Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

I agree with both Ken and John, the external ground wire should never pass 
thorugh the wall, and should be connected to
the outside of the wall. Same for internal ground. From the point of ground 
integrity and single fault protection
a single protruding bolt well bonded (welded or soldered in my rooms copper 
septum)  to the rooms wall is best.

The skin effect will effectively separate all internal and external RF 
currents, as John says,  even if connected to the same bold, I  trust theory 
for that.

I believe it is the only reliable way to preserve the safety of personnel. 
Especially in a R experimental environment
as a test room, where prototypes may/will exhibit weird faults.

Gert


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 14 juni 2016 15:52
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

Agree with all of Gert's message except the one that contradicts mine: the 
internal green wire connection should not be the same as the external, and the 
external connection should not penetrate the chamber wall.  Either of these 
practices will degrade chamber shielding effectiveness, and neither is either 
necessary or desirable.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" 
> <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
> Reply-To: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" 
> <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:34:29 +0200
> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Conversation: Screened room mains filter
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
> Indeed a 2-phase is enough. Ground goes directly to the chambers 
> ground-bolt, close to the filter. I recommend installing an extra 
> (redundant) separate 4mm2 or larger solid ground bonding connector to 
> your buildings main ground, as the leakage current for official 
> room-filters may easily exceed 1 A (> 1000 mA), and the infamous 
> "single fault" won't be lethal then.
> 
> 
> Same goes for the internal (in the screened room) ground, it's best 
> connected to same bolt as the outside ground.
> 
> Most filter have internal discharge resistors, but it cannot be said 
> enough verify that the internal capacitors are discharged before 
> servicing, or mount your own discharge resistor in the circuit.
> 
> 
> I suppose this is well known on this list but:
> Note that any grounding  is irrelevant  for the screening properties.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ing. Gert Gremmen
> Approvals manager
> --
> 
> --
> 
> 
> + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent 
> + Consultancy Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
>  according to EC-directives:
>     - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
>     - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
>     - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
>     - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
> + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education
> 
> Web:    www.cetest.nl (English)
> Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
> ---
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that 
> is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and 
> are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above.
> Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not 
> limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or 
> distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated
> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
> please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete 
> the material from any computer.
> Thank you for your co-operation.
> 
> From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
> Sent: Monday 13 June 2016 15:00
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Dear colleagues
> 
> I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input 
> filter for a screened room.
> However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter 
> or a 3 line.
> I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral 
> lines as the earth should be bonded to the screened room.
> 
> Your advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> Ian McBurney
> Design & Compliance Engineer.
> 
> Allen & Heath Ltd.
> Kernick Industrial Estate,
> Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
> T: 01326 372070
> E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
> 
> 
> Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and 

Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[Heckrotte, Michael]

Another typical construction style is the pan-type room, consisting of a single 
sheet of steel.

Edges are bent at 90 degrees (two 90 degree bends actually, to give rigidity, 
first bend ~5 mm from edge, second bend ~15 mm from first bend), gasketing 
material is placed between the (unpainted) exterior sides of the 15 mm wide 
faces, then these mating faces are clamped together with nuts and bolts. If you 
lay the sheet on the floor with the bends going up, it forms a pan 15 mm tall 
with a 5 mm wide lip.


Best Regards,
Mike

From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

In a typical construction of particle board sandwiched between thin gauge steel 
facers, these are tied together at each edge where the clamping mechanism fit 
and hold the various pieces together. The idea is not a double-isolated room, 
like the old Lindgren double-electrically isolated screen rooms, but rather 
that for a conductor connected to the exterior, it doesn't penetrate the 
chamber wall, but only bonds to it.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


From: "Larry K. Stillings" 
<la...@complianceworldwide.com<mailto:la...@complianceworldwide.com>>
Reply-To: "Larry K. Stillings" 
<la...@complianceworldwide.com<mailto:la...@complianceworldwide.com>>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:47:37 -0400
To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
Conversation: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

All,

Another question I have is when a waveguide is added to a chamber wall, doesn't 
that bond the "outside" surface to the "inside" surface of the chamber, and 
therefore tie these "grounds" metal surfaces together?

I've never installed one.

Do they use a rubber gasket to keep the two metal surfaces inside and outside 
of the chamber isolated when installing a brass waveguide feed-through pipe 
penetration ?

I am just assuming this would defeat the purpose of having a 3 line filter.


Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World!
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product Safety
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
www.complianceworldwide.com<http://www.complianceworldwide.com> 
<http://www.complianceworldwide.com><http://www.complianceworldwide.com>

Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you 
are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of 
the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to 
anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the 
sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not 
consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and 
other information in this message that do not relate to the official business 
of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.


From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 9:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

Dear colleagues

I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter for a 
screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3 
line.
I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as 
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.

Your advice will be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

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<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html><http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.htm

Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[Ken Javor]

In a typical construction of particle board sandwiched between thin gauge
steel facers, these are tied together at each edge where the clamping
mechanism fit and hold the various pieces together. The idea is not a
double-isolated room, like the old Lindgren double-electrically isolated
screen rooms, but rather that for a conductor connected to the exterior, it
doesn¹t penetrate the chamber wall, but only bonds to it.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: "Larry K. Stillings" <la...@complianceworldwide.com>
Reply-To: "Larry K. Stillings" <la...@complianceworldwide.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:47:37 -0400
To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Conversation: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

All,
 
Another question I have is when a waveguide is added to a chamber wall,
doesn¹t that bond the ³outside² surface to the ³inside² surface of the
chamber, and therefore tie these ³grounds² metal surfaces together?
 
I¹ve never installed one.
 
Do they use a rubber gasket to keep the two metal surfaces inside and
outside of the chamber isolated when installing a brass waveguide
feed-through pipe penetration ?
 
I am just assuming this would defeat the purpose of having a 3 line filter.
 

Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World!
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product
Safety 
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
www.complianceworldwide.com <http://www.complianceworldwide.com>

Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you
are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery
of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to
anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the
sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do
not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions,
conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the
official business of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor
endorsed by it.
 

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 9:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
 
Dear colleagues
 
I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter
for a screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3
line.
I¹m assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.
 
Your advice will be appreciated.
 
Many thanks in advance.
 
Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.
 
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
 
 
Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company.
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
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<emc-p...@ieee.org>

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Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[Ken Javor]

Not sure I understand the concern. The dc/50/60/400 Hz impedance is
sub-milliohm, and likewise for power line harmonic leakage currents.  Ditto
if a fault occurs. 

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>
> Reply-To: John Woodgate <jmw1...@btinternet.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:39:55 +0100
> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Where do you connect the ground wire of the internal screen?
> 
> If the two screens are not connected closely together, voltages exist
> between them. The reason the external connection should not penetrate the
> wall is so that VHF (and above) signals are confined to the outer surface by
> skin effect.
> 
> I still think that putting a filter in the PEC is worthwhile, because it is
> likely to minimise any RF voltages at the ground point, which has inductance
> to the building ground even with a bonding wire, however thick.
> 
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 2:52 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Agree with all of Gert's message except the one that contradicts mine: the
> internal green wire connection should not be the same as the external, and
> the external connection should not penetrate the chamber wall.  Either of
> these practices will degrade chamber shielding effectiveness, and neither is
> either necessary or desirable.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
>> From: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen"
>> <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
>> Reply-To: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen"
>> <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
>> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:34:29 +0200
>> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
>> Conversation: Screened room mains filter
>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
>> 
>> Hi Ian,
>> 
>> Indeed a 2-phase is enough. Ground goes directly to the chambers
>> ground-bolt, close to the filter. I recommend installing an extra
>> (redundant) separate 4mm2 or larger solid ground bonding connector to
>> your buildings main ground, as the leakage current for official
>> room-filters may easily exceed 1 A (> 1000 mA), and the infamous
>> "single fault" won't be lethal then.
>> 
>> 
>> Same goes for the internal (in the screened room) ground, it's best
>> connected to same bolt as the outside ground.
>> 
>> Most filter have internal discharge resistors, but it cannot be said
>> enough verify that the internal capacitors are discharged before
>> servicing, or mount your own discharge resistor in the circuit.
>> 
>> 
>> I suppose this is well known on this list but:
>> Note that any grounding  is irrelevant  for the screening properties.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Ing. Gert Gremmen
>> Approvals manager
>> --
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent
>> + Consultancy Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
>>  according to EC-directives:
>>     - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
>>     - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
>>     - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
>>     - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
>> + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education
>> 
>> Web:    www.cetest.nl (English)
>> Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
>> ---
>> This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that
>> is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and
>> are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above.
>> Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not
>> limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or
>> distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated
>> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>> please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete
>> the material from any computer.
>> Thank you for your co-operation.
>> 
>> From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
>> Sent: Monday 13 June 2016 15:00
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: [P

Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[Larry K. Stillings]

All,

 

Another question I have is when a waveguide is added to a chamber wall,
doesn't that bond the "outside" surface to the "inside" surface of the
chamber, and therefore tie these "grounds" metal surfaces together?

 

I've never installed one. 

 

Do they use a rubber gasket to keep the two metal surfaces inside and
outside of the chamber isolated when installing a brass waveguide
feed-through pipe penetration ?

 

I am just assuming this would defeat the purpose of having a 3 line
filter.

 

Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc. 
Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World! 
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals -
Product Safety 
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
www.complianceworldwide.com <http://www.complianceworldwide.com> 

Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If
you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for
delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver
this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message
and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately
if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of
this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message
that do not relate to the official business of my firm shall be
understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.

 

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 9:00 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

 

Dear colleagues

 

I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input
filter for a screened room.

However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or
a 3 line.

I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral
lines as the earth should be bonded to the screened room.

 

Your advice will be appreciated.

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Ian McBurney

Design & Compliance Engineer.

 

Allen & Heath Ltd.

Kernick Industrial Estate,

Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK

T: 01326 372070

E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

 

 

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company. 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> 
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-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>

Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[John Woodgate]

Where do you connect the ground wire of the internal screen?

If the two screens are not connected closely together, voltages exist
between them. The reason the external connection should not penetrate the
wall is so that VHF (and above) signals are confined to the outer surface by
skin effect.

I still think that putting a filter in the PEC is worthwhile, because it is
likely to minimise any RF voltages at the ground point, which has inductance
to the building ground even with a bonding wire, however thick.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England


-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 2:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

Agree with all of Gert's message except the one that contradicts mine: the
internal green wire connection should not be the same as the external, and
the external connection should not penetrate the chamber wall.  Either of
these practices will degrade chamber shielding effectiveness, and neither is
either necessary or desirable.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" 
> <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
> Reply-To: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" 
> <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:34:29 +0200
> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Conversation: Screened room mains filter
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
> Indeed a 2-phase is enough. Ground goes directly to the chambers 
> ground-bolt, close to the filter. I recommend installing an extra 
> (redundant) separate 4mm2 or larger solid ground bonding connector to 
> your buildings main ground, as the leakage current for official 
> room-filters may easily exceed 1 A (> 1000 mA), and the infamous 
> "single fault" won't be lethal then.
> 
> 
> Same goes for the internal (in the screened room) ground, it's best 
> connected to same bolt as the outside ground.
> 
> Most filter have internal discharge resistors, but it cannot be said 
> enough verify that the internal capacitors are discharged before 
> servicing, or mount your own discharge resistor in the circuit.
> 
> 
> I suppose this is well known on this list but:
> Note that any grounding  is irrelevant  for the screening properties.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ing. Gert Gremmen
> Approvals manager
> --
> 
> --
> 
> 
> + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent 
> + Consultancy Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
>  according to EC-directives:
>     - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
>     - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
>     - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
>     - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
> + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education
> 
> Web:    www.cetest.nl (English)
> Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
> ---
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that 
> is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and 
> are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above.
> Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not 
> limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or 
> distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated
> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
> please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete 
> the material from any computer.
> Thank you for your co-operation.
> 
> From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
> Sent: Monday 13 June 2016 15:00
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Dear colleagues
> 
> I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input 
> filter for a screened room.
> However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter 
> or a 3 line.
> I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral 
> lines as the earth should be bonded to the screened room.
> 
> Your advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> Ian McBurney
> Design & Compliance Engineer.
> 
> Allen & Heath Ltd.
> Kernick Industrial Estate,
> Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
> T: 01326 372070
> E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
> 
> 
> Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, 
> Company
> number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email ar

Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[Ken Javor]

Agree with all of Gert's message except the one that contradicts mine: the
internal green wire connection should not be the same as the external, and
the external connection should not penetrate the chamber wall.  Either of
these practices will degrade chamber shielding effectiveness, and neither is
either necessary or desirable.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
> Reply-To: "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" <g.grem...@cetest.nl>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:34:29 +0200
> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Conversation: Screened room mains filter
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
> Indeed a 2-phase is enough. Ground goes directly to the
> chambers ground-bolt, close to the filter. I recommend installing
> an extra (redundant) separate 4mm2 or larger solid ground bonding
> connector to your buildings main ground, as the leakage current for official
> room-filters may easily exceed 1 A (> 1000 mA), and the infamous "single
> fault" won't be lethal then.
> 
> 
> Same goes for the internal (in the screened room) ground, it's best connected
> to same bolt
> as the outside ground.
> 
> Most filter have internal discharge resistors, but it cannot be said enough
> verify that the internal capacitors are discharged before servicing, or
> mount your own discharge resistor in the circuit.
> 
> 
> I suppose this is well known on this list but:
> Note that any grounding  is irrelevant  for the screening properties.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ing. Gert Gremmen
> Approvals manager
> --
> --
> 
> 
> + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
> + Independent Consultancy Services
> + Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
>  according to EC-directives:
>     - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
>     - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
>     - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
>     - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
> + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing
> + Education
> 
> Web:    www.cetest.nl (English)
> Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
> ---
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information
> that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights
> and are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above.
> Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not
> limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or
> distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated
> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and
> delete the material from any computer.
> Thank you for your co-operation.
> 
> From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
> Sent: Monday 13 June 2016 15:00
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
> 
> Dear colleagues
> 
> I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter for
> a screened room.
> However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3
> line.
> I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as
> the earth should be bonded to the screened room.
> 
> Your advice will be appreciated.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> Ian McBurney
> Design & Compliance Engineer.
> 
> Allen & Heath Ltd.
> Kernick Industrial Estate,
> Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
> T: 01326 372070
> E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
> 
> 
> Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
> number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual
> and not necessarily those of the company.
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> <emc-p...@ieee.org>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> For help, send

Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

Hi Ian,

Indeed a 2-phase is enough. Ground goes directly to the
chambers ground-bolt, close to the filter. I recommend installing
an extra (redundant) separate 4mm2 or larger solid ground bonding
connector to your buildings main ground, as the leakage current for official 
room-filters may easily exceed 1 A (> 1000 mA), and the infamous "single fault" 
won't be lethal then.


Same goes for the internal (in the screened room) ground, it's best connected 
to same bolt
as the outside ground.

Most filter have internal discharge resistors, but it cannot be said enough
verify that the internal capacitors are discharged before servicing, or
mount your own discharge resistor in the circuit.


I suppose this is well known on this list but:
Note that any grounding  is irrelevant  for the screening properties.

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
+ Independent Consultancy Services
+ Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
    - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
    - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
    - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
    - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing
+ Education

Web:    www.cetest.nl (English) 
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
---
This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information 
that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights 
and are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above. 
Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not 
limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or 
distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated 
recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and 
delete the material from any computer. 
Thank you for your co-operation.

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: Monday 13 June 2016 15:00
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

Dear colleagues

I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter for a 
screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3 
line.
I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as 
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.

Your advice will be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. 
-

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Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[John Woodgate]

I wouldn't assume that. There is really no such thing as 'earth'.  Any
voltage induced on the protective conductor passes to the screening, which
has capacitances to other objects, including the planet. So currents can
flow through those capacitances, causing voltages to appear between
different parts of the screening.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
 <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and
Associates Rayleigh England
 
From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 2:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter
 
Dear colleagues
 
I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter
for a screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3
line.
I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.
 
Your advice will be appreciated.
 
Many thanks in advance.
 
Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.
 
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com <mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com> 
 
 
Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company. 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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<emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
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-

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Re: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

[Ken Javor]

Your assumption is correct. Also the green wire safety ground attaches to
the outside; its attachment method should not penetrate the chamber wall.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: "McBurney, Ian" <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>
Reply-To: "McBurney, Ian" <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 13:00:20 +
To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Conversation: Screened room mains filter
Subject: [PSES] Screened room mains filter

Dear colleagues
 
I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter
for a screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3
line.
I¹m assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.
 
Your advice will be appreciated.
 
Many thanks in advance.
 
Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.
 
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
 
 
Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company. -


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[PSES] Screened room mains filter

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues

I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter for a 
screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3 
line.
I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as 
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.

Your advice will be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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