Re: [PSES] ANSI 63.10 2020 Clause 7.6.3 Pulsed Emissions

2024-01-23 Thread Larry K. Stillings 
Hi John,

Ok thanks. I’m mixing power (Watts) vs. voltage and/or current.

If I was dealing in units of Watts, then that is where the 10 * log would come 
into play because I’ve already “squared”

Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World!
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product Safety
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
complianceworldwide.com<https://complianceworldwide.com>
<https://complianceworldwide.com>

Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you 
are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of 
the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to 
anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the 
sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not 
consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and 
other information in this message that do not relate to the official business 
of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.

From: John Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 11:29 AM
To: Larry K. Stillings ; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] ANSI 63.10 2020 Clause 7.6.3 Pulsed Emissions


Microvolts/m requires 20*log( ), like anything based on voltage or current. 
Your example of a transmitter is based on power.
On 2024-01-23 16:24, Larry K. Stillings wrote:
Hello All,

Maybe this is not the correct forum and I should put in an inquiry into the 
ANSI C63.10 committee directly, however before I did that I wanted to get some 
help here.

In the 2020 edition of the ANSI 63.10 standard they have added a calculation 
example page for pulsed emissions in Clause 7.6.3.

In a nutshell the example shows a duty cycle of ~36% (25 mS on time / 70 mS off 
time). The readings are taken in dBuV/m peak values and then a duty cycle 
correction of 20 * log (on time / total time) is applied or -8.9 dB to 
determine the average value of the emission.

Here is where it falls apart for me. If you are taking measurements in dBuV/m 
wouldn’t the duty cycle correction factor be determined with 10 * log (on time 
/ total time). Let’s take an example of a transmitter being on 10 % of the 
time, isn’t that a 10 dB reduction? If the device is on 1% of the time isn’t 
that a 20 dB reduction?

Or for some reason because it is a pulsed emission you are allowed to use 20 * 
log and have a 20 dB reduction for a 10% duty cycle or less because anything 
greater than 20 dB is the maximum allowable correction / reduction for a pulsed 
emission?



Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World!
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product Safety
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
complianceworldwide.com<https://complianceworldwide.com>
<https://complianceworldwide.com>

Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you 
are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of 
the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to 
anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the 
sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not 
consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and 
other information in this message that do not relate to the official business 
of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc 
postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20>

Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/
Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html>
List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net>
Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>



To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: 
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1

--

OOO - Own Opinions Only

John M Woodgate, Rayleigh, Essex UK

Keep trying

-

This message is from the IEEE Product S

Re: [PSES] ANSI 63.10 2020 Clause 7.6.3 Pulsed Emissions

2024-01-23 Thread John Woodgate 
Microvolts/m requires 20*log( ), like anything based on voltage or 
current. Your example of a transmitter is based on power.


On 2024-01-23 16:24, Larry K. Stillings wrote:


Hello All,

Maybe this is not the correct forum and I should put in an inquiry 
into the ANSI C63.10 committee directly, however before I did that I 
wanted to get some help here.


In the 2020 edition of the ANSI 63.10 standard they have added a 
calculation example page for pulsed emissions in Clause 7.6.3.


In a nutshell the example shows a duty cycle of ~36% (25 mS on time / 
70 mS off time). The readings are taken in dBuV/m peak values and then 
a duty cycle correction of 20 * log (on time / total time) is applied 
or -8.9 dB to determine the average value of the emission.


Here is where it falls apart for me. If you are taking measurements in 
dBuV/m wouldn’t the duty cycle correction factor be determined with 10 
* log (on time / total time). Let’s take an example of a transmitter 
being on 10 % of the time, isn’t that a 10 dB reduction? If the device 
is on 1% of the time isn’t that a 20 dB reduction?


Or for some reason because it is a pulsed emission you are allowed to 
use 20 * log and have a 20 dB reduction for a 10% duty cycle or less 
because anything greater than 20 dB is the maximum allowable 
correction / reduction for a pulsed emission?


Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
*/Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the 
World!/*
*/FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - 
Product Safety/*

357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
complianceworldwide.com 


Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. 
If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible 
for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or 
deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this 
message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise 
immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email 
for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information 
in this message that do not relate to the official business of my firm 
shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.




This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are 
archived and searchable on the web at:

https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/

Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/
Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how 
to unsubscribe) 

List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org



To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: 
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1



--
OOO - Own Opinions Only
John M Woodgate, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Keep trying

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/

Website:  https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/
Instructions:  https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
_
To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: 
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1