Re: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion

2017-04-05 Thread Doug Powell 
  Bostjan,Thank you, I am also familiar with Working Voltage.  And I sometimes add 'long term working voltage'.  On occasion, some engineers have attempted to use the isolation voltage of a component as the voltage rating. Most often the isolation voltage is the 60 second dielectric test voltage.  And so, on it goes...All my best,  DougFrom: bostjan.gla...@siq.siSent: April 5, 2017 6:08 PMTo: doug...@gmail.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSubject: RE: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion  







Hi Doug,
 
I am familiar with expressions: operational voltage range  and rated voltage range. Operational voltage range is in fact
 rated voltage range with tolerances. In your case 85-264V is operational voltage range, while unit is rated 100-240V. tolerances on rated voltages in your case are -15%/+10%.
 
I hope this helps a bit.
 
Best regards,
Bostjan
 
 
 
From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 12:52 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion
 


Hi all,


 


Has anyone found a good way to explain to non-compliance types the difference between voltage rating and voltage specification?  After all these years I still run into this discussion and have not found a good way to clear the air.


 


A classic example is an open frame AC/DC power supply used to produce the housekeeping voltages within a larger product.  In a recent example, the PSU datasheet stated the voltage input range as 85 to 264 VAC.  This is great and I really
 like that specification. However, I also had a design engineer who took those numbers from the datasheet and transcribed them directly to the rating label of his product.  As a result the agency engineer wanted to apply the
±10% rule to the rating label voltage and the rating tests were then 76.5 to 290.4 VAC (this was not an ITE product).  Note: a little quick math shows that the 264 VAC upper limit of the
 PSU is actually a result of 240 V plus 10%. 


 


All this seems obvious to me but apparently not to everyone ... and maybe it's me who is just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.


 


I would be grateful to hear any experiences where explanations were successful and lasting.


 


 

-- 





 

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01





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Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification

2017-04-05 Thread Doug Powell 
  Dave, I like you motor example.  It's one more bit I can add to make my case.  I guess I'm resigned to always having to explain this.  best, dougFrom: dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.comSent: April 5, 2017 5:43 PMTo: doug...@gmail.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSubject: RE: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification  







Ha!  Age old problem.  Just have to explain it as you did.  And also for the end product consumer nameplate I don’t put the +-10% rating on the plate.  Had
 a major motor manufacturer recently trying to tell me that the motor they have rated for 230V was OK to run at 208V because it’s good for 230 +-10%. Had to explain to them that I need it to run at 208V – 10%.  Crickets on that one.
A previous motor from that manufacturer was rated for something like 208V @60Hz but 190V @50Hz and sure enough when tested at 208V + 10% @ 50Hz the windings
 saturated and drew crazy current.  
 
Likewise have to explain to design engineers that they cannot use a 230V motor in the product rated at 208V and rate the end product at 208V – 0%.
 
-Dave
 
From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 6:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion
 


Hi all,


 


Has anyone found a good way to explain to non-compliance types the difference between voltage rating and voltage specification?  After all these years I still run into this discussion and have not found a good way to clear the air.


 


A classic example is an open frame AC/DC power supply used to produce the housekeeping voltages within a larger product.  In a recent example, the PSU datasheet stated the voltage input range as 85 to 264 VAC.  This is great and I really
 like that specification. However, I also had a design engineer who took those numbers from the datasheet and transcribed them directly to the rating label of his product.  As a result the agency engineer wanted to apply the
±10% rule to the rating label voltage and the rating tests were then 76.5 to 290.4 VAC (this was not an ITE product).  Note: a little quick math shows that the 264 VAC upper limit of the
 PSU is actually a result of 240 V plus 10%. 


 


All this seems obvious to me but apparently not to everyone ... and maybe it's me who is just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.


 


I would be grateful to hear any experiences where explanations were successful and lasting.


 


 

-- 





 

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01





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Re: [PSES] Voltage Rating vs Voltage Specification

2017-04-05 Thread Nyffenegger, Dave 
Ha!  Age old problem.  Just have to explain it as you did.  And also for the 
end product consumer nameplate I don’t put the +-10% rating on the plate.  Had 
a major motor manufacturer recently trying to tell me that the motor they have 
rated for 230V was OK to run at 208V because it’s good for 230 +-10%. Had to 
explain to them that I need it to run at 208V – 10%.  Crickets on that one.
A previous motor from that manufacturer was rated for something like 208V @60Hz 
but 190V @50Hz and sure enough when tested at 208V + 10% @ 50Hz the windings 
saturated and drew crazy current.

Likewise have to explain to design engineers that they cannot use a 230V motor 
in the product rated at 208V and rate the end product at 208V – 0%.

-Dave

From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 6:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion

Hi all,

Has anyone found a good way to explain to non-compliance types the difference 
between voltage rating and voltage specification?  After all these years I 
still run into this discussion and have not found a good way to clear the air.

A classic example is an open frame AC/DC power supply used to produce the 
housekeeping voltages within a larger product.  In a recent example, the PSU 
datasheet stated the voltage input range as 85 to 264 VAC.  This is great and I 
really like that specification. However, I also had a design engineer who took 
those numbers from the datasheet and transcribed them directly to the rating 
label of his product.  As a result the agency engineer wanted to apply the ±10% 
rule to the rating label voltage and the rating tests were then 76.5 to 290.4 
VAC (this was not an ITE product).  Note: a little quick math shows that the 
264 VAC upper limit of the PSU is actually a result of 240 V plus 10%.

All this seems obvious to me but apparently not to everyone ... and maybe it's 
me who is just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

I would be grateful to hear any experiences where explanations were successful 
and lasting.


--

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

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Re: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion

2017-04-05 Thread Boštjan Glavič 
Hi Doug,

I am familiar with expressions: operational voltage range  and rated voltage 
range. Operational voltage range is in fact rated voltage range with 
tolerances. In your case 85-264V is operational voltage range, while unit is 
rated 100-240V. tolerances on rated voltages in your case are -15%/+10%.

I hope this helps a bit.

Best regards,
Bostjan



From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 12:52 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion

Hi all,

Has anyone found a good way to explain to non-compliance types the difference 
between voltage rating and voltage specification?  After all these years I 
still run into this discussion and have not found a good way to clear the air.

A classic example is an open frame AC/DC power supply used to produce the 
housekeeping voltages within a larger product.  In a recent example, the PSU 
datasheet stated the voltage input range as 85 to 264 VAC.  This is great and I 
really like that specification. However, I also had a design engineer who took 
those numbers from the datasheet and transcribed them directly to the rating 
label of his product.  As a result the agency engineer wanted to apply the ±10% 
rule to the rating label voltage and the rating tests were then 76.5 to 290.4 
VAC (this was not an ITE product).  Note: a little quick math shows that the 
264 VAC upper limit of the PSU is actually a result of 240 V plus 10%.

All this seems obvious to me but apparently not to everyone ... and maybe it's 
me who is just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

I would be grateful to hear any experiences where explanations were successful 
and lasting.


--

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
-


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[PSES] Votlage Rating vs Voltage Specificaion

2017-04-05 Thread Doug Powell 
Hi all,

Has anyone found a good way to explain to non-compliance types the
difference between voltage rating and voltage specification?  After all
these years I still run into this discussion and have not found a good way
to clear the air.

A classic example is an open frame AC/DC power supply used to produce the
housekeeping voltages within a larger product.  In a recent example, the
PSU datasheet stated the voltage input range as 85 to 264 VAC.  This is
great and I really like that specification. However, I also had a design
engineer who took those numbers from the datasheet and transcribed them
directly to the rating label of his product.  As a result the agency
engineer wanted to apply the ±10% rule to the rating label voltage and the
rating tests were then 76.5 to 290.4 VAC (this was not an ITE product).
Note: a little quick math shows that the 264 VAC upper limit of the PSU is
actually a result of 240 V plus 10%.

All this seems obvious to me but apparently not to everyone ... and maybe
it's me who is just a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

I would be grateful to hear any experiences where explanations were
successful and lasting.


-- 

Douglas E Powell

doug...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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[PSES] Marine Radar test labs for ETSI EN 302 248

2017-04-05 Thread Sundstrom, Mike 
Hello everyone,
I'm looking for test labs which can test to the Marine Radar standard of EN 302 
248 (RE_D version).

Any leads greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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