Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Li-Fi

[Adam Dixon]

I am skeptical about 100's of Mbps+, but is application-dependent and will
be well-above that of a Naval signalman's morse code.  ;-)  I wouldn't want
to have many/all the lights in my home on, even if highly dimmed, just so
laptop can talk with printer in the next room, let alone if I am in the
basement where WiFi works fine.  Bulb cost burden is a consideration.  For
industrial/office environments where lights are always on, perhaps it's a
good application for building infrastructure/M2M comms where the bit rate
attainable from reflected signal rather than line of sight is sufficient.
But there again we already have wireless comms built into luminaires (at
some cost), so it's back to application parameters:  noise immunity,
distance, localization, security, cost and so on.

The concept is similar to what occurs in laser barcode scannersfor the
past 25+ years.  A well-designed physical layer transmitter/receiver to
handle ambient conditions (line of sight vs reflected, distance) + higher
layer protocol functions (filtering/signal extraction/error correction to
build on photodiode transimpedance amplifier performance, point-to-point vs
mesh, etc.) and the architecture takes shape.  The laser barcode scanner is
very short distance (inches) by comparison.

There is enough LiFi IP on record to where a push to commercialize seems to
be progressing.  Will be interesting to see if it develops into a
sustainable technology.


Cheers,
Adam in Atlanta

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Amund Westin 
wrote:

> I try to see Li-Fi as a good idea, but is it realistic to make such devices
> / system within the next years  ?
> And what is next years? ... I find it hard that Li-Fi should outperform
> regular radiocommunication (kHz to GHz).
>
> Cheers
> Amund
>
>
>
>
>
> -Opprinnelig melding-
> Fra: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
> Sendt: 11. desember 2017 20:36
> Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Emne: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi
>
> Three observations.
> 1. would have side-effects somewhat analogous to BPL on EMC. And the
> up/down
> rate would probably have same problems and delay as satellite internet.
> 2.  different modality of old tech - remember the science fair projects
> using laser com from bazillions years past?
> 3. Ted said that he 'discounted' TED talks  (we had thought they were named
> for him).
>
> Some references
> 0. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light_communication
> 1. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication
> 2. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi
> 3. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
>
> Brian
>
>
> From: Edward Price [mailto:e...@jwjelp.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 10:44 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi
>
> I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in
> the
> 90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were
> suggesting
> it for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking
> test equipment into a lab's mini-computer.
>
> While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet
> inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the
> first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead
> of
> the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still
> haven't eliminated rain, smoke and fog.
>
> Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic
> engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into
> the details?
>
> Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more
> attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.
>
> Ed Price
> WB6WSN
> Chula Vista, CA USA
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi
>
> I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the
> light very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle
> for transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over
> voice band land lines)
>
> Ralph McDiarmid
> Product Compliance
> Engineering
> Solar Business
> Schneider Electric
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi
>
> I came over this video 
> https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_
> new_kind_of_wireless_in
> ternet#t-432451
>
> Anyone who have studied this tech?
>
> Cheers,
> Amund
> David Heald 
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on 

[PSES] SV: [PSES] Li-Fi

[Amund Westin]

I try to see Li-Fi as a good idea, but is it realistic to make such devices
/ system within the next years  ?
And what is next years? ... I find it hard that Li-Fi should outperform
regular radiocommunication (kHz to GHz).

Cheers
Amund





-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sendt: 11. desember 2017 20:36
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

Three observations.
1. would have side-effects somewhat analogous to BPL on EMC. And the up/down
rate would probably have same problems and delay as satellite internet.
2.  different modality of old tech - remember the science fair projects
using laser com from bazillions years past?
3. Ted said that he 'discounted' TED talks  (we had thought they were named
for him).

Some references
0. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_light_communication
1. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_optical_communication
2. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi
3. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA

Brian


From: Edward Price [mailto:e...@jwjelp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 10:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

I seem to recall HP was touting some kind of optical link system back in the
90's. (IIRC, it was omni-directional infrared.) I think they were suggesting
it for sharing of a printer within a multi-computer office, or for linking
test equipment into a lab's mini-computer.

While I can see some uses where a modulated light source, powerful yet
inexpensive, would be a good data link, I can also see a few problems, the
first of which is bi-directionality and the second is data capacity ahead of
the optical links. As for his hints of vehicular applications, we still
haven't eliminated rain, smoke and fog.

Call me cynical, but whenever somebody puts a box on stage and does magic
engineering, I become skeptical. Whaddya mean, you don't want to get into
the details?

Altogether, Li-Fi is yet another path. Ubiquitous LED's make it more
attractive, but not quite a standing ovation quality concept.

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Li-Fi

I haven't studied it, but seems to me that one would need to modulate the
light very quickly to get any sort of usable BAUD rate, unless you settle
for transmission of text only.  (like the good old Bell 202 modems over
voice band land lines)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Li-Fi

I came over this video 
https://www.ted.com/talks/harald_haas_a_breakthrough_new_kind_of_wireless_in
ternet#t-432451

Anyone who have studied this tech?

Cheers,
Amund
David Heald  

-

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-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Mike Cantwell 

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David Heald: