Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Kirk Wallace]

On 12/22/18 5:02 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 12/22/2018 05:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
The only thing I could not find with any search terms was a 1/2 to 1 
gallon water tank to bury the water pump in.
There are things called "condensate drain pumps" that you put near a 


In case it hasn't been mentioned, ShurFlo makes RV water pumps which 
have higher operating pressure. I don't know what coolant would do to 
the diaphragm, but there are options for the diaphragm material. 
Inexpensive AC or DC units can be found on eBay if you wait for a good deal.



https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=shurflo
https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/c-77-shurflo-pumps.aspx


I have a few of these for my drinking water system and water tank. The 
pressure switch does work but is of a poor design and material. Instead, 
I use Square D Pumptrol switches:



https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=pumptrol


Beware of the models that have the "pump saver" lever feature. A float 
switch might be better for pump saving.


I also avoid using tapered pipe fittings when I can. NPT fittings tend 
to cross thread on these pump housings even on a good day, and they 
don't seal well at all. Teflon pipe tape is useless, so I use Rectorseal 
yellow (let dry before mating, seems better). The matching Shurflo 
fittings (look like reverse AN flare fitting) seal well, are easy to 
use/reuse and service.


Just in my humble opinion.

--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 21:39:07 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> and you can get all the parts for Little Giant Pumps.
> ( rotors, seals, brushes, motors.)
> That makes any investment easier to swallow.
> tomp tjtr33
> Merry Merry! Happy Happy!
>
Hey Tomp, been too quiet out your way, hope you and the missus are well.

And you're right about Little Giant, they aren't going away tomorrow. So 
when the pump it comes with upchucks, "you never get fired for buying 
IBM." :)

Merry Christmas to you folks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 21:03:34 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/23/2018 03:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > The way I'm reading it Jon,starting at page184 in ht mater dov pll ;
> > and the max estimated correction being less than 50 thou, g92
> > corrects all maps, where as the G1 L2 P# only effects a single map
> > at a time. Am I mistaken? This is master, not a 2.7.xx.
>
> I think G54/G92 behavior has not changed in decades.  I
> don't know what max estimated correction refers to. 

Thats G52/G92.
Thats the amount of correction it  might take for my find it code to 
adjust the panel length enough, carrying the right hand 5 pack of holes 
with it, so the fit is perfect for all 7 holes on that half of the 
panel.

Right now that is a tape measured SWAG.

> I just 
> use G10 L2 to offset the X-Y origin of a part that has many
> identical features to be machined.
>
That what I'm doing here too, but I could really use a 12" digital 
caliper as the right hand offset is about 9" from the left rear end of 
the panel. Give or take 50 thou. And I just found one I can afford, with 
a case, maybe it can slide off something and survive. The last 8"er from 
grizzly came caseless and slid off the g0704 chip tray landing on the 
display's glass, which destroyed it.

So I've got that and 2 packs of the stickon lcd thermometers coming. The 
kit is slowly being assembled.

The mill is supposed to be here around the 4th. But at 55+ kg, how is one 
man going to unload it?  Thats well above what UPS allows their drivers 
to lay a hand on. 70 lb limit the last I heard. So they'll have to send 
out a power tailgate box van.

I'll have to have my heavier two wheeler handy and I may have fun moving 
it myself. I'm nowhere near the man I was 60 years ago. Damnit... The 
heavier 2 wheeler I can back up with the rider and drop a pipe over the 
1.75" ball on the rider. That will get it around the lower end of the 
house and back up the hill to near the steps up to the shops deck at the 
upper end of the back yard, and in the carton I can probably walk it end 
over end up the 2 steps up to the deck. Throw a tarp over it if the 
weathers wet. But I'll need an engine crane or something to get it into 
the shop. Fun? Not with my back. But generally I can deal with 
everything but bad weather. I just have to "cogitate" on it. I've a boat 
trailer winch that can do that lifting I think. Just have to survey and 
see where to anchor it. :) Newtons 3rd law and all that rot.

> Jon
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[TJoseph Powderly]

and you can get all the parts for Little Giant Pumps.
( rotors, seals, brushes, motors.)
That makes any investment easier to swallow.
tomp tjtr33
Merry Merry! Happy Happy!

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 1:28 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 23 December 2018 09:10:50 Bruce Layne wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 at 23:50, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > The only thing I could not find with any
> > > search terms was a 1/2 to 1 gallon water tank to bury the water pump
> > > in.
> >
> > I have a Chinese water cooled spindle on two different home built CNC
> > routers.  I used a 5 gallon plastic bucket for the coolant tank on
> > each.  They were free with a cat litter purchase.  The plastic snap on
> > top is hinged.  The back 1/3 stays snapped in place and the front 2/3
> > can be hinged open in case I ever need to dump the coolant, add to it,
> > etc.  The lid keeps dust and debris out of the closed loop coolant
> > system.  A small pump is submerged in the coolant and the power cord
> > for the pump and the coolant inlet and outlet hoses are routed through
> > the back third of the lid that remains snapped onto the top of the
> > bucket.
> >
> > You don't need a big pump regardless of the size of the spindle
> > motor.  I use a small Little Giant pump that's often sold for
> > fountains, hydroponics, etc.  I get the best version they make and
> > it's still inexpensive.  Good brands include Superior and the upper
> > end versions of Little Giant.  Here are a couple of possible examples.
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/362400850664
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/233055122922
> >
> > I like the magnetic drive submersible pumps for reliability.  I'd pay
> > a little more for a long power cord to get any electrical splices well
> > away from the coolant and a pipe thread outlet port so you can easily
> > find a fitting to connect to the weird metric sized very flexible hose
> > that connects to the spindle motor.
> >
> > These small pumps don't produce much head pressure (aka "lift").  On
> > the larger CNC router, I tried to hide the coolant pump under the
> > enclosure and route the coolant lines on top of the enclosure and then
> > down to the spindle motor.  That didn't work because the pump couldn't
> > push the coolant that high.  I tried a much larger pump trying to
> > power my way through the problem and the head pressure was marginal.
> > It barely worked, most of the time, but the pump is cooled by the
> > coolant and the coolant temperature rose quickly.  The coolant was
> > cooling the pump more than it was cooling the spindle. I finally gave
> > up, went back to the smaller pump, and put the coolant tank on top of
> > the CNC router's enclosure so it was pumping down to the spindle motor
> > and back up to the coolant tank.  The pump only needs enough head
> > pressure to clear the top of the coolant tank.  A possible down side
> > is that a coolant leak could siphon most of the coolant out of the
> > coolant tank, but I used good hose and it hasn't been a problem.  On
> > the small CNC router, I placed the coolant tank on a shelf behind the
> > CNC router, and it also pumps down to the spindle motor.
> >
> > I continue to be impressed with the Chinese water cooled spindle
> > motors.  The quality is very good.  They brag about the precision
> > "German" bearings and they are very smooth and have a very precise
> > feel, certainly much better than a Porter Cable or Bosch wood working
> > router, even though I suspect that "German" is the deliberately
> > deceptive name of a company or town in China.  Still, good is good.
> >
> Like comparing a Portor-Cable 692 to a Hitachi MV12, The Hitachi is about
> another 50 bucks, and worth every penny. Soft start, dead smooth at any
> speed. Too much gingerbread on its outer though.
>
> > Using four gallons of coolant allows the larger CNC router to run
> > pretty much indefinitely now that the garage shop is air conditioned.
> > When it was hot in the summer, the coolant would get a bit warm in the
> > summer after five hours of hard use of the spindle motor.
>
> Which is probably 4x longer than it would get run here. This panel with
> all the bells enabled is 66 minutes on the 5 to 10 ipm HF toy. With a
> faster spindle 30 minutes.
>
> > Less coolant means it will get hotter sooner.  More coolant is an
> > easier and cheaper solution than adding a radiator.
>
> And I have one or two of those buckets. The square ones I might be able
> find room for, behind the mill, but will probably have to make a
> table/cabinet for the whole thing as I'd think its too tall to fit under
> the operator console as it only clears the floor about 48". Somebody
> mention 55 kg but I've not been able to find the weight. With free
> shipping, ebay doesn't tell you. 55kg = 121lbs. I'd best put castors on
> the back and and levelors on it, the shop floor sags with nearly half a
> ton in the middle of the floor now. And its been there close to 20
> years. Only treated 4x4's on 24" ce

Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Jon Elson]

On 12/23/2018 03:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

The way I'm reading it Jon,starting at page184 in ht mater dov pll ; and
the max estimated correction being less than 50 thou, g92 corrects all
maps, where as the G1 L2 P# only effects a single map at a time. Am I
mistaken? This is master, not a 2.7.xx.
  

I think G54/G92 behavior has not changed in decades.  I 
don't know what max estimated correction refers to.  I just 
use G10 L2 to offset the X-Y origin of a part that has many 
identical features to be machined.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Jon Elson]

On 12/23/2018 03:16 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 23 December 2018 16:00:01 Jon Elson wrote:


On 12/23/2018 01:26 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I sort of like that, 23 ft of head would let me put the tank below
the machine, but it appears the motor may not be cooled by the
coolant, does that have any effect on its life? And its 9" tall.
But that would let me mount it below the machine and toward the
front of the cabinet, making an lcd thermometer stuck to it more
easily seen.

On this sort of pump, the motor is AIR cooled, but you have
to keep water from splashing on the motor.
There are no shaft seals,

Ouch

the vertical motor shaft just
passes through the top of the pump housing, and the water
enters from the bottom.


Stable mount required then. Can that pump be dissed so that it could be
stuck thru the lid of the container & reassembled?


May not have to do that.  See last picture here :
http://pico-systems.com/CNCconv.html
It is hard to tell, but there's a clear Plexi cover with a 
hole it it for the pump motor to stick out through.
The pump can be disassembled, I do it for cleaning every 
once in a while.


Jon




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Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 16:08:08 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/23/2018 01:41 PM, Marcus Bowman wrote:
> > G92.1 cancels all G92 offsets, so that always goes in the
> > initialisation block in all my programs. If I am cutting rows of
> > holes, with simple or complex outlines, I always go the the hole
> > position, then use a subroutine to cut the hole. The subroutine
> > always begins with G92 and always ends with G92.1
>
> First, you have to understand that HOME is different from
> workpiece OFFSET.
> G10 L2 or G92 sets a workpiece offset, and can set it in one
> of 9 coordinate systems (G54 through G59.3).  Touch off in
> the Axis GUI also does this.
>
The way I'm reading it Jon,starting at page184 in ht mater dov pll ; and 
the max estimated correction being less than 50 thou, g92 corrects all 
maps, where as the G1 L2 P# only effects a single map at a time. Am I 
mistaken? This is master, not a 2.7.xx.
 
> HOME is to set the limits of travel of the machine, and is
> very useful as it will detect placement of workpieces that
> exceed this travel BEFORE starting the program.  Saves a LOT
> of wasted time and materials.  It also allows you to run the
> same part day after day, once the fixture has been set up
> once.
>
> Jon

Thanks Jon.

>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 16:00:01 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/23/2018 01:26 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I sort of like that, 23 ft of head would let me put the tank below
> > the machine, but it appears the motor may not be cooled by the
> > coolant, does that have any effect on its life? And its 9" tall. 
> > But that would let me mount it below the machine and toward the
> > front of the cabinet, making an lcd thermometer stuck to it more
> > easily seen.
>
> On this sort of pump, the motor is AIR cooled, but you have
> to keep water from splashing on the motor.
> There are no shaft seals,
Ouch
> the vertical motor shaft just 
> passes through the top of the pump housing, and the water
> enters from the bottom.
>
Stable mount required then. Can that pump be dissed so that it could be 
stuck thru the lid of the container & reassembled?
> Jon
>
Thanks Jon.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Jon Elson]

On 12/23/2018 01:41 PM, Marcus Bowman wrote:

G92.1 cancels all G92 offsets, so that always goes in the initialisation block 
in all my programs.
If I am cutting rows of holes, with simple or complex outlines, I always go the 
the hole position, then use a subroutine to cut the hole. The subroutine always 
begins with G92 and always ends with G92.1

First, you have to understand that HOME is different from 
workpiece OFFSET.
G10 L2 or G92 sets a workpiece offset, and can set it in one 
of 9 coordinate systems (G54 through G59.3).  Touch off in 
the Axis GUI also does this.


HOME is to set the limits of travel of the machine, and is 
very useful as it will detect placement of workpieces that 
exceed this travel BEFORE starting the program.  Saves a LOT 
of wasted time and materials.  It also allows you to run the 
same part day after day, once the fixture has been set up

once.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 14:41:49 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> I' m not entirely sure I have the correct picture of what you are
> trying to do, but I have cut lots of panels covered in holes for
> D-subs and audio connectors (for sound studios) and a series of mould
> plates for plastic moulding which consist of rows of identical
> recesses. G92.1 cancels all G92 offsets, so that always goes in the
> initialisation block in all my programs. If I am cutting rows of
> holes, with simple or complex outlines, I always go the the hole
> position, then use a subroutine to cut the hole. The subroutine always
> begins with G92 and always ends with G92.1 That is, I think, a
> slightly different application from your own, but the documentation
> here
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems#G52_coordin
>ate_offset_not_yet_implemented states that G52 is not yet implemented.

Huh?  My docs say it is. See 5.1.4 at the top og page 184. (master of 
course)
> I've used it in Mach3, and it works fine there, so its a pity it is
> not yet available in LinuxCNC (if the documentation is correct).
> However; you could reset HOME for, say, G54, by writing to systems
> parameters 5221-5230, to give the same effect. I would be inclined to
> read 5221-5230 into other parameters; then change their values to a
> new HOME position, then restore the original values from your own
> parameters.
>
I've done that for other params, so obviously there's more than one way 
to separate cat from skin. :)

> But perhaps I am simplifying (or complicating) something which is more
> complex than I have understood.

No I think we are on the same page, or quite close.

Thanks Marcus. Its a pita having both milling machines laid up, and I'm 
having to buy another just to fix the first blowup right, while adding 
more I/O it needs. I keep hanging more gingerbread on it. Then a $3 buck 
regulator up chucked and put 35 volts on a bob, cooking it, black epoxy 
bits all over. So this is the back panel of a new box with 11 round 
holes and 2 dsub-25's in it. But theres AC in (1), 4 motor outs (5), an 
encoder in(6), a gear shift tally in which may use its spare pins for 
the probe(7), soon to be independent home switch ins(plug-8) for the 3 
main axis's, and at some point a tool changer, which will have to 
sequence several things that will eat up the last 3 of those 5 pin 
GS16-5  connectors.

Then to make things interesting, this incoming 6040 gantry expects Mach3 
on the db25 end of the cable, so there may be a bit of hacking there. 
I'm passably good at that, as long as I've got the docs for everything.

Thanks Marcus. And Merry Christmas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Jon Elson]

On 12/23/2018 01:26 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I sort of like that, 23 ft of head would let me put the tank below the
machine, but it appears the motor may not be cooled by the coolant, does
that have any effect on its life? And its 9" tall.  But that would let
me mount it below the machine and toward the front of the cabinet,
making an lcd thermometer stuck to it more easily seen.


On this sort of pump, the motor is AIR cooled, but you have 
to keep water from splashing on the motor.
There are no shaft seals, the vertical motor shaft just 
passes through the top of the pump housing, and the water 
enters from the bottom.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Marcus Bowman]

I' m not entirely sure I have the correct picture of what you are trying to do, 
but I have cut lots of panels covered in holes for D-subs and audio connectors 
(for sound studios) and a series of mould plates for plastic moulding which 
consist of rows of identical recesses.
G92.1 cancels all G92 offsets, so that always goes in the initialisation block 
in all my programs.
If I am cutting rows of holes, with simple or complex outlines, I always go the 
the hole position, then use a subroutine to cut the hole. The subroutine always 
begins with G92 and always ends with G92.1
That is, I think, a slightly different application from your own, but the 
documentation here 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems#G52_coordinate_offset_not_yet_implemented
states that G52 is not yet implemented. I've used it in Mach3, and it works 
fine there, so its a pity it is not yet available in LinuxCNC (if the 
documentation is correct).
However; you could reset HOME for, say, G54, by writing to systems parameters 
5221-5230, to give the same effect.
I would be inclined to read 5221-5230 into other parameters; then change their 
values to a new HOME position, then restore the original values from your own 
parameters.

But perhaps I am simplifying (or complicating) something which is more complex 
than I have understood.

Marcus

 
On 23 Dec 2018, at 11:11, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all;
> 
> It will still be a while before I'm ready to cut this panel on the new 
> machine.
> 
> Can't sleep, and had the idea to use the existing holes to automaticly 
> establish both home, and the panels length.
> 
> I've measured the panels width, and established a center line for Y at 
> half that. 
> 
> The mounting holes are plus or minus 0.65625 from this center line Y. So 
> if I have to adjust the panel width, the other points follow as they 
> are .0.6000 from the bottom or top. Whats more of a SWAG is the 
> mounting hole offset from the ends of the panel, which ATM I've measured 
> at .3125" in from the ends
> 
> These mounting holes are also nominally a 4mm hole at the bottom of the 
> counter sink. In terms of a thru hole.
> 
> So it occurres to me to skip cutting the outline once a good fit has been 
> achieved.
> 
> Then I want to use a variation of my hole_finder routine to "find" the 
> lower left of one of these holes. Once that has been done, goto the 
> matching hole on the other end of the panel and "find" that hole, and 
> use that offset to reset #<_panel_len> a few thou, which I can then use 
> to reset the center line. All the rest of the hole locations except the 
> dsubs will follow along, thereby maintaining the precisely laid out 
> appearance of all the round hole spacings. All this so the last two 
> copies I cut can be done on the satin brushed finished OEM panel from 
> the box kit. Purtier that way than on the side panel of a wrecked ups 
> van complete with a decades worth of road salt etc on it.
> 
> Is this a place for the G52, to effectively rehome all maps after the 
> first hole is found. I see G92 can do the same thing but I'm not sure I 
> want it more or less permanent. I think it would be a safer assumption 
> if it died with the M2. However I see that G52 is current co-ordinate, 
> while G92 is all maps, which is what I want. Sooo, looks like its G92, 
> with cancelation stuff in the file preamble.
> 
> Are there any gotchas to the idea that I should be aware of?
> I've already put the disable_g92_persistence in the [rs274] section.
> 
> Thanks guys, have a joyous Christmas.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 13:34:16 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/23/2018 08:10 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> > You don't need a big pump regardless of the size of the
> > spindle motor.  I use a small Little Giant pump that's
> > often sold for fountains, hydroponics, etc.  I get the
> > best version they make and it's still inexpensive.  Good
> > brands include Superior and the upper end versions of
> > Little Giant.  Here are a couple of possible examples.
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/362400850664
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/233055122922
>
> There are also the blue Little Giant pumps that are not
> fully immersed.
> Here's a pic of one style.  You'd have to make sure it
> delivers enough pressure to keep the spindle cooled, but
> this is similar to what I have for flood coolant.
> https://www.zoro.com/little-giant-pump-coolant-plastic-cp1-115/i/G2388
>337/
>
I sort of like that, 23 ft of head would let me put the tank below the 
machine, but it appears the motor may not be cooled by the coolant, does 
that have any effect on its life? And its 9" tall.  But that would let 
me mount it below the machine and toward the front of the cabinet, 
making an lcd thermometer stuck to it more easily seen.

Food for thought Jon, thanks.

> Jon
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Jon Elson]

On 12/23/2018 08:10 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:




You don't need a big pump regardless of the size of the 
spindle motor.  I use a small Little Giant pump that's 
often sold for fountains, hydroponics, etc.  I get the 
best version they make and it's still inexpensive.  Good 
brands include Superior and the upper end versions of 
Little Giant.  Here are a couple of possible examples.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/362400850664

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233055122922

There are also the blue Little Giant pumps that are not 
fully immersed.
Here's a pic of one style.  You'd have to make sure it 
delivers enough pressure to keep the spindle cooled, but 
this is similar to what I have for flood coolant.

https://www.zoro.com/little-giant-pump-coolant-plastic-cp1-115/i/G2388337/

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 09:10:50 Bruce Layne wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 at 23:50, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > The only thing I could not find with any
> > search terms was a 1/2 to 1 gallon water tank to bury the water pump
> > in.
>
> I have a Chinese water cooled spindle on two different home built CNC
> routers.  I used a 5 gallon plastic bucket for the coolant tank on
> each.  They were free with a cat litter purchase.  The plastic snap on
> top is hinged.  The back 1/3 stays snapped in place and the front 2/3
> can be hinged open in case I ever need to dump the coolant, add to it,
> etc.  The lid keeps dust and debris out of the closed loop coolant
> system.  A small pump is submerged in the coolant and the power cord
> for the pump and the coolant inlet and outlet hoses are routed through
> the back third of the lid that remains snapped onto the top of the
> bucket.
>
> You don't need a big pump regardless of the size of the spindle
> motor.  I use a small Little Giant pump that's often sold for
> fountains, hydroponics, etc.  I get the best version they make and
> it's still inexpensive.  Good brands include Superior and the upper
> end versions of Little Giant.  Here are a couple of possible examples.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/362400850664
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/233055122922
>
> I like the magnetic drive submersible pumps for reliability.  I'd pay
> a little more for a long power cord to get any electrical splices well
> away from the coolant and a pipe thread outlet port so you can easily
> find a fitting to connect to the weird metric sized very flexible hose
> that connects to the spindle motor.
>
> These small pumps don't produce much head pressure (aka "lift").  On
> the larger CNC router, I tried to hide the coolant pump under the
> enclosure and route the coolant lines on top of the enclosure and then
> down to the spindle motor.  That didn't work because the pump couldn't
> push the coolant that high.  I tried a much larger pump trying to
> power my way through the problem and the head pressure was marginal. 
> It barely worked, most of the time, but the pump is cooled by the
> coolant and the coolant temperature rose quickly.  The coolant was
> cooling the pump more than it was cooling the spindle. I finally gave
> up, went back to the smaller pump, and put the coolant tank on top of
> the CNC router's enclosure so it was pumping down to the spindle motor
> and back up to the coolant tank.  The pump only needs enough head
> pressure to clear the top of the coolant tank.  A possible down side
> is that a coolant leak could siphon most of the coolant out of the
> coolant tank, but I used good hose and it hasn't been a problem.  On
> the small CNC router, I placed the coolant tank on a shelf behind the
> CNC router, and it also pumps down to the spindle motor.
>
> I continue to be impressed with the Chinese water cooled spindle
> motors.  The quality is very good.  They brag about the precision
> "German" bearings and they are very smooth and have a very precise
> feel, certainly much better than a Porter Cable or Bosch wood working
> router, even though I suspect that "German" is the deliberately
> deceptive name of a company or town in China.  Still, good is good.
>
Like comparing a Portor-Cable 692 to a Hitachi MV12, The Hitachi is about 
another 50 bucks, and worth every penny. Soft start, dead smooth at any 
speed. Too much gingerbread on its outer though.

> Using four gallons of coolant allows the larger CNC router to run
> pretty much indefinitely now that the garage shop is air conditioned. 
> When it was hot in the summer, the coolant would get a bit warm in the
> summer after five hours of hard use of the spindle motor.

Which is probably 4x longer than it would get run here. This panel with 
all the bells enabled is 66 minutes on the 5 to 10 ipm HF toy. With a 
faster spindle 30 minutes.

> Less coolant means it will get hotter sooner.  More coolant is an 
> easier and cheaper solution than adding a radiator.

And I have one or two of those buckets. The square ones I might be able 
find room for, behind the mill, but will probably have to make a 
table/cabinet for the whole thing as I'd think its too tall to fit under 
the operator console as it only clears the floor about 48". Somebody 
mention 55 kg but I've not been able to find the weight. With free 
shipping, ebay doesn't tell you. 55kg = 121lbs. I'd best put castors on 
the back and and levelors on it, the shop floor sags with nearly half a 
ton in the middle of the floor now. And its been there close to 20 
years. Only treated 4x4's on 24" centers, with 2 layers of 3/4" osb for 
a topping. Been tempted to build a better one, but theres not enough of 
me left to get it done. I'd start with a much better foundation, filled 
with foam and 18" sq pads for support posts down the middle, and maybe 
another 4' each way. Structural Foam panels for walls and roofing. Maybe 
then I could heat and cool it. That 14x24 gara

Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Bruce Layne]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 at 23:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:


The only thing I could not find with any
search terms was a 1/2 to 1 gallon water tank to bury the water pump in.


I have a Chinese water cooled spindle on two different home built CNC 
routers.  I used a 5 gallon plastic bucket for the coolant tank on 
each.  They were free with a cat litter purchase.  The plastic snap on 
top is hinged.  The back 1/3 stays snapped in place and the front 2/3 
can be hinged open in case I ever need to dump the coolant, add to it, 
etc.  The lid keeps dust and debris out of the closed loop coolant 
system.  A small pump is submerged in the coolant and the power cord for 
the pump and the coolant inlet and outlet hoses are routed through the 
back third of the lid that remains snapped onto the top of the bucket.


You don't need a big pump regardless of the size of the spindle motor.  
I use a small Little Giant pump that's often sold for fountains, 
hydroponics, etc.  I get the best version they make and it's still 
inexpensive.  Good brands include Superior and the upper end versions of 
Little Giant.  Here are a couple of possible examples.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/362400850664

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233055122922

I like the magnetic drive submersible pumps for reliability.  I'd pay a 
little more for a long power cord to get any electrical splices well 
away from the coolant and a pipe thread outlet port so you can easily 
find a fitting to connect to the weird metric sized very flexible hose 
that connects to the spindle motor.


These small pumps don't produce much head pressure (aka "lift").  On the 
larger CNC router, I tried to hide the coolant pump under the enclosure 
and route the coolant lines on top of the enclosure and then down to the 
spindle motor.  That didn't work because the pump couldn't push the 
coolant that high.  I tried a much larger pump trying to power my way 
through the problem and the head pressure was marginal.  It barely 
worked, most of the time, but the pump is cooled by the coolant and the 
coolant temperature rose quickly.  The coolant was cooling the pump more 
than it was cooling the spindle. I finally gave up, went back to the 
smaller pump, and put the coolant tank on top of the CNC router's 
enclosure so it was pumping down to the spindle motor and back up to the 
coolant tank.  The pump only needs enough head pressure to clear the top 
of the coolant tank.  A possible down side is that a coolant leak could 
siphon most of the coolant out of the coolant tank, but I used good hose 
and it hasn't been a problem.  On the small CNC router, I placed the 
coolant tank on a shelf behind the CNC router, and it also pumps down to 
the spindle motor.


I continue to be impressed with the Chinese water cooled spindle 
motors.  The quality is very good.  They brag about the precision 
"German" bearings and they are very smooth and have a very precise feel, 
certainly much better than a Porter Cable or Bosch wood working router, 
even though I suspect that "German" is the deliberately deceptive name 
of a company or town in China.  Still, good is good.


Using four gallons of coolant allows the larger CNC router to run pretty 
much indefinitely now that the garage shop is air conditioned.  When it 
was hot in the summer, the coolant would get a bit warm in the summer 
after five hours of hard use of the spindle motor.  Less coolant means 
it will get hotter sooner.  More coolant is an easier and cheaper 
solution than adding a radiator.


I use the pink RV safe antifreeze as the coolant.  I don't think it will 
corrode metals as readily as water and it won't freeze in your unheated 
shop.  Unlike some automotive coolant, this is used full strength.


I buy liquid LCD thermometer strips on eBay and I'll wrap one around the 
spindle motor and I'll stick another in the electrical panel so I can 
see the temperature at a glance.  These are passive thermometers with no 
electronics.  They're sold for use in pet terrariums for lizards.  
Direct reading with no batteries to replace.  Be sure to get one that 
goes as high as 40C or 104F.  The selection isn't as good as I remember.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/253864383162

I wanted to measure the spindle motor temperature rather than the 
coolant temperature to catch a fault where the pump stops pumping. I 
still need to install a thermal switch on the spindle motor to E-stop 
the CNC router if the spindle motor starts to overheat.  I wired the 
gantry for the thermal switch but never installed it... or I installed 
the switch but never wired it into the E-stop circuit. These projects 
all blur together in my old brain.






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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 December 2018 05:32:02 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 at 23:50, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > The only thing I could not find with any
> > search terms was a 1/2 to 1 gallon water tank to bury the water pump
> > in.
>
> The only water-cooled installation I have seen used something that
> seemed to be similar to a CPU cooler setup:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWldfNLdKw

That would likely work, but I had, since the motor needs the mass more 
than the instant cooling, and I have seen some of those machines without 
the radiator but with a gallon or so plastic tank the pump is submerged 
in, so I had visions of drawer holding enough water to submerge the pump 
fully,  gallon or so. It would really have to be working hard and steady 
for a couple hours to get it good and hot.  I've an aircooled 1 HP, and 
I've left it running on the table at 24k revs for half an hour or more , 
virtually no heat and all I can hear is the swish of its air. Dead 
smooth, well built motor, came with the vfd thats now on the Sheldon, 
but never found the round tuit to do something with it. Too big and 
heavy to fit well on the side of the G0704. The collet may not be an 
ER-11 either, haven't looked recently enough to recall. 

But any plastic drawer is going to need to be pretty rigid stuff, water 
gets heavy after a while.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] Fiddling with home in gcode

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

It will still be a while before I'm ready to cut this panel on the new 
machine.

Can't sleep, and had the idea to use the existing holes to automaticly 
establish both home, and the panels length.

I've measured the panels width, and established a center line for Y at 
half that. 

The mounting holes are plus or minus 0.65625 from this center line Y. So 
if I have to adjust the panel width, the other points follow as they 
are .0.6000 from the bottom or top. Whats more of a SWAG is the 
mounting hole offset from the ends of the panel, which ATM I've measured 
at .3125" in from the ends

These mounting holes are also nominally a 4mm hole at the bottom of the 
counter sink. In terms of a thru hole.

So it occurres to me to skip cutting the outline once a good fit has been 
achieved.

Then I want to use a variation of my hole_finder routine to "find" the 
lower left of one of these holes. Once that has been done, goto the 
matching hole on the other end of the panel and "find" that hole, and 
use that offset to reset #<_panel_len> a few thou, which I can then use 
to reset the center line. All the rest of the hole locations except the 
dsubs will follow along, thereby maintaining the precisely laid out 
appearance of all the round hole spacings. All this so the last two 
copies I cut can be done on the satin brushed finished OEM panel from 
the box kit. Purtier that way than on the side panel of a wrecked ups 
van complete with a decades worth of road salt etc on it.

Is this a place for the G52, to effectively rehome all maps after the 
first hole is found. I see G92 can do the same thing but I'm not sure I 
want it more or less permanent. I think it would be a safer assumption 
if it died with the M2. However I see that G52 is current co-ordinate, 
while G92 is all maps, which is what I want. Sooo, looks like its G92, 
with cancelation stuff in the file preamble.

Are there any gotchas to the idea that I should be aware of?
I've already put the disable_g92_persistence in the [rs274] section.

Thanks guys, have a joyous Christmas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] sim still broken

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 at 23:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> The only thing I could not find with any
> search terms was a 1/2 to 1 gallon water tank to bury the water pump in.

The only water-cooled installation I have seen used something that
seemed to be similar to a CPU cooler setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWldfNLdKw

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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