Re: [O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

"Berry, Charles"  writes:

> I guess I can omit drawers that are not to be exported according to
> the drawer-name with my own `format-drawer-function' variants.

There's already a mechanism to skip drawers during export based on their
name. See `org-export-with-drawers'.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Berry, Charles]

> On Apr 16, 2018, at 7:01 AM, Eric S Fraga  wrote:
> 
> So, you have motivated me to look at alternatives just in case.  I've
> started playing with the export settings for drawers for odt and
> LaTeX.  It does seem like I can move to using drawers instead of inline
> tasks for all of my uses *except* for actual tasks.

Drawers would probably work for me, too. 

I use inlinetasks tagged :noexport: to contain babel code I might want to run 
in the course of document preparation, but not on export.

I guess I can omit drawers that are not to be exported according to the 
drawer-name with my own `format-drawer-function' variants.  But if tags or some 
equivalent convention get added to drawers, maybe a :noexport: tag would help 
my case.

I'd just have to convert my existing org files.

Chuck

Re: [O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Eric S Fraga]

On Monday, 16 Apr 2018 at 18:39, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> For once (!), this is not what I'm suggesting. :)

:-)  You've made me paranoid!

> I'm not even convinced they need to hold contents per se. If we imagine
> that a new syntax would be "!!" at the beginning of a line, one line per
> task, we can couple any task to the drawer for contents, e.g.;
>
> !! TODO Go to the grocery
> :grocery-list:
> - carrots
> - bread
> :end:

This would work nicely.  I like the !! (or even just a single !) syntax.

>> It would also be useful to be able to narrow a view to the drawer
>> contents.
>
> This is `C-x n e' on a drawer boundary.

Ah!  Thanks.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-419-g52ba1a


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Re: [O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Eric S Fraga  writes:

> I use inlinetasks all the time and for a number of different use
> cases.  My initial reaction is that I would not like to see them
> disappear!

For once (!), this is not what I'm suggesting. :)

 I wonder if it is meant to stay an external module, like, e.g.,
"org-bibtex.el", or become automatically integrated in default Org,
like, e.g., "org-tables.el". Inline tasks are the odd ball, because they
are almost integrated -- e.g., full support in "ox.el" and
"org-element.el" -- but yet not autoloaded.

> I do agree that their implementation would appear to be a little
> clunky and maybe other solutions or implementations would be possible.

Besides, inline tasks are not required to look like headlines. For
example, diary S-exps do not look like headlines and yet appear in the
agenda:

%%(org-anniversary 1956  5 14) Arthur Dent is %d years old

I'm not even convinced they need to hold contents per se. If we imagine
that a new syntax would be "!!" at the beginning of a line, one line per
task, we can couple any task to the drawer for contents, e.g.;

!! TODO Go to the grocery
:grocery-list:
- carrots
- bread
:end:

So, the drawer doesn't belong to the task, but still is adequately
placed to permit the association between the two.

> So, you have motivated me to look at alternatives just in case.  I've
> started playing with the export settings for drawers for odt and
> LaTeX.  It does seem like I can move to using drawers instead of inline
> tasks for all of my uses *except* for actual tasks.

I agree inline tasks can fill a role, but this role has to be clearly
defined so we can think about a proper syntax.

Again, something like the following is possible:

  !! TODO Go to the grocery :tag:
  SCHEDULED: <...> DEADLINE: <...>

One problem is that, unfortunately, the current syntax somewhat works,
whereas a new syntax would require more work to be effective (e.g.,
included in the agenda, in sparse trees...).

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud.

> It would nice to have some improved navigation and search
> facilities for drawers which, knowing org, probably already exist?

I don't think anything like this exists. Drawers have two purposes: hide
stuff away, and allow selective export.

> It would also be useful to be able to narrow a view to the drawer
> contents.

This is `C-x n e' on a drawer boundary.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Eric S Fraga]

On Monday, 16 Apr 2018 at 14:08, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:

[...]

> However, since inline tasks have been around for years, it may be a good
> time to decide once and for all how, and if, they should be included in
> Org proper. 

Hi Nicolas,

I use inlinetasks all the time and for a number of different use
cases.  My initial reaction is that I would not like to see them
disappear!  I do agree that their implementation would appear to be a
little clunky and maybe other solutions or implementations would be
possible.

So, you have motivated me to look at alternatives just in case.  I've
started playing with the export settings for drawers for odt and
LaTeX.  It does seem like I can move to using drawers instead of inline
tasks for all of my uses *except* for actual tasks.

It would nice to have some improved navigation and search
facilities for drawers which, knowing org, probably already exist?
Tagging would also be useful but probably difficult and maybe not
reasonable given that drawers have names anyway.  It would also be
useful to be able to narrow a view to the drawer contents.

thanks,
eric

-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.6-419-g52ba1a


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Re: [O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

alain.coch...@unistra.fr writes:

> Hello.  I have the file (with name 'bug.org'):
>
> * foo :foofoofoo:
> *** TODO an inlinetask
> foo
> *** END
> barXXX
>
>
> (1) 'C-c a m foofoofoo'
>
> gives be
>
> Headlines with TAGS match: foofoofoo
> Press `M-0 r' to search again with new search string
>   bug:foo:foofoofoo:
>   bug:..TODO an inlinetask  :foofoofoo::
>   bug:..END :foofoofoo::
>
> which I do not find really normal.
>
> (2) Similarly 'C-c a s barXXX'
>
> gives me
>
> Search words: barXXX
> Press `[', `]' to add/sub word, `{', `}' to add/sub regexp, `M-0 r' to edit
>   bug:END :foofoofoo::
>

Fixed. Thank you.

> PS: Also, is that normal that inlinetaks are virtually not documented
> in the manual?

Inlinetasks has a lot of glitches like the one you noticed above. It is
not ready for prime time. Worse, I don't think its design is good,
either. Even if that sounds smart at first, inline tasks should not use
the same syntax as first-class headlines. This introduces too many
complications.

However, since inline tasks have been around for years, it may be a good
time to decide once and for all how, and if, they should be included in
Org proper. Note that last time this discussion happened, we couldn't
even agree on a set of features.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

[O] Problems created by inlinetasks in agenda views

[Alain . Cochard]

Hello.  I have the file (with name 'bug.org'):

* foo :foofoofoo:
*** TODO an inlinetask
foo
*** END
barXXX


(1) 'C-c a m foofoofoo'

gives be

Headlines with TAGS match: foofoofoo
Press `M-0 r' to search again with new search string
  bug:foo:foofoofoo:
  bug:..TODO an inlinetask  :foofoofoo::
  bug:..END :foofoofoo::

which I do not find really normal.

(2) Similarly 'C-c a s barXXX'

gives me

Search words: barXXX
Press `[', `]' to add/sub word, `{', `}' to add/sub regexp, `M-0 r' to edit
  bug:END :foofoofoo::


I have:
Org mode version 9.1.2 (9.1.2-32-g271e58-elpa @
/home/cochard/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171106/)

Regards,
Alain

PS: Also, is that normal that inlinetaks are virtually not documented
in the manual?

-- 
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IPG (Institut de Physique du Globe) | alain.coch...@unistra.fr
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