Re: [PSES] Shipping samples to UK

[Charlie Blackham]

Christopher

Nothing has changed that affects shipment of samples for test and/or evaluation
Just make it clear on the documentation as always

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Chris <0133def26cf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: 25 May 2021 22:02
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Shipping samples to UK

Folks,
We would like to ship some non revenue samples to BT in UK.
Frequency C-band 3.8-4.2 GHz.
Does UK custom allow import of non revenue Access Point samples for evaluation.

Any info will help as UK rules are different compared to Europe.

Thanks in advance

Christopher
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Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

[Brian Kunde]

I also concur with what has been posted by others.  But I would like to
inject one short commentary if I might.

Traditionally, we have found that a large percentage of emissions failures
are due to the over-the-counter peripherals and/or cables; a required part
of the overall test system but somewhat outside the control of the
customer.  I know this is not new information, but the customer is not
happy when they are paying good money troubleshooting a failure caused by
the peripherals or cables they chose.  And then they will ask the questions
I so dread, "How can they sell peripherals that do not meet the
requirements?".  I wish I had an answer.

So for our EMC lab, if we do not count the failures caused by
over-the-counter peripherals, the percentage of failures goes way down.

Piece out.  Stay safe.

The Other Brian

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 7:59 AM Jim Hulbert 
wrote:

> I first started in the EMC, Product Safety, and standards compliance
> aspect of engineering about 35 years ago.  At that time they were saying
> all the same things we are saying today:  Must be considered up front in
> designs.  Must be included in engineering education at the
> college/university level.  Management needs to commit to compliance.  I
> would also add that EMC was “black magic” (do people still say that?).
>  Apparently we still have a long way to go.  I wonder if they will still be
> saying these things 35 years from now.
>
>
>
> Jim Hulbert
>
>
>
> *From:* John E Allen <09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:59 PM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first
> time?
>
>
>
> Like a “lot” of people here, I never had any formal education in either
> safety or EMC compliance – I just had to learn “on the job” about “what
> worked and what didn’t”, and often in very challenging situations*. *
>
> *(OTOH, I was never the “sharpest tool in the toolbox” in engineering
>  parlance – which was a “problem”  when engaging with local management
> which, frankly, mainly “didn’t to know” **☹**, ) *
>
>
>
> Therefore safety, standards compliance and EMC standards compliance REALLY
> MUST be an integral component of engineering education –* and ALSO for
> company management *- forward from where we are “now”.
>
>
>
> John E Allen
>
> W. London, UK.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Dennis Ward <0dbeaa892a40-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent:* 25 May 2021 21:09
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?
>
>
>
> Having been in the EMC business now for going on 40+years, I concur with
> what Pete is saying.  The truth of the matter is, this field of study is
> sadly under taught and is still more hands on and learning by trial and
> error for the most part.  Yes, there are a lot of good ‘classes’ you can
> take, but the fact remains, this is more than not an OJT field.
>
>
>
> As to manufacturers designing at the limit.  This is also true, and also
> problematic as it means far too many products still fail first time out.
>
>
>
> I don’t know if I would necessarily agree with the percentages reported,
> but it is getting a better.
>
>
>
> My last 20+ years has been working in the regulatory approvals end and I
> can say that failure to comply with rules and standards is still a big
> issue with manufacturers.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dennis Ward *Senior Reviewing Engineer
> PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, LLC.
> 7185 Oakland Mills Road
> Columbia, MD  21045
> 1 410 290 6652)
>
> dennis.w...@pctest.com | www.pctest.com
> 
> | www.element.com
> 
>
> This communication and any attachment contain information from PCTEST
> Engineering Laboratory, LLC. and is intended for the exclusive use of the
> recipient(s) named above.
>
>
>
> *From:* Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2021 12:39 PM
> *

[PSES] Hot surface sign

[Scott Xe]

In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause burn
injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to alert
the users.

   - Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black
   colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
   - Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in EU
   criteria perspective?
   - In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot surface
   or next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours are
   protected from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be used to
   withstand higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for verification?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

[Wiseman, Joshua]

Scott,

At my previous employer we had the symbol stamped into the stainless steel of a 
part on the commercial griddle. A traditional label would not withstand the 
heat in this instance and with-it being part of the sheet metal it me all the 
cleaning and legibility requirements. It's hard to see but I took a snippet of 
one from a video of the griddle on YouTube.

[cid:image003.png@01D75217.ECB8ABD0]

Josh

Joshua Wiseman
Staff Engineer, Product Safety/EMC/Systems


From: Scott Xe 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2021 10:04 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Hot surface sign

EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action


In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause burn 
injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to alert the 
users.

  *   Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black 
colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
  *   Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in EU 
criteria perspective?
  *   In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot surface or 
next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours are protected 
from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be used to withstand 
higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for verification?
Thanks and regards,

Scott
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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

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Instruc

Re: [PSES] Basic Schematic Creation Software

[Brian Kunde]

Wow, I really like Dia.  It has some nice features. Looks to be a handy
program for a lot of different applications. I'll have to play around with
this a bit.

Thanks.
The Other Brian

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 3:15 PM Patrick Lawler  wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> I wasn't aware of the 'Dia' software until Brent mentioned it.  While
> looking through the developers site, I saw there are additional symbol
> packs already designed that may meet your needs:
> http://dia-installer.de/shapes/index.html.en
>
> Regards,
> Patrick Lawler
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 8:53 AM Brian Kunde  wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am in need of a simple program for creating simple schematics of
> Safety Circuits in a variety of States.  I envision something that I can
> easily insert door switches, relays, button switches, e-stops, fuses,
> circuit breakers, etc..  It would be nice if once laid out, I can simply
> click to change the state of a switch or relay to represent different
> states of a Safety Function.  And then save it off in .pdf format.
> >
> > Does anyone know of some software that will do this for a low cost or
> maybe Free?  This is something we will use only a few times a year.
> >
> > Thanks to all in advance for any information.
> >
> > Regards,
> > The Other Brian
> >
> >
> > -
> > 
> >
> > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
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> to 
> >
> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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> >
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> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> >
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> >
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> >
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> > David Heald 
>

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Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

[Lfresearch Jose]

Hi Chas,

Sorry to be late to the table, always happens when there's no food on it ;-)

Over the last 30 years in our lab it has varied. Starting out around when the 
CE mark first hit products tended to be noisy, but the circuits were running 
much slower the net result being a likelihood of failure under 200 MHz. Bad 
design and poor layout were the culprits.

That improved as folks paid attention and about a decade ago we saw a 
significant number of designs that passed with margin first time. However, with 
the push to manufacture offshore we saw the emissions trend climb over the spec 
lines again. Some of this could be because switching got faster, but some was 
down to rudimentary mistakes being made over again. And some have been down to 
design changes by the contract manufacturer without telling the product owner.

One other trend we have seen is manufacturers building stuff from supposedly CE 
marked sub-assemblies. The problem being in the end design, they are 
implemented way differently than the way they were tested during the sub 
assembly test. SMPS in particular are big offenders.

All that said, we are running about 70% first time emissions pass rate if we 
exclude the problem designs referred to us to fix.

I would be interested to hear a summary of all the replies you get should you 
have time.

Take care,

Derek

> On May 24, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Grasso, Charles [Outlook] 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello EMC gurus!
> 
> Calling all labs - In your experience how many products pass the 
> Unintentional Emissions
> test first time? ​
> 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
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> 
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>  can be used for graphics (in 
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Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

[Brian Kunde]

Usually, high-temperature surface warning symbols are only required if the
hazard is not obvious.  So in ovens, stovetops, griddles, toasters,
heat-sinks, etc. do not require them.

However, if such appliances or device have areas that are hot but it is not
obvious it is hot, a warning symbol might be required.

At home, I have a 2-slice toaster. It is a "Cool Touch" toaster that has
no hot exposed surfaces, except from the small surface between the two
slots on the top.  So the manufacturer engraved the symbol on the metal
surface.  Not a bad idea.  But back in the day, the sides of a toaster got
really hot; hot enough to melt the Wonder Bread bag.  As a kid, I think
every toaster I ever saw had a Wonder Bread bag melted on the side.

The Other Brian

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 10:04 AM Scott Xe  wrote:

> In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause
> burn injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to
> alert the users.
>
>- Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black
>colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
>- Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in
>EU criteria perspective?
>- In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot
>surface or next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours
>are protected from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be
>used to withstand higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for
>verification?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Scott
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
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> unsubscribe) 
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>
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> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
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Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

I’ve not read it (44 pages) but EU LVD market enforcement did a report 
“Non-functional Hot Surfaces Project”

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/5263/attachments/1/translations

Some standards, such as EN 60335-2-9 (Household and similar electrical 
appliances - Safety - Part 2-9: Particular requirements for grills, toasters 
and similar portable cooking appliances) have different limits if equipment is 
labelled

The ISO symbol IEC 60417 - 5041, Caution, hot surface 
(iso.org), is often referred to, 
but I’m not aware that colours or contrast is mandated

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Brian Kunde 
Sent: 26 May 2021 18:08
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

Usually, high-temperature surface warning symbols are only required if the 
hazard is not obvious.  So in ovens, stovetops, griddles, toasters, heat-sinks, 
etc. do not require them.

However, if such appliances or device have areas that are hot but it is not 
obvious it is hot, a warning symbol might be required.

At home, I have a 2-slice toaster. It is a "Cool Touch" toaster that has no hot 
exposed surfaces, except from the small surface between the two slots on the 
top.  So the manufacturer engraved the symbol on the metal surface.  Not a bad 
idea.  But back in the day, the sides of a toaster got really hot; hot enough 
to melt the Wonder Bread bag.  As a kid, I think every toaster I ever saw had a 
Wonder Bread bag melted on the side.

The Other Brian

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 10:04 AM Scott Xe 
mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> wrote:
In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause burn 
injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to alert the 
users.

  *   Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black 
colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
  *   Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in EU 
criteria perspective?
  *   In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot surface or 
next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours are protected 
from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be used to withstand 
higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for verification?
Thanks and regards,

Scott
-


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>

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell >

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Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

[Douglas E Powell]

I once informed an engineer he needed a hot surface label, because he
exceeded the limit. After selecting an adhesive label, he asked how hot can
it get if it's labeled.  Tongue in cheek, I told him he could not melt or
burn the label since it had to remain legible.

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 1:19 PM Charlie Blackham <
char...@sulisconsultants.com> wrote:

> Scott
>
>
>
> I’ve not read it (44 pages) but EU LVD market enforcement did a report 
> “Non-functional
> Hot Surfaces Project”
>
>
>
> https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/5263/attachments/1/translations
>
>
>
> Some standards, such as EN 60335-2-9 (Household and similar electrical
> appliances - Safety - Part 2-9: Particular requirements for grills,
> toasters and similar portable cooking appliances) have different limits if
> equipment is labelled
>
>
>
> The ISO symbol IEC 60417 - 5041, Caution, hot surface (iso.org)
> , is often referred to,
> but I’m not aware that colours or contrast is mandated
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> *Charlie Blackham*
>
> *Sulis Consultants Ltd*
>
> *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*
>
> *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/  *
>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Kunde 
> *Sent:* 26 May 2021 18:08
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign
>
>
>
> Usually, high-temperature surface warning symbols are only required if the
> hazard is not obvious.  So in ovens, stovetops, griddles, toasters,
> heat-sinks, etc. do not require them.
>
>
>
> However, if such appliances or device have areas that are hot but it is
> not obvious it is hot, a warning symbol might be required.
>
>
>
> At home, I have a 2-slice toaster. It is a "Cool Touch" toaster that has
> no hot exposed surfaces, except from the small surface between the two
> slots on the top.  So the manufacturer engraved the symbol on the metal
> surface.  Not a bad idea.  But back in the day, the sides of a toaster got
> really hot; hot enough to melt the Wonder Bread bag.  As a kid, I think
> every toaster I ever saw had a Wonder Bread bag melted on the side.
>
>
>
> The Other Brian
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 10:04 AM Scott Xe  wrote:
>
> In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause
> burn injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to
> alert the users.
>
>- Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black
>colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
>- Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in
>EU criteria perspective?
>- In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot
>surface or next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours
>are protected from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be
>used to withstand higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for
>verification?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
>
>
> Scott
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, se

Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

[Wiseman, Joshua]

I was part of the TC61 MT that did this work for the Commercial Cooking Equip. 
There are a number of zones called out, Non-functional hot surface and Adjacent 
surface. I recall there being at least one more term but it escapes me at the 
moment.

Josh


From: Charlie Blackham 
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2021 3:19 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action


Scott

I've not read it (44 pages) but EU LVD market enforcement did a report 
"Non-functional Hot Surfaces Project"

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/5263/attachments/1/translations

Some standards, such as EN 60335-2-9 (Household and similar electrical 
appliances - Safety - Part 2-9: Particular requirements for grills, toasters 
and similar portable cooking appliances) have different limits if equipment is 
labelled

The ISO symbol IEC 60417 - 5041, Caution, hot surface 
(iso.org),
 is often referred to, but I'm not aware that colours or contrast is mandated

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Brian Kunde mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 26 May 2021 18:08
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

Usually, high-temperature surface warning symbols are only required if the 
hazard is not obvious.  So in ovens, stovetops, griddles, toasters, heat-sinks, 
etc. do not require them.

However, if such appliances or device have areas that are hot but it is not 
obvious it is hot, a warning symbol might be required.

At home, I have a 2-slice toaster. It is a "Cool Touch" toaster that has no hot 
exposed surfaces, except from the small surface between the two slots on the 
top.  So the manufacturer engraved the symbol on the metal surface.  Not a bad 
idea.  But back in the day, the sides of a toaster got really hot; hot enough 
to melt the Wonder Bread bag.  As a kid, I think every toaster I ever saw had a 
Wonder Bread bag melted on the side.

The Other Brian

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 10:04 AM Scott Xe 
mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> wrote:
In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause burn 
injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to alert the 
users.

  *   Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black 
colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
  *   Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in EU 
criteria perspective?
  *   In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot surface or 
next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours are protected 
from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be used to withstand 
higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for verification?
Thanks and regards,

Scott
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign

[Scott Xe]

Dear Charlie,

Thanks for the useful information!  I really discover such sign is commonly
on MWOs, induction cookers, sandwich makers, etc.  The document contains
greater detail about this sign.

Best regards,

Scott

On Thu, 27 May 2021 at 03:19, Charlie Blackham 
wrote:

> Scott
>
>
>
> I’ve not read it (44 pages) but EU LVD market enforcement did a report 
> “Non-functional
> Hot Surfaces Project”
>
>
>
> https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/5263/attachments/1/translations
>
>
>
> Some standards, such as EN 60335-2-9 (Household and similar electrical
> appliances - Safety - Part 2-9: Particular requirements for grills,
> toasters and similar portable cooking appliances) have different limits if
> equipment is labelled
>
>
>
> The ISO symbol IEC 60417 - 5041, Caution, hot surface (iso.org)
> , is often referred to,
> but I’m not aware that colours or contrast is mandated
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
> *Charlie Blackham*
>
> *Sulis Consultants Ltd*
>
> *Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317*
>
> *Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/  *
>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>
>
>
> *From:* Brian Kunde 
> *Sent:* 26 May 2021 18:08
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign
>
>
>
> Usually, high-temperature surface warning symbols are only required if the
> hazard is not obvious.  So in ovens, stovetops, griddles, toasters,
> heat-sinks, etc. do not require them.
>
>
>
> However, if such appliances or device have areas that are hot but it is
> not obvious it is hot, a warning symbol might be required.
>
>
>
> At home, I have a 2-slice toaster. It is a "Cool Touch" toaster that has
> no hot exposed surfaces, except from the small surface between the two
> slots on the top.  So the manufacturer engraved the symbol on the metal
> surface.  Not a bad idea.  But back in the day, the sides of a toaster got
> really hot; hot enough to melt the Wonder Bread bag.  As a kid, I think
> every toaster I ever saw had a Wonder Bread bag melted on the side.
>
>
>
> The Other Brian
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 10:04 AM Scott Xe  wrote:
>
> In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause
> burn injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to
> alert the users.
>
>- Is there any specific colour requirement?  Common practice is black
>colour on yellow background or white colour on black background.
>- Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in
>EU criteria perspective?
>- In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot
>surface or next to the hot surface?  If on the top of surface, the colours
>are protected from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be
>used to withstand higher temperatures.  Is there any test criteria for
>verification?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
>
>
> Scott
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society em