Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-06 Thread John Woodgate 
Native English speakers are involved, also costly language consultants. 
There is no excuse for bad wording but it's tolerated too much.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-06 08:30, Michael Derby wrote:

Typically the Directives are written by people who don’t have English as their 
first language; and therefore their English is better than mine.

I tend to write with good and/or bad English at any time, without warning 
and/or prejudice.


Michael.



-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: 05 April 2018 02:02
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

'x and/or y' is and should be logically and grammatically represented as 'x, or 
y, or both' (note the comma is not used to separate dependent and independent 
clauses, but is a coordinating conjunctive between two independent clauses). 
The common interpretation of a logical exclusive-or conjunctive is not correct, 
as it would be 'x or y, but not both'.

The stuff here is written poorly, but seems to be correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And/or

Would be much simpler if we all spoke Klingon and the IEEE adopted the rituals 
of Kahless in their ethical code.

Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 5:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive



“and/or”

Logically, a situation cannot be both “and” and “or.”  Nor can it be “and” or 
“or.”

The use of “and/or” means the authors could not decide which alternatives are 
required.  Poor use of the English language.

Rich
  


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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-06 Thread Michael Derby 
Typically the Directives are written by people who don’t have English as their 
first language; and therefore their English is better than mine.

I tend to write with good and/or bad English at any time, without warning 
and/or prejudice.


Michael.



-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: 05 April 2018 02:02
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

'x and/or y' is and should be logically and grammatically represented as 'x, or 
y, or both' (note the comma is not used to separate dependent and independent 
clauses, but is a coordinating conjunctive between two independent clauses). 
The common interpretation of a logical exclusive-or conjunctive is not correct, 
as it would be 'x or y, but not both'.

The stuff here is written poorly, but seems to be correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And/or

Would be much simpler if we all spoke Klingon and the IEEE adopted the rituals 
of Kahless in their ethical code.

Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 5:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive



“and/or”

Logically, a situation cannot be both “and” and “or.”  Nor can it be “and” or 
“or.”  

The use of “and/or” means the authors could not decide which alternatives are 
required.  Poor use of the English language.  

Rich
 

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-04 Thread Brian O'Connell 
'x and/or y' is and should be logically and grammatically represented as 'x, or 
y, or both' (note the comma is not used to separate dependent and independent 
clauses, but is a coordinating conjunctive between two independent clauses). 
The common interpretation of a logical exclusive-or conjunctive is not correct, 
as it would be 'x or y, but not both'.

The stuff here is written poorly, but seems to be correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And/or

Would be much simpler if we all spoke Klingon and the IEEE adopted the rituals 
of Kahless in their ethical code.

Brian

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 5:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive



“and/or”

Logically, a situation cannot be both “and” and “or.”  Nor can it be “and” or 
“or.”  

The use of “and/or” means the authors could not decide which alternatives are 
required.  Poor use of the English language.  

Rich
 

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-04 Thread Richard Nute 
 

 

“and/or”

 

Logically, a situation cannot be both “and” and “or.”  Nor can it be “and” or 
“or.”  

 

The use of “and/or” means the authors could not decide which alternatives are 
required.  Poor use of the English language.  

 

Rich

  

 

 


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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-04 Thread John Woodgate 
It's another example of the crazy aversion to say what they really mean. 
What are we to make of 'and/or transmit'?  Does a 'receiver' transmit?  
I think not. Do they mean some sort of relay or re-broadcaster?  The 
language of a Directive may be constrained by legal considerations, but 
a Guide should be in the plainest language possible, not be cryptic.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-04 21:05, Michael Derby wrote:


Hello Matthew,

Yes, I think you’re right that they mean broadcast ‘receivers’ which 
connect to cable, and not to an antenna.


Only those ‘receivers’ which are fitted with an antenna (for 
‘radiated’ reception) would be within the RED.


Thanks,

Michael.

*From:*Matthew Wilson [mailto:matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com]
*Sent:* 04 April 2018 17:27
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, 
which is talking about what type of product is covered by which 
directive, EMCD or RED.


“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive 
and/or transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do 
not move under the scope of the RED.”


A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What 
am I missing? Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio 
functions exclusively connected by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?


Matthew Wilson,

Technical Director,

GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

*From:*Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]
*Sent:* 02 April 2018 19:11
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Subject:* [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

Colleagues,

In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the 
EMC Directive. Get yours for free:


https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org <mailto:d...@ieee.org>
+1 (519) 729-5704

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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-04 Thread Michael Derby 
Hello Matthew,

 

Yes, I think you’re right that they mean broadcast ‘receivers’ which connect to 
cable, and not to an antenna.

 

Only those ‘receivers’ which are fitted with an antenna (for ‘radiated’ 
reception) would be within the RED.

 

Thanks,

 

Michael.

 

 

From: Matthew Wilson [mailto:matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com] 
Sent: 04 April 2018 17:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

 

Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, which is 
talking about what type of product is covered by which directive, EMCD or RED.

 

“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive and/or 
transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do not move under 
the scope of the RED.”  

 

A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What am I 
missing?   Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio functions 
exclusively connected by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?

 

 

Matthew Wilson,

Technical Director,

GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

 

From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 02 April 2018 19:11
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

 

Colleagues,

 

In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC 
Directive. Get yours for free:

 

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323

 

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org <mailto:d...@ieee.org> 
+1 (519) 729-5704

 

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  _  


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 <https://gbelectronics.uk> 
https://gbelectronics.uk


T: +44 (0)1903 244500
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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-04 Thread MIKE 
Cable box?Mike Sherman Graco Inc. Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App-- Original Message --From: Matthew WilsonTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGSent: April 4, 2018 at 12:33 PMSubject: Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive




Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, which is talking about what type of product is covered by which directive, EMCD or RED.
 
“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive and/or transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do not move under the scope
 of the RED.”  
 
A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What am I missing?   Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio functions exclusively connected
 by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?
 

 
Matthew Wilson,
Technical Director,
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

 


From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]

Sent: 02 April 2018 19:11
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive


 
Colleagues,

 


In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC Directive. Get yours for free:


 


https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323


 



Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704



 

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Matthew Wilson 
Technical Director



https://gbelectronics.uk




T: +44 (0)1903 244500
F: +44 (0)1903 700715


Ascot House // Mulberry Close // Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea // West Sussex // BN12 4QY // UK









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Want to send us a file? 
https://www.mailbigfile.com/gbelectronics









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Company Registration No: 06210991
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Ascot House, Mulberry Close, Woods Way
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 in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately.
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F

Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-04 Thread Matthew Wilson 
Thanks for the link.  I’m puzzled by this on page 61 of the guide, which is 
talking about what type of product is covered by which directive, EMCD or RED.

“Consequently broadcast receivers that do not intentionally receive and/or 
transmit radio waves stay under the scope of the EMC-D and do not move under 
the scope of the RED.”

A broadcast receiver that doesn’t intentionally receive?!  Huh?  What am I 
missing?   Maybe they mean a set-top box without any radio functions 
exclusively connected by a network cable (e.g. Ethernet)?


Matthew Wilson,
Technical Director,
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

From: Doug Nix [mailto:d...@ieee.org]
Sent: 02 April 2018 19:11
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

Colleagues,

In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC 
Directive. Get yours for free:

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704

-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Re: [PSES] New Guide to the EMC Directive

2018-04-02 Thread Steve Leitner 
Hi Edgard,

We had an Easter Egg hunt for granddaughters and niece, and celebrated my Mom’s 
93rd b-day.  Had a good time.   

How about your family - did you go to Fairfield?

Any update on Oliver?  Is he still in the hospital?

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 2, 2018, at 11:11 AM, Doug Nix  wrote:
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> In case you missed it, the EU has finally issued a new Guide to the EMC 
> Directive. Get yours for free:
> 
> https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/28323
> 
> Doug Nix
> d...@ieee.org
> +1 (519) 729-5704
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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