Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)

[Daryl Manning]

Dense poll. I had a question about this format which is what I assume I'd
be using if using org-mode with this on a day-to-day basis if given the
choice.
(from 2. Timestamp with time zone specifier)

 2022-11-12 10:00 @EST+5  # TZ syntax

Normally, when I'm communicating things like standard and daylight savings
time via mail or verbally, I'd use this if writing emails or what have you.
ie. 2023-01-31 10:00 EST (or EDT)

Is the +5 offset in the example from the poll here to disambiguate the EST
from other ESTs (I realize from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations these are not
always unique) or is the idea that someone would have to specify the
timezone offset each entry rather than saying EST or EDT?

thanks,
Daryl.




On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 6:48 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> Greg Minshall  writes:
>
> > just a thought/reminder.  there are "semantics" and "encoding".  a spec
> > like ISO-8601 specifies both.  the important thing for org-mode is to
> > use an encoding that
> >
> > 1. is easily parsable/understandable by the mere mortal
> >
> > 2. allows expression of all the semantics of the underlying spec/specs
> >(be that ISO-8601, this new IETF spec, the Library of Congress spec,
> >etc.)
> >
> > 3. and, importantly, is designed to *try* to follow updates to the
> >underlying spec/specs (which will inevitably happen)
>
> I agree with these three points.
>
> Following the previous discussion and the various links provided, I have
> reviewed the main discussed timestamp standards and would like to
> propose the new Org timestamp syntax that will allow specifying time
> zone information.
>
> I will not follow the standards fully because the available standards
> are not designed to be easily understood by humans. I will also omit
> the ideas from the standards that are unrelated to time stamps (but
> still outline them below, and keep them in mind for
> forward-compatibility). I will, however, try to use the syntax close to
> the standards where possible.
>
> 1. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sedate-datetime-extended/
>proposal is extending ISO8601/RFC3339 with time zone information. In
>addition to UTC offset defined in ISO8601, it allows specifying the
>time zone identifier and auxiliary information.
>
>Examples:
>
>2022-07-08T02:14:07+02:00[Europe/Paris]
>(both offset, and time zone are specified)
>Note that we cannot use "[]" symbols because they are incompatible
>with current timestamp syntax that must not contain closing "]>"
>inside the timestamp.
>
>1996-12-19T16:39:57-08:00[America/Los_Angeles][u-ca=hebrew]
>(preferred calendar is specified in addition to time zone)
>Note: calendar spec is out of scope of time zone discussion - if we
>decide to add it in future, we can simply add new parts to
>timestamps, just like repeater interval and warning period.
>
>Further, the draft proposes an idea, which have also been discussed
>in this thread: making use of redundant UTC offset + time zone
>information to detect possible unexpected changes in time zone rules:
>
>2022-07-08T00:14:07+00:00[!Europe/London]
>("!" identifies that +00:00 offset, if not consistent with
>Europe/London at the timestamp time, must be signalled to user or
>generally not ignored)
>
> 2. https://www.loc.gov/standards/datetime/ does not contain any new
>ideas relevant to time zones, although it has many other ideas wrt
>approximate/incomplete timestamps. I will outline them later, but
>they do not directly affect the proposed new Org timestamp syntax.
>
> |---|
> | The proposed new timestamp syntax |
> |---|
>
> I propose two forms of time zone information in Org timestamps
>
> 1. Timestamp with explicit UTC offset
>
>-MM-DD [optional day name] HH:MM[^ \]>]*?[+-−]HH[MM]?
>-MM-DD [optional day name] HH:MM[^ \]>]*?Z[ \]>]
>
>"-" is latin "HYPHEN-MINUS" (code 0x2D)
>"−" is unicode "MINUS SIGN" (code 0x2212), as prescribed by ISO8601
>we will not actually use it when generating timestamps, but allow it
>to keep some compatibility with ISO standard.
>
>"Z" in the second format refers to "Zulu" time (another name for UTC)
>and must be either the last character in the timestamp or the
>last character before space. Not sure if many users are familiar with
>"Z" convention, but it is (1) in ISO; (2) succinct for users who are
>familiar with it. We will prefer +00 number offset in auto-generated
>timestamps.
>
>Examples:
>2022-11-12 12:00+02 # 12:00 UTC+2
>2022-11-12 14:00+0230 # 14:00 UTC+2:30
>2022-11-12 14:00-0230 # 14:00 UTC-2:30
>2022-11-12 14:00Z # 14:00 UTC
>
>The offset is a subset of what is defined by ISO8601.
>
>Note that unlike ISO8601, ":" is not allowed in the offset specifier.
>This is to disambiguate with the time intervals in Org 

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

All these discussions are really great, devil is in the details and all,
but is anyone working on implementation code for this? It’s tricky to have
visibility on WIP on org-mode - probs just me not knowing where to look tbh
(but big believer that working code is progress… )

Daryl.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 at 13:36, Thomas S. Dye  wrote:

>
> Jean Louis  writes:
>
> > Time offset does not independently exists without time zone.
> > While you
> > represent it without time zone, you have to observe time zone
> > first,
> > before deriving time offset from it.
> >
>
> UTC offset exists without time zone.  UTC is absolute time and
> offsets from it do not refer to political time in a time zone.
> They refer to local *solar time* at a particular place.
>
> > Read from:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC_offset
> >
> > ,
> > | Daylight saving time
> > |
> > | Several regions of the world use daylight saving time (DST)
> > and the
> > | UTC offset during this season is typically obtained by adding
> > one hour
> > | to local standard time. Central European Time UTC+01:00 is
> > replaced by
> > | Central European Summer Time UTC+02:00, and Pacific Standard
> > Time
> > | UTC−08:00 is replaced by Pacific Daylight Time UTC−07:00.
> > `
>
> Your wikipedia citation puts it like this: "The UTC offset (or
> time offset) is an amount of time subtracted from or added to
> Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) time to specify the local solar
> time (which may not be the current civil time, whether it is
> standard time or daylight saving time)."
>
> Note that the quote distinguishes UTC offset from standard time
> and daylight saving time, which refer to time zones.
>
> This distinction between absolute time (solar time) and space/time
> (time zone) is fundamental. Confusing them leads to no good.
>
> hth,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas S. Dye
> https://tsdye.online/tsdye
>

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

Oh wow... this is a great idea. Good idea sending it round. Ought to make
things a bit easier when discussing and avoiding misunderstandings.  =]

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 1:06 PM Sterling Hooten  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Collaborating around the subject of "time" is difficult; there are
> subtleties abound in implementation, the perspectives people come from,
> and the language used in discussions. I'm going to provide a glossary to
> establish common terminology, use these terms to analyze our current
> state, offer a roadmap for solving the problem in stages, suggest a
> format for timestamps, urge compatibility with "exotic" use cases, and
> finally call for outside help with implementing a timezone aware agenda
> system.
>
> Summary and references are at the end.
>
> This is an initial glossary compiled from various standards and sources;
> it's incomplete, probably incorrect, and open to critique, but is useful
> in articulating a possible road map forward.
>
> • Time
>
>   Time (concept)
> What clocks measure (Einstein)
>   Time axis
> Mathematical representation of the succession in time according
> to the space-time model of instantaneous events along a unique
> axis (ISO).
>
>   Instant (object)
> A single point on time axis (ISO).
>   Moment in time
> See: instant.
>   Mark
> A set of symbols related to the object, or carrying some
> symbolic meaning
>   Time scale
> System of ordered marks which can be attributed to instants on
> the time axis , one instant being chosen as the origin. e.g.,
> GMT, UTC, TAI.
>   Basis time
> See: time scale.
>   Time (mark)
> The designation of an instant on a selected time scale, used in
> the sense of time of day.
>   Time interval (object)
> part of the time axis limited by two instants and, unless
> otherwise stated, the limiting instants themselves a part of
> time limited by two instants or moments in time (ISO). The
> elapsed time between two events (NIST).
>   Duration (object)
> as a quantity characterizing a time interval. These can be
> written in different formats.
>   UTC
> Time scale with the same rate as International Atomic Time
> (TAI), but differing from TAI only by an integral number of
> seconds.
>   Offset
> Constant duration difference between times of two time scales
> (ISO). i.e., a quantity to combine with a time scale to produce
> a wall time. e.g., Nepal uses a +5:45 offset from the UTC time
> scale.
>   Time shift
> See: offset.
> • Calendar and civil time
>   Wall time
> what shows on the clock on the wall at a location. Like "local
> system time" but needn't reference a computer to do the
> calculation.
>   Standard time
> Time scale derived from UTC, by a time shift established in a
> given location by the competent authority (ISO).
>   Local system time
> Local system time is determined by applying the system's time
> zone offset and year offset values to UTC. The Time of day
> system value displays the local system time. Local system time
> and system time are used interchangeably.
>   Time Zone
> A place/region. Can map between wall time and a time scale with
> a table and an offset. A set of rules for determining the local
> observed time (wall time) as it relates to incremental time (as
> used in most computing systems) for a particular geographical
> region. e.g., Brasília time presently has an offset of −03:00
> from the UTC time.
>   Calendar event
> A calendar object that is commonly used to represent things that
> mark time or use time. Examples include meetings, appointments,
> anniversaries, start times, arrival times, closing times.
>
> • Implementation These concern how we actually decide to record,
>   reference, or manipulate time.
>   Representation
> Expression indicating a time point, time interval or recurring
> time interval. e.g., [2023-02-02 Thu 12:58 +1w], "this next
> suday at 2pm EST", 3600 seconds from Unix epoch
>   Format
> A description of the abstract form used for a representation.
> e.g., [-MM-DD] 'Explain in prose relative to this moment in
> time using locale and include your timezone'
>   Encoding
> The method of storing a representation of time e.g., datestruct
> in memory, Org timestamp in body of heading, value of a
> "created" key in a database
>   Format syntax
> Rules that allow for parsing a encoding unambiguously into some
> time scale.
>   Timestamp (mark)
> An encoded representation in a selected format. e.g., 24/01/2023
> or 2023-01-24
>   Delimiting syntax
> Rules that allow for detection and extraction of an 

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

I just usually put those in the cal manually, with a date if they have
"unusual" recurrences that can;t be denoted by the standard datestamp
recurrences . =]

Though for religious holidays like Easter and, I imagine, some lunar based
ones, I imagine it might be handy. But honestly, I am surprised people use
them anymore. I certainly have managed to avoid them up to now. They feel
slightly anachronistic (much like putting in dates without timezones... =]
).

D.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 6:36 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > Perhaps a leading question (leading to outrage =p ), but does anybody
> even
> > use those anymore?
> >
> > I don't believe I've used them at all in 5 years of using org-mode (and
> if
> > I did it was most likely because of some arcane older feature which
> > required them).
>
> diary exps is the only available way to limit the number of repetitions
> of an even.
>
> Also, see org-class, which will automatically skips holidays (let's just
> ignore the issue with time zones and holidays, please; just accept the
> limitation)
>
> Some real word examples of diary sexps scheduling in the wild:
> - https://emacs-apac.gitlab.io/ :: <%%(diary-float t 6 4)>
> - https://emacs-berlin.org/ :: <%%(diary-float t 3 -1)>
>
> Finally, religious holidays can be defined and Nth weekday before/after
> month/date.
>
> Some people even use diary sexps exclusively.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
>

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

Perhaps a leading question (leading to outrage =p ), but does anybody even
use those anymore?

I don't believe I've used them at all in 5 years of using org-mode (and if
I did it was most likely because of some arcane older feature which
required them).

Daryl.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 5:57 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> Ihor Radchenko  writes:
>
> > <2023-01-14 Sat 18:22@Asia/Singapore>  (SGD and similar abbreviations
> are often ambiguous)
> > <2023-01-14 Sat 18:22+0800>
> > <2023-01-14 Sat 18:22+08>
> > <2023-01-14 Sat 18:22@+0800>
> > <2023-01-14 Sat 18:22@+08>
>
> One thing we all missed in the discussion is diary sexps.
>
> In particular, "last Sunday of month" <%%(diary-float t 0)> may depend
> on the time zone because the number of days in month may vary.
>
> How can we approach this? What could the format to specify the time zone
> for diary timestamps?
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at .
> Support Org development at ,
> or support my work at 
>

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

I'd argue that setting a specific datestamp  and time for DST would mean
that you expected to meet at that specific time and date as per DST. If the
clocks changed you'd be out of luck (that's where I'd argue you'd use a
non-specified timezone for a meeting that re-occurs at 10:05 regardless of
say PDT or PST).

But if this was an issue with a recurring meeting, then when the clocks
changed someone would be out an hour because they had specifically booked
with DST in mind (note: this is more useful than you think - being in
non-DST countries and having scheduled meetings in DST based countries, a
lot of cal applications get this wrong when what I actually want is for
that DST scheduled meeting to now be reflected in my calendar on the fact
they've switched to ST in their time zone - so shifted an hour.).

But I feel this is something that would be for people who need to take
advantage of this. And, more often than not, is a recurring meeting issue
when DST/ST changes occur.

Daryl.


On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 3:54 AM Robert Horn  wrote:

>
> Ihor Radchenko  writes:
>
> > Robert Horn  writes:
> >
> >>> 1. Time (-MM-DD HH:MM) not continuous and may change arbitrarily at
> >>>certain times a year or in future or in the past:
> >>>- DST transitions are not stable and change from year to year
> >>>  according to strange rules that may involve Julian dates or
> >>>  counting weekdays
> >>>- DST transition rules may change over time
> >>>- The new year day itself is not necessarily fixed (England
> >>>- Julian/Gregorian transitions happened at different times in
> >>>  different countries
> >>
> >> Note that as a result "time when it happened" has different rules than
> >> "future time when it is scheduled".  There are lots of other times that
> are
> >> scheduled as "future local time, subject to changing DST rules".  This
> >> is particularly tricky for repeating times for regularly scheduled
> events.
> >
> > Not really. Countries may change DST at any moment in future. Or decide
> > to switch calendars (consider countries near the day transition line).
> >
> > And "past local time, according to the DST rules in effect at the time"
> > is also an option that might be useful in certain scenarios.
> >
>
> The issue is clarity of the expected rules for the format.  If I
> schedule a meeting for 10:05 DST, but the rules change so that it is not
> DST at that location at that time in the future, what is the expected
> interpretation?  It could be:
>
>  a) the meeting should be at 10:05 ST, because the intent was to meet at
>  10AM in the then local time.
>
>  b) the meeting should be at 11:05 ST, because the time was chosen to
>  correspond to a particular sun angle.
>
> Getting the rules and explanation clear is the issue.  It's a mistake
> that a great many people make with scheduling meetings.  Those two
> behaviors need different encodings because they behave differently.
>
> --
> Robert Horn
> rjh...@alum.mit.edu
>

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

I agree... TZ is optionally defined in a timestamp otherwise understood to
be "local".

I'd just be excited to have us run through the basic use cases and then see
some more "tricky" ones. I imagine there are things we'd just have to
say... too tricky for (eg. flight takes off in one TZ and range allows it
to land in timezone... stuff like that might be tricky.).

So, is the TS syntax you've described accepted and canonical now with
org-mode?

Daryl.



On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 6:39 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > I think timezone you're in should be declared globally, surely?  And then
> > defined in the timestamp?
>
> It is always defined globally on OS level. In POSIX-complaint OSes, it is
> TZ. Emacs obeys POSIX and time zone settings in other OSes. We don't
> need anything special for it.
>
> As for time zone in timestamps - it must be optional. Timestamps with
> time zone will use that time zone. Timestamps without time zone will use
> "default" time zone - be it OS time zone or whatever custom time zone
> setting we come up with in future. This "default" time zone approach is
> both useful for things like "brush teeth in 10pm in the evening" and
> also, more importantly, for backwards compatibility.
>
> > The use cases for per file or even per-heading tz specifying seems very
> low
> > imho (and introducing a lot more complexity.).
>
> Sure. As I mentioned in another message, not having these features should
> not stop us from merging whatever working time zone code we can come up
> with. They will be nice to have though.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
>

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

I think timezone you're in should be declared globally, surely?  And then
defined in the timestamp?

The use cases for per file or even per-heading tz specifying seems very low
imho (and introducing a lot more complexity.).

Daryl.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 6:20 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> Jean Louis  writes:
>
> > * Ihor Radchenko  [2023-01-14 16:23]:
> >> But why do we need any time zone data? All we need to converting from
> >> and to internal Emacs' time representation supplying the correct time
> >> zone to it.
> >
> > When Org file is very personal and location centric, then there is no
> > need for it.
> >
> > When Org file has assigned, shared tasks, and is related to other
> > people in various locations over the world, then it becomes important.
>
> Sorry, I think you misunderstood what I am saying here.
>
> I was referring to a need for Org code to retrieve some kind of
> timezone-specific data other than converting timestamps with time zone to
> and back from the internal time representation.
>
> In another message, I also mentioned an idea of specifying time zone
> globally or per file. Other suggestion was per-heading specification. In
> addition to time zone being specified directly inside the timestamp.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at .
> Support Org development at ,
> or support my work at 
>

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

Hey Ihor,

Sorry, I had a little trouble understanding the way you have the syntax
written in that timestamps doc.

Can you give an example like below? What does it look like?
And say, with a recurring data like once a week and a warning of 5d early?

I believe /most/ people would be looking for something grokable like:
<2023-01-14 Sat 18:22 SGT> or say
<2023-01-14 Sat 18:22 +08>
(tho I imagine the second example would break repeats syntax though)
primarily useful in TODOs etc.

Daryl.









On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 6:18 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> Tim Cross  writes:
>
> > I agree this would be a great feature to add. However, after having
> > looked at it in some detail, I realise that not only is it not a trivial
> > task, it is actually a very large and complex task and will require
> > extensive work which will almost certainly result in breakage with
> > regards to backwards compatibility.
>
> Not really. Our timestamp format, in fact, provides sufficient
> flexibility to add extra metadata to timestamps.
>
> In anticipation to add time zones in future, I have added the following
> to the Org timestamp spec (see
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-syntax.html#Timestamps):
>
> DATE TIME REPEATER-OR-DELAY
>
> TIME (optional)
> An instance of the pattern H:MMREST where H represents a one to two digit
> number (and can start with 0), and M represents a single digit. REST can
> contain anything but \n or closing bracket.
>
> Note that REST imply that almost arbitrary suffix can be in TIME without
> braking the existing Org timestamp parsing code.
>
> REST, among other things may be
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Time_offsets_from_UTC or a valid
> value of TZ POSIX variable. Exact details can be discussed.
>
> Note that TZ should be fully supported by `encode-time' (ZONE):
>
> (SECOND MINUTE HOUR DAY MONTH YEAR IGNORED DST ZONE)
>
> We do not need to worry about internal representation and conversions
> and simply rely on Emacs.
>
> > At the risk of over simplifying the matter, I would suggest the big
> > challenge here is that there are two somewhat competing (and
> > conflicting) use cases. On one hand, you want a high level abstraction
> > which makes working with dates and times easy and clear. TO some extent,
> > that is what we have now. On the other hand, we need something far more
> > complex which is able to handle multiple time zones. This means being
> > able to handle both base timezone offsets as well as offset adjustments
> > for things like daylight savings time. There is a lot of hidden
> > complexity here. You have to handle the fact that daylight saving
> > chang-over dates/times are dynamic i.e. not necessarily the same every
> > year. This adds the additional complexity of having to somehow track
> > historical information regarding such changes, which isn't as readily
> > accessible in a consistent manner on all platforms.
>
> We do not care about the details as long as Emacs can handle this. As
> long as the user supplies DST and ZONE somehow, we can rely on Emacs'
> support and system TZ implementation.
>
> > Then there is the other 'messy' stuff. For example, when calculating
> > time ranges and number of days, hours/ minutes between two dates you
> > need to remember to add/remove the hour if the range crosses over a
> > daylight savings period. Similarly you need to ensure you make the
> > correct adjustment when changing timezones (consider emacs on a laptop
> > for someone who travels a lot between different time zones). Not only do
> > you need to take into account the different timezone offset, you also
> > need to look at the date and then adjust according to the timezone
> > offset for the current timezone at the time of the timestamp rather than
> > just considering the current time offset.
>
> Again, we don't need to worry about this. Once we use `encode-time',
> operations on time should just work. This is what we do anyway in most
> of Org code.
>
> > I expect what is needed is an 'internal' UTC based representation which
> > is used for all calculations and an 'interface' layer, which converts
> > the UTC representation into the local display representation for
> > consumption by humans.
>
> This is what we already to via `encode-time' and `decode-time'.
> Check out `org-time-string-to-time'.
>
> > However, the real challenge here is that this is a very large piece of
> > work and it needs someone who is prepared to take it on. I suspect until
> > someone who needs to scratch this itch sufficiently comes along, this is
> > a feature which will be unlikely to make it to the top of the todo
> > list. There are simply far too many existing feature improvements and
> > additions people will prefer to work on before taking on this
> > one. Things are made more difficult because it isn't the sort of task
> > which can be achieved with small increments over time. This is more
> > likely to be something which needs to be developed in a feature branch,
> > which once it 

Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

I agree this is perhaps not a trivial undertaking. It really depends on the
quality of date and time libraries that exist in the lisp ecosystem. For
example, in Rust I found my timezone woes in one of my own apps were
trivial due to the chronos package, but likewise the reliance of Go
depending on its underlying time and date type actually introduced a weird
timezone and DST bug in my own app.

Is/are there lisp packages which handle the complexity involved in time and
date difference calculations and DST changes? That would perhaps be the
first question. It makes things tremendously easier and would reduce much
of the work (perhaps to just the argument of the format and parsing the
datetime stamp and making org-agenda aware of which timezone it's in.).

To Jean Louis' point: using timestamps without timezones is a don't in much
of computing these days and perhaps hearkens back to the simpler age emacs
and org originated in.  =]  (kidding!).

My lips-fu is not adequate to taking this on myself so the issue of who
would want ot work on it over other features is perhaps the bigger
question. Could someone scope out the work and approach at least. I imagine
it is tricky and non-trivial, but perhaps less complex if good libraries
exist as above.

I'd simply make the timezone format a slowly to be evolved to standard over
time with exceptions as noted in my first note. not having tz in timestamps
was a "assume local" assumption and under-specification (or considered
"hidden".).

Daryl.


On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 8:34 PM Tim Cross  wrote:

>
> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > Following on from thread at
> https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode/comments/zrppqw/
> >
> > [First off, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that works on
> org-mode. It is a wonder.]
> >
> > While I realize a few kicks at this can may have been taken, I wanted to
> (re-)propose Timezone support in org-mode. The
> > world is much less local these days and we're all more remote and
> coordinating globally these days.
> >
> > *Background*
> >
> > 1. org-time-stamp-formats TZ currently only affects display and exports
> > 2. org-agenda itself is not TZ aware
> > 3. Several discussions on this have taken place over time
> > 4. Concerns raise included breaking backwards compatibility
> >
> > *Proposal*
> >
> > 1. org-mode sets an optional variable (org-timezone-aware t) which
> enables TZ
> > 2. org-agenda needs a way to determine which timezone it is in
> > 3. Once enabled, any timestamp not exhibiting a TZ in it is considered
> "local time" wherever that is (I do not think UTC
> > would work for this)
> > 4. org-agenda can calc local based on TZ differences
> >
> > I understand this is by no means trivial and quite gnarly with DST and
> such to figure out but I do believe libs exists to
> > deal with that heavy lifting. Currently, it does feel like a hole in
> org-mode as a 21st century organizer (disclaimer:
> > digital nomading so might feel it more keenly). Also, just interested in
> making org-mode a more awesome tool for
> > everybody.
> >
> > I'd love an understanding of the alluded to reservations raised in the
> reddit thread and in the mailing list threads
> > mentioned that the format change might break things (I was unsure if
> that was referring to say, how time ranges were
> > handled, or how say date ranges got dealt with (for example, say a
> flight from Singapore to Vancouver which takes off in
> > one time zone and lands in another - something that is often in my
> cal.).
> >
>
> I agree this would be a great feature to add. However, after having
> looked at it in some detail, I realise that not only is it not a trivial
> task, it is actually a very large and complex task and will require
> extensive work which will almost certainly result in breakage with
> regards to backwards compatibility.
>
> At the risk of over simplifying the matter, I would suggest the big
> challenge here is that there are two somewhat competing (and
> conflicting) use cases. On one hand, you want a high level abstraction
> which makes working with dates and times easy and clear. TO some extent,
> that is what we have now. On the other hand, we need something far more
> complex which is able to handle multiple time zones. This means being
> able to handle both base timezone offsets as well as offset adjustments
> for things like daylight savings time. There is a lot of hidden
> complexity here. You have to handle the fact that daylight saving
> chang-over dates/times are dynamic i.e. not necessarily the same every
> year. This adds the additional complexity of having to somehow track
> historical information regarding such changes, 

[FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda

[Daryl Manning]

Following on from thread at
https://www.reddit.com/r/orgmode/comments/zrppqw/

[First off, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that works on
org-mode. It is a wonder.]

While I realize a few kicks at this can may have been taken, I wanted to
(re-)propose Timezone support in org-mode. The world is much less local
these days and we're all more remote and coordinating globally these days.

*Background*

1. org-time-stamp-formats TZ currently only affects display and exports
2. org-agenda itself is not TZ aware
3. Several discussions on this have taken place over time
4. Concerns raise included breaking backwards compatibility

*Proposal*

1. org-mode sets an optional variable (org-timezone-aware t) which enables
TZ
2. org-agenda needs a way to determine which timezone it is in
3. Once enabled, any timestamp not exhibiting a TZ in it is considered
"local time" wherever that is (I do not think UTC would work for this)
4. org-agenda can calc local based on TZ differences

I understand this is by no means trivial and quite gnarly with DST and such
to figure out but I do believe libs exists to deal with that heavy lifting.
Currently, it does feel like a hole in org-mode as a 21st century organizer
(disclaimer: digital nomading so might feel it more keenly). Also, just
interested in making org-mode a more awesome tool for everybody.

I'd love an understanding of the alluded to reservations raised in the
reddit thread and in the mailing list threads mentioned that the format
change might break things (I was unsure if that was referring to say, how
time ranges were handled, or how say date ranges got dealt with (for
example, say a flight from Singapore to Vancouver which takes off in one
time zone and lands in another - something that is often in my cal.).

thanks!
Daryl.

Re: In-Buffer LaTeX previews in org-mode

[Daryl Manning]

Wow, I had not even run across this one being mentioned before (nor did I
get joy on it from googling.).

Will try it in between meetings today and see if it works. Will report back
to group. Thanks for the pointer!

Daryl.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:42 PM Martin Schöön 
wrote:

> Fragtog?
> https://github.com/io12/org-fragtog
>
> Disclaimer: I have not managed to get it to work but then I have not tried
> very hard.
>
> /Martin
>

In-Buffer LaTeX previews in org-mode

[Daryl Manning]

Having flirted with Notion and Roam over the holidays I am trying to find a
way to steal some of the nicer features there for my org-mode/org-roam
setup. Use case: Formulas.

What's state of art these days for "reading over notes" use cases (not
necessarily publishing papers) for getting complex formulas (and I"m fine
with LaTeX to describe them) to display in-buffer in org-mode?

Notion (and Roam) use a simple `$$LaTeX$$` double $$ delimiters in their
markdown-flavoured markup to transform formulas into a rendered line and,
in the case of Notion, an "Equation block" which is a larger more visible
double-ish-size block (which is really nice and aesthetically great when
you're reading over notes tbh).

I've seen `magic-latex-buffer` (though it seems not to support conventions
like `\over` - critical for some astro and physics formulas I take notes
on), and have also seen the interesting work on `webkit-ketex-render` which
is amazing but want something persistent rather than on rollover (and was
not in melpa so still wrestling it). I've also seen some people render an
image and drop that in-note (osx hates this), but that seems, well...
kludgey.

Is there a way to achieve this nicely and in an on-the-fly fashion? It's a
fairly new need for me, but googling on this has been rabbit-hole of
various approaches without a clear winner, so curious as to what proper
researchers or academics who may be using emacs and I assume also need to
render this stuff in-buffer are doing.

thanks,
Daryl.

Re: Accounting WAS Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 179, Issue 4

[Daryl Manning]

I do not use ledger within org-mode bit use a combo of libraries to make
ledger entries *look* and act like org-mode with folding. I find this work
(for me) much better than trying to mess with babel and having inline
ledger (basically, I treat my ledger file as a... ahem... ledger... I track
personal, budget, stock portfolio this way. It's very flexible and way way
better than using Quicken which does find with my Canuck accounts, but
cannot integrate my SG bank or stock broker.).

So I use `ledger-mode` directly configured like this in my init.el

```
;; == Ledger mode =
(use-package ledger-mode
  :ensure t
  :defer t
  :hook
  (ledger-mode . outline-minor-mode)
  :bind
  (:map ledger-mode-map
("TAB" . org-cycle))
  :config
  (font-lock-add-keywords 'ledger-mode outline-font-lock-keywords)
  :mode
  ("\\.ledger$" . ledger-mode)
  )

This also allows stars to deliineate hierarchy in the ledger and then fold
and unfold like an org doc. Super handy.

So, in one pane on my screen I have the ledger open (the tricky thing is
always setting up accounts and opening balances though there are some nice
tutorials for setting those up (if you have multiple currencies, *do* set
up accounts by currency early

eg.  Assets:CAD:Bank of Montreal
   Assets:SGD:OCBC
and for Liabilities like Credit Cards, lines of credit etc as well

The nice thing about this is you can have the ledger buffer open in one
panel and use C-{COR} for pulling up a balance report in the other pane
which automatically balances when you save the ledger file.

Also, in practical terms for day to day, rather than input things manually,
I highly recommend downloading csvs (or similar formats) from your bank and
using the ruby gem `reckon` which is a bayesian predictor that will learn
from your ledger on how to expense your bank account entries and then write
out the ledger file for you. Super handy.

Overly long blog post here:
https://daryl.wakatara.com/tracking-your-finances-with-reckon-and-ledger/
to get you goin if it's not just a formatting thing.

It also has some suggestions for category setups and the like.

Ledger is a bit steep to get started with but once you've got it setup it
does not require much time (especially with reckon) and is way more
flexible than something like Quicken if you have a complex financial life.

Anyhow, you do need to vinset a little time, but I have to admit I am
pretty impressed with it.

As someone else noted, you can also take a look at beancount, though I
personally still prefer the emacs integration available in ledger.

Hope this helped!

ciao !
Daryl.
PS> Even outside of emacs, I'd personally love to see people build some
more tools on top of the ledger format. I keep wanting to take a shot at
some portfolio tools, but never seem to be able to fit in the time.  =]


On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:01 AM  wrote:

>
>   19. accounting (Uwe Brauer)
>   20. Re: accounting (Eric S Fraga)
>   21. Re: Org to ConTeXt exporter? (Ludovic Courtès)
>   22. Re: accounting (Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide)
>   23. Re: ob-haskell (Leo)
>   24. Re: accounting (Daniele Nicolodi)
>   25. Re: accounting (Uwe Brauer)
>   26. Re: accounting (Charles Millar)
>   27. Re: accounting (Eric S Fraga)
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2021 09:54:00 +0100
> From: Uwe Brauer 
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: accounting
> Message-ID: <87ble56q1j@mat.ucm.es>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
> Hi
>
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-ledger.html
>
> Points out how to use ledger within org mode.
>
> Is there any simpler solution?
>
> Regards
>
> Uwe Brauer
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2021 09:31:58 +
> From: Eric S Fraga 
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: accounting
> Message-ID: <871rf1m4j5@ucl.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> On Monday,  4 Jan 2021 at 09:54, Uwe Brauer wrote:
> > Points out how to use ledger within org mode.
> > Is there any simpler solution?
>
> How do you wish it to be simpler?  What is it you wish to do?
> --
> : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.4.4-166-g291993
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2021 11:19:50 +0100
> From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" 
> To: Uwe Brauer 
> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: accounting
> Message-ID: <87o8i5t35l@web.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Uwe Brauer  writes:
>
> > https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-ledger.html
> >
> > Points out how to use ledger within org mode.
> >
> > Is there any simpler solution?
>
> Do you mean simpler accounting in org-mode, or do you mean simpler
> ledger-integration?
>
> You can always tangle your ledger-data and use a ledger commandline
> client. Also Emacs has direct support for ledger. Here’s a setup via
> use-package:
>
> (use-package ledger-mode :ensure t :defer 20
>   :config
>   

Re: org-mode time tracking setup integrating with SaaS (Harvest, Toggl, Bonsai etc)

[Daryl Manning]

Very impressive. I am probably going to steal some of these functions.
Thank you.

Is the process you use to get this into jira (via clocktable) automatedx in
any way (even copy/paste) or do you have to put things in manually again?

Daryl.


On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 5:21 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > Has anyone run across a good integration for doing that or has a blog
> post
> > on their system particularly where they need to track hours/tasks across
> a
> > few clients and projects for consultancy purposes
>
> I don’t do consultancy, but we I need to book for multiple projects at
> work. I track my time and projects with org-mode (and found that
> whenever I think “this is so small, I don’t need an org-headline for
> this”, time gets out of hand). At the end of the week I then book my
> time on the corresponding Jira issues using the clocktable in
> agenda-view.
>
> These are my essential customizations for that:
>
> (use-package org-agenda
>   :defer 8
>   :custom
>   (alert-default-style 'libnotify)
>   (appt-disp-window-function 'alert-for-appt)
>   (appt-delete-window-function (lambda ()))
>   (org-agenda-clock-consistency-checks
>(quote
> (:max-duration "12:00" :min-duration 0 :max-gap "0:05" :gap-ok-around
>("4:00" "12:00")
>:default-face
>((:background "DarkRed")
> (:foreground "white"))
>:overlap-face nil :gap-face nil :no-end-time-face nil
> :long-face nil :short-face nil)))
>   (org-agenda-clockreport-parameter-plist (quote (:link t :maxlevel 2
> :properties ("Effort"
>   (org-agenda-start-with-clockreport-mode t)
>   :config
>   ;; Rebuild the reminders everytime the agenda is displayed
>   (add-hook 'org-agenda-finalize-hook (lambda () (org-agenda-to-appt t)))
>   ;; Run once when Emacs starts
>   (org-agenda-to-appt t)
>   ;; Activate appointments so we get notifications
>   (appt-activate t))
>
> (defun my/org-agenda-show-kanban ()
>   (interactive)
>   (save-excursion
> (search-forward ":KANBAN:")
> (org-agenda-goto)
> (org-narrow-to-subtree)
> (show-all)
> (fit-window-to-buffer)
> (widen)
> (recenter-top-bottom 0)))
>
> ;; KDE: show custom agenda with kanban via f12:
> (with-eval-after-load 'org
>   (setq org-agenda-custom-commands
> '(("o" "Agenda and TODOs"
>((agenda)
> (tags-todo "-notodo" ((org-agenda-block-separator ?-)))
> (tags "KANBAN" ((org-agenda-block-separator
> ?-)(org-agenda-compact-blocks nil)(org-agenda-overriding-header "")))
>
> ;; from https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/TransposeWindows solution by
> Robert Bost
> (defun rotate-windows (arg)
>   "Rotate your windows; use the prefix argument to rotate the other
> direction"
>   (interactive "P")
>   (if (not (> (count-windows) 1))
>   (message "You can't rotate a single window!")
> (let* ((rotate-times (prefix-numeric-value arg))
>(direction (if (or (< rotate-times 0) (equal arg '(4)))
>   'reverse 'identity)))
>   (dotimes (_ (abs rotate-times))
> (dotimes (i (- (count-windows) 1))
>   (let* ((w1 (elt (funcall direction (window-list)) i))
>  (w2 (elt (funcall direction (window-list)) (+ i 1)))
>  (b1 (window-buffer w1))
>  (b2 (window-buffer w2))
>  (s1 (window-start w1))
>  (s2 (window-start w2))
>  (p1 (window-point w1))
>  (p2 (window-point w2)))
> (set-window-buffer-start-and-point w1 b2 s2 p2)
> (set-window-buffer-start-and-point w2 b1 s1 p1)))
>
>
> (defun agenda-and-todo ()
>   (interactive)
>   (org-agenda nil "o")
>   (delete-other-windows)
>   (my/org-agenda-show-kanban)
>   (rotate-windows 1))
> ;;  systemsettings shortcuts: map f12 to
> ;;emacsclient -e '(progn (show-frame)(agenda-and-todo))'
> (global-set-key (kbd "") 'agenda-and-todo)
>
> ;; KDE: record new issue with M-f12 (alt f12):
> ;;  systemsettings shortcuts: map alt f12 to
> ;;emacsclient -e '(progn (show-frame)(org-capture))'
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-") 'org-capture)
>
> ;; clock into the current task via S-f12 (shift f12). rationale: shift
> ;; is used to shift from one task to another without clocking out.
> (global-set-key (kbd "S-") 'org-clock-in)
>
> ;; KDE: glob

org-mode time tracking setup integrating with SaaS (Harvest, Toggl, Bonsai etc)

[Daryl Manning]

I'm just setting up a new time tracking system and have in the past used
Harvest to track and bill clients.

With emacs clocking and calendaring, I was actually hoping to find some way
to have it interface/export with one of the SaaS systems and effectively
allow me to track time in emacs but then get data into one of those systems
(effectively for presentation, and invoicing and such.).

Has anyone run across a good integration for doing that or has a blog post
on their system particularly where they need to track hours/tasks across a
few clients and projects for consultancy purposes (or a roll your own would
be an interesting start though I do like the SaaS systems' invoicing and
payments and such.).

thanks!
Daryl.

Re: Improving org-contacts performance (and state of development in general)

[Daryl Manning]

Primary examples would be adding a note (CTRL-z) or changing a tag on a
person and then having org-agenda update that. I am assuming it is because
the entire file needs to be parsed rather than say, some index of entries.

(so perhaps I mischaracterized org-contacts as being slow versus its
interaction with other programs.)

(for search I use swiper which is very efficient for searching the file
whenI need it.).

tho quite interested in seeing what perf enhancements you've done on large
org files would be interesting.

Daryl.
PS> As an outside feature though, interoperability of the org-contact
formats with other operating system address books, most notable gnome
contacts/evolution, goog contacts, and OSX address book would be high on my
list in terms of improving org-contacts though. (eg, raw, structued info in
all address books, and say perhaps notes or similar maintained and synced
in ome manner.



On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> > However, as the file and C-z notes have grown,
> > performance has really started to drag. I know people have used various
> > schemes (caching) etc to try to improve performance and the like, but
> > updates to the file are taking a solid 5 seconds now when making major
> > updates and moving tags around.
>
> Could you provide some examples what exactly is being slow?
> Maybe my WIP work on improving performance on large org files [1] might
> help.
>
> Best,
> Ihor
>
> [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-orgmode@gnu.org/msg127740.html
>
>
> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > Strangely, I've come to rely over the last year on org-contacts as a
> > lightweight, taggable CRM. However, as the file and C-z notes have grown,
> > performance has really started to drag. I know people have used various
> > schemes (caching) etc to try to improve performance and the like, but
> > updates to the file are taking a solid 5 seconds now when making major
> > updates and moving tags around.
> >
> > Is there a solid, forked branch anywhere that focuses on enhancing
> > performance anywhere? I'm tempted to wade in and add features and
> > improvements myself but my elisp-fu is dodgy at best (more golang these
> > days.).
> >
> > I'd be interested in what people are doing to speed it up (and if it is
> > under anything like active development for improvements. It does feel
> super
> > handy, and feels like it just needs a performance and more modern
> features
> > overhaul - more on interoperability and less on in-emacs
> interoperability.).
> >
> > Would love to hear what people have done overall workflow wise if they
> are
> > using it seriously.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Daryl.
>

Improving org-contacts performance (and state of development in general)

[Daryl Manning]

Strangely, I've come to rely over the last year on org-contacts as a
lightweight, taggable CRM. However, as the file and C-z notes have grown,
performance has really started to drag. I know people have used various
schemes (caching) etc to try to improve performance and the like, but
updates to the file are taking a solid 5 seconds now when making major
updates and moving tags around.

Is there a solid, forked branch anywhere that focuses on enhancing
performance anywhere? I'm tempted to wade in and add features and
improvements myself but my elisp-fu is dodgy at best (more golang these
days.).

I'd be interested in what people are doing to speed it up (and if it is
under anything like active development for improvements. It does feel super
handy, and feels like it just needs a performance and more modern features
overhaul - more on interoperability and less on in-emacs interoperability.).

Would love to hear what people have done overall workflow wise if they are
using it seriously.

thanks,
Daryl.

Canonical howto and init.el config for org-protocol and org-capture on OSX Catalina?

[Daryl Manning]

I've gone over a couple of older (and a newer) walkthroughs of how
org-protocol is supposed to work with a browser (firefox in my case) and
javascript bookmarklet to allow capture of info to emacs (27.0.91 from the
emacs-plus homebrew install) in my case.

None of them has seemed to work, I do know that a number of security
changes in Catalina might have broken or made this difficult, but does
anyone have this working in a reliable, smooth way? Mostly for me I want to
be able to capture email urls from gmail to have a ref for todos I've
creating though being able to save snipper from web pages and such would be
nice as well.

thanks (and apologies if my search fu simply let me down here, but I did
try 3 different instructions).

Daryl.

Re: Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 171, Issue 30

[Daryl Manning]

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:01 AM  wrote:

> Send Emacs-orgmode mailing list submissions to
> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>
> --
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 07:11:08 -0400
> From: Matt Price 
> Cc: emacs-orgmode 
> Subject: Re: Improving Org Mode for VSCode - Thinking Aloud
> Message-ID:
>  tpbgzx70_hdu3_hkrjrnbuf29ct...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>

Yes, the VS Code org-mode extension is around, but it's still pretty
bare-bones in terms of overall functionality.
(also, for the jupyter comments, I think the MS Python plugin for VS Code
already includes being able to
use and run jupyter notebooks directly from VS Code already though unsure
if you can connect that
to something like GCP's Cloud Datalab or similar remote jupyter servers
rather than localhost)

For me, the grail would be getting org-agenda and deft working inside VS
Code. Those were the gateway
drugs that had me switch from Sublime Text to Emacs in the first place...
=]

ciao!
Daryl.

There are a number of interesting topics here. Like others, I would be very
> keen to share my org-based projects with non-Emacs users. I also only have
> very limited time & skills to contribute.  There is an existing extension
> for org-mode on vscode here:
> https://github.com/vscode-org-mode/vscode-org-mode.  That might be the
> best
> place to help out. One piece of low-hanging fruit would be simply to add an
> HTML renderer to that plugin (https://github.com/orgapp/orgajs is the
> obvious choice). A full-on literate programming engine seems like a very
> tough thing to engineer, but perhaps it's possible to imagine a new
> architecture in which there are, as you suggest, various code
> interpretation engines. It's an exciting idea; I wonder if it's possible to
> explore the possibilities in a more concrete and structured way?
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 4:20 PM rey-coyrehourcq <
> sebastien.rey-coyrehou...@univ-rouen.fr> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Really cool discussion here.
> >
> > My two cents, Jupyter & Kernel on various langage, which have a very
> > large community, could be an interesting backend for org-babel on
> > VSCode or anyeditoryouwantusehere.
> >
> > Lot of things start to appear to collaborate online around
> > online/scientific cnotebook/literate programing this last year, and that
> > continue, for example i discover recently :
> > Stencila : https://github.com/stencila=
> >
> > org-babel / org-mode outside of emacs has a great potential to lead an
> > alternative to other markdown (RStudio / Jupyter) solution.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Le dimanche 24 mai 2020 à 06:06 -0700, Jack Kamm a écrit :
> > > It would be very good indeed for org-babel if it could be ported to
> > > other editors. One of the biggest drawbacks of org-babel notebooks is
> > > that I can't collaborate with my colleagues on them, since I can't
> > > expect them to use Emacs.
> > >
> > > Aside from VSCode, I think RStudio would be an excellent target for a
> > > few reasons:
> > >
> > > - Literate programming is already popular among R users (see also:
> > >   knitr, sweave, Rmarkdown)
> > > - There is a strong ob-R community here
> > > - There are some prominent Emacs users among the Rstudio developers
> > >   (e.g. Lionel Henry, who I think is both an Rstudio and ESS
> > > developer)
> > >
> > > However, this would be a massive undertaking, and ultimately would
> > > need
> > > a volunteer to step up to the plate. I don't have any bandwidth to do
> > > this in the foreseeable future but dream of working on it one day.
> > > The
> > > biggest downside -- it would require spending considerable time
> > > outside
> > > Emacs!
> > >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Sébastien Rey-Coyrehourcq
> > Research Engineer UMR IDEES
> > 02.35.14.69.30
> >
> > {Stronger security for your email, follow EFF tutorial :
> > https://ssd.eff.org/}
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: Inserting org-mode heading links the org-refile way

[Daryl Manning]

This looks impressive, and is *similar* to the effect I am going for, but
what I am looking at is intercepting the `org-insert-link` functionality
(or replacing it) with the ability to insert a link from the global
filter-and-select interface via ivy for `org-refile`. So, in other words,
global access to the (say 3 levels down) headings and files available
through the ivy interface (which further allows me to filter that down).

This would give me the ability to arbitrarily add links across all files
(and particularly handy with org-contact for adding in links in cal entries
for meetings).  Since the viy interface seems to work fine for refiling
tasks (except for initial load of refile targets), it seems it'd be
sufficiently performant.

Daryl.


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 1:14 PM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:

> If I understand you correctly, the following code should achieve what
> you want. The code reuses org-refile interface to complete id: links.
>
> (defun org-id-prompt-id ()
>   "Prompt for the id during completion of id: link."
>   (let ((org-refile-history nil)
> (org-refile-cache nil)
> (org-refile-target-verify-function nil))
> (let ((prompt-ans (org-refile-get-location "Select org entry")))
>   (prog1
>   (or (org-id-get (seq-find #'markerp
> prompt-ans)
>   'create)
>   (user-error "Cannot find ID of the entry: %s" prompt-ans))
> (setq org-id-history org-refile-history)
> (setq org-id-cache org-refile-cache)
>
>
> (defun org-id-link-complete ( arg)
>   "Completion function for id: link."
>   (let* ((id (org-id-prompt-id)))
> (format "id:%s" id)))
>
> (defun org-id-link-desk (link desk)
>   "Description function for id: link."
>   (or desk
>   (let ((id (cadr (split-string link ":"
> (org-with-point-at (org-id-find id 'marker)
>   (org-get-heading 'strip 'all 'the 'extra)
>
> (org-link-set-parameters "id"
>  :complete #'org-id-link-complete
>  :desk #'org-id-link-desk)
>
>
>
> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > I use ivy and org-refile to process my inbox.org file hyper-efficiently
> and
> > get things into my GTD system.
> >
> > In a recent discussion on org-roam (which nicely links to files in a nice
> > wiki-like manner) it occurred to me if I had a similar interface to
> search
> > for headlines in the manner of org-refile and then insert them
> effortlessly
> > without having to switch to a doc and copy/store them and then switching
> > back to my doc and inserting them, I'd be a happy camper.
> >
> > Is there a package/functions that does/do that in some fashion (say
> > configurable to avoid link sprawl so say, like 3 heading levels down and
> to
> > files in specific directories like deft). Googling did not give joy,
> though
> > I noticed someone had used a similar approach for addressing link
> *within*
> > a document, but not quite there (swiper and worf combo and an ivy-org-ref
> > package looked interesting).
> >
> > (I always worry when I post these questions that someone is going to just
> > say "but did you not know about M-x org-insert-link-like-ivy-with-refile"
> > so go gentle on me if I've missed something obvious. It seems I often do.
> > This weekend in particular I've added on a whole bunch of small but in
> the
> > aggregate, large productivity improvements to my emacs setup which I
> > approached solving the wrong way until I asked and someone mentioned
> > another way to do things, so ).
> >
> > thanks,
> > Daryl.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko,
> PhD,
> Center for Advancing Materials Performance from the Nanoscale (CAMP-nano)
> State Key Laboratory for Mechanical Behavior of Materials, Xi'an Jiaotong
> University, Xi'an, China
> Email: yanta...@gmail.com, ihor_radche...@alumni.sutd.edu.sg
>

Re: Tricking org-mode into using markdown conventions

[Daryl Manning]

This looks great (your elisp-fu is impressive) and definitely fulfills
making it look markdown-ish. Thanks! Will plug it in tonight and take it
for a pain.

I am assuming though, from the lack of answers back, that there appears to
be no way to have org-mode grok markdown code blocks (triple backticks)
when it parses as a substitute for `#+BEGIN_SRC` ?

Daryl.


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Diego Zamboni  wrote:

> Ihor,
>
> Awesome, thanks for the tip. Using your code, the following config (inside
> the code from https://pank.eu/blog/pretty-babel-src-blocks.html) produces
> a display with the backticks instead of begin/end_src:
>
>   (defun yant/str-to-glyph (str)
> "Transform string into glyph, displayed correctly."
> (let ((composition nil))
>   (dolist (char (string-to-list str)
> (nreverse (cdr composition)))
> (push char composition)
> (push '(Br . Bl) composition
>
>   (defun rasmus/org-prettify-symbols ()
> (mapc (apply-partially 'add-to-list 'prettify-symbols-alist)
>   (cl-reduce 'append
>  (mapcar (lambda (x) (list x (cons (upcase (car
> x)) (cdr x
>  `(("#+begin_src" . ,(yant/str-to-glyph
> "```")) ;; ⎡ ➤  ➟ ➤ ✎
>("#+end_src"   . ,(yant/str-to-glyph
> "```")) ;; ⎣ ✐
>("#+header:" . ,rasmus/ob-header-symbol)
>("#+begin_quote" . ?«)
>("#+end_quote" . ?»)
> (turn-on-prettify-symbols-mode)
> (add-hook 'post-command-hook 'rasmus/org-prettify-src t t))
>
> It looks like this in my config (the bars hide the header arguments):
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> --Diego
>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:19 AM Ihor Radchenko  wrote:
>
>> > I did a quick test, and it seems
>> > that =prettify-symbols-alist= (which is what this code uses) can only
>> > replace for a single character, so I was not able to make it display
>> > the three backticks, but there might be other techniques that can be
>> > used.
>>
>> Yes, there is another technique.
>> See part of my config below:
>>
>>
>>   (defun yant/str-to-glyph (str)
>> "Transform string into glyph, displayed correctly."
>> (let ((composition nil))
>>   (dolist (char (string-to-list str)
>> (nreverse (cdr composition)))
>> (push char composition)
>> (push '(Br . Bl) composition
>>
>>   (append pretty-symbol-patterns
>> `(((yant/str-to-glyph " ") org-specific ,(format
>> "^\\(\\*\\{%d,%d\\}\\)\\*[^*]" (1- org-inlinetask-min-level) (1-
>> org-inlinetask-max-level)) (org-mode) 1)
>>   ((yant/str-to-glyph "⇒⇒⇒") org-specific ,(format
>> "^\\(\\*\\{%d,%d\\}\\)\\(\\*\\)[^*]" (1- org-inlinetask-min-level) (1-
>> org-inlinetask-max-level)) (org-mode) 2)
>>   (?╭ org-specific "^[ ]*#[+]NAME" (org-mode))
>>   (?╭ org-specific "^[ ]*#[+]name" (org-mode))
>>   (?├ org-specific "[ ]*#[+]begin_src" (org-mode))
>>   (?├ org-specific "[ ]*#[+]BEGIN_SRC" (org-mode))
>>   (?╰ org-specific "[ ]*#[+]end_src" (org-mode))
>>   (?╰ org-specific "[ ]*#[+]END_SRC" (org-mode))
>>   ((yant/str-to-glyph "") org-specific ":\\(ATTACH\\):"
>> (org-mode) 1)
>>   ((yant/str-to-glyph "☠D") org-specific "\\> (org-mode))
>>   ((yant/str-to-glyph "◴S") org-specific "\\> (org-mode
>>
>> Diego Zamboni  writes:
>>
>> > Hi Daryl,
>> >
>> > If it's for display purposes only, you might be able to simply use
>> > display substitutions for things to appear the way you want. For
>> > example, I use the technique described here:
>> > https://pank.eu/blog/pretty-babel-src-blocks.html to replace the
>> > begin/end_src strings with symbols. I did a quick test, and it seems
>> > that =prettify-symbols-alist= (which is what this code uses) can only
>> > replace for a single character, so I was not able to make it display
>> > the three backticks, but there might be other techniques that can be
>> > used.
>> >
>> > --Diego
>> >
>> > On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 6:24 PM Daryl Manning 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>&g

Inserting org-mode heading links the org-refile way

[Daryl Manning]

I use ivy and org-refile to process my inbox.org file hyper-efficiently and
get things into my GTD system.

In a recent discussion on org-roam (which nicely links to files in a nice
wiki-like manner) it occurred to me if I had a similar interface to search
for headlines in the manner of org-refile and then insert them effortlessly
without having to switch to a doc and copy/store them and then switching
back to my doc and inserting them, I'd be a happy camper.

Is there a package/functions that does/do that in some fashion (say
configurable to avoid link sprawl so say, like 3 heading levels down and to
files in specific directories like deft). Googling did not give joy, though
I noticed someone had used a similar approach for addressing link *within*
a document, but not quite there (swiper and worf combo and an ivy-org-ref
package looked interesting).

(I always worry when I post these questions that someone is going to just
say "but did you not know about M-x org-insert-link-like-ivy-with-refile"
so go gentle on me if I've missed something obvious. It seems I often do.
This weekend in particular I've added on a whole bunch of small but in the
aggregate, large productivity improvements to my emacs setup which I
approached solving the wrong way until I asked and someone mentioned
another way to do things, so ).

thanks,
Daryl.

Tricking org-mode into using markdown conventions

[Daryl Manning]

While using C-c C-, is easy enough for insertion and such, I was wondering
if there was any way of having org-mode honour markdown conventions for
things like code fences and quotes.

``` elisp
#+begin_src
#+end_src

#+begin_quote
#+end_quote
```

being a bit nicer to read with

``` go
code block
```
as well as

> And gentlemen in England now-a-bed.
> Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
> And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks.
> That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

Just curious as to whether that's possible. YMMV before you start debating
on whether you think this is a good idea or not... =]

Of course, I'd want the code highlighting especially to work that way,
though... =]  Less concerned with whether it works in export modes for the
moment, more about display atm.

thanks!
Daryl.

Re: Improving Org Mode for VSCode - Thinking Aloud

[Daryl Manning]

I think this is a great idea. I actually looked at the two org-mode
implementations on VS Code a long while back and was impressed they'd
gotten as far as they had. Besides the basic support they already have, for
me the big win for them would be able to take advantage of the emacs plugin
ecosystem somehow (though I have no idea how you'd run some sort of in-VSC
lisp interpreter to make some of the plugins work). I know, however, that
the big org-mode boon for me is having packages like deft,
org-super-agenda, org-journal etc as well and being able to have
org-agenda/todos and org-contacts working in there.

What did you have in mind, exactly?  (cuz strangely I am using VS Code more
and more for coding, and emacs more as a note, journaling, organization,
and GTD app... 8-/ )

Daryl.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 12:01 AM  wrote:

> Send Emacs-orgmode mailing list submissions to
> emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:55:27 -0500
> From: George Mauer 
> To: emacs-orgmode 
> Subject: Improving Org Mode for VSCode - Thinking Aloud
> Message-ID:
> <
> ca+pajwk0_jivdfwrhepxlu21vl+ivpayn8zarvudvvmppdj...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> With VSCode becoming ever-popular it seems like there might be some value
> in getting org mode working there simply as a way of promoting org as an
> excellent literate coding notebook.
>
> VSCode already has a halfway decent org-mode but it doesn’t support
> anything from Babel. I’m trying to think of relatively easy ways of adding
> that ability. Here’s a thought: Most of babel that technically works
> against the document itself, it doesn’t really need much document
> integration with the editor. So could you get it working in vscode so long
> as someone has a properly configured version of emacs installed locally?
> “Evaluate/Export/etc” would just write the document, then use emacs to run
> the appropriate commands on it and refresh the document view.
>
> Of course features like the separate editor for src blocks and
> folding #results would be nice too, but if the basics could work that would
> be a huge win for org.
>
> Any thoughts on the feasibility of this?
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/attachments/20200401/2f8e3466/attachment.html
> >
>
> --
>
>
>

Re: Creating table of summarized org-mode result fields in column view "report"

[Daryl Manning]

Technically, yes... but it would be vastly less readable to use and enter
those properties. So, while I had thought about possibly doing that, it
makes more sense to process (from my perspective.).

Daryl


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 4:39 PM Eric S Fraga  wrote:

> On Thursday, 12 Mar 2020 at 15:23, Daryl Manning wrote:
> > However, I figured this has to be a common enough(ish) thing that people
> > need to do that it might already been a code snippet function (or even a
> > package) floating around.
>
> You say you generate these logs using a template.  Could you not modify
> this template to create the subheading with a PROPERTIES drawer instead
> of a log drawer?  It would require only adding a leading : to each entry
> beyond that.
>
> Just thinking out loud here...
>
> --
> : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.3.6-412-ge18415
>

Re: Creating table of summarized org-mode result fields in column view "report"

[Daryl Manning]

Thanks for the response. Very helpful.

I figured out since writing it rom light research on column view and the
helpful column view video on the emacs site):

1. Parse the daily files to AST  (can do this now via a function)
2. Convert the "yaml-ed" fields to :PROPERTY: "drawer" fields (after
looking at the Column video on the emacs website)
3. Dump to a temp buffer with the column definition somewhat like what you
outlined ahead of it to render (though was not sure how to pass the fields
dynamically, but figured could start with fixed)

However, I figured this has to be a common enough(ish) thing that people
need to do that it might already been a code snippet function (or even a
package) floating around. So, this was more a "does this look like a
problem someone has already solved" and where is that package/code kinda
question. =]   #lazyweb

Otherwise, I'll just wander off and attempt coding it myself over le
weekend. =]

thanks!
Daryl.





On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:54 PM Eric S Fraga  wrote:

> On Thursday, 12 Mar 2020 at 12:46, Daryl Manning wrote:
> > Can anyone point me to something similar already? (and is this even
> > possible with column view instead of say, turning it into an org-table
> > within a buffer.
>
> This would be straightforward if each of those entries were a
> PROPERTY.  Then you can specify the properties to display in column view
> along with their widths.  I do this for my todo list which is all in a
> single org file.
>
> You could define the columns along these lines:
>
> #+columns: %60ITEM %this %that %50highlights
>
> to show the contents.
>
> HTH,
> eric
>
> --
> : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.3.6-412-ge18415
>

Creating table of summarized org-mode result fields in column view "report"

[Daryl Manning]

I keep a daily log file where there are some summarize colon delimited
files each day inserted via a template (from Alfred's snippet feature).

``` org-mode
* 2020-03-11 Wed
** 07:37 Log 2020-03-12 Wed
:logs:
*** The  Day

This: ??
That:--
Other:  ???
Thing:  ???
Highlights:???
```

I would like to parse certain of the daily field entries, into by-day
colunmnar entries in desc ending order into an org column view "chart" if
it's possible so that I can easily visually parse how those things went
each day (sure, org-table might work too but this seemed cleaner and more
visually appropriate if possible.

```
| Day |   This  |  That   | Other  | Thing |  Highlights  |
```
spaced widely across the screen. Effectively, a columnar report of the
dayes and the "fields"  (I'll worry about monthly views etc after the
basics sorted... =] ).

I imagine someone has already done something similar but googling has not
given joy (possibly my google-fu needs work) in terms of finding something
already existing other than a way to do something vaguely similar for pdf
output (whereas I am thinking of it more like a sort of agenda report as it
were.

Can anyone point me to something similar already? (and is this even
possible with column view instead of say, turning it into an org-table
within a buffer. Would appreciate advice on how to approach this if it is
something I need to write from scratch as konwledge of org-mode internals
is, at best, weak (ahem... =p ).

thanks!
Daryl.

Re: [O] Minibuffer popup for org-contacts contact linking?

[Daryl Manning]

This looks impressive. Thanks! I need to spend some time with it but loos
like I can definitely steal stuff from what you’ve done for my use-cases.

Out of curiosity, since this looks superior, why did you not
fork/contribute PRa to .org-contact to fold these into the package.

thanks again!
Daryl.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 18:24, John Kitchin  wrote:

> I use https://github.com/jkitchin/scimax/blob/master/contacts.el for
> something like this. There are helm/ivy interfaces in there for doing
> things like you describe. Mostly I use it to fill in email fields in
> messages.
>
>
> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > I'm trying to figure out a way to hotkey bringing up a minibuffer in
> > ivy/ivy-rich much as I would with say `C-x b/k` for switching/killing
> > buffers, but allowing me to filter down to a contact and then, when
> > selected, have that put a `C-c l` link into a document for them.
> >
> > Is there any way to do this? org-contacts documentation is light and
> while
> > there is a search function in there, having trouble bending it as much as
> > I'd like to my will (see previous message about a week's notice on
> > birthdays/anniversaries) though I like the fact it's nice and lightweight
> > and seems to do most of what I want within the workflow I've sort of
> > created for myself (
> > https://daryl.wakatara.com/a-better-gtd-and-crm-flow-for-emacs-org-mode
> )
> >
> > Anyone have any idea or tips on how they've handled that?
> > thanks!
> > Daryl.
>
>
> --
> Professor John Kitchin
> Doherty Hall A207F
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> Carnegie Mellon University
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> 412-268-7803
> @johnkitchin
> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>

[O] Minibuffer popup for org-contacts contact linking?

[Daryl Manning]

I'm trying to figure out a way to hotkey bringing up a minibuffer in
ivy/ivy-rich much as I would with say `C-x b/k` for switching/killing
buffers, but allowing me to filter down to a contact and then, when
selected, have that put a `C-c l` link into a document for them.

Is there any way to do this? org-contacts documentation is light and while
there is a search function in there, having trouble bending it as much as
I'd like to my will (see previous message about a week's notice on
birthdays/anniversaries) though I like the fact it's nice and lightweight
and seems to do most of what I want within the workflow I've sort of
created for myself (
https://daryl.wakatara.com/a-better-gtd-and-crm-flow-for-emacs-org-mode )

Anyone have any idea or tips on how they've handled that?
thanks!
Daryl.

[O] Minibuffer popup for org-contacts contact linking?

[Daryl Manning]

I'm trying to figure out a way to hotkey bringing up a minibuffer in
ivy/ivy-rich much as I would with say `C-x b/k` for switching/killing
buffers, but allowing me to filter down to a contact and then, when
selected, have that put a `C-c l` link into a document for them.

Is there any way to do this? org-contacts documentation is light and while
there is a search function in there, having trouble bending it as much as
I'd like to my will (see previous message about a week's notice on
birthdays/anniversaries) though I like the fact it's nice and lightweight
and seems to do most of what I want within the workflow I've sort of
created for myself (
https://daryl.wakatara.com/a-better-gtd-and-crm-flow-for-emacs-org-mode )

Anyone have any idea or tips on how they've handled that?
thanks!
Daryl.

Re: [O] Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 159, Issue 29

[Daryl Manning]

Hey Niko!

I have to admit I grabbed org-contacts to solve my addressbook problem
because I had thought BBDB was non-supported these days  (and possibly
overkill for my use case), though just noted from the other post in the
digest that there is an EIEIO re-write. So, may check that out this
weekend. Git cloning the code for BBDB from GH I could not find the
(org-bbdb-anniversaries-future) function
in the BBDB code base (since I thought of just applying it to this use case
for org-contacts rather than switching to BBDB).

Is that something custom you wrote to support this? If so, could you post
it (or mail direct to me?) if you're willing to share?

I will be taking a look at EBDB this weekend to see if that might do what I
want better (and since it has a nice import function.)... =]

thanks!
Daryl
PS> I have to admit though being a little confused at how the emacs diary
works versus org-agenda though I know they interoperate... the simple
entries I make which have `<2019-05-29>` type entries in them in my text
org file named cal.org, so worried my lack of understanding of emacs
internals may be having me conflating things that replace each other. Emacs
seems a deep deep rabbit hole at times for us (relative) newbies


On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 12:01 AM  wrote:

> 
>
> Today's Topics:
>5. Re: Advance notice of birthdays in org-mode via org-contacts
>   (Nick Dokos)
> --
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 22:05:07 -0400
> From: Nick Dokos 
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: [O] Advance notice of birthdays in org-mode via
> org-contacts
> Message-ID: <87lfyrl4fg@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Daryl Manning  writes:
>
> > I'm trying to come up with a better way to give myself advanced notice
> on some peoples' birthdays coming up.?
> >
> > Right now, I use the following in a `cal.org` file to give me notice in
> agenda that birthdays are coming up:
> >
> > ```
> > * BDays ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? :bday:
> > %%(org-contacts-anniversaries "BIRTHDAY")
> > ```
> >
> > The generally feeds off a `contacts.org` entry of the nature:
> >
> > ```
> > *** John Wick? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
> > :PROPERTIES:
> > :EMAIL: therealj...@notthepuppy.com
> > :BIRTHDAY: 1975-06-06
> > :END:
> > ```
> >
> > What I'd like is to get, on virtually all birthdays , a week's notice
> through due soon (which I'll sort out in org-super-agenda in the view).
> Alternatively, is there a nicer way to tag or
> > otherwise note some birthdays in the `contacts.org` so that I could
> note special people (close friends, family, etc) where I could set a
> specific advanced notice period so that I have time
> > to do something special for them etc?
> >
> > Would love to hear peoples' approaches to this. In general, if I'm not
> looking out 2 weeks ahead (I spend most time in the day view), I can get
> surprised.
> >
>
> I use bbdb, not org-contacts, and I have this in one of my agenda files:
>
> * Anniversaries
>:PROPERTIES:
>:CATEGORY: Anniv
>:ID:   409062f6-6cb1-467f-b192-2dfcb7b384ca
>:END:
> %%(org-bbdb-anniversaries-future)
>
> That gives me the default 7 days of warning, but you can pass an
> argument to it to specify the number of days of warning.
>
> The function is fairly generic, so it should be possible to adapt it
> to org-contacts with some modifications.
>
> --
> Nick
>
> End of Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 159, Issue 29
> **
>

[O] Advance notice of birthdays in org-mode via org-contacts

[Daryl Manning]

I'm trying to come up with a better way to give myself advanced notice on
some peoples' birthdays coming up.

Right now, I use the following in a `cal.org` file to give me notice in
agenda that birthdays are coming up:

```
* BDays
:bday:
%%(org-contacts-anniversaries "BIRTHDAY")
```

The generally feeds off a `contacts.org` entry of the nature:

```
*** John Wick
:PROPERTIES:
:EMAIL: therealj...@notthepuppy.com
:BIRTHDAY: 1975-06-06
:END:
```

What I'd like is to get, on virtually all birthdays , a week's notice
through due soon (which I'll sort out in org-super-agenda in the view).
Alternatively, is there a nicer way to tag or otherwise note some birthdays
in the `contacts.org` so that I could note special people (close friends,
family, etc) where I could set a specific advanced notice period so that I
have time to do something special for them etc?

Would love to hear peoples' approaches to this. In general, if I'm not
looking out 2 weeks ahead (I spend most time in the day view), I can get
surprised.

thanks!
Daryl.

Re: [O] GTD and CRM workflow for org-mode using Agenda and org-super-agenda [followup]

[Daryl Manning]

Thanks! That's quite kind. Just glad to know someone found it useful.

The DEADLINE with an intermediary step would be cool. The only thing I
could think of that might make something like that work is if you might
create a "subtask" that had the DEADLINE and then follow that and resolve
before the actual top level task got resolved, though being a relative
newcomer to org-mode, I have absolutely not a clue how you'd do accomplish
that (sorry). I'm sure there is probably a better way.  =]

Rather than using a note, btw, I've found it much more useful to signify
delegatee with a tag (so, something like :jones:). The advantage is when
you have a meeting with someone or need to refer to their stuff, just sort
all tasks/todos by tag :jones" and you know everything Jones is on the hook
for. I also generally keep a file for someone - usually to organize 1:1
notes and similar and use a setup like:

# jones.org
``` elisp
#+TITLE: Jones

* Jones
:jones:loka:

** Jones 1:1 - 2019-05-03
*** Team Structure and Leads shifts
*** PMS reviews
*** Martech
...
```

Also very handy if you put the TODOs inline with the 1:1 notes as they'll
still be tagged to find them from the personnel buffer.

Anyhow, YMMV but that has worked surprisingly well though it does not solve
your *actual* intermediary/delegated DEADLINE step. Sorry.   =]

ciao!
Daryl.






On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 4:24 PM Fraga, Eric  wrote:

> On Monday, 13 May 2019 at 10:50, Daryl Manning wrote:
> > A surprising (to me, anyway) number of people asked me privately to
> follow
> > up about my setup and how I was using thing, so I promised I would put a
> > blog post together (I had a draft from march anyhow... =] ).
>
> Thanks for this. Very interesting and well written.  It's given me some
> things to think about.
>
> The one feature that I am missing is chained TODOs in the following
> context.  Like you, I spend an inordinate amount of time chasing
> people.  I often have tasks that I delegate.  I change the task to WAIT
> from TODO and add a note that says to whom I have delegated the
> task.  The original task will typically have a DEADLINE but I would like
> to associate a deadline for the delegated step.  This is not easy to
> do.  For instance, I cannot store a link from the agenda view which
> would allow me, from that view, to easily create a new linked task.
>
> Anyway, thanks again.
> --
> Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.2.2-290-g300f15
>

[O] GTD and CRM workflow for org-mode using Agenda and org-super-agenda [followup]

[Daryl Manning]

I mentioned the setup I was recently using when I asked a question on how
to "Add Notes" into a LOGBOOK property drawer (and thank you to the person
who answered the question for me. It was a game-changer.).

A surprising (to me, anyway) number of people asked me privately to follow
up about my setup and how I was using thing, so I promised I would put a
blog post together (I had a draft from march anyhow... =] ).

Anyhow, have a solid draft up at:
https://daryl.wakatara.com/a-better-gtd-and-crm-flow-for-emacs-org-mode

Would love some feedback on if it answers peoples' question and would love
some feedback on other things you'd need to see in it that it doesn't
answer (within reason).

ciao !
Daryl
PS> I'm assuming I'm not violating any terms of use posting a blog post as
it was topical.

Re: [O] Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 158, Issue 9

[Daryl Manning]

Gregor,

First off, thank you for the Org Add note. I am embarrassed I did not know
about it, it is *exactly* what I want. Thanks! I will add it into a blog
post on my workflow when I go over contact management since I have to
admit, I googled quite a bit to find something and did not run across
org-add note until you mentioned it. Thank you.

As for Chase and Gave on my TODO states, these were originally WAIT and
GAVE for tasks I needed to chase people - I manage a large team that is
cross company so have numerous stakeholders and often off a mail or other
task have to chase someone for something they were either supposed to get
to me to make one of my deadlines or something else I need to make sure is
progressing or actually happened. I assign a deadline to that wait state
after I've executed something.

Subtly different is when I delegate something completely to one of my
reports (or another VP/ BU Head), and I give that a GAVE delegated state
with a DEADLINE on it in order to follow up or expect something being done.
The idea there is that I followup at that time expectint the thing to be
done or as a check-in towards an agreed completion date. It also helps when
I go over my 1:1s with them to understand what is on their plate.

I was going to try to use org-habit as you suggest so interested in greater
detail around rthe "clumsines you mention. I often use week tags ie. 'w15'
being this week, so that I can add that to some more random or automated
followups since it is a matter of making sure I do ping someone once in a
while rather than specific scheduled things. So, record a note, CTRL-c-q
the tag from the contact week like w15 to w19 or such and then it shows up
in the org-super-agenda-view I crafted on my weekly todo tasks rather than
a specific deadline or such. Do you think that  may work less clumisnly
than org-habit? (I know what you mean, I used org-habit in my last run at
habit tracking in org-mode but gave up and started using the excellent
habitctl command line tracker. Check it out, though it is not appropriate
to this task.).

Let me know if you want more detail on the above. The crafted super-agenda
view is what makes this work well since I have it auto sort the view to
give me todo items that are tagged for this week, but do not show up in the
agenda as they have dates attached through deadlines or schedules. So far,
so good on it working, but only crafted the view on the plane on Sunday so
need to see if this will work better than what I was doing before.  =]

thanks again for the Add Note hint! I cannot believe that that did not come
up in my searches on how to do this. Very handy!
Daryl.


On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 9:02 AM  wrote:

> Send Emacs-orgmode mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Emacs-orgmode digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Logging :LOGBOOK: entries to a heading in org-mode without
>   TODO state changes (Daryl Manning)
> ...
>8. Re: Logging :LOGBOOK: entries to a heading in org-mode
>   without TODO state changes (Gregor Zattler)
>
>
> ----------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2019 22:46:42 +0700
> From: Daryl Manning
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: [O] Logging :LOGBOOK: entries to a heading in org-mode
> without TODO state changes
> Message-ID:
>  mauhnkup...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have org-mode set up at the moment to log changes in my TODO states (at
> the moment, TODO, CHASE, GAVE, KILL, DONE) as well as deadline changes and
> reschedules into a logbook drawer. That's working great.
>
> However, I have begun using org-contacts as an ersatz CRM for myself and
> keeping track of mails, meets, and other administrivia tracking people I'm
> interacting with.
>
> I'd love to have a way to as easily use something CTRL-C-T and then have
> the ability to log an item into a Logbook drawer under each heading name.
>
> Is there a way to do this easily without hacking TODO states? Or are there
> other ways people are doing this to achieve the same goal (I'm also hoping
> to set PING deadlines on people so that I am making sure to recontact them
> at various intervals over time, but still trying to puzzle that out... =]
> ).
>
> Would love to know what other people have done with this that is
> lightweight and practi

[O] Logging :LOGBOOK: entries to a heading in org-mode without TODO state changes

[Daryl Manning]

I have org-mode set up at the moment to log changes in my TODO states (at
the moment, TODO, CHASE, GAVE, KILL, DONE) as well as deadline changes and
reschedules into a logbook drawer. That's working great.

However, I have begun using org-contacts as an ersatz CRM for myself and
keeping track of mails, meets, and other administrivia tracking people I'm
interacting with.

I'd love to have a way to as easily use something CTRL-C-T and then have
the ability to log an item into a Logbook drawer under each heading name.

Is there a way to do this easily without hacking TODO states? Or are there
other ways people are doing this to achieve the same goal (I'm also hoping
to set PING deadlines on people so that I am making sure to recontact them
at various intervals over time, but still trying to puzzle that out... =]
).

Would love to know what other people have done with this that is
lightweight and practical.

thanks!
Daryl.