Re: [Emc-users] Detective work

[Chris Albertson]

The sequence of instructions really is different each time you boot.
Certainly interrupts and task switching happens in different places.The
classic "goof" programmers make in writing systems that have multiple tasks
going on at the same time is the "race".Program "A" saves the value of
"X" and program "B" reads the value of "X" and this works 99.999 % of the
time but fails randomly 0.0001% of the time.  Same code.  The programmer
forgets that "X" is more then one byte and take a couple machine cycles to
write and as lick would have it program A is interrupted when X is 1/2
written so program B sees gibberish. Then A continues and writes the other
half of X.  So the cost is the same but where each task gets
interrupted is different and  with cooperating real tie tasks, you have to
put up critical sections around accesses to shared shared data.  there are
other things like this too.Mistakes like this typically look like flaky
hardware

I'm not surprised this kind of stuff happens on a system that was ported
from Intel to Arm.  Different things are atomic on the two CPUs and as I
said, slow computers show this kind of problem more then faster ones

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 10 May 2017 21:31:14 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > Are you running a real time OS on the Pi 3?Sorry to ask I just
> > can't keep details of your project in my head.   What you are
> > describing sound like you might be.Seems lie whatever software
> > runs in Kernal mode is being a "hog" and running for more than a
> > microsecond with interrupts disabled, suffering like that really
> > messes with software other than the hog.
> >
> > I used to like to use slow computers to test my software because this
> > problems showed up.  Tossing a gross over kill of raw cpu power many
> > times fixes where one driver or real time task is not being nice to
> > others.
> >
> > I saw simmons like your MANY times going back to my days as a device
> > driver writer on CDC mainframe computers.   I wrote driver for a
> > printer multiplexer (the allowed an old line printer to connect to up
> > to four different mainframes and it works real well but almost NOTHING
> > else works on the our big machines.  My driver was using $24M worth of
> > hardware to spin and wait on a bit. THAT is the type of thing I
> > bet is going on. Some privileged task is hogging the CPU.
> >
> Not according to htop Chris. This is a quad core, 64 bit per core armhf
> processor supposedly running at a minimum speed of 800MHz, claims 1.2
> GHz top.  And the effect is apparently random per boot, I'll reboot
> after doing something, the keyboard is unusable, I give up and reboot it
> again, and its working 100%.  It may, or may not, go to pot with
> extended uptime.  Its on now, and amanda will back it up about 1:30 in
> the morning, and tomorrow morning it may act as if the keyboard stuff is
> out in the swap file.  Thats laggy, but nothing like when it decides to
> start ignoring keyup's.  ATM its loaded under 2.0, and the screensaver
> metaballs is by far the biggest load.  htop says swap is empty, but I've
> never had any experience using a swap file till now. So I wonder if htop
> is lying to me about it.
>
> I've had the usb monitor thing running several times, and that got me to
> throw away a usb extension cord that was picking up megabits of raw
> noise so I plugged the rx buttons directly into the pi, and without too
> much between the keyboard and the button but 25 feet of air, and it
> never misses a keystroke.  Of course since the sd card is on the usb
> stuff, I also see the "disk" traffic, but its not "busy".  Next reboot,
> the usbtrace looks the same but no response to keyup events about 90% of
> the time.  The events are getting thru the rx buttons, but the pi is
> ignoring them.
>
> I would think, since the boot is the same sequence of events every time,
> that the results would be pretty consistent, but they are not.  Random
> as all get out.
>
> Were you getting an up-board? Or was that Erik?
>
> > This does not happen in a normal non-real time OS unless you have a
> > buggy device driver (as these run in Kernel mode.
> >
> > The "correct' way to implement real time is to ONLY do the minimum you
> > need to in the privileged mode and if more work or some calculation
> > needs to be done.   You put an entry on a work queue and a user mode
> > task reads the queue,
> >
> This is the only realtime kernel thats been built for the armhf that I
> know of. uname says:
> Linux raspberrypi 4.4.4-rt9-v7+ #7 SMP PREEMPT RT Mon Mar 7 14:53:11 UTC
> 2016 armv7l GNU/Linux
>
> I have a boatload of stuff in the jog dial setup, but all of that stuff
> is running in its own thread at 100Hz.
>
> It certainly a puzzle, and if there are tools to take a closer look at
> something like this, I'm unaware of them. If you know of any, plz
> enlighten me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> > In short problem is 

Re: [Emc-users] Detective work

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 10 May 2017 21:31:14 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Are you running a real time OS on the Pi 3?Sorry to ask I just
> can't keep details of your project in my head.   What you are
> describing sound like you might be.Seems lie whatever software
> runs in Kernal mode is being a "hog" and running for more than a
> microsecond with interrupts disabled, suffering like that really
> messes with software other than the hog.
>
> I used to like to use slow computers to test my software because this
> problems showed up.  Tossing a gross over kill of raw cpu power many
> times fixes where one driver or real time task is not being nice to
> others.
>
> I saw simmons like your MANY times going back to my days as a device
> driver writer on CDC mainframe computers.   I wrote driver for a
> printer multiplexer (the allowed an old line printer to connect to up
> to four different mainframes and it works real well but almost NOTHING
> else works on the our big machines.  My driver was using $24M worth of
> hardware to spin and wait on a bit. THAT is the type of thing I
> bet is going on. Some privileged task is hogging the CPU.
>
Not according to htop Chris. This is a quad core, 64 bit per core armhf 
processor supposedly running at a minimum speed of 800MHz, claims 1.2 
GHz top.  And the effect is apparently random per boot, I'll reboot 
after doing something, the keyboard is unusable, I give up and reboot it 
again, and its working 100%.  It may, or may not, go to pot with 
extended uptime.  Its on now, and amanda will back it up about 1:30 in 
the morning, and tomorrow morning it may act as if the keyboard stuff is 
out in the swap file.  Thats laggy, but nothing like when it decides to 
start ignoring keyup's.  ATM its loaded under 2.0, and the screensaver 
metaballs is by far the biggest load.  htop says swap is empty, but I've 
never had any experience using a swap file till now. So I wonder if htop 
is lying to me about it.

I've had the usb monitor thing running several times, and that got me to 
throw away a usb extension cord that was picking up megabits of raw 
noise so I plugged the rx buttons directly into the pi, and without too 
much between the keyboard and the button but 25 feet of air, and it 
never misses a keystroke.  Of course since the sd card is on the usb 
stuff, I also see the "disk" traffic, but its not "busy".  Next reboot, 
the usbtrace looks the same but no response to keyup events about 90% of 
the time.  The events are getting thru the rx buttons, but the pi is 
ignoring them.

I would think, since the boot is the same sequence of events every time, 
that the results would be pretty consistent, but they are not.  Random 
as all get out.

Were you getting an up-board? Or was that Erik?

> This does not happen in a normal non-real time OS unless you have a
> buggy device driver (as these run in Kernel mode.
>
> The "correct' way to implement real time is to ONLY do the minimum you
> need to in the privileged mode and if more work or some calculation
> needs to be done.   You put an entry on a work queue and a user mode
> task reads the queue,
>
This is the only realtime kernel thats been built for the armhf that I 
know of. uname says:
Linux raspberrypi 4.4.4-rt9-v7+ #7 SMP PREEMPT RT Mon Mar 7 14:53:11 UTC 
2016 armv7l GNU/Linux

I have a boatload of stuff in the jog dial setup, but all of that stuff 
is running in its own thread at 100Hz.

It certainly a puzzle, and if there are tools to take a closer look at 
something like this, I'm unaware of them. If you know of any, plz 
enlighten me.

Thanks.

> In short problem is simtomatic of the bugs that are common in real
> time systems.  Especially RT system with a significant computational
> load on them.  Hangs, missed interrupts and so on.  Debufgging is
> hard, you end up doing stuff like writing debug messages by toggling a
> GPIO pin and watching for the toggle with a logic analyzer.
>
> My method now days is to never even try.  I run the real-time stuff on
> a micro controller running an RTOS and the higher level stuff on a Pi3
> or PC running Linux.
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Detective stuffs, electronically, have always been my specialty. 
> > But I have one now that is a bit of a puzzle even for me.
> >
> > First, I mesaflash verified all 3 of my 7i90's.
> >
> > Then I hung them on the pi, and all of them returned the error I
> > have posted quite a few times already.
> >
> > So I ordered that up-board.  In the meantime I am less than ecstatic
> > about that 1366x768 monitor, so I hit wallies and found a 1920x1080
> > AOC that the sales type said had an hdmi input. $88, so it followed
> > me home.
> >
> > On unpacking I noted two things, first being that its power supply
> > was a wall wart that plugged into the usual round socket on the
> > bottom of the interface ridge on the back.  2nd was that DVI was the
> > best input it had, 

Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Todd Zuercher]

- Original Message -
> From: "Jon Elson" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 10:17:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer
> 
> On 05/10/2017 04:58 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> >
> > That is what I am afraid of.  But I had not seen any definitive
> > "Yes we've killed it" answer on the subject.  A quick google seems
> > to imply that Debian still supports ISA, but...
> >
> >
> Does that machine have hyperthreading?  If so, turn it off,
> it cuts the speed of real CPU to half.
> You could also run the latency test.  That might reveal a
> problem with RTAI.  Or, are you using preempt-RT?
> If either of these, try the other RT system, and see if it
> does better.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think the OS would care about the ISA.
> LinuxCNC doesn't use Linux drivers, the hal drivers go
> straight to the hardware.
> 
> Jon
> 

If it has hyper-threading it has been turned off for the last 5 or 6 years, 
when Linuxcnc(emc2) was originally installed on it.

Latency is fine with Lucid(RTAI).  With Wheezy(RTAI) the latency test will not 
even open, it just hangs with nothing coming up in the terminal window, but the 
pc itself still keeps going (can open other programs).

Are there any particular logs I should be looking at for pertinent error info?

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Re: [Emc-users] crashing under 2.8.0-pre1

[Ralph Stirling]

Thanks, Sebastian.  That configure option did it.  I didn't
realize it was defaulting to uspace.

Now I can debug the kins.  Rtapi_print is giving me some
strange formatting.

-- Ralph

From: Sebastian Kuzminsky [s...@highlab.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 12:54 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] crashing under 2.8.0-pre1

On 05/10/2017 12:16 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:
> I have compiled 2.8.0-pre1 from source for a non-trivkins
> project.  I am using a Mesa 7I43 board.  When I run linuxcnc
> with software stepgens (no hostmot2), all is well.  If I create
> a plain-vanilla Mesa-based stepper configuration with pncconf,
> the computer crashes during startup of linuxcnc and requires
> power cycling.
>
> Kernel: 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
> Distro: Debian 7.11 (wheezy)
>
> If I do a "test axis" during pncconf, I get this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/pages.py", line 1129, 
> in
> on_zaxistune_clicked
> def on_zaxistune_clicked(self, *args): self.t.tune_axis('z')
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/tests.py", line 463, 
> in t
> une_axis
> if not self.a.check_for_rt():
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/bin/pncconf", line 1640, in check_for_rt
> elif hal.is_rt and not hal.kernel_version == actual_kernel:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'kernel_version'
>
> When I actually run linuxcnc from the configuration made by pncconf,
> I get a kernel panic:
>
> BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0508
> IP: [] handle_lxrt_request+0x58/0xaf0 [rtai_sched]
> *pde = 
> Oops:  [#1] PREEMPT SMP
>
> followed by more stack trace stuff.

Looks like you built linuxcnc from source and configured
--with-realtime=uspace instead of
--with-realtime=/usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae.

I'm able to reproduce the "no attribute 'kernel_version'" by configuring
for uspace, but I don't have a 7i43 hooked up at the moment and without
it I'm not able to reproduce the crash.


> Linux 2.7.8 with hostmot2 runs fine, as does 2.8.0-pre1 with software stepgen.
> Is this a problem of my making (and hence my solving), or is it a bug?  I'm
> wondering why I see mention of PREEMPT in the kernel panic when I am
> running an RTAI kernel.  Do I need to compile 2.8.0-pre1 differently?

Our 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae RTAI kernel has the normal Linux PREEMPT feature
enabled (this is different than the RT-PREEMPT feature, and not as
realtimey), in addition to the RTAI feature.


--
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Jon Elson]

On 05/10/2017 04:58 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
>
> That is what I am afraid of.  But I had not seen any definitive "Yes we've 
> killed it" answer on the subject.  A quick google seems to imply that Debian 
> still supports ISA, but...
>
>
Does that machine have hyperthreading?  If so, turn it off, 
it cuts the speed of real CPU to half.
You could also run the latency test.  That might reveal a 
problem with RTAI.  Or, are you using preempt-RT?
If either of these, try the other RT system, and see if it 
does better.

Anyway, I don't think the OS would care about the ISA.  
LinuxCNC doesn't use Linux drivers, the hal drivers go 
straight to the hardware.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Detective work

[Chris Albertson]

Are you running a real time OS on the Pi 3?Sorry to ask I just can't
keep details of your project in my head.   What you are describing sound
like you might be.Seems lie whatever software runs in Kernal mode is
being a "hog" and running for more than a microsecond with interrupts
disabled, suffering like that really messes with software other than the
hog.

I used to like to use slow computers to test my software because this
problems showed up.  Tossing a gross over kill of raw cpu power many times
fixes where one driver or real time task is not being nice to others.

I saw simmons like your MANY times going back to my days as a device driver
writer on CDC mainframe computers.   I wrote driver for a printer
multiplexer (the allowed an old line printer to connect to up to four
different mainframes and it works real well but almost NOTHING else works
on the our big machines.  My driver was using $24M worth of hardware to
spin and wait on a bit. THAT is the type of thing I bet is going on.
Some privileged task is hogging the CPU.

This does not happen in a normal non-real time OS unless you have a buggy
device driver (as these run in Kernel mode.

The "correct' way to implement real time is to ONLY do the minimum you need
to in the privileged mode and if more work or some calculation needs to be
done.   You put an entry on a work queue and a user mode task reads the
queue,

In short problem is simtomatic of the bugs that are common in real time
systems.  Especially RT system with a significant computational load on
them.  Hangs, missed interrupts and so on.  Debufgging is hard, you end
up doing stuff like writing debug messages by toggling a GPIO pin and
watching for the toggle with a logic analyzer.

My method now days is to never even try.  I run the real-time stuff on a
micro controller running an RTOS and the higher level stuff on a Pi3 or PC
running Linux.

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> Detective stuffs, electronically, have always been my specialty.  But I
> have one now that is a bit of a puzzle even for me.
>
> First, I mesaflash verified all 3 of my 7i90's.
>
> Then I hung them on the pi, and all of them returned the error I have
> posted quite a few times already.
>
> So I ordered that up-board.  In the meantime I am less than ecstatic
> about that 1366x768 monitor, so I hit wallies and found a 1920x1080 AOC
> that the sales type said had an hdmi input. $88, so it followed me home.
>
> On unpacking I noted two things, first being that its power supply was a
> wall wart that plugged into the usual round socket on the bottom of the
> interface ridge on the back.  2nd was that DVI was the best input it
> had, requiring an hdmi to DVI adapter be inserted and screwed down, and
> the hdmi plugged into that.
>
> Mounted it where the other 1366x768 had been hanging, discovering the
> arm's bracket nicely covered the I/O shelf, making it quite difficult to
> get things plugged in and screwed down.
>
> Several hours later I finally got /boot/config.txt configured so it ran
> at its 1920x1080 rated resolution. Looked good. Tried linuxcnc, and
> darned if it didn't run normally once I had taken a pin reference to a
> units pin back out. No biggie, that card didn't have that module on it.
>
> So now I am wondering if the old, bastard 1366x768 rated monitor was
> somehow grabbing a gpio pin and mucking things up by interfering with
> the SPI buss.
>
> Am I on the right track, or barking at the moon?  Discussion please.
>
> In the FWIW category, the 3 adapters I made, using the OSHPark 40 pin to
> 26 pin board with the 3 88 ohm terminator resistors, which because there
> were not any 88 ohm r's at digikey, so mine are 86.7 ohms. None of them
> work at all. They all return:
>
>     when queried for the  boards id.
>
> My home made cable is the only one that works, about 8" of overall
> length.
>
> The very poor keyboard and mouse response continues unabated.  This is
> regardless of the cpu load.  Reboot it. 3 out of 4 times that will fix
> it for a while, 4th time its even worse. Misses key up events, so it
> goes into the autorepeat until another key is tapped.  Hit backspace to
> get rid of the unwanted characters and the backspace goes into
> autorepeat. nano or geany makes no difference.  Changing keyboards has
> no effect.
>
> I don't have the machine moving yet, when I decided to test ALL the
> 7i90's I had, I ripped stuff off the 50 pin sockets w/o drawing a map,
> so now I am tracing down each wire in turn, and plugging it back into
> the 7i90 by looking up that items function in my .hal files. That and
> because many weren't in a connector housing, and I want to rectify that,
> I tried to glue up 2 and a half of the 2x10 styles, but apparently the
> latest and greatest in super glues is not up to butt gluing these
> things, it breaks VERY easily.  Made more difficult because there are
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Chris Albertson]

It's not a big deal if something is not supported by default.   You compile
the driver then "insmod" it in later.  Or just rebuild the kernel. If
it was once supported hardware you can keep it working.

Many times you need to use ISA cards because it is come custom hardware or
one off interface.   I've got a few of those that fortunately I don't need
to use.   But it taught me to NEVER build only thing on a card that goes
inside a PC.  Build instead using a standard interface to a PC, like USB
even better a network connection.

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Todd Zuercher 
wrote:

> - Original Message -
> > From: "Gene Heskett" 
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:38:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer
> >
> > On Wednesday 10 May 2017 12:22:13 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> >
> > > Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single
> > > core
> > > computer?
> > >
> > > I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some
> > > time
> > > on an older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install. It is an older P4 2.8gHz
> > > cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works reasonably well with
> > > Lucid.
> > > This PC is a little bit special in that it has some ISA slots on
> > > the
> > > motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to interface with
> > > the
> > > machine.
> > >
> > > I have tried several times to test or install the newer
> > > Linuxcnc/Wheezy iso. But it boots and runs painfully slow, and
> > > neither
> > > the latency tests or Linuxcnc will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc
> > > from
> > > the command line tells me nothing.
> > >
> > > Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version?
> >
> > My first reaction is that the newer kernels have no ISA support
> > without
> > building your own and configuring that option back on, if it still
> > exists in the latest kernel src linux needs to run well.
> >
> > Realistically, ISA has been dead and had a few words said over it for
> > at
> > least 15 years. PCI is around 10-30x faster as the 7 MHz clocking was
> > replaced with 33 MHz clocking, and offered bus widths up to 64 bits,
> > whereas ISA was stuck with a 16 bit data bus.
> >
> > Even that is considered slow these days. I'd not recommend a
> > raspberry pi
> > 3b at this stage of the update your hardware game, even if mine is
> > running linuxcnc again.  I'll have another post about that, but
> > probably
> > after I go round up some dinner for us, I have a theory I'd like to
> > expound on a wee bit.
> >
> > Film (term used very loosely) at 11.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
>
> That is what I am afraid of.  But I had not seen any definitive "Yes we've
> killed it" answer on the subject.  A quick google seems to imply that
> Debian still supports ISA, but...
>
> It is old legacy hardware, but I was hoping not to have to rip out and
> rewire the machine to support a newer interface card.
>
> As to why not to soldier on with 10.04, I believe it has been decreed by
> the powers that be, if you want to go beyond Linuxcnc 2.7, thou shalt
> forsake Lucid.
>
> 
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[Emc-users] Detective work

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Detective stuffs, electronically, have always been my specialty.  But I 
have one now that is a bit of a puzzle even for me.

First, I mesaflash verified all 3 of my 7i90's.

Then I hung them on the pi, and all of them returned the error I have 
posted quite a few times already.

So I ordered that up-board.  In the meantime I am less than ecstatic 
about that 1366x768 monitor, so I hit wallies and found a 1920x1080 AOC 
that the sales type said had an hdmi input. $88, so it followed me home.

On unpacking I noted two things, first being that its power supply was a 
wall wart that plugged into the usual round socket on the bottom of the 
interface ridge on the back.  2nd was that DVI was the best input it 
had, requiring an hdmi to DVI adapter be inserted and screwed down, and 
the hdmi plugged into that.

Mounted it where the other 1366x768 had been hanging, discovering the 
arm's bracket nicely covered the I/O shelf, making it quite difficult to 
get things plugged in and screwed down.

Several hours later I finally got /boot/config.txt configured so it ran 
at its 1920x1080 rated resolution. Looked good. Tried linuxcnc, and 
darned if it didn't run normally once I had taken a pin reference to a 
units pin back out. No biggie, that card didn't have that module on it.

So now I am wondering if the old, bastard 1366x768 rated monitor was 
somehow grabbing a gpio pin and mucking things up by interfering with 
the SPI buss.

Am I on the right track, or barking at the moon?  Discussion please.

In the FWIW category, the 3 adapters I made, using the OSHPark 40 pin to 
26 pin board with the 3 88 ohm terminator resistors, which because there 
were not any 88 ohm r's at digikey, so mine are 86.7 ohms. None of them 
work at all. They all return:

    when queried for the  boards id.

My home made cable is the only one that works, about 8" of overall 
length.

The very poor keyboard and mouse response continues unabated.  This is 
regardless of the cpu load.  Reboot it. 3 out of 4 times that will fix 
it for a while, 4th time its even worse. Misses key up events, so it 
goes into the autorepeat until another key is tapped.  Hit backspace to 
get rid of the unwanted characters and the backspace goes into 
autorepeat. nano or geany makes no difference.  Changing keyboards has 
no effect.

I don't have the machine moving yet, when I decided to test ALL the 
7i90's I had, I ripped stuff off the 50 pin sockets w/o drawing a map, 
so now I am tracing down each wire in turn, and plugging it back into 
the 7i90 by looking up that items function in my .hal files. That and 
because many weren't in a connector housing, and I want to rectify that, 
I tried to glue up 2 and a half of the 2x10 styles, but apparently the 
latest and greatest in super glues is not up to butt gluing these 
things, it breaks VERY easily.  Made more difficult because there are 
not any Mesa 7i42TA's in the states and I want to get three of them to 
serve as static voltage absorber's to protect the ultra sensitive 7i90 
outputs.  Not to mention that it will make the hookup buckets neater.

And wasted the afternoon getting the 1st of a 3 shot series under my left 
kneecap.  And Dee, who watches the news, says we are supposed to get 
around 2.5" additional rain over the next 2 days.  I wish humans could 
hibernate... Sometimes I try, but I still have recycle the water. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Todd Zuercher]

- Original Message -
> From: "Gene Heskett" 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 5:38:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer
> 
> On Wednesday 10 May 2017 12:22:13 Todd Zuercher wrote:
> 
> > Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single
> > core
> > computer?
> >
> > I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some
> > time
> > on an older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install. It is an older P4 2.8gHz
> > cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works reasonably well with
> > Lucid.
> > This PC is a little bit special in that it has some ISA slots on
> > the
> > motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to interface with
> > the
> > machine.
> >
> > I have tried several times to test or install the newer
> > Linuxcnc/Wheezy iso. But it boots and runs painfully slow, and
> > neither
> > the latency tests or Linuxcnc will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc
> > from
> > the command line tells me nothing.
> >
> > Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version?
> 
> My first reaction is that the newer kernels have no ISA support
> without
> building your own and configuring that option back on, if it still
> exists in the latest kernel src linux needs to run well.
> 
> Realistically, ISA has been dead and had a few words said over it for
> at
> least 15 years. PCI is around 10-30x faster as the 7 MHz clocking was
> replaced with 33 MHz clocking, and offered bus widths up to 64 bits,
> whereas ISA was stuck with a 16 bit data bus.
> 
> Even that is considered slow these days. I'd not recommend a
> raspberry pi
> 3b at this stage of the update your hardware game, even if mine is
> running linuxcnc again.  I'll have another post about that, but
> probably
> after I go round up some dinner for us, I have a theory I'd like to
> expound on a wee bit.
> 
> Film (term used very loosely) at 11.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --

That is what I am afraid of.  But I had not seen any definitive "Yes we've 
killed it" answer on the subject.  A quick google seems to imply that Debian 
still supports ISA, but...

It is old legacy hardware, but I was hoping not to have to rip out and rewire 
the machine to support a newer interface card.

As to why not to soldier on with 10.04, I believe it has been decreed by the 
powers that be, if you want to go beyond Linuxcnc 2.7, thou shalt forsake Lucid.

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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 10 May 2017 17:15:05 giorgio foga wrote:

> sorry Gene I'm not american what is means: Yup, its dead
> Jim???  At least I can understand the trend he has developer
> views.
>
>
> regards
>
> giorgio

That is one of the more famous lines from the original Star Trek tv 
series.  So old, I think the reruns are still in black & white. Early 
1960's stuff.  Actually, I think the line was "He's dead, Jim", said in 
a flat monotone voice, but its been modified in common usage rather like 
back fence gossip.

We know it well on this side of the pond, and I keep forgetting this list 
goes anyplace you can get an internet connection.  My bad and fading 
memory at play.
> 
> Da: Gene Heskett 
> Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 12.52
> A: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
>
> On Wednesday 10 May 2017 03:49:24 giorgio foga wrote:
> > Renew my ideas to add "donate" button in top of forum .I know
> > many give a lot to the forum every day  others instead like me
> > much less ... and we are in many ... maybe in this way we can become
> > useful.
> >
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Giorgio
> >
> >
> > 
> > Da: Bengt Sjölund 
> > Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 08.50
> > A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
> >
> > And down again.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> > > I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > > On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> > >> It's up from here.
> > >>
> > >> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
> > >>
> > >> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund" 
>
> wrote:
> > >>> And down again!
> > >>>
> > >>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>> Bengt
>
> Yup, its dead Jim.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> [http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/pix/EasterSundayCropped2004-1.jpg]
>
>
> Gene's Web pages
> geneslinuxbox.net
> Welcome to Gene's web pages. Here you will find some of the things
> that make me tick, and that help keep me out of the bars. That is me &
> the missus, Dee (Elladene) I ...
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> Emc-users Info Page -
> SourceForge
> lists.sourceforge.net
> This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC).
> Topics include how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well
> as other general EMC related ...
>
>
> --
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> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 10 May 2017 12:22:13 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single core
> computer?
>
> I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some time
> on an older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install. It is an older P4 2.8gHz
> cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works reasonably well with Lucid.
> This PC is a little bit special in that it has some ISA slots on the
> motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to interface with the
> machine.
>
> I have tried several times to test or install the newer
> Linuxcnc/Wheezy iso. But it boots and runs painfully slow, and neither
> the latency tests or Linuxcnc will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc from
> the command line tells me nothing.
>
> Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version?

My first reaction is that the newer kernels have no ISA support without 
building your own and configuring that option back on, if it still 
exists in the latest kernel src linux needs to run well.

Realistically, ISA has been dead and had a few words said over it for at 
least 15 years. PCI is around 10-30x faster as the 7 MHz clocking was 
replaced with 33 MHz clocking, and offered bus widths up to 64 bits, 
whereas ISA was stuck with a 16 bit data bus.

Even that is considered slow these days. I'd not recommend a raspberry pi 
3b at this stage of the update your hardware game, even if mine is 
running linuxcnc again.  I'll have another post about that, but probably 
after I go round up some dinner for us, I have a theory I'd like to 
expound on a wee bit.

Film (term used very loosely) at 11.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[giorgio foga]

ok. Many thanks I did a good laugh  in addition it was a lot that I did not 
see anything about Star Trek


giorgio


Da: Kurt Jacobson 
Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 23.24
A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

https://youtu.be/MH7KYmGnj40

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:15 PM, giorgio foga 
wrote:

> sorry Gene I'm not american what is means: Yup, its dead Jim???
>  At least I can understand the trend he has developer views.
>
>
> regards
>
> giorgio
>
>
> 
> Da: Gene Heskett 
> Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 12.52
> A: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
>
> On Wednesday 10 May 2017 03:49:24 giorgio foga wrote:
>
> > Renew my ideas to add "donate" button in top of forum .I know many
> > give a lot to the forum every day  others instead like me much
> > less ... and we are in many ... maybe in this way we can become
> > useful.
> >
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Giorgio
> >
> >
> > 
> > Da: Bengt Sjölund 
> > Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 08.50
> > A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
> >
> > And down again.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> > > I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > > On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> > >> It's up from here.
> > >>
> > >> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
> > >>
> > >> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund" 
> wrote:
> > >>> And down again!
> > >>>
> > >>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>> Bengt
>
> Yup, its dead Jim.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
[http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/pix/EasterSundayCropped2004-1.jpg]

Gene's Web pages
geneslinuxbox.net
Welcome to Gene's web pages. Here you will find some of the things that make me 
tick, and that help keep me out of the bars. That is me & the missus, Dee 
(Elladene) I ...


> [http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/pix/EasterSundayCropped2004-1.jpg]<
> http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
[http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/pix/EasterSundayCropped2004-1.jpg]

Gene's Web pages
geneslinuxbox.net
Welcome to Gene's web pages. Here you will find some of the things that make me 
tick, and that help keep me out of the bars. That is me & the missus, Dee 
(Elladene) I ...


>
> Gene's Web pages
> geneslinuxbox.net
> Welcome to Gene's web pages. Here you will find some of the things that
> make me tick, and that help keep me out of the bars. That is me & the
> missus, Dee (Elladene) I ...
>
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> Emc-users Info Page - SourceForge listinfo/emc-users>
> lists.sourceforge.net
> This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics
> include how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other
> general EMC related ...
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[Kurt Jacobson]

https://youtu.be/MH7KYmGnj40

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:15 PM, giorgio foga 
wrote:

> sorry Gene I'm not american what is means: Yup, its dead Jim???
>  At least I can understand the trend he has developer views.
>
>
> regards
>
> giorgio
>
>
> 
> Da: Gene Heskett 
> Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 12.52
> A: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
>
> On Wednesday 10 May 2017 03:49:24 giorgio foga wrote:
>
> > Renew my ideas to add "donate" button in top of forum .I know many
> > give a lot to the forum every day  others instead like me much
> > less ... and we are in many ... maybe in this way we can become
> > useful.
> >
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Giorgio
> >
> >
> > 
> > Da: Bengt Sjölund 
> > Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 08.50
> > A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
> >
> > And down again.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> > > I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > > On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> > >> It's up from here.
> > >>
> > >> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
> > >>
> > >> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund" 
> wrote:
> > >>> And down again!
> > >>>
> > >>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>> Bengt
>
> Yup, its dead Jim.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> [http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/pix/EasterSundayCropped2004-1.jpg]<
> http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
> Gene's Web pages
> geneslinuxbox.net
> Welcome to Gene's web pages. Here you will find some of the things that
> make me tick, and that help keep me out of the bars. That is me & the
> missus, Dee (Elladene) I ...
>
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> Emc-users Info Page - SourceForge listinfo/emc-users>
> lists.sourceforge.net
> This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics
> include how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other
> general EMC related ...
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[giorgio foga]

sorry Gene I'm not american what is means: Yup, its dead Jim???  At 
least I can understand the trend he has developer views.


regards

giorgio



Da: Gene Heskett 
Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 12.52
A: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

On Wednesday 10 May 2017 03:49:24 giorgio foga wrote:

> Renew my ideas to add "donate" button in top of forum .I know many
> give a lot to the forum every day  others instead like me much
> less ... and we are in many ... maybe in this way we can become
> useful.
>
>
> regards
>
> Giorgio
>
>
> 
> Da: Bengt Sjölund 
> Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 08.50
> A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
>
> And down again.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> > I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
> >
> > JT
> >
> > On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> >> It's up from here.
> >>
> >> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
> >>
> >> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund" 
wrote:
> >>> And down again!
> >>>
> >>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Bengt

Yup, its dead Jim.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
[http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/pix/EasterSundayCropped2004-1.jpg]

Gene's Web pages
geneslinuxbox.net
Welcome to Gene's web pages. Here you will find some of the things that make me 
tick, and that help keep me out of the bars. That is me & the missus, Dee 
(Elladene) I ...



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Emc-users Info Page - 
SourceForge
lists.sourceforge.net
This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics include 
how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other general EMC 
related ...


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Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[giorgio foga]

and why not continue to use ubuntu 10.04?


 I suspect that your ram is a bit slow ... try to buy new one more fast ex. 
1333Mhz type and 2Gb 


regards

giorgio



Da: Todd Zuercher 
Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 18.22
A: Linuxcnc-Users
Oggetto: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single core computer?

I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some time on an 
older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install.
It is an older P4 2.8gHz cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works reasonably 
well with Lucid. This PC is a little bit special in that it has some ISA slots 
on the motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to interface with the 
machine.

I have tried several times to test or install the newer Linuxcnc/Wheezy iso. 
But it boots and runs painfully slow, and neither the latency tests or Linuxcnc 
will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc from the command line tells me nothing.

Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version?

--



Todd Zuercher
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Chris Albertson]

It's hard to know from what you've told us.   But one thing to look at is
to start the machine up.  do NOT start up X11.  Working at the command
promo on the monitor run the command "top" and you weill see cpu. memory
and swap file usage that is updated about eery second.

If the computer comes up in any graphic mode you need to disable that (look
in /etc/rc.d)



On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Todd Zuercher 
wrote:

> Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single core
> computer?
>
> I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some time on
> an older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install.
> It is an older P4 2.8gHz cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works
> reasonably well with Lucid. This PC is a little bit special in that it has
> some ISA slots on the motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to
> interface with the machine.
>
> I have tried several times to test or install the newer Linuxcnc/Wheezy
> iso. But it boots and runs painfully slow, and neither the latency tests or
> Linuxcnc will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc from the command line tells me
> nothing.
>
> Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version?
>
> --
>
> 
>
> Todd Zuercher
> mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com
>
> 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] crashing under 2.8.0-pre1

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 05/10/2017 12:16 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:
> I have compiled 2.8.0-pre1 from source for a non-trivkins
> project.  I am using a Mesa 7I43 board.  When I run linuxcnc
> with software stepgens (no hostmot2), all is well.  If I create
> a plain-vanilla Mesa-based stepper configuration with pncconf,
> the computer crashes during startup of linuxcnc and requires
> power cycling.
>
> Kernel: 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
> Distro: Debian 7.11 (wheezy)
>
> If I do a "test axis" during pncconf, I get this error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/pages.py", line 1129, 
> in
> on_zaxistune_clicked
> def on_zaxistune_clicked(self, *args): self.t.tune_axis('z')
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/tests.py", line 463, 
> in t
> une_axis
> if not self.a.check_for_rt():
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/bin/pncconf", line 1640, in check_for_rt
> elif hal.is_rt and not hal.kernel_version == actual_kernel:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'kernel_version'
>
> When I actually run linuxcnc from the configuration made by pncconf,
> I get a kernel panic:
>
> BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0508
> IP: [] handle_lxrt_request+0x58/0xaf0 [rtai_sched]
> *pde = 
> Oops:  [#1] PREEMPT SMP
>
> followed by more stack trace stuff.

Looks like you built linuxcnc from source and configured 
--with-realtime=uspace instead of 
--with-realtime=/usr/realtime-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae.

I'm able to reproduce the "no attribute 'kernel_version'" by configuring 
for uspace, but I don't have a 7i43 hooked up at the moment and without 
it I'm not able to reproduce the crash.


> Linux 2.7.8 with hostmot2 runs fine, as does 2.8.0-pre1 with software stepgen.
> Is this a problem of my making (and hence my solving), or is it a bug?  I'm
> wondering why I see mention of PREEMPT in the kernel panic when I am
> running an RTAI kernel.  Do I need to compile 2.8.0-pre1 differently?

Our 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae RTAI kernel has the normal Linux PREEMPT feature 
enabled (this is different than the RT-PREEMPT feature, and not as 
realtimey), in addition to the RTAI feature.


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Re: [Emc-users] crashing under 2.8.0-pre1

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I have successfully used 2.8.0-pre1 for quite a long time.


On Wed, 10 May 2017 18:16:48 +
Ralph Stirling  wrote:

> I have compiled 2.8.0-pre1 from source for a non-trivkins
> project.  I am using a Mesa 7I43 board.  When I run linuxcnc
> with software stepgens (no hostmot2), all is well.  If I create
> a plain-vanilla Mesa-based stepper configuration with pncconf,
> the computer crashes during startup of linuxcnc and requires
> power cycling.
> 
> Kernel: 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
> Distro: Debian 7.11 (wheezy)
> 
> If I do a "test axis" during pncconf, I get this error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/pages.py", line 1129, 
> in 
> on_zaxistune_clicked
> def on_zaxistune_clicked(self, *args): self.t.tune_axis('z')
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/tests.py", line 463, 
> in t
> une_axis
> if not self.a.check_for_rt():
>   File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/bin/pncconf", line 1640, in check_for_rt
> elif hal.is_rt and not hal.kernel_version == actual_kernel:
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'kernel_version'
> 
> When I actually run linuxcnc from the configuration made by pncconf,
> I get a kernel panic:
> 
> BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0508
> IP: [] handle_lxrt_request+0x58/0xaf0 [rtai_sched]
> *pde = 
> Oops:  [#1] PREEMPT SMP
> 
> followed by more stack trace stuff.
> 
> Linux 2.7.8 with hostmot2 runs fine, as does 2.8.0-pre1 with software stepgen.
> Is this a problem of my making (and hence my solving), or is it a bug?  I'm
> wondering why I see mention of PREEMPT in the kernel panic when I am
> running an RTAI kernel.  Do I need to compile 2.8.0-pre1 differently?
> 
> Thanks,
> -- Ralph
> --
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-- 
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[Emc-users] crashing under 2.8.0-pre1

[Ralph Stirling]

I have compiled 2.8.0-pre1 from source for a non-trivkins
project.  I am using a Mesa 7I43 board.  When I run linuxcnc
with software stepgens (no hostmot2), all is well.  If I create
a plain-vanilla Mesa-based stepper configuration with pncconf,
the computer crashes during startup of linuxcnc and requires
power cycling.

Kernel: 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
Distro: Debian 7.11 (wheezy)

If I do a "test axis" during pncconf, I get this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/pages.py", line 1129, in 
on_zaxistune_clicked
def on_zaxistune_clicked(self, *args): self.t.tune_axis('z')
  File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/lib/python/pncconf/tests.py", line 463, in t
une_axis
if not self.a.check_for_rt():
  File "/home/engrtech/linuxcnc-dev/bin/pncconf", line 1640, in check_for_rt
elif hal.is_rt and not hal.kernel_version == actual_kernel:
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'kernel_version'

When I actually run linuxcnc from the configuration made by pncconf,
I get a kernel panic:

BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 0508
IP: [] handle_lxrt_request+0x58/0xaf0 [rtai_sched]
*pde = 
Oops:  [#1] PREEMPT SMP

followed by more stack trace stuff.

Linux 2.7.8 with hostmot2 runs fine, as does 2.8.0-pre1 with software stepgen.
Is this a problem of my making (and hence my solving), or is it a bug?  I'm
wondering why I see mention of PREEMPT in the kernel panic when I am
running an RTAI kernel.  Do I need to compile 2.8.0-pre1 differently?

Thanks,
-- Ralph
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[Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Todd Zuercher]

Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single core 
computer? 

I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some time on an 
older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install. 
It is an older P4 2.8gHz cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works reasonably 
well with Lucid. This PC is a little bit special in that it has some ISA slots 
on the motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to interface with the 
machine. 

I have tried several times to test or install the newer Linuxcnc/Wheezy iso. 
But it boots and runs painfully slow, and neither the latency tests or Linuxcnc 
will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc from the command line tells me nothing. 

Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version? 

-- 

 

Todd Zuercher 
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 

 
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Re: [Emc-users] Cleaning Carbide Bits -plywood gue.

[Curtis Dutton]

This works very well for me. But the stuff is NASTY!

http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/naked-gun-spray-gun-paint-remover

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:23 AM,  wrote:
>
> > Was gonna say that.  Something's gotta be messed up to get that prob.
> >
>
> That might be true on a milling machine.  But my wood routers are hand held
> tools and I might be cutting plywood or white pine i.e. construction grade
> douglas fir that is still wet.  The blades get dunked up long before the
> carbine dulls.   A while back I cute hundreds of finger joints in 3/4"
> thick pine and the pine has pitch in it.But this is all carpentry, not
> machining
>
> >
> > Danny
> >
> >
> >  Todd  Zuercher  wrote:
> > > Honestly we hardly ever have to clean our tools, but we don't mill much
> > pitchy wood, mostly hardwoods and MDF.  For us if a tool is getting
> clogged
> > up, it is because it is too dull and is getting too hot, or the feed rate
> > is way to slow and it got too hot.  Either way it usually ends up in the
> > bin.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "craig" 
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:33:11 PM
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] Cleaning Carbide Bits -plywood gue.
> > >
> > > What is the best way to clean plywood glues off small carbide router
> > bits?
> > >
> > > I use small carbide bits to work wood and sometimes plywood.  Mostly
> > > smaller than 3mm(1/8 in) bits.
> > > Sometimes plywood glue melts onto the bits.Cleaning them is a
> > > problem.  Suggestions?
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > 
> > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > 
> > --
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > 
> > --
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> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] [emc-users] Building from source

[Evan Foss]

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:
> On 05/09/2017 10:15 PM, Evan Foss wrote:
>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 3:13 AM, Evan Foss  wrote:
>>> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 1:09 PM, suavesteve  wrote:
 I've come across this earlier and had created a local patch,
>>>
>>> Would you please dig that patch out and share it?
>>>
 Tested with both v3.0.6 and v3.1.4 (Latest Stable release)

>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>
>> Your patch for libmodplug works so linuxcnc-2.7.8 now fails at install
>> instead of build (just like the git head). I am going to call that a
>> win.
>
> Beware there's a bug in that patch: it builds, but it makes the timeout
> wrong.  I've asked suavesteve to update it.

I appreciate the warning but if you are talking about a communications
timeout I don't care since people are only going to use it for
simulation and for the gerber processing library. I will warn people
that if they intend on using it to run a real machine they need to use
the OS image linuxcnc provides.

>> this is what the make install produces
>>
>> Makefile:536: warning: undefined variable 'DESTDIR'
>
> We recommend against running "make install", unless you're building
> binary packages for distribution.  The reason for that recommendation is
> that "make install" copies the linuxcnc build products into your system
> without any kind of tracking, so you can't easily uninstall them later,
> and if a future version of linuxcnc *stops* installing a file, the old
> one will be left behind when you upgrade.
>
> We recommend instead building managed binary packages (like our .debs)
> or using the "run-in-place" feature of our build system, and running
> linuxcnc out of the build directory, without installing.

Ok I will look at that again tonight.

> If you still want to make install, set the DESTDIR environment variable
> to the directory you want to install into.  Something like
> "DESTDIR=/home/user1/programs/linuxcnc make install".
>
> Depending on where the DESTDIR path is, you may need root permissions to
> write there.

I tried that and it still was determined to shove stuff into /. The
directory i was using is in my home and I have the permissions set
correctly.

>
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] [emc-users] Building from source

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 05/09/2017 10:15 PM, Evan Foss wrote:
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 3:13 AM, Evan Foss  wrote:
>> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 1:09 PM, suavesteve  wrote:
>>> I've come across this earlier and had created a local patch,
>>
>> Would you please dig that patch out and share it?
>>
>>> Tested with both v3.0.6 and v3.1.4 (Latest Stable release)
>>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> Your patch for libmodplug works so linuxcnc-2.7.8 now fails at install
> instead of build (just like the git head). I am going to call that a
> win.

Beware there's a bug in that patch: it builds, but it makes the timeout 
wrong.  I've asked suavesteve to update it.


> this is what the make install produces
>
> Makefile:536: warning: undefined variable 'DESTDIR'

We recommend against running "make install", unless you're building 
binary packages for distribution.  The reason for that recommendation is 
that "make install" copies the linuxcnc build products into your system 
without any kind of tracking, so you can't easily uninstall them later, 
and if a future version of linuxcnc *stops* installing a file, the old 
one will be left behind when you upgrade.

We recommend instead building managed binary packages (like our .debs) 
or using the "run-in-place" feature of our build system, and running 
linuxcnc out of the build directory, without installing.

If you still want to make install, set the DESTDIR environment variable 
to the directory you want to install into.  Something like 
"DESTDIR=/home/user1/programs/linuxcnc make install".

Depending on where the DESTDIR path is, you may need root permissions to 
write there.


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] [emc-users] Building from source

[Evan Foss]

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 5:29 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> On 10 May 2017 at 05:15, Evan Foss  wrote:
>> Your patch for libmodplug works so linuxcnc-2.7.8 now fails at install
>> instead of build (just like the git head). I am going to call that a
>> win.
>
> --prefix _might_ help with that.

I am using that.. as i already said this is the line i am using to
configure linuxcnc
./configure --enable-simulator --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.7
--with-boost-python=2.7 --prefix=/home/user1/programs/linuxcnc

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 10 May 2017 03:49:24 giorgio foga wrote:

> Renew my ideas to add "donate" button in top of forum .I know many
> give a lot to the forum every day  others instead like me much
> less ... and we are in many ... maybe in this way we can become
> useful.
>
>
> regards
>
> Giorgio
>
>
> 
> Da: Bengt Sjölund 
> Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 08.50
> A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?
>
> And down again.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> > I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
> >
> > JT
> >
> > On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> >> It's up from here.
> >>
> >> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
> >>
> >> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund"  
wrote:
> >>> And down again!
> >>>
> >>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Bengt

Yup, its dead Jim.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] [emc-users] Building from source

[andy pugh]

On 10 May 2017 at 05:15, Evan Foss  wrote:
> Your patch for libmodplug works so linuxcnc-2.7.8 now fails at install
> instead of build (just like the git head). I am going to call that a
> win.

--prefix _might_ help with that.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Gui Feature Request

[robert - Innovative-RC]

i think you are looking for something you get on machines with Pallet 
systems attached mostly

normaly they have a screen on the pallet end where you can set what job 
is set to which pallet, the newer machins you can also set which jobs 
are set to each pallet face (or multi jobs to a pallet face), and then 
turn them on and off as needed (also a program can flag/turn a program 
also if it detect broken tools etc)

kinda of a must if your running production on a pallet system.







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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[giorgio foga]

Renew my ideas to add "donate" button in top of forum .I know many give a 
lot to the forum every day  others instead like me much less ... and we are 
in many ... maybe in this way we can become useful.


regards

Giorgio



Da: Bengt Sjölund 
Inviato: mercoledì 10 maggio 2017 08.50
A: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Oggetto: Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

And down again.

Cheers
Bengt


Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
>
> JT
>
>
> On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> It's up from here.
>>
>> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
>>
>>
>> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund"  wrote:
>>> And down again!
>>>
>>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Bengt
>>>
>>>
>>> Den 2017-04-30 kl. 19:58, skrev Jon Elson:
 On 04/29/2017 04:26 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
 And, it seems to be back up!

  Thanks,

 Jon


>>> --
 Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
 engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Emc-users Info Page - 
SourceForge
lists.sourceforge.net
This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics include 
how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other general EMC 
related ...


>>> --
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>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Emc-users Info Page - 
SourceForge
lists.sourceforge.net
This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics include 
how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other general EMC 
related ...


>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Emc-users Info Page - 
SourceForge
lists.sourceforge.net
This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics include 
how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other general EMC 
related ...




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Re: [Emc-users] Forum down?

[Bengt Sjölund]

And down again.

Cheers
Bengt


Den 2017-05-09 kl. 15:58, skrev John Thornton:
> I had to power cycle it this morning around 5am central time.
>
> JT
>
>
> On 5/9/2017 7:24 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> It's up from here.
>>
>> http://isup.me/forum.linuxcnc.org
>>
>>
>> On May 9, 2017 1:49:45 AM MDT, "Bengt Sjölund"  wrote:
>>> And down again!
>>>
>>> What is it with the forum that goes down very often?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Bengt
>>>
>>>
>>> Den 2017-04-30 kl. 19:58, skrev Jon Elson:
 On 04/29/2017 04:26 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
 And, it seems to be back up!

  Thanks,

 Jon


>>> --
 Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
 engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> --
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>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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