Re: [Emc-users] web server, apache2 in your wheezy disk

2015-02-08 Thread Mark Wendt
On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Saturday, February 07, 2015 08:14:50 AM Mark Wendt wrote:
  On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
   greetings guys;
  
   I have now installed just about the whole thing with an apache2 in its
   name.
  
   Without finding the launching scripts that were in /etc/init.d in the
   10.04.4
   LTS install.  Has systemd struck and its all been moved?
  
   If so, where are the launching and control files now?
  
   Thanks.
  
   Cheers, Gene Heskett
  
  
   service httpd start|stop|restart   # As a privileged or sudo user
 
  Files are usually located in /etc/httpd/conf

 Thanks Mark.

 Those I found and transplanted, as was the script in /etc/init.d

 But I find it odd that the synaptic install of apache2 did not install
 these
 startup scripts.  Next I'd imagine, since it will not be automatically
 started at boot time, is to locate and transplant the apach2 links in all
 the /etc/rc.# directories.  Done, so apache2 ought to be restarted early in
 the init sequence now.  Or killed as the case might be.

 Now I have to do a search of all this cache of email here and see if I can
 find a reference to the F10 key, its tied to a close window requester
 poppup
 that to me is fully equivalent to the tits on a boar hog in uselessness.
 Now
 I hit F10 to exit mc and have to use 3 more mouse clicks to quit it, when
 dammit if I din't intend to quit mc, I never would have pushed the F10 key.
 If I knew which genius did that, I'd tighten his head onto his neck about 3
 more turns! 10.04.4 LTS had a config file option that made shutting that
 off a
 piece of no sugar added cake, but I cannot find it in these wheezy based
 menu's.  Gr.

 Cheers, Gene Heskett



Gene,

The trend in Unix and Linux is to get away from the startup scripts in the
rc directories and go to, if I remember right, upstart to kick off the
services.  If you look in /etc/init there are a bunch of conf files used by
upstart to start, stop and manage the services running at your runlevel.

A # service --status-all will show you all the service processes running.
If you want a certain service, such as httpd to run at whatever runlevel
you want, you use 'chkconfig to see if it's already running, to set what
runlevels you want it to run at or to disable the service.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany
Thanks John.  Never have seen the Leadshine drivers.  I'll take a look.


On 2/8/2015 12:16 PM, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
 Dean;

 Personally - my location makes my situation different than yours.

 I have 3 CNC builds - two with Gecko 540s, one with Leadshine stepper
 drivers ordered from China.

 Ok - of the Gecko G540 machines; one is Mesa 5i25 driven, the other is
 software stepping. The 5i25/G540 really works VERY well. It did take a bit
 of asking questions to get the HAL files ok, but chalk that one up to
 learning.

 The Leadshine drivers (with Mesa 5i25/7i76) is very good. The stepper
 motors are quiet, while the G540 driven steppers have a strange white
 noise/humming on both machines when idle. This machine appears to be the
 way to go.

 I lost a G540 driver earlier this week; on the A axis on a lathe that had
 only the X and Z axes wired in. Ie, there was no load on it, but it smoked
 anyway. I don't know if I'll bother ordering a replacement driver module
 for it.

 The G540 has a max input voltage of something around 48v, while the
 Leadshine drivers I got go up to, I believe, 80volts but check. If correct
 it means you can keep your original power supply.

 My location situation? Being in Canada, while I want to support my
 brothers/sisters in the USA, it's cheaper to order in from China,
 especially with the recent devaluation of the Canadian dollar.

 You may find that the Leadshine stepper drivers are actually name-badged
 from the old Keiling site - AutomationDirect, I think it is called now.

 Hope this helps.
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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany
Hi Jon:
Thanks for the input.  I guess I had two things that I wondered about 
when I was considering this.  What, if anything special, am I getting in 
the big name industrial drive from Parker that I can't get from a 
lower priced Gecko or Leadshine?  And is it worth the money.  And 
second, are there any performance issues in mixing drive components, say 
Parker and Gecko?


On 2/8/2015 12:25 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
 On 02/08/2015 10:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:
 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.


 Well, A Gecko 203 is less than HALF the price of your Parker
 REPAIR, and meets the
 7.5 A 75 V spec, too.  Seems like a no brainer to me!  I
 used the Gecko 201 in
 some old projects, and they were VERY good.  The reason I do
 not make stepper
 drives is because the Gecko is so good, I'd never come
 close.  It should be very
 easy to drop in Geckos as the Parker drives fail, or just
 swap them all at once.

 Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dave Cole
On 2/8/2015 11:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:
 A little background :

 About six years ago, as I was just starting to design my shop-built
 gantry machine, I came across a SUPER deal on Ebay for six sets of drive
 components. Each set included a line filter, Parker OEM300 75V, 7.5A
 power supply, Parker OEM750 stepper driver and a stepper motor. I didn't
 know a whole lot about this stuff a the time, but I knew it was a deal I
 couldn't pass up. So, they became the drive system for my CNC build. As
 it turned out, only five of the six drivers worked. Thas wasn't a
 problem (especially for what I'd paid for them) because my gantry is
 only (at least for now) a 3-axis machine. But, six years later I've lost
 two additional OEM750's and I'm now running on my last three. Another
 failure and I'm down and its decision time.

 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.

 If it was your problem, what direction would you go?

 Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 Dean


Dean,

I've got a stack of Parker OEM750 drives here.  A couple of them are 
new, unused.
I've used them and they seem to be very good drives.I haven't had 
any failures.
I've got three running old Bridgeport Stepper motors without problems.

I think that Parker is still selling them.
http://www.parkermotion.com/products/Stepper_Drives_and_Motors__4003__30_32_80_567_29.html

I'm wondering why they are failing on you?
Do you have the drives heat sinked?The back of the drives are smooth 
aluminum and are designed to be
heatsinked to a backplane or the heatsink that Parker sold (use heat 
sink compound).
If you break the drive to motor electrical connection while the motors 
are energized that will oftentimes kill the stepper drive.
I would not pay $280 to have those drives repaired.   Jon is right, the 
Geckos offer similar performance for less.
The Parker drives show up on Ebay periodically for reasonable and 
unreasonable prices.

At one time Parker was selling these drives for about $750 each. But I 
think that Gecko and Leadshine has been tough competition for Parker.

I've used the Gecko 203V drives myself and have used them on industrial 
machines.   But the Geckos need to be heatsinked as well.

You can run with mixed Parker/Gecko drives on your machine.   The 
machine won't care.   I use the same timing parameters for the Geckos as 
I do the Parker 750's.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Gene Heskett
On Sunday, February 08, 2015 11:40:19 AM Dean Posekany wrote:
 A little background :
 
 About six years ago, as I was just starting to design my shop-built
 gantry machine, I came across a SUPER deal on Ebay for six sets of drive
 components. Each set included a line filter, Parker OEM300 75V, 7.5A
 power supply, Parker OEM750 stepper driver and a stepper motor. I didn't
 know a whole lot about this stuff a the time, but I knew it was a deal I
 couldn't pass up. So, they became the drive system for my CNC build. As
 it turned out, only five of the six drivers worked. Thas wasn't a
 problem (especially for what I'd paid for them) because my gantry is
 only (at least for now) a 3-axis machine. But, six years later I've lost
 two additional OEM750's and I'm now running on my last three. Another
 failure and I'm down and its decision time.
 
 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.
 
 If it was your problem, what direction would you go?
 
 Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 
 Dean

Stepper Electronics 101 is in session. ;-)

Drive designs and dependability have come a long long way since 1997.  I 
personally have 6 of the 2M542 drivers running my stuff and they seem to 
be bulletproof, withstanding motor shorts or opens by responding with an 
instant shut down that you must power cycle them to recover from. 
These drives have a big brother, for not too much more money, rated at 
80 volts and 6+ amps to the motors.  There will be an 860 in the part 
number for those drives. 

I am running my lathe, an early early 7x12 with a 1 hp spindle motor, 
with a 425oz nema 23 geared down 2/1 on the carriage screw, now a 
now 16mmx5 ball screw, and a 262 oz on the rear of the carriage, direct 
drive to a small ball screw to run the y.  All this running on a  surplus
tranny/rectifier and a couple 10,000 uf caps caps putting out about 37
to 38 volts.  Rock solid and 60+ ipm on the Z.

My mill was the first conversion, an X1 with the LMS big table kit, but
only a 28 volt supply so its not super dependable north of 10 ipm.  
Power supplies in the 40 to 50 volt range are hard to find and I  wound 
up buying a 5 pack of 48 volt, 3.3 amp switchers off ebay for a $95 bill, 
all will be paralleled thru .5 ohm wirewound resistors to insure enough 
load sharing that the overcurrents will not easily cascade.  Tested 
laying on the table with one 425 oz 8 wire motor wired series so it runs
on about 2.5 amps, and driving my spare 2M542 driver with a function 
generator, I can get, with lots of torque, better than 2000 revs, and did
see over 3500 several times before it locked.  That speed also disclosed 
that the opto-isolators in the 2m542 inputs weren't all that fast as it 
was quite sensitive to the applied duty cycle. That was a bit north of
375 kilohertz from the generator with the drive set at  /8 microstepping.

For your bigger setup, this looks like the best deal on ebay ATM:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DM860-2-4-phase-Nema34-Stepper-motor-driver-256micsteps-7-8A-24-50VDC-
CE-/251522680246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a8feb85b6

He has 7 left ATM. And despite his claim of a 50 volt rating, all the
other DM860's listed are rated at 80 volts. Immediately above that
listing is a 3 pack of them for $159.  Rated at 80 volts.  Typo? Check
with the vendor to be sure they aren't 2nds or?

And I see suitable 60 volt power supplies, use one per motor, at similar
prices.  But I expect your 70 volt Parkers are not switchers but analog,
and barring transformer failures, are fixable on your own workbench.  
At their age, I would replace all the electrolytic caps in them if there 
is any problem.

If you have an oscilloscope, bad/old caps will be obvious because of the 20
volt or more noise spikes from the motor drivers at the supply outputs.
A digital DVM may not show that noise as its way to high a frequency
to register on a DVM.  Their AC voltage ranges loose any semblance of
accuracy when the AC they are measuring is not 50 to 60 Hz.  And the
comment goes triple for any DVM claiming to be RMS accurate, that log
amplifier that does that is very slow.  So the HF noise is  ignored.

Yes, I am a Certified Electronics Technician.  And I like to teach.  And 
being both 80 yo, and long retired myself, I do consider the 

[Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany
A little background :

About six years ago, as I was just starting to design my shop-built 
gantry machine, I came across a SUPER deal on Ebay for six sets of drive 
components. Each set included a line filter, Parker OEM300 75V, 7.5A 
power supply, Parker OEM750 stepper driver and a stepper motor. I didn't 
know a whole lot about this stuff a the time, but I knew it was a deal I 
couldn't pass up. So, they became the drive system for my CNC build. As 
it turned out, only five of the six drivers worked. Thas wasn't a 
problem (especially for what I'd paid for them) because my gantry is 
only (at least for now) a 3-axis machine. But, six years later I've lost 
two additional OEM750's and I'm now running on my last three. Another 
failure and I'm down and its decision time.

Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired 
and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of 
money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the 
next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750 
(~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with 
something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been 
pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the 
software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast 
enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were 
released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real 
world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.

If it was your problem, what direction would you go?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Dean

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dave Caroline
My old Starturn lathe came with a smaller drive that failed, the
repair was about £4 for a chip, it can be very cheap to do your own
drive repair.

Dave

On 08/02/2015, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 On 02/08/2015 10:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:

 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.


 Well, A Gecko 203 is less than HALF the price of your Parker
 REPAIR, and meets the
 7.5 A 75 V spec, too.  Seems like a no brainer to me!  I
 used the Gecko 201 in
 some old projects, and they were VERY good.  The reason I do
 not make stepper
 drives is because the Gecko is so good, I'd never come
 close.  It should be very
 easy to drop in Geckos as the Parker drives fail, or just
 swap them all at once.

 Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany
Dave:
That crossed my mind and I've done some SMD board repair before. I've 
spent the past two days searching for repair info on these drives and 
have come up empty.  I've got no clue as to where to start on these as 
far as repair goes.


On 2/8/2015 12:39 PM, Dave Caroline wrote:
 My old Starturn lathe came with a smaller drive that failed, the
 repair was about £4 for a chip, it can be very cheap to do your own
 drive repair.

 Dave

 On 08/02/2015, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 On 02/08/2015 10:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:
 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.


 Well, A Gecko 203 is less than HALF the price of your Parker
 REPAIR, and meets the
 7.5 A 75 V spec, too.  Seems like a no brainer to me!  I
 used the Gecko 201 in
 some old projects, and they were VERY good.  The reason I do
 not make stepper
 drives is because the Gecko is so good, I'd never come
 close.  It should be very
 easy to drop in Geckos as the Parker drives fail, or just
 swap them all at once.

 Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread John Alexander Stewart
Dean;

Personally - my location makes my situation different than yours.

I have 3 CNC builds - two with Gecko 540s, one with Leadshine stepper
drivers ordered from China.

Ok - of the Gecko G540 machines; one is Mesa 5i25 driven, the other is
software stepping. The 5i25/G540 really works VERY well. It did take a bit
of asking questions to get the HAL files ok, but chalk that one up to
learning.

The Leadshine drivers (with Mesa 5i25/7i76) is very good. The stepper
motors are quiet, while the G540 driven steppers have a strange white
noise/humming on both machines when idle. This machine appears to be the
way to go.

I lost a G540 driver earlier this week; on the A axis on a lathe that had
only the X and Z axes wired in. Ie, there was no load on it, but it smoked
anyway. I don't know if I'll bother ordering a replacement driver module
for it.

The G540 has a max input voltage of something around 48v, while the
Leadshine drivers I got go up to, I believe, 80volts but check. If correct
it means you can keep your original power supply.

My location situation? Being in Canada, while I want to support my
brothers/sisters in the USA, it's cheaper to order in from China,
especially with the recent devaluation of the Canadian dollar.

You may find that the Leadshine stepper drivers are actually name-badged
from the old Keiling site - AutomationDirect, I think it is called now.

Hope this helps.
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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Jon Elson
On 02/08/2015 10:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:

 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.


Well, A Gecko 203 is less than HALF the price of your Parker 
REPAIR, and meets the
7.5 A 75 V spec, too.  Seems like a no brainer to me!  I 
used the Gecko 201 in
some old projects, and they were VERY good.  The reason I do 
not make stepper
drives is because the Gecko is so good, I'd never come 
close.  It should be very
easy to drop in Geckos as the Parker drives fail, or just 
swap them all at once.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] web server, apache2 in your wheezy disk

2015-02-08 Thread Gene Heskett
On Sunday, February 08, 2015 08:19:10 AM Mark Wendt wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  On Saturday, February 07, 2015 08:14:50 AM Mark Wendt wrote:
   On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com 
wrote:
greetings guys;

I have now installed just about the whole thing with an apache2 in
its name.

Without finding the launching scripts that were in /etc/init.d in
the 10.04.4
LTS install.  Has systemd struck and its all been moved?

If so, where are the launching and control files now?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett


service httpd start|stop|restart   # As a privileged or sudo user
   
   Files are usually located in /etc/httpd/conf
  
  Thanks Mark.
  
  Those I found and transplanted, as was the script in /etc/init.d
  
  But I find it odd that the synaptic install of apache2 did not install
  these
  startup scripts.  Next I'd imagine, since it will not be automatically
  started at boot time, is to locate and transplant the apach2 links in
  all the /etc/rc.# directories.  Done, so apache2 ought to be restarted
  early in the init sequence now.  Or killed as the case might be.
  
  Now I have to do a search of all this cache of email here and see if I
  can find a reference to the F10 key, its tied to a close window
  requester poppup
  that to me is fully equivalent to the tits on a boar hog in
  uselessness. Now
  I hit F10 to exit mc and have to use 3 more mouse clicks to quit it,
  when dammit if I din't intend to quit mc, I never would have pushed
  the F10 key. If I knew which genius did that, I'd tighten his head
  onto his neck about 3 more turns! 10.04.4 LTS had a config file option
  that made shutting that off a
  piece of no sugar added cake, but I cannot find it in these wheezy
  based menu's.  Gr.
  
  Cheers, Gene Heskett
 
 Gene,
 
 The trend in Unix and Linux is to get away from the startup scripts in
 the rc directories and go to, if I remember right, upstart to kick off
 the services.  If you look in /etc/init there are a bunch of conf files
 used by upstart to start, stop and manage the services running at your
 runlevel.

I am aware of that, but it apparently hasn't yet invaded debian, wheezy 
(debian 7.8) doesn't even install it.
 
 A # service --status-all will show you all the service processes
 running. If you want a certain service, such as httpd to run at whatever
 runlevel you want, you use 'chkconfig to see if it's already running,
 to set what runlevels you want it to run at or to disable the service.

And chkconfig ??
-bash: chkconfig: command not found

 root@coyote:/home/amanda/amanda-3.3.6# locate chkconfig
/mnt/ltsslash/etc/bash_completion.d/chkconfig
/mnt/ltsslash/sbin/chkconfig
/mnt/ltsslash/usr/share/doc/chkconfig
/mnt/ltsslash/usr/share/doc/chkconfig/changelog.Debian.gz
/mnt/ltsslash/usr/share/doc/chkconfig/copyright
/mnt/ltsslash/usr/share/man/man8/chkconfig.8.gz
/mnt/ltsslash/usr/share/zsh/functions/Completion/Unix/_chkconfig
/mnt/ltsslash/var/lib/dpkg/info/chkconfig.list
/mnt/ltsslash/var/lib/dpkg/info/chkconfig.md5sums
/usr/share/bash-completion/completions/chkconfig

/mnt/ltsslash is the old, now read-only drive.

Calling up synaptic, chkconfig was not included in the default install, but 
is now installed.  Strange indeed, chkconfig should be part of any base 
install, and there is oodles of room in the dvd image.

And there is obviously something else on the missing list. I am trying to 
build amanda, the backup program and get it to install here.  But most of my 
configure options are being miss-set or just plain ignored by configure, so 
its building duff executables that aren't even owner:group correct, and 
looking for its support files just as if I had set --prefix=/usr, when the 
driver scripts says /usr/local.

I've got more miss-fires than a gatling gun with a broken firing pin!

This install seems stable, but it is being a cast iron bitch at the same 
time.  Its the hybrid.iso for wheezy from linuxcnc.org, now with an rt-
preempt-686-pae kernel installed and running.

I just now posted the nearly 2 megabyte config.log to the amanda-users list, 
hoping someone can put 33 together and come up with the next clue. 

Thanks Mark

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany

On 2/8/2015 2:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

 Yes, I am a Certified Electronics Technician.  And I like to teach.  And
 being both 80 yo, and long retired myself, I do consider the costs in
 the long view if I can.

Thanks Gene.  I'm a loong way from an electronics technician. So, if 
you're willing to teach, I'm certainly willing to listen.

 They will be happier, with the drivers running cooler, and the motors
 may have much better high speed torque when those caps are big enough
 and fresh.

 Be aware that some switching supplies are not at all happy driving a
 stepper due to the high recirculating currents causing what the switcher
 thinks is an overvoltage, tripping it off, so its recommended by
 great-grandpa Gene here,  to isolate the switcher from the load a wee
 bit with a small power resistor, .5 ohms or less, and a large, low ESR
 capacitor which will serve as the recycle currant container for most of
 the voltage spikes that are part and parcel of todays stepper drivers.

I agree with your earlier thought.  I don't think these are switching 
supplies.


 All of my drivers are looking at 10,000 uf or more at their input
 terminals, and the switchers then seem to behave well with the extra cap
 to gobble up much of that noise.

 Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] video

2015-02-08 Thread Kirk Wallace
On 02/08/2015 01:02 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 When you want 5 axis verification your choices are severely limited and
 very expensive.


Oops. I forgot about your axes super powers.

It seems to be on OpenSCAM's list:

Future Plans

Many features are planed for the future of OpenSCAM. Much of this 
depends on the availability of developer time and funding.

Here are some of the current ideas:

 Real-time cutting simulation.
 Rotational axis simulation.
 5-axis simulation.
...


So it still might be a good starting point.

-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany

On 2/8/2015 2:16 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 On 02/08/2015 10:11 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
 ... snip
 I'm wondering why they are failing on you?
 Do you have the drives heat sinked?The back of the drives are smooth
 aluminum and are designed to be
 heatsinked to a backplane or the heatsink that Parker sold (use heat
 sink compound).
 If you break the drive to motor electrical connection while the motors
 are energized that will oftentimes kill the stepper drive.
 I would not pay $280 to have those drives repaired.   Jon is right, the
 Geckos offer similar performance for less.
 This may or may not apply but, I blew out some of my very old unipolar
 drives recently. So far, my guess is that the problem might come about
 when I power up the drives. I have a mains relay that energizes with the
 e-stop button release. I think the problem is that the drives are always
 enabled and are in a confused state when the power comes on. I haven't
 taken the time to investigate this, but it might be worth considering.

 These drives use a relatively low frequency PWM to limit current and
 make a significant amount of noise. Newer drives can use newer
 technology and components to run the PWM at higher frequency. I got a
 Leadshine'ish (MA860H from eBay) drive to replace one of my blown out
 drives and the current limit is silent, meaning the frequency is
 probably above 10kHz. I suppose young'ns may be able to here it.

 So, it might be worth making sure the drives are not enabled until the
 power has stabilized. Also, as a relay opens or closes, there might be
 damaging voltage spikes. Plus, power input filers are usually a good
 thing to add in front of PWM type drives and VFDs to help reduce
 electrical noise but may also provide some protection.

Kirk, I think this is a problem with my set-up.  Every time I power up 
my system, I hear the steppers lock up.

Stupid question time: How would one do this?  Currently I have a 
switched feed that feeds --line filters---power supplies---drivers.

Would I need to put a switch between each PS and driver?




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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Kirk Wallace
On 02/08/2015 01:19 PM, Dean Posekany wrote:
... snip
 Stupid question time: How would one do this?  Currently I have a
 switched feed that feeds --line filters---power supplies---drivers.

 Would I need to put a switch between each PS and driver?

On my mill, I think I should have linked the drive enables to AXIS' 
machine-on button. This way, when AXIS first comes up, I press e-stop, 
which powers up the drives through the mains relay, then press the 
machine-on button which turns the enables on (which currently are on 
when LinuxCNC loads). It should be easy to check, but I haven't gotten 
round to it. One down side is that the transistors on my drives blow out 
before the fuses and I have to replace them every time I test. The 
traces have started to pull up so replacing transistors is a bit of a 
project, and I don't see much point in beating a dying horse.


-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Kirk Wallace
On 02/08/2015 11:16 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
... snip
 technology and components to run the PWM at higher frequency. I got a
 Leadshine'ish (MA860H from eBay) drive to replace one of my blown out
 drives and the current limit is silent, meaning the frequency is
 probably above 10kHz. I suppose young'ns may be able to here it.
... snip

By the way, I have a couple MA860H pictures here:
http://wallacecompany.com/ma860h/

This is the vendor:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331393094727

(They shipped it right away, but it took a few weeks to be delivered)

It is driving an old NEMA 42 motor with a 75 VAC power input, set to 1/4 
stepping, from the parallel port with about 80 IPM maximum speed on this 
machine:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/

-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Jon Elson
On 02/08/2015 11:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:
 Hi Jon:
 Thanks for the input.  I guess I had two things that I wondered about
 when I was considering this.  What, if anything special, am I getting in
 the big name industrial drive from Parker that I can't get from a
 lower priced Gecko or Leadshine?
Ummm, maybe nothing??!!  The Parkers are failing on you, 
that ought to be an
indication SOMETHING in their design is poor.  I think the 
Leadshines, at
least maybe the first ones, were blatant ripoffs of the 
Gecko drive.
And is it worth the money.  And
 second, are there any performance issues in mixing drive components, say
 Parker and Gecko?

Very unlikely to be any performance issues in mining drives, 
except that
your Parkers may fail faster as the last few get older.  
Really, the only issue
is to make sure the source of the step/direction signals has 
enough drive
for the Gecko's opto-isolated inputs.  I think the new ones 
require much
less drive than their first models.

Jon

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[Emc-users] video

2015-02-08 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Guys,
  I just watched a video on C++. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rub-JsjMhWY
Reading the comments I saw a name 'Moronicsmurf' refer to LinuxCNC.
Is this someone we know? If we don't, we should get to know him.
Looks as if he understands LinuxCNC very well.
I found this because I am trying to find the best way to build a gcode
verification application.
I want to translate the gcode to OpenSCAD instructions so I can remove the
material described by the gcode motion from a solid model imported into
OpenSCAD.
What would anyone suggest is the best application to do the translation?
thanks
Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] video

2015-02-08 Thread andy pugh
On 8 February 2015 at 20:41, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote:
 I found this because I am trying to find the best way to build a gcode
 verification application.
 I want to translate the gcode to OpenSCAD instructions so I can remove the
 material described by the gcode motion from a solid model imported into
 OpenSCAD.

There are existing software packages that do that. Is this a wheel
than needs to be reinvented?

http://www.cutviewer.com is one I know of.

-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] video

2015-02-08 Thread Stuart Stevenson
He'll Andy there have been software/hardware packages control motion for a
few decades. Reinventing the wheel seems to be the usual MO around here. :)
On Feb 8, 2015 3:00 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 8 February 2015 at 20:41, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com
 wrote:
  I found this because I am trying to find the best way to build a gcode
  verification application.
  I want to translate the gcode to OpenSCAD instructions so I can remove
 the
  material described by the gcode motion from a solid model imported into
  OpenSCAD.

 There are existing software packages that do that. Is this a wheel
 than needs to be reinvented?

 http://www.cutviewer.com is one I know of.

 --
 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Kirk Wallace
On 02/08/2015 10:11 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
... snip
 I'm wondering why they are failing on you?
 Do you have the drives heat sinked?The back of the drives are smooth
 aluminum and are designed to be
 heatsinked to a backplane or the heatsink that Parker sold (use heat
 sink compound).
 If you break the drive to motor electrical connection while the motors
 are energized that will oftentimes kill the stepper drive.
 I would not pay $280 to have those drives repaired.   Jon is right, the
 Geckos offer similar performance for less.

This may or may not apply but, I blew out some of my very old unipolar 
drives recently. So far, my guess is that the problem might come about 
when I power up the drives. I have a mains relay that energizes with the 
e-stop button release. I think the problem is that the drives are always 
enabled and are in a confused state when the power comes on. I haven't 
taken the time to investigate this, but it might be worth considering.

These drives use a relatively low frequency PWM to limit current and 
make a significant amount of noise. Newer drives can use newer 
technology and components to run the PWM at higher frequency. I got a 
Leadshine'ish (MA860H from eBay) drive to replace one of my blown out 
drives and the current limit is silent, meaning the frequency is 
probably above 10kHz. I suppose young'ns may be able to here it.

So, it might be worth making sure the drives are not enabled until the 
power has stabilized. Also, as a relay opens or closes, there might be 
damaging voltage spikes. Plus, power input filers are usually a good 
thing to add in front of PWM type drives and VFDs to help reduce 
electrical noise but may also provide some protection.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] video

2015-02-08 Thread Kirk Wallace
On 02/08/2015 12:12 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Guys,
I just watched a video on C++. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rub-JsjMhWY
 Reading the comments I saw a name 'Moronicsmurf' refer to LinuxCNC.
 Is this someone we know? If we don't, we should get to know him.
 Looks as if he understands LinuxCNC very well.
 I found this because I am trying to find the best way to build a gcode
 verification application.
 I want to translate the gcode to OpenSCAD instructions so I can remove the
 material described by the gcode motion from a solid model imported into
 OpenSCAD.
 What would anyone suggest is the best application to do the translation?
 thanks
 Stuart


I found this recently:
http://openscam.com/


-- 
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http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] video

2015-02-08 Thread Stuart Stevenson
When you want 5 axis verification your choices are severely limited and
very expensive.
On Feb 8, 2015 3:00 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 8 February 2015 at 20:41, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com
 wrote:
  I found this because I am trying to find the best way to build a gcode
  verification application.
  I want to translate the gcode to OpenSCAD instructions so I can remove
 the
  material described by the gcode motion from a solid model imported into
  OpenSCAD.

 There are existing software packages that do that. Is this a wheel
 than needs to be reinvented?

 http://www.cutviewer.com is one I know of.

 --
 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Dean Posekany

On 2/8/2015 1:11 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

 I'm wondering why they are failing on you?
 Do you have the drives heat sinked?The back of the drives are smooth
 aluminum and are designed to be
 heatsinked to a backplane or the heatsink that Parker sold (use heat
 sink compound).

Hi Dave:
Yea, I have the drives heat sinked to a 1/4 alum backplane with 
compound and have the backplane  fan-cooled.  I've never noticed the 
backplane even being warm to the touch.

As far as whywell this last one was partly my fault.  But I'm 
surprised that the Parker didn't have some built in protection.

I had just built and was testing a new Linuxcnc box based on an oldHP 
Compaq DC7600 Pentium 4. Along with the new build I added code to do the 
touch-off plate. Well, being careless while I was testing, I ended 
driving the Y-axis to its neg stop.  Once I unstuck the axis, the drive 
was toast and just sat there and vibrated the axis.  DUMB!

The other failure was about two years ago and it just didn't wake up 
when I started the machine that day.

 If you break the drive to motor electrical connection while the motors
 are energized that will oftentimes kill the stepper drive.
 I would not pay $280 to have those drives repaired.   Jon is right, the
 Geckos offer similar performance for less.
 The Parker drives show up on Ebay periodically for reasonable and
 unreasonable prices.

 At one time Parker was selling these drives for about $750 each. But I
 think that Gecko and Leadshine has been tough competition for Parker.

 I've used the Gecko 203V drives myself and have used them on industrial
 machines.   But the Geckos need to be heatsinked as well.

 You can run with mixed Parker/Gecko drives on your machine.   The
 machine won't care.   I use the same timing parameters for the Geckos as
 I do the Parker 750's.

 Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Gregg Eshelman
On 2/8/2015 12:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

 If you have an oscilloscope, bad/old caps will be obvious because of the 20
 volt or more noise spikes from the motor drivers at the supply outputs.

I'd open them up and have a look at the capacitors for bulging and leaking.

1997 is in the capacitor plague years when a huge load of counterfeit 
electrolytic capacitors were on the market and just about every company 
making electronics stuff ended up with some.

Best case is the capacitors can all be replaced and the motor driver, 
computer, stereo etc will be back in working order.

Worst case is the capacitors going off caused improper voltage or 
current to flow here and there, frying other parts. Or some times the 
capacitors would short (frying other parts) or even explode.

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Re: [Emc-users] What Would You Do?

2015-02-08 Thread Bruce Layne
Hi Dean,

I've been using imported stepper motors and drivers (the type you find 
cheap on eBay) and have been very happy with them.  They have generally 
much more robust designs than the older high dollar industrial controls, 
and they're much smarter.  The new stepper motor controllers have 
microcontrollers with more complicated algorithms that not only 
implement some of the design robustness, but also other nice features 
such as the aforementioned quieter operation.  You might also see faster 
acceleration and/or faster max speed step generation without missing steps.

Whether using servos or stepper motors, a good case can usually be made 
for buying an old machine, stripping 15+ year old CNC electronics and 
installing new electronics.  Add LinuxCNC and it's an easy way to 
upgrade a good old machine (good iron) to be much better than it was 
when new.  Upgrading electronics is an obvious choice when the old 
electronics have already failed and are prohibitively expensive to 
replace, but I think it's a worthwhile investment in longterm 
reliability even if the old electronics are still working... for now.

If you want to be proactive on the remaining Parker drives, sight 
unseen, I'd generally recommend opening them up, cleaning the printed 
circuit boards, and replacing the electrolytic capacitors. Those are the 
components most susceptible to age related failure. If you want to 
attempt an inexpensive rebuild of your old Parker drives without being 
an electrical engineer, I'd replace all of the electrolytic capacitors 
and then replace any semiconductors that are charred.  :-)  Typical 
damage occurs to large power transistors near the outputs.  From my 
experience, that's the repair technique often used by the aging CNC 
repair specialty shops.

Good luck,

Bruce



On 02/08/2015 11:40 AM, Dean Posekany wrote:
 A little background :

 About six years ago, as I was just starting to design my shop-built
 gantry machine, I came across a SUPER deal on Ebay for six sets of drive
 components. Each set included a line filter, Parker OEM300 75V, 7.5A
 power supply, Parker OEM750 stepper driver and a stepper motor. I didn't
 know a whole lot about this stuff a the time, but I knew it was a deal I
 couldn't pass up. So, they became the drive system for my CNC build. As
 it turned out, only five of the six drivers worked. Thas wasn't a
 problem (especially for what I'd paid for them) because my gantry is
 only (at least for now) a 3-axis machine. But, six years later I've lost
 two additional OEM750's and I'm now running on my last three. Another
 failure and I'm down and its decision time.

 Here's my question for the worldly experience of the group. I'm retired
 and this is a serious hobby machine and I don't have a great deal of
 money that I can throw that this. So when the inevitable failure of the
 next stepper driver occurs, what would you do? Repair the OEM750
 (~$280)? Or would you look at replacing the Parker hardware with
 something else like Gecko or maybe go the Mesa route? I've really been
 pleased with the stepper performance I get from the Parkers and the
 software stepper generation that Linuxcnc gives me is more than fast
 enough for the work I do. The repair is expensive and the drives were
 released in 1997. So they're 18 years old. I just don't have enough real
 world experience with this stuff to feel like I can make a good decision.

 If it was your problem, what direction would you go?

 Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 Dean

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Re: [Emc-users] $64 question

2015-02-08 Thread Lawrence Glaister


On 15-02-05 07:31 AM, bhri...@bresnan.net wrote:


 Hi Lawrence:
 Am wanting to build ur servo project but have had no luck compiling
 it.  is any of the files on ur site of that project already complied
 so that i could just load onto the pic. with mp pickit 2?Thanks Bill
 WA0WWN
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Hi,
I noticed the zip file with the project also has the .hex file to 
program the pic have a look in

http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/dspic-servo-29jan2008.zip

  havent played with the pic stuff for a couple of years... I havent 
tried the version 10X development environment or whatever the latest is.
If you send me your compile time errors, I might be able to figure it 
out... I have run into a few definition changes when changing 
development versions, See the Notes section on
http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/dspic-servo.html

cheers
Lawrence

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