Re: [PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law
Thank you, Do you have a specific L###? That an update was published under. There are quite a few. and digging... but not seeing one with Harmonized Standards. Adam Rudd Senior Engineer, EMC Certification NCR Corporation O: 770.495.2825 adam.r...@ncr.com | www.ncr.com -Original Message- From: Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:12 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Harmonised Standards ->Official EU law *External Message* - Use caution before opening links or attachments Note that publication/citation of harmonised standards in Europe from now on (12/2018) will take place in the L section of the OJ, effectively allowing them the status of EU -law. A first standard on Accessibility of (governmental) Websites has already been published. Gert Gremmen -- Independent Expert on CE marking Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC EMC Consultant Electrical Safety Consultant - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html=DwICaQ=gJN2jf8AyP5Q6Np0yWY19w=SI5lIIvk99TfS0kaQuJC1HzfRsUiqX-5R-eiX__GLpw=W_TRF1e1KzG1XJOfldnMRTL_2YTG4uUn7nfMVNQm5no=IBd7D6XDVf4awbbmB3NFN7y3LWHbgZhiPY2yQZp01fM= Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_=DwICaQ=gJN2jf8AyP5Q6Np0yWY19w=SI5lIIvk99TfS0kaQuJC1HzfRsUiqX-5R-eiX__GLpw=W_TRF1e1KzG1XJOfldnMRTL_2YTG4uUn7nfMVNQm5no=FQ60olz0RAPbYgEFKbSL5OIPdstoaDueRux-aUpxYz4= can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_=DwICaQ=gJN2jf8AyP5Q6Np0yWY19w=SI5lIIvk99TfS0kaQuJC1HzfRsUiqX-5R-eiX__GLpw=W_TRF1e1KzG1XJOfldnMRTL_2YTG4uUn7nfMVNQm5no=5hkzQOOPdWF2GBArIeHG5h6IcFt8o3v8K3WvQ_UmCd0= Instructions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html=DwICaQ=gJN2jf8AyP5Q6Np0yWY19w=SI5lIIvk99TfS0kaQuJC1HzfRsUiqX-5R-eiX__GLpw=W_TRF1e1KzG1XJOfldnMRTL_2YTG4uUn7nfMVNQm5no=Sb4Ur44jPibJbNBl_jT-feIYEniMS3nS0Wcie-fS5Mw= (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html=DwICaQ=gJN2jf8AyP5Q6Np0yWY19w=SI5lIIvk99TfS0kaQuJC1HzfRsUiqX-5R-eiX__GLpw=W_TRF1e1KzG1XJOfldnMRTL_2YTG4uUn7nfMVNQm5no=z04MGHZFmhKLJrlHkq56yBs0W7odnY-aa3mq5vJ45ws= For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables
It's all in Part 15, spread about. 47CFR15.27 47CFR15.31(j) -Original Message- From: Scott Douglas [mailto:sdouglas...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 2:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: [PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables Fellow List persons... Please help refresh a tired brain. A designer of a product tells us that he passes FCC emissions testing if he puts ferrite sleeves (beads?) on the four HDMI cables connected at the rear panel of the product. He tells us that all he needs to do is add a statement in the user manual to the effect that the HDMI output cables must have ferrite sleeves (beads?) on them. He says he does not need to specify manufacturer name and part number of the ferrites. He says he does not need to provide the ferrites with the product. He also does not plan to include the HDMI output cables with the product because every installation will have different length HDMI cables needed. Now, my old brain thinks the above is not acceptable and that the FCC says that anything special needed to pass FCC testing must be provided with the product. And I am thinking that ferrites are special as you can't get them at Walmart or Radio Shack or Ace Hardware. And not all ferrites are the same. Can anyone confirm my memory and maybe give a pointer to the part of the FCC Rules that clarify this? Or have the rules changed over the years and I just missed that part? Thank you in advance for any and all comments, on list or off. Best regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Mobile Compliance
I like DropBox for static files for static documents, PDF standards and processes, receipts etc. Google Drive, with editable spreadsheets, are quite usable from tablet/smartphone… If you go easy on vB and stick with basic formula. Evernote is fantastic for sync. Their sister app Skitch is great for marking up documents and photos. Ensure you have two-factor authentication enabled on all accounts. Theft should be a non-issue. From remote wipe offered through iCloud account. Secures data. To Activation Lock provided by iCloud account, which has no as of yet known bypass. Renders device inoperable without your AppleID credentials. From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 2:37 AM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: [PSES] Mobile Compliance All, In addition to managing email and calendar, I have taken steps to actively use my smartphone while doing compliance work. Theoretically this could include a number of ideas for Product Safety and EMC. I believe many folks now use memory cards to store standards in PDF form for handy access, but I'm now thinking about doing a little more than that. For example, I am doing some consulting and I have saved an XLS spreadsheet in my dropbox folders for time tracking, quoting and few other other administrative tasks. I can access these equally from my notebook computer and my smartphone. One advantage of the smartphone is its always running and I don't have wake up my notebook computer to update some bit of information. I have an HDMI Port for presentations and video. I also have the ability to print forms over WiFi from my smartphone. With 32GB of memory, there's plenty of room to store files (I know, security is a concern and I am constantly aware of theft issues). I have considered doing some compliance engineering tools which can be run as a spreadsheet on a mobile device. Some basic examples might include lookup tables, quantity conversions, field strength conversions, interpolate antenna distances, altitude corrections, wire gauge, and spacings determination. Is this something compliance professionals are doing now or have considered for the future? And are smartphones, notebooks, tablets or possibly thumb drives preferred? Please, no discussion about brand loyalty (Apple, Android, BlackBerry, Samsung, etc.). Thanks, - doug Douglas Powell http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: New Product Proposal
You can find the parts for these for $0 laying around in scrap parts, or computer junk bins. You don't have to use something as expensive as an HD drive laser. An old discarded, or obsolete PC DVD-writer can do the same. All it takes is the parts from the drive plus a couple of AA's and a mag-light type flashlight. If memory serves, we measured 108mW (and some people are supposedly reaching 200). We can light matches, pop balloons, burn engravings in black plastic like the backside of my dvd player's remote =) Very fun geeky project. The only difference is the DVD laser is red instead of blue. Like many things (firearms, automobiles, airsoft/paintball toy-guns, potato-canons), there is little relative danger when used responsibly. For other, illegal uses, I think we already have laws against robbery and assault (no matter what kind of weapon used, firearm, pipe, knife, etc) which should handle such misuse. Be careful drawing parallels between different industries such as lasers and firearms. A person's right to life is a natural/human right and for 100's of years firearms have been the primary means for securing that right as well as being constitutionally protected (at least for US citizens). Laser devices are not. Considering that these flashlight-lasers are extremely easy and cheap to make, the instructions are posted all over the internet (which is virtually impossible to regulate due to scope, international spread of web hosts, and protected free-speech). I can't imagine there is much any committee or government can hope to do other than report violations to the appropriate authorities. I certainly see no need for new regulations. To those with more experience with the FDA, how would they respond if this individual was reported to them? Would the FDA even bat an eye over an individual? Adam Rudd From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:23 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: New Product Proposal This list is to address regulations regarding EMC and product safety. I agree with Lee that the topic is straying too far from the central purpose of the list. I have no objection to the free discussion of various topics. Personally, I rather be exposed to as many views and as much information as possible to allow me to make an informed view. However, there are members of this list who may feel uncomfortable when some topics unrelated to EMC or product safety are discussed. The list is best served by maintaining a larger membership that is willing to contribute. Even the original post in this series may be considered outside of the core intent of the list. The laser in question is clearly being abused. Somebody went through some work to create a potentially dangerous product. There are regulations regarding the use of Class 3 lasers and the product for sale is sold without the approvals, documentation and warnings to the user. I rather see people discuss what regulations apply to such a product and how to sell it appropriately, if at all. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: New Product Proposal Hi Lee, I disagree: this list addresses regulations, and discussing excessive regulation is totally appropriate. You cant say things are bad without hearing the opposite side of the argument. Sincerely, Derek. PS, see you in Austin? Lee Hill wrote: I feel this topic is getting outside of the intended purpose of the list-server Lee -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:33 AM To: James, Chris Cc: Taylor, Michael; Oscar Overton; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: New Product Proposal Hi Chris, We all know banning doesn't work, history has shown that: and the Darwin awards showcase gene pool removal. I feel safer in Texas, or Arizona, where I know if someone tries a stunt with a weapon that 1/2 the resteraunt will stop him/her before a carnage will occur. I no longer feel safe like that in Manchester or Warrington where I grew up. I've lived in these places, so thats my experience. Not trying to advocate guns etc, just stress banning doesn't work. That just means the bad guys/gals have the things being banned. So to answer your question, yes, I tolerate some idiots. Better one or two crazys being dealt with than the rest of us becoming vanilla... Go after the crazies. Cheers, Derek. James, Chris wrote: So you are happy to have zip guns, modified air weapons firing live rounds and the like on the street too - seems like this device would be equally good for mugging
RE: New Product Proposal
A little further investigation and I found this on the FDA/CDRH website. It specifically addresses the current wave of non-conforming lasers being sold over the internet and includes a method for reporting such violations. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhealth/products/internetlasers.html Adam Rudd EMC Engineer NCR Corporation phone:770.495.2825 adam.r...@ncr.com | www.ncr.com From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Rudd, Adam Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: New Product Proposal You can find the parts for these for $0 laying around in scrap parts, or computer junk bins. You don't have to use something as expensive as an HD drive laser. An old discarded, or obsolete PC DVD-writer can do the same. All it takes is the parts from the drive plus a couple of AA's and a mag-light type flashlight. If memory serves, we measured 108mW (and some people are supposedly reaching 200). We can light matches, pop balloons, burn engravings in black plastic like the backside of my dvd player's remote =) Very fun geeky project. The only difference is the DVD laser is red instead of blue. Like many things (firearms, automobiles, airsoft/paintball toy-guns, potato-canons), there is little relative danger when used responsibly. For other, illegal uses, I think we already have laws against robbery and assault (no matter what kind of weapon used, firearm, pipe, knife, etc) which should handle such misuse. Be careful drawing parallels between different industries such as lasers and firearms. A person's right to life is a natural/human right and for 100's of years firearms have been the primary means for securing that right as well as being constitutionally protected (at least for US citizens). Laser devices are not. Considering that these flashlight-lasers are extremely easy and cheap to make, the instructions are posted all over the internet (which is virtually impossible to regulate due to scope, international spread of web hosts, and protected free-speech). I can't imagine there is much any committee or government can hope to do other than report violations to the appropriate authorities. I certainly see no need for new regulations. To those with more experience with the FDA, how would they respond if this individual was reported to them? Would the FDA even bat an eye over an individual? Adam Rudd From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:23 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: New Product Proposal This list is to address regulations regarding EMC and product safety. I agree with Lee that the topic is straying too far from the central purpose of the list. I have no objection to the free discussion of various topics. Personally, I rather be exposed to as many views and as much information as possible to allow me to make an informed view. However, there are members of this list who may feel uncomfortable when some topics unrelated to EMC or product safety are discussed. The list is best served by maintaining a larger membership that is willing to contribute. Even the original post in this series may be considered outside of the core intent of the list. The laser in question is clearly being abused. Somebody went through some work to create a potentially dangerous product. There are regulations regarding the use of Class 3 lasers and the product for sale is sold without the approvals, documentation and warnings to the user. I rather see people discuss what regulations apply to such a product and how to sell it appropriately, if at all. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:57 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: New Product Proposal Hi Lee, I disagree: this list addresses regulations, and discussing excessive regulation is totally appropriate. You cant say things are bad without hearing the opposite side of the argument. Sincerely, Derek. PS, see you in Austin? Lee Hill wrote: I feel this topic is getting outside of the intended purpose of the list-server Lee -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:33 AM To: James, Chris Cc: Taylor, Michael; Oscar Overton; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: New Product Proposal Hi Chris, We all know banning doesn't work, history has shown that: and the Darwin awards showcase gene pool removal. I feel safer in Texas, or Arizona, where I know if someone tries a stunt with a weapon that 1/2 the resteraunt will stop him/her before a carnage will occur. I no longer feel safe like that in Manchester or Warrington where I grew up
Radio module integration (Part 22/24)
Gentlemen, Does the FCC have any regulations or guidance for integrating a radio device into a larger system, specifically for a part 22/24 radio where the device will be concealed from view? Per 15.212, there is a lot of criteria involving the device having a Grant with Modular Approval and then if the integrator conceals the radio module’s FCC ID from view we must put a label on the outside that says “Contains FCC ID:xx”. I’m quite familiar with these requirements for 802.11 and RFID radio devices. But that code section is strictly for unlicensed part 15 transmitters. What about licensed Part 22 and 24 transmitters such as cellular radio devices such as: FCC ID N7NAC875 https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/rep rts/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits RequestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Nap lication_id=184431fcc_id=%27N7NAC875%27 Note: Does not have “modular approval”, but that was a requirement under part 15.212… which may or may not be applicable here. I have submitted an inquiry with the FCC OET. But that usually take a couple weeks to get a responce. I am hoping someone here might be able to point me toward the rule section of Part 22 and 24 that would provide guidance. Thank you! Adam Rudd - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Radio module integration (Part 22/24)
Dennis, Thank you! Where did you get your information? I got a response to my inquiry into the FCC faster than normal. It seems like they have a fairly generic form they send out for questions concerning modular licensed transmitters. It’s also very similar to what you have outlined, except you provided even more insight regarding changing out antennas. Though, I imagine if we had an actual modularly approved radio device, the user guide or the grant would have notes listed antenna requirements. Response: General guidance for licensed-service module-like (licensed module) transmitters for use in final products: Modular Approval procedures in FCC Public Notice DA-00-1407 are for Part 15 devices only [see also 47 CFR 15.212 (FCC 07-56)]. The FCC does not have corresponding procedures for modules in licensed radio services. The requirements of 15.203 (unique antenna) and 15.204 (transmitter and antenna marketed as complete system) are not directly applicable for licensed modules. Generic licensed modules without specific antennas may be certified for use only in final products operating in fixed or mobile RF exposure conditions. Maximum antenna gain, to ensure compliance with RF exposure limits and/or categorical exclusions, is listed in the remarks field of the grant certificate. Maximum allowed antenna gain shall account not just for compliance with MPE limits but also with service-rule ERP / EIRP limits, where applicable. A licensed module must have an FCC ID label on the module itself, visible through a window on the final device or when an access cover is easily removed; if not visible, a second label must be placed on the outside of the final product stating: Contains FCC ID: 01234567. The device description or grant remarks fields of the grant certificate must include the words modular transmitter or transmitter module. Other than for RF exposure and radiated power and/or emissions test requirements, when applicable, additional equipment authorizations are not needed when a licensed module is used in a final product (1.1307 fixed or 2.1091 mobile) that meets all the following: a) Final product complies with device use conditions and any grant remarks, conditions, and limitations described in the module FCC ID filing. b) Final antenna configuration(s) and use conditions comply with applicable licensed-service rules. c) Original test data in the module FCC ID filing continues to represent characteristics of the final product containing module-like device. d) Final product has FCC ID label, as described above. Licensed modules with specific antennas may be certified for use in certain final products operating in portable RF exposure conditions for configurations and procedures described in published KDB 447498. Licensed modules intended for end-user installation in notebook and tablet computers or similar devices, with pre-installed antennas which would operate in portable RF exposure conditions, must utilize some type of bidirectional authentication function to ensure that only combinations for which SAR routine evaluation has been performed are used together. 2.1033(c)(3) requires device operating and installation instructions to be submitted during equipment certification, which should include antenna installation info to support FCC RF exposure compliance. The FCC does not issue equipment-authorization certifications for licensed modules intended for use in mobile-phone handsets. Applications for licensed radio cards using a BIOS-lock function, similar to as used for some Part 15 modules, have been allowed for TCBs. Applications using other authentication techniques must contact the FCC. Module-like transmitters are peripheral to a host and are typically plugged into an externally accessible standard bus on such hosts. Examples of such industry defined standard bus interfaces are PCMCIA (PC Card), SDIO or CompactFlash slots on laptop computers or PDAs (FCC 07-56 footnote 18). A module-like intentional radiator or transmitter device without modular approval grant integrated as a component within a specific final product requires new application under 2.1033(b) or 2.1033(c). Best Regards, Adam Rudd Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation - RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 From: dward [mailto:dw...@atcb.com] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:35 PM To: wdows...@yahoo.com; Rudd, Adam; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Radio module integration (Part 22/24) The FCC has two different approaches to part 15 and to licensed modules, but many of the same issues apply to both. The FCC for example only has ONE modular approval docket DA001407 and that deals ONLY with part 15 modules. However, the FCC also recognizes that licensed devices may also be of a modular nature and so, while there really is no modular approval docket for licensed devices like there is for unlicensed part
RE: Class A antenna distance
47CFR 15.31(f)(1) allows measurements at distances other than specified and details the extrapolation factor. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr15.31.htm EN 55022 Section 10.2.1 has a note that specifically makes an allowance for Class B devices to be measured at 3m. I tend to think the detail of Class B being included and Class A being omitted from the note has significance. Best Regards, Adam Rudd Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation, RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of emcp...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 2:26 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: (no subject) Dear members, I have a question on the use of a 3 meter fully anechoic chamber. Can this 3 meter chamber be used to qualify a product for FCC or CISPR class A, since the required test distance is 10 meter? Please provide any reference to paragraphs in the standards. Your responses are appreciated. Thanks, Timothy A. Pierce Tap Engineering, Inc. Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today http://www.fanhouse.com fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr000520 . - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
EMC in the news: RFID Medical
“The latest research, conducted at Vrije University in Amsterdam, tested the effect of holding both passive and powered RFIDs close to 41 medical devices, including ventilators, syringe pumps, dialysis machines and pacemakers. A total of 123 tests, three on each machine, were carried out, and 34 produced an incident in which the RFID appeared to have an effect - 24 of which were deemed either significant or hazardous. In some tests, RFIDs either switched off or changed the settings on mechanical ventilators, completely stopped the working of syringe pumps, caused external pacemakers to malfunction, and halted dialysis machines. The device did not have to be held right up to the machine to make this happen - some hazardous incidents happened when the RFID was more than 10 inches away.” --http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7471008.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7471008.stm Best Regards, Adam Rudd Electrical Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation, RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: OATS tests after rain
Mac, I have witnessed significant variations in measurements depending on if the OATS was wet or not. It was several dB, and that amount varied a lot over the frequency range. Additionally, IIRC the way it varied over frequency was also not particularly constant rain storm to rain storm. I don’t have any solid numbers or plots to share though, just that we avoided it whenever scheduling allowed. These days, I only have a semi-anechoic chamber; however, once we have results that we are happy with and that meet internal guidelines, we send the EUT to a third party test lab for official verification where they use an OATS. It has a tent that covers just the EUT area, not the entire 10 meter site, so there is plenty of area for water to puddle up. We have them test rain or shine, whatever they are comfortable with, which I think as long as there is no lightning posing a safety hazard they will run the test. If my margins are where I want them to be, 6dB+, I’m pretty confident it will pass. The EUT has been thoroughly tested in my chamber, so I have results that reflect normal conditions; I just need some results from an accredited laboratory to show that I am passing, to put in my final report, and to base my conformity statements on. Best Regards, Adam Rudd Electrical Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation, RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Elliott Mac-FME001 Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:20 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: OATS tests after rain Hello Colleagues After rain on an OATS, what are your typical guidelines for the resumption of test? I worked with one great engineer on this board at one time who had seen dramatic differences on his OATS after rain and would shut down until the next day when the site was dry. We are trying to run two shifts here and in S. Florida have afternoon rains that are frequently short in duration. I have done a few experiments that shows that it seems OK as long once the rain has stopped and any standing water has run off. There are some damp spots under the ground mesh and maybe some residual moisture on the mesh. Thoughts? Experiences? Regards, Mac Elliott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Accessory
Bob, I think Section 8.2 of EN 55022 is where you want to look for the answer to that. It starts off with: For a personal computer or a personal computer peripheral, the minimum configuration consists of... Best Regards, Adam Rudd Electrical Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation, RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rehel...@mmm.com Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:58 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Accessory For Europe, can you test an accessory by itself (such as a printer in self-print mode with the proper cabling hanging off it) or do you have to test it in a typical user system configuration (hanging off a computer)? Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 = - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Korea EMC standards
Laws and Rules (Most of these have English copies) http://www.rrl.go.kr/join/databoard/law/list.jsp?lw_type=0 ITE Standards (most of these unfortunately do not have English copies) http://www.rrl.go.kr/join/databoard/law/list.jsp?lw_type=4 However, down the page is this document, which is in English, and might prove useful for you. “Recently revised Korea EMI_EMS standards on ITE” http://www.rrl.go.kr/join/databoard/law/view.jsp?lw_type=4lw_seq=116 Best Regards, Adam Rudd Electrical Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation, RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Bill Stumpf Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:15 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Korea EMC standards Anyone know where I can find Korea EMC standards in English? Thanks, Bill Stumpf - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN (SPECIFIC )STANDARDS VS THE ~ EQUIVALENT IEC STANDARDS
Monrad, My copy, SS-EN 55024, has an Endorsement Notice on page 3 which lists the modifications CENELEC made to IEC CISPR 24 for the EN 55024 publication. Additionally, it notes that CENELEC added Annex ZA. Annex ZA is found on page 5. It lists the normative references and shows the correlation between European and International standards which has this following note… “NOTE: When an international publication has been modified by common modifications, indicated by (mod), the relevant EN/HD applies.” Does your copy have these sections? Best Regards, Adam Rudd Electrical Engineer (EMC) NCR Corporation, RHSS Duluth, GA (770) 495-2825 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Monrad Monsen Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:36 PM To: John Woodgate Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: EN (SPECIFIC )STANDARDS VS THE ~ EQUIVALENT IEC STANDARDS John, I don't know what version of EN55024 you are looking at, but EN55024:1998 only references the IEC standards for each immunity test. For example, Table 1 for enclosure port immunity lists the standard IEC 61000-4-2 for Electrostatic Discharge. In fact, all of the standards listed in the section 2 Normative References are IEC standards ... not EN standards. This did not change with amendments A1:2001 and A2:2003. To Doug Kramer's point, it would be unwise to look for the EN61000-4-2 standard when EN55024 specifies use of the IEC61000-4-2 standard. Monrad L. Monsen Compliance Program Manager Storage Group Sun Microsystems monrad.mon...@sun.com 303.272.9612 Office John Woodgate wrote: In message 79b6babf7ce2914591e1c45c7ed086fa01d...@chiefwiggum.nceelabs.org mailto:79b6babf7ce2914591e1c45c7ed086fa01d...@chiefwiggum.nceelabs.org , dated Thu, 8 May 2008, Doug Kramer dkra...@nceelabs.com mailto:dkra...@nceelabs.com writes: If EN 55024 calls out testing to IEC 61000-4-4, use of EN61000-4-4 (what's the date on that?) would not be the correct approach. I don't think there is any such case. All references in all EN Product and Generic standards are to the EN 61000-4-x. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
