Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Rasmus writes: > >> By this logic we'd have to add *every* "global" keyword, no? Does it make >> sense? > > Every global (as in "ox.el") keyword should be documented there, indeed. For now I have not moved the documentation as I'm not sure we know where to put it yet. >> So should I go ahead a kill KEYWORD and DESCRIPTION in ox? > > IIUC, this is what we agreed on in the related thread. This is pushed now in 79c0aa21ca2657f2ea7272040bce3ff4754bab1b. —Rasmus -- Evidence suggests Snowden used a powerful tool called monospaced fonts
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Rasmus writes: > >> By this logic we'd have to add *every* "global" keyword, no? Does it make >> sense? > > Every global (as in "ox.el") keyword should be documented there, indeed. OK. Marc: you expressed a desire to fix some bugs. I don't know if you like documentation bugs, or whether you are more into code bugs. If you like documentation, would that be something you'd want to do? At least SUBTITLE for ox-texinfo in not documented here. >>> >>> That's also a documentation bug. Note that it should probably >>> be :texinfo-subtitle (and :texinfo-subauthor). >> >> Unless we add a #+SUBTITLE... > > It depends. Adding a prefix allows to specify a subtitle per back-end > when publishing through multiple back-ends. Not a big deal, tho. It would make it hard to set *a* subtitle through publishing. As a user I don't care about the implementation detail and I would prefer :subtitle (should I ever need to specify a subtitle via publishing). —Rasmus -- Slowly unravels in a ball of yarn and the devil collects it
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Rasmus writes: > By this logic we'd have to add *every* "global" keyword, no? Does it make > sense? Every global (as in "ox.el") keyword should be documented there, indeed. >>> At least SUBTITLE for ox-texinfo in not documented here. >> >> That's also a documentation bug. Note that it should probably >> be :texinfo-subtitle (and :texinfo-subauthor). > > Unless we add a #+SUBTITLE... It depends. Adding a prefix allows to specify a subtitle per back-end when publishing through multiple back-ends. Not a big deal, tho. > So should I go ahead a kill KEYWORD and DESCRIPTION in ox? IIUC, this is what we agreed on in the related thread. Regards,
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Nicolas Goaziou writes: >> I have now reviewed this section twice, and I have no clue what you want >> me to change there. There's no :with-keywords or :with-description. > > I don't know either. I was sure that :keywords and :description were > here, but, oddly, it isn't the case. That's a documentation bug as long > as these keywords are in "ox.el". By this logic we'd have to add *every* "global" keyword, no? Does it make sense? >> At least SUBTITLE for ox-texinfo in not documented here. > > That's also a documentation bug. Note that it should probably > be :texinfo-subtitle (and :texinfo-subauthor). Unless we add a #+SUBTITLE... So should I go ahead a kill KEYWORD and DESCRIPTION in ox? —Rasmus -- Lasciate ogni speranza o voi che entrate: siete nella mani di'machellaio
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Rasmus writes: > I have now reviewed this section twice, and I have no clue what you want > me to change there. There's no :with-keywords or :with-description. I don't know either. I was sure that :keywords and :description were here, but, oddly, it isn't the case. That's a documentation bug as long as these keywords are in "ox.el". > At least SUBTITLE for ox-texinfo in not documented here. That's also a documentation bug. Note that it should probably be :texinfo-subtitle (and :texinfo-subauthor). Regards,
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Hi, Nicolas Goaziou writes: >> First, as discussed a while back we want to move DESCRIPTION and KEYWORDS >> out of ox.el as they are specific to certain backends. The first patch >> does this. > > [...] You need to update (info "(org)Publishing options") accordingly, > too. I have now reviewed this section twice, and I have no clue what you want me to change there. There's no :with-keywords or :with-description. At least SUBTITLE for ox-texinfo in not documented here. —Rasmus -- Enough with the bla bla!
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Rasmus writes: > Nicolas Goaziou writes: > >> Do you think that you /always/ want "pdfkeywords" to hold exactly the >> same contents as what you could put in your document? > > You as in me: yes most certainly. IIUC, it contradicts your initial post where you wanted, at some later time, to add bells and whistles to keywords displayed in the output (e.g., turning them into links). I'm not very keen on the idea of KEYWORD doing two different things. If that's not the case, I'm fine with it. >> Do you think that a user who wants to fill pdfkeywords will always want >> to also add these contents in the body of the document? > > Which is why the patch provided a switch in #+OPTIONS. The switch is all or nothing. Again, you're talking about two different features : keywords in meta-data and keywords in data. Regards,
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Do you think that you /always/ want "pdfkeywords" to hold exactly the > same contents as what you could put in your document? You as in me: yes most certainly. > Do you think that a user who wants to fill pdfkeywords will always want > to also add these contents in the body of the document? Which is why the patch provided a switch in #+OPTIONS. —Rasmus -- It was you, Jezebel, it was you
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Rasmus writes:
> Keywords are akin to small headings to identify the contents of a
> document. I see no reason to restrict this to the reader of the
> electronic version of a document.
What are you talking about? I don't want to restrict anything: AFAIU,
the feature you propose already exists in another form.
Again, your proposal is to have KEYWORDS mix two different things, i.e.,
set meta-data in document's header and set contents in the document. My
opinion is that for a given topic, you probably don't always want the
same contents, e.g., in "\\hyperref{pdfkeywords={...}}" and at the
beginning of the document, if only for the limitations on the syntax
allowed in the former.
Therefore, we may consider keeping the two features separated.
Do you think that you /always/ want "pdfkeywords" to hold exactly the
same contents as what you could put in your document? Do you think that
a user who wants to fill pdfkeywords will always want to also add these
contents in the body of the document?
Regards,
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Rasmus writes: > >> Nicolas Goaziou writes: >> >>> We don't need a convoluted markup for that, let's keep it simple. >> >> But then you'd have to repeat data. E.g. >> >> #+KEYWORDS: my keywords for meta-data that should also be printed. >> my keywords for meta-data that should also be printed. >> >> This seems error prone and undesirable IMO. > > Except that this is not a real repetition. As you mentioned, in the > latter case, you want to throw in links and probably other markup, which > make no sense in plain meta-data. Keywords are akin to small headings to identify the contents of a document. I see no reason to restrict this to the reader of the electronic version of a document. > IMO, this is over-engineering. I disagree, but extrapolating this will go nowhere. —Rasmus -- Got mashed potatoes. Ain't got no T-Bone. No T-Bone
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Rasmus writes: > Nicolas Goaziou writes: > >> We don't need a convoluted markup for that, let's keep it simple. > > But then you'd have to repeat data. E.g. > > #+KEYWORDS: my keywords for meta-data that should also be printed. > my keywords for meta-data that should also be printed. > > This seems error prone and undesirable IMO. Except that this is not a real repetition. As you mentioned, in the latter case, you want to throw in links and probably other markup, which make no sense in plain meta-data. IMO, this is over-engineering. Regards,
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Hello, Rasmus writes: > First, as discussed a while back we want to move DESCRIPTION and KEYWORDS > out of ox.el as they are specific to certain backends. The first patch > does this. Thanks. You can remove the keywords from "ox-org.el" and "ox-ascii.el", as they do not use them. You need to update (info "(org)Publishing options") accordingly, too. > Second, I want to add support for printing keywords. This patch is still > rough (i.e. no need commenting), but before proceeding I want to discuss > some things. The goal is to allow cool stuff like: > >#+begin_abstract > Read my paper, please... > #+keywords: org, markup >#+end_abstract > > And eventually: > >#+tile: my fancy blog >#+keywords: org, markup > > Where 'org' and 'markup' would magically become links to indexes (like on > them fancy blogs on the interwebs). I'm still not sure how to do the > latter (see TODO comment in patch). I fail to see how it is "cool". KEYWORDS are meant to add contents to meta-data, i.e., an area you cannot reach easily with regular Org syntax. As a consequence, KEYWORDS doesn't mean much for back-ends not supporting such meta-data. If KEYWORDS are meant to be inserted in the buffer, then write them using regular syntax, e.g., #+begin_abstract Read my paper, please... Keywords-in-my-language: [[http://link-to-tag-cloud][org]] #+end_abstract We don't need a convoluted markup for that, let's keep it simple. Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou
Re: [O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Nicolas Goaziou writes: > We don't need a convoluted markup for that, let's keep it simple. But then you'd have to repeat data. E.g. #+KEYWORDS: my keywords for meta-data that should also be printed. my keywords for meta-data that should also be printed. This seems error prone and undesirable IMO. —Rasmus -- El Rey ha muerto. ¡Larga vida al Rey!
[O] [ox, patch] Keywords & what should go in ox?
Hi,
First, as discussed a while back we want to move DESCRIPTION and KEYWORDS
out of ox.el as they are specific to certain backends. The first patch
does this.
Second, I want to add support for printing keywords. This patch is still
rough (i.e. no need commenting), but before proceeding I want to discuss
some things. The goal is to allow cool stuff like:
#+begin_abstract
Read my paper, please...
#+keywords: org, markup
#+end_abstract
And eventually:
#+tile: my fancy blog
#+keywords: org, markup
Where 'org' and 'markup' would magically become links to indexes (like on
them fancy blogs on the interwebs). I'm still not sure how to do the
latter (see TODO comment in patch).
So, I'm in a dilemma now. On the one hand, ox should probably not include
too much cruft that is specific to certain backends. OTOH, stuff like the
repetition of org-BACKEND-with-keywords and org-BACKEND-keywords-prefix is
a bit annoying (cf. patch).
Another idea I want to discuss. I use "prefix" to designate what is
printed before the :. By default the translated value of "Keywords".
Would it make sense to make this configurable in the file, e.g. as
#+KEYWORDS: [my prefix: ] key0, key1,
—Rasmus
--
To err is human. To screw up 10⁶ times per second, you need a computer
>From 033f7b89f9f7d8a6776bc0758b0bd2db69eb24d1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Rasmus
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 21:38:26 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 1/2] ox: Move KEYWORD and DESCRIPTION out of ox
* ox.el: Remove KEYWORD and DESCRIPTION.
* ox-deck.el, ox-rss.el, ox-html, ox-latex, ox-odt, ox-org: Add
keyword and description.
* org.texi (Export settings): Explicit state which backends
support DESCRIPTION and KEYWORDS.
---
contrib/lisp/ox-deck.el | 4 +++-
contrib/lisp/ox-rss.el | 4 +++-
doc/org.texi| 9 ++---
lisp/ox-html.el | 2 ++
lisp/ox-latex.el| 2 ++
lisp/ox-odt.el | 2 ++
lisp/ox-org.el | 2 ++
lisp/ox.el | 2 --
8 files changed, 20 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
diff --git a/contrib/lisp/ox-deck.el b/contrib/lisp/ox-deck.el
index 0ebde41..7155863 100644
--- a/contrib/lisp/ox-deck.el
+++ b/contrib/lisp/ox-deck.el
@@ -51,7 +51,9 @@
(if a (org-deck-export-to-html t s v b)
(org-open-file (org-deck-export-to-html nil s v b)))
:options-alist
- '((:html-link-home "HTML_LINK_HOME" nil nil)
+ '((:description "DESCRIPTION" nil nil newline)
+(:keywords "KEYWORDS" nil nil space)
+(:html-link-home "HTML_LINK_HOME" nil nil)
(:html-link-up "HTML_LINK_UP" nil nil)
(:deck-postamble "DECK_POSTAMBLE" nil org-deck-postamble newline)
(:deck-preamble "DECK_PREAMBLE" nil org-deck-preamble newline)
diff --git a/contrib/lisp/ox-rss.el b/contrib/lisp/ox-rss.el
index 67b925f..8d3cc27 100644
--- a/contrib/lisp/ox-rss.el
+++ b/contrib/lisp/ox-rss.el
@@ -122,7 +122,9 @@ When nil, Org will create ids using `org-icalendar-create-uid'."
(if a (org-rss-export-to-rss t s v)
(org-open-file (org-rss-export-to-rss nil s v)))
:options-alist
- '((:with-toc nil nil nil) ;; Never include HTML's toc
+ '((:description "DESCRIPTION" nil nil newline)
+(:keywords "KEYWORDS" nil nil space)
+(:with-toc nil nil nil) ;; Never include HTML's toc
(:rss-extension "RSS_EXTENSION" nil org-rss-extension)
(:rss-image-url "RSS_IMAGE_URL" nil org-rss-image-url)
(:rss-categories nil nil org-rss-categories))
diff --git a/doc/org.texi b/doc/org.texi
index 632eb19..8fd958c 100644
--- a/doc/org.texi
+++ b/doc/org.texi
@@ -10612,7 +10612,9 @@ exported.}.
@item DESCRIPTION
@cindex #+DESCRIPTION
The document description. Back-ends handle it as they see fit (e.g., for the
-XHTML meta tag), if at all. You can use several such keywords for long
+XHTML meta tag), if at all. The description-keyword is used in
+@LaTeX{}-backends (see @var{org-latex-hyperref-template}), the HTML backend,
+and the ODT backend. You can use several such keywords for long
descriptions.
@item EMAIL
@@ -10623,8 +10625,9 @@ The email address (@code{user-mail-address}).
@item KEYWORDS
@cindex #+KEYWORDS
The keywords defining the contents of the document. Back-ends handle it as
-they see fit (e.g., for the XHTML meta tag), if at all. You can use several
-such keywords if the list is long.
+they see fit (e.g., for the XHTML meta tag), if at all. Keywords are used in
+@LaTeX{} backends, (see @var{org-latex-hyperref-template}), the HTML backend,
+and the ODT backend. You can use several such keywords if the list is long.
@item LANGUAGE
@cindex #+LANGUAGE
diff --git a/lisp/ox-html.el b/lisp/ox-html.el
index 92fe3d9..21e6122 100644
--- a/lisp/ox-html.el
+++ b/lisp/ox-html.el
@@ -110,6 +110,8 @@
:options-alist
'((:html-doctype "HTML_DOCTYPE" nil org-html-doctype)
(:html-container "HTML_CONTAINER" nil org-html-container-element)
+(:description "DESCRIPTION" nil nil newline)
+(:keywords "KEYWORDS" nil nil space)
(:html-html5-fancy nil
