Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On 2014-04-25, John Hendy wrote: I have to ask: is whatever was once considered the golden ratio for text-to-whitespace in printed material, or even used by Gutenberg himself for proper typesetting considered relevant/best practice today? Yes, at least partly. Verachtet mir die alten Meister nicht! (Do not condemn the old masters!) -- Richard Wagner Default Org - LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me. Check the Komascript classes. Other than theoretical principle, is there evidence that readers prefer the look of the default LaTeX article sizing? Beyond all aesthetic meanings, there are some practical aspects that are valid for all presentations of text to readers. The most important rule is that the number of characters per line shall not exceed 70. Together with the chosen font, its size, and tracking, this rule defines the width of the type area. Together with the interlinear space, this rule is relevant for the readability. The longer the line, the larger (but not to large!) the interlinear space. Thus for printed papers where the most economical use of paper is important, a multi-column layout is the way to go to get the smallest margins. -- Michael Strey www.strey.biz
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Michael Strey mst...@strey.biz wrote: On 2014-04-25, John Hendy wrote: I have to ask: is whatever was once considered the golden ratio for text-to-whitespace in printed material, or even used by Gutenberg himself for proper typesetting considered relevant/best practice today? Yes, at least partly. Verachtet mir die alten Meister nicht! (Do not condemn the old masters!) -- Richard Wagner Fair enough, but let's not forget that the old masters of the medical profession around that time were practicing bloodletting. Default Org - LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me. Check the Komascript classes. Other than theoretical principle, is there evidence that readers prefer the look of the default LaTeX article sizing? Beyond all aesthetic meanings, there are some practical aspects that are valid for all presentations of text to readers. The most important rule is that the number of characters per line shall not exceed 70. Together with the chosen font, its size, and tracking, this rule defines the width of the type area. Together with the interlinear space, this rule is relevant for the readability. The longer the line, the larger (but not to large!) the interlinear space. This is more what I was looking for, especially if there have been some studies on something like reading speed, comprehension, or perhaps some quantifiable measure of eye fatigue. After you wrote this, I definitely recognize that almost every journal, magazine, and newspaper article is in column format. I don't work in academia or write journal articles, but I do work at a very large technology company (manufacturing, consumer goods, advanced materials, etc., not software) and I've never seen a column formatted internal technical report. So my comment was more about inquiring why these conventions aren't followed if they're so vastly superior. I'd have figured I'd run into at least *some* teacher/professor at some point in my life who requested/suggested/taught about the benefits of fixed character-per-line typesetting? Thus for printed papers where the most economical use of paper is important, a multi-column layout is the way to go to get the smallest margins. Also makes sense, and I hadn't thought about that -- default LaTeX just spits out an island of text some several inches in from all edges of the page, which never made sense to me (unless maybe I was writing a book, as that's the sort of look in connotes). John -- Michael Strey www.strey.biz
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Michael Strey mst...@strey.biz wrote: On 2014-04-25, John Hendy wrote: [snip] Default Org - LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me. Check the Komascript classes. Missed this point. I've dabbled with them a little, but will have to take another look as they come up quite a bit. The point made above was: Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction before changing anything in the layout of margins. The typical LaTeX classes are made thorougly with those classic rules of page construction in mind. So I took the most typical LaTeX class to be the default one used, article. I'd expect the most common LaTeX class to truly represent the pinnacle of typesetting glory ;) Other than font, if Koma changes geometry/borders... I'm thinking that the article class must either 1) not embody the classic rules that well or 2) the classic rules aren't very aesthetically pleasing after all. John
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
John Hendy jw.he...@gmail.com writes: I'm thinking that the article class must either 1) not embody the classic rules that well or 2) the classic rules aren't very aesthetically pleasing after all. or 3) the classic rules are variable and flexible. Here is a quote from the Koma script manual: Many LATEX classes, including the standard classes, present the user with the largely fixed configuration of margins and typearea. With the standard classes, the configuration determined is very much dependent on the chosen font size. There are separate packages, such as geometry (see [Ume00]), which give the user complete control, but also full responsibility, of the settings of typearea and margins. KOMA-Script takes a somewhat different approach with its typearea package. Here the user is given several construction setting and automatization possibilities based on established typography standards in order to help guide him or her in making a good choice. All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Thomas S. Dye t...@tsdye.com wrote: John Hendy jw.he...@gmail.com writes: I'm thinking that the article class must either 1) not embody the classic rules that well or 2) the classic rules aren't very aesthetically pleasing after all. or 3) the classic rules are variable and flexible. I love out-of-the-box thinking :) Here is a quote from the Koma script manual: Many LATEX classes, including the standard classes, present the user with the largely fixed configuration of margins and typearea. With the standard classes, the configuration determined is very much dependent on the chosen font size. There are separate packages, such as geometry (see [Ume00]), which give the user complete control, but also full responsibility, of the settings of typearea and margins. KOMA-Script takes a somewhat different approach with its typearea package. Here the user is given several construction setting and automatization possibilities based on established typography standards in order to help guide him or her in making a good choice. Interesting quote! You've sold me on Michael's original suggestion and I'll be checking out Koma more closely very soon. It's great timing as a semi-annual technical report at work is due from me shortly :) John All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
Achim Gratz strom...@nexgo.de writes: J. David Boyd writes: However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom margins? I like my PDFs to have no more than .75 top, bottom, left and right. I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck. The scr* family of LaTeX packages (aka KOMA-Script) allow you to change the margins with the DIV argument. Depending on the base font size, something like DIV13 or even DIV15 might give result closer to your goal, but .75 margins are definitely reader-unfriendly (yes, journals do that all the time, but it's still no good). Regards, Achim. Why reader-unfriendly? I prefer to print with .75 margins, gives me plenty of whitespace on the edges for hole punching and notes. .5 is too dense on the paper, and 1 leaves me feeling like I've used up a forest.
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 5:29 AM, Michael Strey mst...@strey.biz wrote: Hi Dave, Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction before changing anything in the layout of margins. The typical LaTeX classes are made thorougly with those classic rules of page construction in mind. I have to ask: is whatever was once considered the golden ratio for text-to-whitespace in printed material, or even used by Gutenberg himself for proper typesetting considered relevant/best practice today? Default Org - LaTeX article looks *ugly as all hell* to me. Other than theoretical principle, is there evidence that readers prefer the look of the default LaTeX article sizing? John On 2014-04-23, J. David Boyd wrote: I can export an org file to a PDF no problem, looks great. However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom margins? I like my PDFs to have no more than .75 top, bottom, left and right. I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck. Thanks, Dave -- Michael Strey www.strey.biz
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
Recommended reading if your are interested in typography: Robert Bringhurst: The Elements of Typographical Style ISBN 0-88179-205-5 Victoria Squire: Getting it Right with Type ISBN-13: 978-1-85669-474-2 Ellen Lupton: thinking with type ISBN 1-56898-448-0 Derek Birdsall: notes on book design ISBN 0-300-10347-6 I have enjoyed reading all four and I recommend you read at least two of them because there is not one and only one true and proper way to do this. Nor is it trivial so before changing anything you should make sure you know what you are doing! The ease with which the user can meddle with typography is one of the reasons word-processors such as MS Word and OpenOffice Write should be banned :-) -- Martin Schöön http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
Bringhurst is very good. Also, good discussions from a LaTeX point of view in Chapters 2 of the Koma-Script and Memoir manuals. On my system, I get these with `texdoc memoir' and `texdoc koma'. hth, Tom Martin Schöön martin.sch...@gmail.com writes: Recommended reading if your are interested in typography: Robert Bringhurst: The Elements of Typographical Style ISBN 0-88179-205-5 Victoria Squire: Getting it Right with Type ISBN-13: 978-1-85669-474-2 Ellen Lupton: thinking with type ISBN 1-56898-448-0 Derek Birdsall: notes on book design ISBN 0-300-10347-6 I have enjoyed reading all four and I recommend you read at least two of them because there is not one and only one true and proper way to do this. Nor is it trivial so before changing anything you should make sure you know what you are doing! The ease with which the user can meddle with typography is one of the reasons word-processors such as MS Word and OpenOffice Write should be banned :-) -- Martin Schöön http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html Recommended reading if your are interested in typography: Robert Bringhurst: The Elements of Typographical Style ISBN 0-88179-205-5 Victoria Squire: Getting it Right with Type ISBN-13: 978-1-85669-474-2 Ellen Lupton: thinking with type ISBN 1-56898-448-0 Derek Birdsall: notes on book design ISBN 0-300-10347-6 I have enjoyed reading all four and I recommend you read at least two of them because there is not one and only one true and proper way to do this. Nor is it trivial so before changing anything you should make sure you know what you are doing! The ease with which the user can meddle with typography is one of the reasons word-processors such as MS Word and OpenOffice Write should be banned :-) -- Thomas S. Dye http://www.tsdye.com
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On 25 April 2014 21:51, Thomas S. Dye t...@tsdye.com wrote: Bringhurst is very good. Also, good discussions from a LaTeX point of view in Chapters 2 of the Koma-Script and Memoir manuals. On my system, I get these with `texdoc memoir' and `texdoc koma'. hth, Tom Both Koma and Memoir are great but their manuals are not even close to any of the books I listed. -- Martin Schöön http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/index.html
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
J. David Boyd writes: However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom margins? I like my PDFs to have no more than .75 top, bottom, left and right. I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck. The scr* family of LaTeX packages (aka KOMA-Script) allow you to change the margins with the DIV argument. Depending on the base font size, something like DIV13 or even DIV15 might give result closer to your goal, but .75 margins are definitely reader-unfriendly (yes, journals do that all the time, but it's still no good). Regards, Achim. -- +[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]+ Wavetables for the Terratec KOMPLEXER: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#KomplexerWaves
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
Hi Dave, Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canons_of_page_construction before changing anything in the layout of margins. The typical LaTeX classes are made thorougly with those classic rules of page construction in mind. On 2014-04-23, J. David Boyd wrote: I can export an org file to a PDF no problem, looks great. However, how do I get rid of the huge left and right and top and bottom margins? I like my PDFs to have no more than .75 top, bottom, left and right. I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck. Thanks, Dave -- Michael Strey www.strey.biz
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can find
with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
\usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
HTH,
--
Bastien
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
\usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
HTH,
Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
this at?
I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
config, yes?
Dave
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:59 AM, J. David Boyd jdavidb...@adboyd.com wrote:
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
\usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
HTH,
Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
this at?
I have a line at the top like so:
#+latex_header: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
(Mine's different, but that's the analog for this case). Anything you
would normally put in LaTeX straight-up, like commands, settings,
packages, etc. would go into #+latex_header: lines in Orgmode. Here's
an example of my default setup:
#+AUTHOR:John Henderson
#+OPTIONS: *:t TeX:t H:5 creator:nil
#+latex_header: \usepackage[hmargin=2.5cm,vmargin=2.5cm]{geometry}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{mathpazo} \usepackage{paralist}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{enumitem}
#+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{0.5cm} \setlength{\parindent}{0cm}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{lscape}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{booktabs}
#+latex_header: \hypersetup{colorlinks=true,linkcolor=blue,urlcolor=blue}
Just wanted to give an example of how you might setup Org to do what
you want in LaTeX/PDF output.
To go even further, I don't even have the above in each Org file. I
keep it in ~/org/aux/setupfile.org. Then in each file I create, I use
this line:
#+setupfile: ~/org/aux/setupfile.org
So, for any regularly used options, I just leave them in setupfile.org
and bring them in with the above line for new files. For things I want
to set per-file, I'd add a file-specific #+latex_header line, or tweak
the #+options parameters.
John
I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
config, yes?
Dave
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
\usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
HTH,
Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
this at?
I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
config, yes?
In the org file:
#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
If you want to make this the default, you can customize
org-latex-packages-alist:
(add-to-list 'org-latex-packages-alist
'(margin=0.25in geometry nil))
Nick
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
John Hendy jw.he...@gmail.com writes:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:59 AM, J. David Boyd jdavidb...@adboyd.com wrote:
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
\usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
HTH,
Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
this at?
I have a line at the top like so:
#+latex_header: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
(Mine's different, but that's the analog for this case). Anything you
would normally put in LaTeX straight-up, like commands, settings,
packages, etc. would go into #+latex_header: lines in Orgmode. Here's
an example of my default setup:
#+AUTHOR:John Henderson
#+OPTIONS: *:t TeX:t H:5 creator:nil
#+latex_header: \usepackage[hmargin=2.5cm,vmargin=2.5cm]{geometry}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{mathpazo} \usepackage{paralist}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{enumitem}
#+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{0.5cm} \setlength{\parindent}{0cm}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{lscape}
#+latex_header: \usepackage{booktabs}
#+latex_header: \hypersetup{colorlinks=true,linkcolor=blue,urlcolor=blue}
Just wanted to give an example of how you might setup Org to do what
you want in LaTeX/PDF output.
To go even further, I don't even have the above in each Org file. I
keep it in ~/org/aux/setupfile.org. Then in each file I create, I use
this line:
#+setupfile: ~/org/aux/setupfile.org
So, for any regularly used options, I just leave them in setupfile.org
and bring them in with the above line for new files. For things I want
to set per-file, I'd add a file-specific #+latex_header line, or tweak
the #+options parameters.
John
Thanks very much! Exactly what I was looking for.
Dave
Re: [O] setting left margin in PDF output of ORG file
Nick Dokos ndo...@gmail.com writes:
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:
jdavidb...@adboyd.com (J. David Boyd) writes:
I've looked through all the latex, org-latex, org-beamer variables I can
find with customize-apropos, but not having any luck.
You can use the LaTeX geometry package:
\usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
HTH,
Thanks, but since my LaTeX-fu and Org-fu are quite weak, where would I use
this at?
I can put it into the .tex file that is created manually, then run pdflatex 3
times like org does, but there must be somewhere to put it into the org
config, yes?
In the org file:
#+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[margin=0.25in]{geometry}
If you want to make this the default, you can customize
org-latex-packages-alist:
(add-to-list 'org-latex-packages-alist
'(margin=0.25in geometry nil))
Nick
Beautiful! Thanks very much. I'll definitely be adding it into my defaults.
Have a great orging day!
Dave
