Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2020-01-21 at 12:39 -0800, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> On 2020-01-21 11:31, bari wrote:
> > On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> >> That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
> >> was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
> >> X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
> >> you want.
> >>
> >> I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
> >> from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
> >> would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.
> >>
> >> - headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
> >> needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
> >> - GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
> >> - API for special additions and future development
> > 
> > How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
> > (many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
> > material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
> > issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?
> 
> That's a matter of $$$. It's possible to handle such tasks already. In 
> case of LinuxCNC is not easy to provide remote support. Lets say LCNC 
> architecture with headless controller allows a VPN connection to API to 
> see or manage the machine remotely or collaborate with operator that's 
> not familiar with Linux. Some surgical robots already make this 
> possible. I bet that's way more critical RT system than a CNC machine 
> which ends up with broken router bit when "oops" happens.
> 
> > Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?
> 
> Well, future is here and I get very excited just reading about it:
> https://www.universal-robots.com/
> CNC machines are robots in a sense.
> 
> However, we should not forget how we made it to where we are. I do 
> support and participate in efforts to restore old computing equipment in 
> computer museum for future generations to admire. It's a lot of fun when 
> you meet people who programmed those machines when or before some of us 
> were in diapers ;-)
> 
> > 
> > What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?
> 
> I would like to see low cost solutions based on LCNC for hobby or small 
> business users so that they can do their work more productively and 
> perhaps grow to the point to be able to buy more advanced robotic systems.
> 
> It's my intention to put together a small CNC to be able to do more than 
> what I can do with not very accurate Grizzly lathe/mill combo. I don't 
> mind paying some $$ for components to put a simple CNC machine together. 
> If those components were built by members of this list we would all 
> benefit. Software and HW QA, feedback, and promotion elsewhere.
> 
> One possibility for motivating software developers would be to help them 
> buy industrial grade embedded computer/electronics set that they could 
> use for writing code and quick test. That could cover upgrade for long 
> list of existing machines or help you build new machines. This has been 
> done before by HW manufacturers that needed drivers for their products.
> 
> I see Mesa covers a range of components that could be used that way but 
> it's showing it's age and it's only a single source.
> 
> Other times such efforts end up as products, open software and hardware; 
> example: https://ardupilot.org/
> 
> Generic PC motherboards with multi-core CPUs, GBs of RAM, for CNC use 
> make no sense anymore.
> 
> Aluminum extrusions make it possible to make all kinds of machines that 
> don't exist yet. It's perfect material for people with small work space.
> 
> I spent a lot of hours researching this subject on the Internet or 
> talking to people at different trade shows but they all seem to sell 
> full expensive solutions with proprietary software. Nobody showed any 
> interest in LCNC.
> 
> I found interesting snap cnc-designer which needs some work but it's the 
> only CNC related piece of software in Linux containers space that I'm 
> aware of.
> 
> Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion 
> about flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, 
> brand names, etc.
> 
> Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)
> 


I still repeat, I can't find anything better than LinuxCNC to run my
CNCs, and maybe you are aware that it is already possible to do via
ethernet with a Mesa card http://www.mesanet.com/





___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

that is kind of what I am doing.  I am not running any CNC machines, I 
am just 'messing' with some stepper motors, drivers, io boards and some 
sensors


to see if i can make that contraption work. X-forwarding is easy, 
because you can see if things work as they are supposed to, and it's 
easier to take a


20ft serial cable to hook my test contraption up. I set up vnc, but it 
was complaining about permissions, X-forwarding worked almost "out of 
the box"


(was missing a few libraries/fonts).


Ron


On 1/21/20 5:12 PM, Rick Moscoloni wrote:

  i have run several machines through vncviewver server from realvnc, and
done debug several miles away. DO IT!
In the past I tried to evangelize many people into LINUXCNC, but the
windows virus does not cure easily.
Regards Rick

El mar., 21 ene. 2020 a las 19:34, Rafael Skodlar ()
escribió:


On 2020-01-21 13:08, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m

not 3 (transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)

Todd Zuercher

To make it through my DIY projects I had to install a conversion app to
handle fractions, F, and such on my PDA. Sad state of the Union.

... snip

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but

where I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus'
Chainflex cables.  But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with
long cable runs (3m or so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good
long-term flexibility is a must.

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the

extra cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count
cable ends is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher

...

I appreciate your pointer to what I was looking for. The cost seems to
be reasonable. Some encoders I've seen come with connectors that are not
too hard to connect to cables.

I don't mind soldering though. I've done it thousands of times when 50
or 100 pairs phone cables needed to be connected in cable racks for the
phone company for my intern job. Here in the US it's not done that way.
They must be afraid of burning their fingers ;-)

SMT components are now a challenge for me. My eyes have seen too many
small things and need magnification for small parts/print ;-)

Thanks to you guys there is hope for me to build something.

--
Rafael Skodlar


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rick Moscoloni]

 i have run several machines through vncviewver server from realvnc, and
done debug several miles away. DO IT!
In the past I tried to evangelize many people into LINUXCNC, but the
windows virus does not cure easily.
Regards Rick

El mar., 21 ene. 2020 a las 19:34, Rafael Skodlar ()
escribió:

> On 2020-01-21 13:08, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m
> not 3 (transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
>
> To make it through my DIY projects I had to install a conversion app to
> handle fractions, F, and such on my PDA. Sad state of the Union.
>
> ... snip
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Todd Zuercher
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc
> >
> > Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but
> where I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus'
> Chainflex cables.  But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with
> long cable runs (3m or so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good
> long-term flexibility is a must.
> >
> > PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the
> extra cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count
> cable ends is a pain in the...)
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> ...
>
> I appreciate your pointer to what I was looking for. The cost seems to
> be reasonable. Some encoders I've seen come with connectors that are not
> too hard to connect to cables.
>
> I don't mind soldering though. I've done it thousands of times when 50
> or 100 pairs phone cables needed to be connected in cable racks for the
> phone company for my intern job. Here in the US it's not done that way.
> They must be afraid of burning their fingers ;-)
>
> SMT components are now a challenge for me. My eyes have seen too many
> small things and need magnification for small parts/print ;-)
>
> Thanks to you guys there is hope for me to build something.
>
> --
> Rafael Skodlar
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

[Nathan Hartman]

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 4:09 PM bari  wrote:
>
> FreeRTOS sure is popular.  Have you compared it to other open source
> Posix standard real-time OS's such as NuttX and RTEMS?
>
> http://www.nuttx.org/

NuttX is now an Apache.org Podling:

https://nuttx.apache.org

This RTOS has been around for quite a few years. The latest release
(as of November 16, 2019), version 8.2, is the 133rd versioned release
of NuttX.

From the front page of the site: "NuttX is a real-time operating
system (RTOS) with an emphasis on standards compliance and small
footprint. Scalable from 8-bit to 32-bit microcontroller environments,
the primary governing standards in NuttX are Posix and ANSI standards.
Additional standard APIs from Unix and other common RTOS’s (such as
VxWorks) are adopted for functionality not available under these
standards, or for functionality that is not appropriate for
deeply-embedded environments (such as fork())."

Some other RTOSes out there are derived from NuttX.

Cheers,
Nathan


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 2020-01-21 13:08, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m not 3 
(transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)

Todd Zuercher


To make it through my DIY projects I had to install a conversion app to 
handle fractions, F, and such on my PDA. Sad state of the Union.


... snip

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but where 
I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus' Chainflex cables. 
 But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with long cable runs (3m or 
so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good long-term flexibility is a 
must.

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the extra 
cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count cable ends 
is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher

...

I appreciate your pointer to what I was looking for. The cost seems to 
be reasonable. Some encoders I've seen come with connectors that are not 
too hard to connect to cables.


I don't mind soldering though. I've done it thousands of times when 50 
or 100 pairs phone cables needed to be connected in cable racks for the 
phone company for my intern job. Here in the US it's not done that way. 
They must be afraid of burning their fingers ;-)


SMT components are now a challenge for me. My eyes have seen too many 
small things and need magnification for small parts/print ;-)


Thanks to you guys there is hope for me to build something.

--
Rafael Skodlar


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring

[N]

> > On 21 Jan 2020, at 18:30, Jon Elson  wrote:
> > 
> >  The black-red winding has huge inductance -- HALF a Henry!
> 
> It is a 3W 120V motor. It’s going to eat milliamperes.

Maybe not to few, I would expect low efficiency.


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Todd Zuercher]

Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m not 3 
(transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but where 
I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus' Chainflex cables. 
 But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with long cable runs (3m or 
so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good long-term flexibility is a 
must.  

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the extra 
cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count cable ends 
is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Rafael Skodlar  
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:39 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion about 
flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, brand names, etc.

Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)

--
Rafael Skodlar


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Todd Zuercher]

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but where 
I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus' Chainflex cables. 
 But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with long cable runs (3m or 
so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good long-term flexibility is a 
must.  

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the extra 
cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count cable ends 
is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Rafael Skodlar  
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:39 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion about 
flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, brand names, etc.

Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)

--
Rafael Skodlar


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Real-time OS for machine controllers

[bari]

FreeRTOS sure is popular.  Have you compared it to other open source
Posix standard real-time OS's such as NuttX and RTEMS?

http://www.nuttx.org/

http://rtems.com/

Any thoughts? I haven't worked with any real-time OS's much since the
80-90's.


On 1/21/20 2:22 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Doing a fresh start in 2020, I'd pick a 32-bit microcontroller platform and
> then a "hard" real-time OS that is portable over a wide rand of 32-bit
> microcontrollers.   FreeRTOS would be a example of this.  See
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeRTOS
> These OSes are nothing at all like Linux.  They have no user interface and
> are linked with the application.



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 2020-01-21 11:31, bari wrote:

On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
you want.

I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.

- headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
- GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
- API for special additions and future development


How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
(many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?


That's a matter of $$$. It's possible to handle such tasks already. In 
case of LinuxCNC is not easy to provide remote support. Lets say LCNC 
architecture with headless controller allows a VPN connection to API to 
see or manage the machine remotely or collaborate with operator that's 
not familiar with Linux. Some surgical robots already make this 
possible. I bet that's way more critical RT system than a CNC machine 
which ends up with broken router bit when "oops" happens.



Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?


Well, future is here and I get very excited just reading about it:
https://www.universal-robots.com/
CNC machines are robots in a sense.

However, we should not forget how we made it to where we are. I do 
support and participate in efforts to restore old computing equipment in 
computer museum for future generations to admire. It's a lot of fun when 
you meet people who programmed those machines when or before some of us 
were in diapers ;-)




What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?


I would like to see low cost solutions based on LCNC for hobby or small 
business users so that they can do their work more productively and 
perhaps grow to the point to be able to buy more advanced robotic systems.


It's my intention to put together a small CNC to be able to do more than 
what I can do with not very accurate Grizzly lathe/mill combo. I don't 
mind paying some $$ for components to put a simple CNC machine together. 
If those components were built by members of this list we would all 
benefit. Software and HW QA, feedback, and promotion elsewhere.


One possibility for motivating software developers would be to help them 
buy industrial grade embedded computer/electronics set that they could 
use for writing code and quick test. That could cover upgrade for long 
list of existing machines or help you build new machines. This has been 
done before by HW manufacturers that needed drivers for their products.


I see Mesa covers a range of components that could be used that way but 
it's showing it's age and it's only a single source.


Other times such efforts end up as products, open software and hardware; 
example: https://ardupilot.org/


Generic PC motherboards with multi-core CPUs, GBs of RAM, for CNC use 
make no sense anymore.


Aluminum extrusions make it possible to make all kinds of machines that 
don't exist yet. It's perfect material for people with small work space.


I spent a lot of hours researching this subject on the Internet or 
talking to people at different trade shows but they all seem to sell 
full expensive solutions with proprietary software. Nobody showed any 
interest in LCNC.


I found interesting snap cnc-designer which needs some work but it's the 
only CNC related piece of software in Linux containers space that I'm 
aware of.


Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion 
about flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, 
brand names, etc.


Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)

--
Rafael Skodlar


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring

[Andy Pugh]

> On 21 Jan 2020, at 18:30, Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
>  The black-red winding has huge inductance -- HALF a Henry!

It is a 3W 120V motor. It’s going to eat milliamperes. 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,  Criticism is good.   I am most critical of my own work, the only why
to not get stuck and improve.

Linus CNC is basically a 1980's software design.   It has some rather huge
faults.  The real problem is that no one was time to do a full-up rewrite.

Back in the 1980's computers were expensive and microcontrollers were
way-primitive and slow and not really cheap either.  Back them a standard
PC was the best hardware platform for a CNC controller.   Today using a PC
running a real-time Linux is about the worst platform.

Doing a fresh start in 2020, I'd pick a 32-bit microcontroller platform and
then a "hard" real-time OS that is portable over a wide rand of 32-bit
microcontrollers.   FreeRTOS would be a example of this.  See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeRTOS
These OSes are nothing at all like Linux.  They have no user interface and
are linked with the application.

Al of the real-time functions for the CNC controller would go into the
microcontroller.  There are about 100 cheap hardware borads thit it could
run on.   Ths is an example: .../stm32-nucleo-boards/nucleo-f446ze.html

These cost about $20 and have a "boat load" of pins all on 0.1"
connectors.  These must be 100 of these boards on the market.

Then the non-real-time part runs on any kind of computer, Mac, Windows,
Linux and allows you to run multiple 32-bit real-time controllers if you
want to do something crazy like a 12-axis machine.

Finally, there is a user interface with graphics.   It should run on
anything, like a PC or Mac or a tablet and there cold be several of these.
Perhaps a touch screen tablet on the milling machine and a second larger
screen with a keyboard and mouse.It might be web-based.

In summary,  We have a single background process that runs as a normal
user-level app.   I'd write it in maybe Python.  It would run in the
background on any kind of computer and would the central "hub" of the CNC
system.   It is what reads the g-code files.Ten there are one or more
hardware boards that run a "hard" real-time OS on 32-bit microcontrollers.
  Each board can run 3 or 4 axis.  Most users would need only one board but
I don't see why there should be a limit.   Thes connect via an IP network,
likely for most users Ethernet but could be anything.   The central hub
process also talks to any number of user interface processes, also over an
IP network.

The interface from PC app to the controller boards is simple.   the boards
have a queue of "target states"  this a time, location, velocity and
acceleration.   The board keeps a buffer of these.  Because each state is
timestamped multiple boards can work together.

But how has time to re-do this?   LinuxCNC has many problems but it is the
best free CNC system out there and it is 100% usable for most purposes.

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 3:05 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 20 January 2020 00:42:17 Rafael Skodlar wrote:
>
> > On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
> > > well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a
> > > permanent setup
> > >
> > > So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
> > >
> > >
> > > Ron
> >
> > Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting
> > saddle on a caw.
> >
> > Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production
> > environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless
> > hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including
> > LinuxCNC with their products. Most small to medium size CNC machines
> > in built or kit forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the
> > subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product because it's
> > only available on crippled OS.
> >
> > After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of
> > misunderstanding about using Linux in small business environments. I
> > hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with
> > new or DIY CNC machines. When I tried to get small business owners or
> > others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are
> > impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other electronics HW
> > are needed, who's supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
> >
> > I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list.
> > Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main
> > purpose.
> >
> > Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are
> > just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in
> > their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to
> > EU I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
> >
> > LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial
> > use and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the
> > requirements advertised anywhere.
> >
> > If things were 

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[bari]

On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
> was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
> X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
> you want.
>
> I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
> from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
> would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.
>
> - headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
> needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
> - GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
> - API for special additions and future development

How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
(many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?

Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?

What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] homing

[Les Newell]

On 21/01/2020 16:33, Jon Elson wrote:
The big advantage of consistent homing is that the limits of machine 
travel can be entered in the .ini file.
Then, when you load a file, it IMMEDIATELY informs you if the program 
will exceed any travel limit.
It is ENORMOUSLY helpful when making parts that are near the limits of 
the machine to be warned before

the spindle even starts that you need to reposition the work.



The code that works out this warning is often wrong, especially if you 
use offsets or probing. I find the warning more of a hindrance than a help.


However having soft limits is very useful and I don't like running 
machines without them. You know when you run code that if you get 
something wrong the machine won't hit it's hard limits. It's also nice 
when jogging to home. You can just hold the jog buttons until the 
machine stops. On smaller stepper machines you can also do away with 
hard limit switches. My plasma for instance just has home switches and 
rubber buffers as end stops. Once homed you can't hit the end stops 
unless something has gone very wrong (e.g lost steps).


Les



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] homing

[Jon Elson]

On 01/21/2020 09:39 AM, dave engvall wrote:



Specifically, I use a cheap laser diode  and move 
manually  or jog to preposition the X and Y to a specific 
place. I mounted a tab on the right lower side of the 
table and adjust position so there is a small penumbra 
around a hole in the tab. Kick off homing and it finds the 
index and then proceeds to the predetermined offsets. 
Works a charm. For  Z I adjust manually to a given point 
and just kick it off.  It probably doesn't make much 
difference anyway since one always touches off to the top 
of the work. Just have to make certain I have enough 
distance between z max and work plane to back off. :-)


The big advantage of consistent homing is that the limits of 
machine travel can be entered in the .ini file.
Then, when you load a file, it IMMEDIATELY informs you if 
the program will exceed any travel limit.
It is ENORMOUSLY helpful when making parts that are near the 
limits of the machine to be warned before
the spindle even starts that you need to reposition the 
work.  If you don't touchoff to the workpiece
until after the program is loaded, then you get the warning 
when you hit run, still before the tool touches the
workpiece.  After I finally got around to getting my home 
switches mounted, I was kicking myself for

not having done it earlier!

Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring

[Jon Elson]

On 01/21/2020 07:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
As a first try, I'd put the 4mfd cap in series with the 
black-red coil, but I'd also bring it up with a powerstat 
in case I'm wrong. If it runs weak and hot, move the cap 
to the other winding. Which ever runs cooler and with more 
torque is correct.
Interesting!  Many of these small motors set up for 
permanent split capacitor are "symmetrical", ie both windings
have similar inductance and resistance.  This allows the 
simplest reversing scheme.  You tie two wires together to
neutral.  The capacitor goes between the two ends of the 
windings. A SPDT switch connects line to either end of the cap.


But, this motor clearly is NOT symmetrical!  The black-red 
winding has huge inductance -- HALF a Henry!
That is a reactance of 188 Ohms at 60 Hz, so the current at 
120 V would never exceed half an amp.
The Blue-Yellow is TWICE that.  These inductances seem way 
too big. But, maybe that is for inductance
protection of the motor at stall.  Possibly, this is a 
torque motor, intended to hold torque on a tape reel

or something like that, and not run at constant speed.

Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] homing

[dave engvall]

Hi all;

For once I'm writing to say thanks to the developers for making the 
homing sequence quite flexible. .


As I get older I tend to use the KISS principle more and more. I'm 
chasing Gene down the path: just 3 years younger and still kicking.


Specifically, I use a cheap laser diode  and move manually  or jog to 
preposition the X and Y to a specific place. I mounted a tab on the 
right lower side of the table and adjust position so there is a small 
penumbra around a hole in the tab. Kick off homing and it finds the 
index and then proceeds to the predetermined offsets. Works a charm. 
For  Z I adjust manually to a given point and just kick it off.  It 
probably doesn't make much difference anyway since one always touches 
off to the top of the work. Just have to make certain I have enough 
distance between z max and work plane to back off. :-)


Dave

ps. the diode spot is about .125" so low power density.



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 21 January 2020 08:08:58 grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Jan 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 January 2020 00:46:46 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >> You can see the yellow wire bound with the others in the first pic.
> >> I'm sure it's a coil wire.
> >> Usually the frame wire is bolted to the ... frame.
> >>
> >> You should measure the resistance of the two coils. They're quite
> >> different. I'm not sure what the rule of thumb is on which is the
> >> start winding, but it's out there.
> >>
> >> Roland
> >>
> >> On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 22:02, Peter Blodow  
wrote:
> >>> But this motor comes from Japan and, not knowing anything else,
> >>> might very well be designed for the European market.
> >>> Peter
> >>>
> >>> Am 20.01.2020 um 19:31 schrieb Dr. Andreas O. Lindner:
>  Hello, green-yellow is protected ground only in central Europe.
>  In US it
> >>>
> >>> is a bare wire !
> >>>
>  Just my 2 cents,
>  Andreas
> 
> > Am 20.01.2020 um 18:48 schrieb Peter Blodow :
> >
> > Isn't there something written on the green-yellow wire? In any
> > case:
> >>>
> >>> don't connect any power to this wire, its PROTECTIVE GROUND!
> >>>
> > Peter
> >
> > Am 20.01.2020 um 18:21 schrieb grumpy--- via Emc-users:
> >> thanks men
> >> got it
> >> neutral to black and blue
> >> one side of capacitor to red
> >> other side of capacitor to yellow
> >> connect line to red or yellow
> >
> > I think I've seen both ways.  Sometimes the raw power is the run
> > winding with the higher resistance and inductance, with the lower
> > resistance cap tuned winding actually taking more current because of
> > the resonance, and because of the cap, generates the magnetic phase
> > difference that makes it run. That is the first config I'd try, but
> > I'd also bring it up at half voltage from a powerstat to judge how
> > hot it runs. It likely will run in either config, but starting
> > torque will suffer and it will run hotter in the wrong config. Both
> > the winding R and the inductance are part of such a motors design.
> >
> > One would be on much firmer footing if your meter can measure
> > inductance, then the capacitor should be in series with the coil
> > having the least inductance as that would generate the maximum phase
> > difference.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> according to my handy little peak lcr40 meter
> blue to yellow is 1.130H and 459.6 ohms
> black to red is 507.1mH and 191.0 ohms

As a first try, I'd put the 4mfd cap in series with the black-red coil, 
but I'd also bring it up with a powerstat in case I'm wrong. If it runs 
weak and hot, move the cap to the other winding. Which ever runs cooler 
and with more torque is correct.
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring

[grumpy--- via Emc-users]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020, Gene Heskett wrote:


On Tuesday 21 January 2020 00:46:46 Roland Jollivet wrote:


You can see the yellow wire bound with the others in the first pic.
I'm sure it's a coil wire.
Usually the frame wire is bolted to the ... frame.

You should measure the resistance of the two coils. They're quite
different. I'm not sure what the rule of thumb is on which is the
start winding, but it's out there.

Roland

On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 22:02, Peter Blodow  wrote:

But this motor comes from Japan and, not knowing anything else,
might very well be designed for the European market.
Peter

Am 20.01.2020 um 19:31 schrieb Dr. Andreas O. Lindner:

Hello, green-yellow is protected ground only in central Europe. In
US it


is a bare wire !


Just my 2 cents,
Andreas


Am 20.01.2020 um 18:48 schrieb Peter Blodow :

Isn't there something written on the green-yellow wire? In any
case:


don't connect any power to this wire, its PROTECTIVE GROUND!


Peter

Am 20.01.2020 um 18:21 schrieb grumpy--- via Emc-users:

thanks men
got it
neutral to black and blue
one side of capacitor to red
other side of capacitor to yellow
connect line to red or yellow


I think I've seen both ways.  Sometimes the raw power is the run winding
with the higher resistance and inductance, with the lower resistance cap
tuned winding actually taking more current because of the resonance, and
because of the cap, generates the magnetic phase difference that makes
it run. That is the first config I'd try, but I'd also bring it up at
half voltage from a powerstat to judge how hot it runs. It likely will
run in either config, but starting torque will suffer and it will run
hotter in the wrong config. Both the winding R and the inductance are
part of such a motors design.

One would be on much firmer footing if your meter can measure inductance,
then the capacitor should be in series with the coil having the least
inductance as that would generate the maximum phase difference.

Cheers, Gene Heskett



according to my handy little peak lcr40 meter
blue to yellow is 1.130H and 459.6 ohms
black to red is 507.1mH and 191.0 ohms


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[John Dammeyer]

> >  What about API to Linux CNC?
> 
> There is a very lightweight (and limited one)
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/linuxcncrsh.1.html
> 
> atp

Thanks Andy,
This actually looks really useful.
John Dammeyer



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 07:58, Rafael Skodlar  wrote:

> that's precisely why I was hinting at need for growing up from "parallel
> port" days. Perhaps discuss how SATA, PCIe, M.2 technologies and related
> protocols could be taken advantage of.

LinuxCNC supports a number of PCIe interface cards. All my CNC
machines use them.

>  May I remind you that this is "Python3 year".

Though this is a fair point. Sadly switching LinuxCNC to Python 3 is a
lot less trivial than people assume.

> why push pixels to see what's going on a remote system with RT kernel
> when simple ASCII (JSON?) string can tell you all?

My understanding is that X-forwarding does not push pixels, but rather
window manager commands. This is why the look of the windows is
detrmined by the host PC rather than the remote.

>  What about API to Linux CNC?

There is a very lightweight (and limited one)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/linuxcncrsh.1.html

> Sorry guys, when a response to my email is a real time troll (not
> knowing how particular OS is crippled)

I don't think that the realtime patches to the Linux kernel "cripple"
it. I would argue that they "enhance" it.
Or have I misunderstood?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users