situation, I'm up against a lot of noise (live in a
condo).
>> The Flex seems to mitigate some of that. I was hoping that the K4
>> would be at least comparable.
>>
>>     CW delay: Well, I wired my key and headphones directly to the
>> Flex. My control PC would be way too slow to operate CW through it.
>>
>>     Well, I'm not sure which way to go at 

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Scott,

    Well, yes: The "numbers" say one thing (or several things!), but, 
like I said, I'm in love with Elecraft... So, yes, I'm prejudiced! Of 
course the "top radio (FT-DX101D)" is somewhat more expensive then the 
6400, and does seem to have some nice whistles and bells. Who knows? 
Maybe I'll do a switch to Yaesu... {'-)


    k WB9FMC

On 3/5/22 18:46, Scott Manthe wrote:
Actually, the Yaesu FTDX101D/MP has the best receiver numbers on 
Sherwood's list. That doesn't mean that it's the best radio for you, 
but the Flex and the K4 aren't "far and away" better receivers than 
anything else in the amateur market. Ironically, Rob seems to really 
like Icoms...


73,
Scott N9AA



On 3/5/22 7:26 PM, Kurt Pawlikowski wrote:

Rich, Et Al,

    Thanks for the comments.

    Yes, I'm aware that this might bring up some sort of issues 
people have with the manufactures or personal experience. My own is 
that when I was ordering the radio, I could afford the 6400. But what 
I was hoping for, maybe in vain, is some information about how the 
rigs perform comparatively. I know that either of them are 
far-and-away better receivers than anything else on the amateur market.


    I my situation, I'm up against a lot of noise (live in a condo). 
The Flex seems to mitigate some of that. I was hoping that the K4 
would be at least comparable.


    CW delay: Well, I wired my key and headphones directly to the 
Flex. My control PC would be way too slow to operate CW through it.


    Well, I'm not sure which way to go at this time. I like the Flex, 
but I'm "in-love" with Elecraft! Just wish I had a more experiential 
based opinion to consider!


    Thanks all for your comments! I'll keep my eye on this thread...

    k WB9FMC





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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Kurt Pawlikowski]

Rich, Et Al,

    Thanks for the comments.

    Yes, I'm aware that this might bring up some sort of issues people 
have with the manufactures or personal experience. My own is that when I 
was ordering the radio, I could afford the 6400. But what I was hoping 
for, maybe in vain, is some information about how the rigs perform 
comparatively. I know that either of them are far-and-away better 
receivers than anything else on the amateur market.


    I my situation, I'm up against a lot of noise (live in a condo). 
The Flex seems to mitigate some of that. I was hoping that the K4 would 
be at least comparable.


    CW delay: Well, I wired my key and headphones directly to the Flex. 
My control PC would be way too slow to operate CW through it.


    Well, I'm not sure which way to go at this time. I like the Flex, 
but I'm "in-love" with Elecraft! Just wish I had a more experiential 
based opinion to consider!


    Thanks all for your comments! I'll keep my eye on this thread...

    k WB9FMC


On 3/5/22 11:58, Rich Lim wrote:
Hi Kurt, I figured I would reply to you directly as this topic is 
controversial and may get some people’s undies in a bunch!. I have a 
flex 6480 and entire stable of Elecraft rigs from K-1 all the way to 
K3. My K4 is on order and hopefully will be here by the summer.  In my 
estimation, the flex 6400 is a great radio no doubt about it, receiver 
is excellent and as a plus I can work FT8 remotely from work!


The only thing I have bad to say about the flex is that being a CW OP, 
there is a big delay between keying the rig and transmit such that it 
throws me off dramatically in my sending. I’ve resorted to using an 
external keyer otherwise I really can’t work CW aiding the radio 
keyer. Furthermore, it may or may not be a downside to you, but using 
a computer to control all the rig functions to me is less than ideal. 
 I like knobs and a spinning VFO wheel, sure the flex has Maestro but 
who knows when and if that we’ll ever be released.


As far as performance, there is nothing that I could hear on the flex 
that I cannot hear on the K3. I’m contest situations, I think the K 
line has an advantage since you can add crystal filters in the 
superhet stage and prevent receiver overload from nearby stations. 
This would be most important if you are a CW or RTTY operator.


You may want to consider taking a listen to the latest Ham Radio 
Workbench Podcast. Rob Sherwood talks about his receiver list and 
specifically mentions the flex series of radios and Elecraft rigs. 
Bottom line is any of the top 20 radios on his list will work 
fantastic, only if you’re a heavy contester will you notice a difference.


I also has a Yaesu in FTDX 10 and while that radio has a great 
receiver in great DSP, the ergonomics are not great and CW is tedious 
as you cannot run for QSK. I think the bottom line is what you’re most 
comfortable with in terms of  their ergonomics is going to be the most 
important factor unless you are a big time contest operator.


Finally, I’m happy to support both of these companies as they are the 
only two remaining large American ham radio companies. If either go 
down the tube, who is going to push the big three to continue to 
innovate?. I hope this helps you a little bit, and if you wish to 
discuss it further more than happy to do so and feel free to email me 
directly. Take care!

Rich
KQ9L
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 



On Saturday, March 5, 2022, 12:15 AM, Kurt Pawlikowski 
 wrote:


Hi!

    I was wondering whether there is anyone who has done a
side-by-side
comparison between the K4 and the Flex 6400 or any other Flex
"direct to
digital" radio?

    Background: As it happens, I purchased a 6400, which I received
about 9 months ago. I use it with a computer, but I had ordered a
Maestro when I ordered the 6400. Unfortunately, the Maestro is
still on
back-order and will be until some time next year. When I checked with
Elecraft, they said the delay time for a K4 was about 6 months (no, I
won't hold them to that!). So, I'm wondering if it would be worth
jumping to the K4. Mind you, I'm not unhappy with the Flex and,
when I
ordered it I had considered a K4, but it was outside my budget at
that
time. I'm rethinking that decision. Also, I've been an Elecraft
fan for
quite some time. At any rate, I'd like some opinions from
experience and
the only ones I have seen were written before the K4 was
available. So,
a little help would be appreciated! Thanks!

    k WB9FMC

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Brian Denley]

The 6400 is $2000.  

Brian
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 5, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR  wrote:
> 
> Interesting question. The Flex 6700 is close to the top of the list with 
> some sort of updated hardware, while the 6400 is below the original K3, and 
> far below the K3 with the new synthesizer(s).  The difference between the 
> 6700 and  the K3 with new synth is only 1 dB in terms of narrow spaced 
> dynamic range.  Another data-point in favor of holding on to my K3.
> 
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
> web server at .
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
> 
>> On 3/5/2022 9:00 AM, Ian Kahn wrote:
>> Kurt,
>> 
>> A good starting point would be Rob Sherwood's receiver analysis. It can be
>> found at:
>> 
>> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
>> 
>> I'm not sure/aware of anyone who performed direct transmitter comparisons.
>> 
>> 73 de,
>> 
>> Ian, NV4C
>> 
>>> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 1:19 AM Kurt Pawlikowski  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>>  I was wondering whether there is anyone who has done a side-by-side
>>> comparison between the K4 and the Flex 6400 or any other Flex "direct to
>>> digital" radio?
>>> 
>>>  Background: As it happens, I purchased a 6400, which I received
>>> about 9 months ago. I use it with a computer, but I had ordered a
>>> Maestro when I ordered the 6400. Unfortunately, the Maestro is still on
>>> back-order and will be until some time next year. When I checked with
>>> Elecraft, they said the delay time for a K4 was about 6 months (no, I
>>> won't hold them to that!). So, I'm wondering if it would be worth
>>> jumping to the K4. Mind you, I'm not unhappy with the Flex and, when I
>>> ordered it I had considered a K4, but it was outside my budget at that
>>> time. I'm rethinking that decision. Also, I've been an Elecraft fan for
>>> quite some time. At any rate, I'd like some opinions from experience and
>>> the only ones I have seen were written before the K4 was available. So,
>>> a little help would be appreciated! Thanks!
>>> 
>>>  k WB9FMC
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to nv4c@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Interesting question. The Flex 6700 is close to the top of the list with 
some sort of updated hardware, while the 6400 is below the original K3, 
and far below the K3 with the new synthesizer(s).  The difference 
between the 6700 and  the K3 with new synth is only 1 dB in terms of 
narrow spaced dynamic range.  Another data-point in favor of holding on 
to my K3.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at .
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 3/5/2022 9:00 AM, Ian Kahn wrote:

Kurt,

A good starting point would be Rob Sherwood's receiver analysis. It can be
found at:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

I'm not sure/aware of anyone who performed direct transmitter comparisons.

73 de,

Ian, NV4C

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 1:19 AM Kurt Pawlikowski  wrote:


Hi!

  I was wondering whether there is anyone who has done a side-by-side
comparison between the K4 and the Flex 6400 or any other Flex "direct to
digital" radio?

  Background: As it happens, I purchased a 6400, which I received
about 9 months ago. I use it with a computer, but I had ordered a
Maestro when I ordered the 6400. Unfortunately, the Maestro is still on
back-order and will be until some time next year. When I checked with
Elecraft, they said the delay time for a K4 was about 6 months (no, I
won't hold them to that!). So, I'm wondering if it would be worth
jumping to the K4. Mind you, I'm not unhappy with the Flex and, when I
ordered it I had considered a K4, but it was outside my budget at that
time. I'm rethinking that decision. Also, I've been an Elecraft fan for
quite some time. At any rate, I'd like some opinions from experience and
the only ones I have seen were written before the K4 was available. So,
a little help would be appreciated! Thanks!

  k WB9FMC

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[John Simmons]

Take a listen to Rob Sherwood talk about the K4:
https://www.hamradioworkbench.com/podcast/hrwb-149-receiver-performance-with-rob-sherwood


--
73,
-de "Curly" John NI0K in rural Debs, MN USA
Hamshack Hotline: 610271

Ian Kahn wrote on 3/5/2022 8:00 AM:

Kurt,

A good starting point would be Rob Sherwood's receiver analysis. It can be
found at:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

I'm not sure/aware of anyone who performed direct transmitter comparisons.

73 de,

Ian, NV4C

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 1:19 AM Kurt Pawlikowski  wrote:


Hi!

  I was wondering whether there is anyone who has done a side-by-side
comparison between the K4 and the Flex 6400 or any other Flex "direct to
digital" radio?

  Background: As it happens, I purchased a 6400, which I received
about 9 months ago. I use it with a computer, but I had ordered a
Maestro when I ordered the 6400. Unfortunately, the Maestro is still on
back-order and will be until some time next year. When I checked with
Elecraft, they said the delay time for a K4 was about 6 months (no, I
won't hold them to that!). So, I'm wondering if it would be worth
jumping to the K4. Mind you, I'm not unhappy with the Flex and, when I
ordered it I had considered a K4, but it was outside my budget at that
time. I'm rethinking that decision. Also, I've been an Elecraft fan for
quite some time. At any rate, I'd like some opinions from experience and
the only ones I have seen were written before the K4 was available. So,
a little help would be appreciated! Thanks!

  k WB9FMC

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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 Vs. Flex 6400

[Ian Kahn]

Kurt,

A good starting point would be Rob Sherwood's receiver analysis. It can be
found at:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

I'm not sure/aware of anyone who performed direct transmitter comparisons.

73 de,

Ian, NV4C

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 1:19 AM Kurt Pawlikowski  wrote:

> Hi!
>
>  I was wondering whether there is anyone who has done a side-by-side
> comparison between the K4 and the Flex 6400 or any other Flex "direct to
> digital" radio?
>
>  Background: As it happens, I purchased a 6400, which I received
> about 9 months ago. I use it with a computer, but I had ordered a
> Maestro when I ordered the 6400. Unfortunately, the Maestro is still on
> back-order and will be until some time next year. When I checked with
> Elecraft, they said the delay time for a K4 was about 6 months (no, I
> won't hold them to that!). So, I'm wondering if it would be worth
> jumping to the K4. Mind you, I'm not unhappy with the Flex and, when I
> ordered it I had considered a K4, but it was outside my budget at that
> time. I'm rethinking that decision. Also, I've been an Elecraft fan for
> quite some time. At any rate, I'd like some opinions from experience and
> the only ones I have seen were written before the K4 was available. So,
> a little help would be appreciated! Thanks!
>
>  k WB9FMC
>
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-- 
Ian Kahn, NV4C
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
nv4c@gmail.com
10-10 #74624  North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
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