Re: [Emc-users] Output amplifier, DIN rail

[N]

> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:15, N  wrote:
> 
> > >
> > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zerone-Solid-State-Mounting-Screws/dp/B083BXCQFN
> >
> > A little bit stingy for this one right now, maybe also good for cooling
> > screwed in back plate.
> >
> > They are available for a fraction of that price if you can wait for the
> slow boat from China.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971006524.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1b034b8az60T9k
> Which is why I bought lots of them.
> 
> These also look like a very useful unit,
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32361079618.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5b3a2bf3mcvXyh
> 
> There are DA and DD variants for AC and DC, and that is the "P" for
> high-side control.
> Previously I have not been able to find the DD variant in P , partly
> because you mainly find underwear.

Sold some wood, plenty of it here and the money is needed for these. Guess this 
is they way international trade work.


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Re: [Emc-users] Output amplifier, DIN rail

[N]

> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:15, N  wrote:
> 
> > >
> > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zerone-Solid-State-Mounting-Screws/dp/B083BXCQFN
> >
> > A little bit stingy for this one right now, maybe also good for cooling
> > screwed in back plate.
> >
> > They are available for a fraction of that price if you can wait for the
> slow boat from China.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971006524.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1b034b8az60T9k
> Which is why I bought lots of them.

That's cheap.

> These also look like a very useful unit,
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32361079618.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5b3a2bf3mcvXyh

Without doubt, similar or same functionality as the modules I looked on, also 
cheap.

> There are DA and DD variants for AC and DC, and that is the "P" for
> high-side control.
> Previously I have not been able to find the DD variant in P , partly
> because you mainly find underwear.

Would expect the variant pulling to ground be slightly cheaper and better as if 
I remember NPN or N-MOS transistor is if I remember correctly is slightly 
cheap/better than the P variant, an extra transistor might also be needed. No 
big deal but it is slightly in wrong direction and usually work equally well 
pulling downwards.


Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] AC power for stepper motor drivers?

[N]

> Some of the larger size Stepper motor drivers will use AC input power.   I
> assume all that is needed is a transformer that is rated for the required
> current (and a fuse.)
> 
> Most people are using these Meanwell-style switching power supplies but it
> seems AC power might be better

I think ring transformers is a good option. They manufactured them where I 
worked before but have stopped, old factory name Transductor.

Are not sure but about power factor and efficiency but expect they are worse, 
are also pretty sure voltage get lower at higher load. Do however expect the 
transformers to be very reliable.


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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Chris Albertson]

With Teensy, you don't have to use the Arduino IDE.   It is a Cortex M7.
There are at least four good, professional-level development environments
all the way up the STM's "Cube"

A good compromise is ARM's Mbed.  It is almost as easy as Arduino but
includes a multi-tasking real-time OS with message queues and what you'd
expect or you can program in "bare metal".  They have an online compiler
you can use with no local install and they also have a command line version
that you can integrate with any IDE you have.  It is all open source.
https://os.mbed.com/docs/mbed-os/v6.0/introduction/index.html

The oline compiler is integrated with Git.  Users can contribut sample
programs and libraries and you can search for them and try them in the
online environment then move to the local computer

The M0 is fast enough for an ELS And $2.80 with free shipping makes it
worth having a few.  They are like the older Teensy.   The M7 is better but
physically much larger and costs more.


On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:10 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> > Sent: June-08-20 5:21 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments
> welcome.
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Have a look at the Teensy 4.1.
> > https://www.pjrc.com/teensy-4-1-released/
> > 600Mhz Cortex-M7. In a long dip form factor. Arduino development
> compatible for US$27
> >
> > https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html
> >
> I don't need the link.  I just have to look in my box of Teensy boards.  A
> couple of 3.1.  A 3.2 and a 4.1.  Not to mention other ones they plug into
> to drive LED arrays.
>
> Just can't stand the Arduino development environment.  But then I also
> made sure I wasn't brain damaged for life by making my first programming
> language Fortran.
>
> I can send you the Arduino program that crashes regularly on an ESP8266
> driving LEDs.  Haven't yet figured out why or how to trap it since it's in
> one of the libraries.  And unless someone has come up with a way to stop it
> when you compile in that environment it makes sure to erase all the
> intermediate files so you can't even look at what the compiler produces.
>
>
>
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
> > http://www.homanndesigns.com
> >
> > > On 9 Jun 2020, at 9:16 am, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?
> > >
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > >>
> > >> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
> > >> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software
> is
> > >> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to
> using
> > >> GCC and Eclipse.
> > >
> > > When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I
> started using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module,
> > CAN, even Barrel Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it
> should work on an easy and free development environment.  So
> > we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR counting for the spindle because I chose
> the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a couple of people who
> > contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
> > >
> > > So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell
> clients and students.
> > > 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.
> > > 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will
> satisfy those needs.
> > >
> > > Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is
> state I want to build  this project and it has to use an
> > Arduino because it's really popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do
> it but it's really popular and everyone uses it.
> > >
> > > That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move
> gravel.  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have
> > been sold than any other.  So it must be the right truck.
> > >
> > > Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of
> gravel to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10
> > tons per trip.  But really so many people can drive a half ton truck and
> you don't need a special license or all that extra insurance.
> > And gravel is gravel right?
> > >
> > > So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate
> floating point units tightly coupled with shared memory so
> > that I can have real time motion on one and trajectory planning on the
> other then maybe an 8bit Arduino isn't quite there.  Nor are
> > the ST processors that I've looked at.
> > >
> > > In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use
> the Arduino environment.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
> > >>> processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a
> fair
> > >>> 

Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Peter,

I'm far more interested in the dual processor TMS320F28379D than the ST family.

I've already ported my ELS code over to a PIC32 and through a buffer board have 
a 40 pin ribbon cable plugged in place of the PIC18F.  

It will be trivial to lay out a board that does this and uses the 
PIC32MK1024MCF064 which has 6 quadrature encoder devices, four CAN modules,  
PWM for motor control etc.  And since I have an ICD-4 for programming and 
debugging I can't see changing to a different family that wouldn't do anything 
different.  And it's only $7.30 Cdn. in singles.  

The PIC32 is 120MHz.  Single core and currently executes the ELS interrupt 
routine in under 3uS.  The PIC18 took 35uS which is what limited my max step 
rate to 20kHz.  You might remember the issues I had with your step to 10V 
module requiring 25kHz to reach 10V.  I still have that in a box somewhere.

Anyway I'm pretty sure the 200Mhz F28379D will also not require much time.   
But that's the experiment.  Once I figure out how to use this new IDE for the 
TI device I'll port the ELS code to it. 

I believe with most far more interested in an electronic gearing Arduino the 
market for any sort of sophisticated ELS is zero.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: June-08-20 8:21 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments 
> welcome.
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Just bare-metal program it then with GCC.
> You can use the onboard boot loader to program it.
> 
> If you want to connect a debugger you will have to hack out the SWD JTAG 
> lines.
> 
> 
> Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
> http://www.homanndesigns.com
> 
> > On 9 Jun 2020, at 12:31 pm, Chris Albertson  
> > wrote:
> >
> > ?THose parts, even the $2.80 development board are gross overkill for an ELS
> > system.   They have hardware quadrature counting up to a few MHz. and an
> > available real-time OS if you want.real
> >
> > One compromise that I think really is worth making is to look at JLPSB's
> > short list is "basic" components.  They will solder any of those to a PCB
> > for free, just the cost of the part with some parts under a penny each.
> > Not having tomess with reflow oven, microscopes and hot is worth being
> > restricted to a short (800 item) list of parts.
> >
> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM John Dammeyer  
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >>>
> >>> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
> >>> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
> >>> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
> >>> GCC and Eclipse.
> >>
> >> When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I
> >> started using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even
> >> Barrel Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an
> >> easy and free development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR
> >> counting for the spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a
> >> couple of people who contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
> >>
> >> So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients
> >> and students.
> >> 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.
> >> 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy
> >> those needs.
> >>
> >> Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state
> >> I want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's
> >> really popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really
> >> popular and everyone uses it.
> >>
> >> That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move
> >> gravel.  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold
> >> than any other.  So it must be the right truck.
> >>
> >> Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of
> >> gravel to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.
> >> But really so many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a
> >> special license or all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?
> >>
> >> So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate
> >> floating point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have
> >> real time motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an
> >> 8bit Arduino isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked
> >> at.
> >>
> >> In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the
> >> Arduino environment.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
>  My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
>  processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus 

Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]


> THose parts, even the $2.80 development board are gross overkill for an ELS
> system.   They have hardware quadrature counting up to a few MHz. and an
> available real-time OS if you want.real

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I think your definition of an 
ELS appears to be different from mine.   Plus I no longer care if I make 
something that requires a minimum of a BSc in Computer Science to understand 
and modify.

In reality the market for any sort of custom pendant is now pretty well zero.  
There are those who will build something from an Arduino or a Pi.  But they 
won't sell thousands or even hundreds.

I still like my ShuttleExpress on my MACH3 CNC router.   I'd buy another.
http://www.contourdesign.ca/product/shuttlexpress/

I've got one of those far east MPG pendants on the LinuxCNC/MACH3 dual boot 
system.  Works with either.  I finally got the display for the MODIO and I've 
had that working with MACH3.  Have yet to try the Modbus side of things for 
LinuxCNC.
It's like this one except wired.  Not wireless and I think it cost me $65.
https://www.amazon.ca/Autek-Wireless-Mac-Mach-Pendant-Handwheel/dp/B078HX2RM3/ref=sr_1_19


Other than the price of the processor, what is it specifically that you don't 
like about the TMS320F28379D.

John


> One compromise that I think really is worth making is to look at JLPSB's
> short list is "basic" components.  They will solder any of those to a PCB
> for free, just the cost of the part with some parts under a penny each.
> Not having tomess with reflow oven, microscopes and hot is worth being
> restricted to a short (800 item) list of parts.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Groups]

Hi John,

Just bare-metal program it then with GCC. 
You can use the onboard boot loader to program it. 

If you want to connect a debugger you will have to hack out the SWD JTAG lines. 


Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 9 Jun 2020, at 12:31 pm, Chris Albertson  wrote:
> 
> THose parts, even the $2.80 development board are gross overkill for an ELS
> system.   They have hardware quadrature counting up to a few MHz. and an
> available real-time OS if you want.real
> 
> One compromise that I think really is worth making is to look at JLPSB's
> short list is "basic" components.  They will solder any of those to a PCB
> for free, just the cost of the part with some parts under a penny each.
> Not having tomess with reflow oven, microscopes and hot is worth being
> restricted to a short (800 item) list of parts.
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
>>> 
>>> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
>>> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
>>> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
>>> GCC and Eclipse.
>> 
>> When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I
>> started using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even
>> Barrel Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an
>> easy and free development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR
>> counting for the spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a
>> couple of people who contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
>> 
>> So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients
>> and students.
>> 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.
>> 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy
>> those needs.
>> 
>> Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state
>> I want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's
>> really popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really
>> popular and everyone uses it.
>> 
>> That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move
>> gravel.  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold
>> than any other.  So it must be the right truck.
>> 
>> Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of
>> gravel to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.
>> But really so many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a
>> special license or all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?
>> 
>> So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate
>> floating point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have
>> real time motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an
>> 8bit Arduino isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked
>> at.
>> 
>> In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the
>> Arduino environment.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
 processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
 amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of
>> support
 for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at
>> ELS
 replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL
>> unit
 which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
 
 https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
 
 It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter
>> a
 SPI bus device.
 
 I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find
>> more
 than 5 minutes to play with it.
 
 John Dammeyer
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Chris Albertson]

THose parts, even the $2.80 development board are gross overkill for an ELS
system.   They have hardware quadrature counting up to a few MHz. and an
available real-time OS if you want.real

One compromise that I think really is worth making is to look at JLPSB's
short list is "basic" components.  They will solder any of those to a PCB
for free, just the cost of the part with some parts under a penny each.
Not having tomess with reflow oven, microscopes and hot is worth being
restricted to a short (800 item) list of parts.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:17 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >
> > f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
> > software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
> > usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
> > GCC and Eclipse.
>
> When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I
> started using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even
> Barrel Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an
> easy and free development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR
> counting for the spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a
> couple of people who contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
>
> So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients
> and students.
> 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.
> 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy
> those needs.
>
> Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state
> I want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's
> really popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really
> popular and everyone uses it.
>
> That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move
> gravel.  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold
> than any other.  So it must be the right truck.
>
> Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of
> gravel to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.
> But really so many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a
> special license or all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?
>
> So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate
> floating point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have
> real time motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an
> 8bit Arduino isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked
> at.
>
> In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the
> Arduino environment.
>
> John
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > > My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
> > > processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
> > > amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of
> support
> > > for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at
> ELS
> > > replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL
> unit
> > > which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
> > >
> > > https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
> > >
> > > It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter
> a
> > > SPI bus device.
> > >
> > > I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find
> more
> > > than 5 minutes to play with it.
> > >
> > > John Dammeyer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] AC power for stepper motor drivers?

[R C]

I 'rebuilt' a smaller lathe and mill, new steppers, drivers etc, but I 
wanted to keep the knobs/switches on the


enclosure working like they used to. So I just ended up doing everything 
with DC.  I only found out there are drivers that actually use DC (after 
I upgraded one of them), else I probably wouldn't even have kown.



Ron

On 6/8/20 8:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

I just re-discovered Antek.  They make toroidal transformers for CNC and
high-end audio.  They also make unregulated DC power supplies using these
transformers.

If you need 5.6 amps at about 80 volts DC one of these will work
https://www.antekinc.com/ps-5n84-500w-84v-power-supply/   Note that it is
rated for continuous 5.9 amps even with 50 Hz mains.   This DC
supply costs about $120 but for about $60 you could buy an AC
transformer with the same power rating.

(I've just answered my own question)

I used to use this company's products when I was into tube-based audio.  It
is a US based company and they are easy to deal with.   They also make much
larger power supplies.  It took me a while to "change gears" from audio to
machine tools but both need big DC power.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:44 PM R C  wrote:


I have one that does both,  for a larger stepper motor.

It can take a bit of effort to find a DC PSU that can actually provide
5.5A the motor can 'pull', it's a lot easier

to get a transformer for one (my driver is 48VAC-80VAC OR 24VDC-110VDC)

Jus a transformer will provide the amps your 'pulling'  and of course
without any measures, spikes etc can happen. A switching

power supply has bit of protection there.  I think the driver probably
has some simple rectifier in it, I would expect much there.




On 6/8/20 2:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Some of the larger size Stepper motor drivers will use AC input power.

  I

assume all that is needed is a transformer that is rated for the required
current (and a fuse.)

Most people are using these Meanwell-style switching power supplies but

it

seems AC power might be better

Questions
Is there is the best type of transformer?   Is there a good supplier?
What about back EMF?   Not knowing how the driver works I wonder what
happens when the motor is breaking.  Can there be an overvoltage problem?



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Re: [Emc-users] AC power for stepper motor drivers?

[Chris Albertson]

I just re-discovered Antek.  They make toroidal transformers for CNC and
high-end audio.  They also make unregulated DC power supplies using these
transformers.

If you need 5.6 amps at about 80 volts DC one of these will work
https://www.antekinc.com/ps-5n84-500w-84v-power-supply/   Note that it is
rated for continuous 5.9 amps even with 50 Hz mains.   This DC
supply costs about $120 but for about $60 you could buy an AC
transformer with the same power rating.

(I've just answered my own question)

I used to use this company's products when I was into tube-based audio.  It
is a US based company and they are easy to deal with.   They also make much
larger power supplies.  It took me a while to "change gears" from audio to
machine tools but both need big DC power.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:44 PM R C  wrote:

> I have one that does both,  for a larger stepper motor.
>
> It can take a bit of effort to find a DC PSU that can actually provide
> 5.5A the motor can 'pull', it's a lot easier
>
> to get a transformer for one (my driver is 48VAC-80VAC OR 24VDC-110VDC)
>
> Jus a transformer will provide the amps your 'pulling'  and of course
> without any measures, spikes etc can happen. A switching
>
> power supply has bit of protection there.  I think the driver probably
> has some simple rectifier in it, I would expect much there.
>
>
>
>
> On 6/8/20 2:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Some of the larger size Stepper motor drivers will use AC input power.
>  I
> > assume all that is needed is a transformer that is rated for the required
> > current (and a fuse.)
> >
> > Most people are using these Meanwell-style switching power supplies but
> it
> > seems AC power might be better
> >
> > Questions
> > Is there is the best type of transformer?   Is there a good supplier?
> > What about back EMF?   Not knowing how the driver works I wonder what
> > happens when the motor is breaking.  Can there be an overvoltage problem?
> >
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2020-06-09 at 01:20 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:30, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > the make process completes but dpkg-builpackage terminates with Error 2
> 
> 
> It might still have worked.
> 
> And you probably don't need a deb package. All you really need is your
> bitfile.
> 

installing linuxcnc 2.9 package on Debian Buster needs hostmot2
installed.

In what directory must the bit file be placed?






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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: June-08-20 5:21 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments 
> welcome.
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Have a look at the Teensy 4.1.
> https://www.pjrc.com/teensy-4-1-released/
> 600Mhz Cortex-M7. In a long dip form factor. Arduino development compatible 
> for US$27
> 
> https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html
> 
I don't need the link.  I just have to look in my box of Teensy boards.  A 
couple of 3.1.  A 3.2 and a 4.1.  Not to mention other ones they plug into to 
drive LED arrays.

Just can't stand the Arduino development environment.  But then I also made 
sure I wasn't brain damaged for life by making my first programming language 
Fortran.

I can send you the Arduino program that crashes regularly on an ESP8266 driving 
LEDs.  Haven't yet figured out why or how to trap it since it's in one of the 
libraries.  And unless someone has come up with a way to stop it when you 
compile in that environment it makes sure to erase all the intermediate files 
so you can't even look at what the compiler produces.  



> Cheers.
> 
> Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
> http://www.homanndesigns.com
> 
> > On 9 Jun 2020, at 9:16 am, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > ?
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >>
> >> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
> >> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
> >> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
> >> GCC and Eclipse.
> >
> > When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I 
> > started using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module,
> CAN, even Barrel Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should 
> work on an easy and free development environment.  So
> we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR counting for the spindle because I chose the 
> 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a couple of people who
> contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
> >
> > So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients 
> > and students.
> > 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.
> > 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy 
> > those needs.
> >
> > Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state I 
> > want to build  this project and it has to use an
> Arduino because it's really popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it 
> but it's really popular and everyone uses it.
> >
> > That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move 
> > gravel.  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have
> been sold than any other.  So it must be the right truck.
> >
> > Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of 
> > gravel to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10
> tons per trip.  But really so many people can drive a half ton truck and you 
> don't need a special license or all that extra insurance.
> And gravel is gravel right?
> >
> > So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate 
> > floating point units tightly coupled with shared memory so
> that I can have real time motion on one and trajectory planning on the other 
> then maybe an 8bit Arduino isn't quite there.  Nor are
> the ST processors that I've looked at.
> >
> > In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the 
> > Arduino environment.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer  
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
> >>> processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
> >>> amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of support
> >>> for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at ELS
> >>> replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL unit
> >>> which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
> >>>
> >>> https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
> >>>
> >>> It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter a
> >>> SPI bus device.
> >>>
> >>> I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find more
> >>> than 5 minutes to play with it.
> >>>
> >>> John Dammeyer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Chris Albertson
> >> Redondo Beach, California
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users 

Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Groups]

Hi John,

Have a look at the Teensy 4.1. 
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy-4-1-released/
600Mhz Cortex-M7. In a long dip form factor. Arduino development compatible for 
US$27

https://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy41.html

Cheers. 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 9 Jun 2020, at 9:16 am, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
>> 
>> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
>> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
>> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
>> GCC and Eclipse.
> 
> When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I started 
> using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even Barrel 
> Shifter.  However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an easy and 
> free development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR counting 
> for the spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a couple of 
> people who contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.
> 
> So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients and 
> students.  
> 1. Define the project and what you want it to do.  
> 2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy 
> those needs.
> 
> Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state I 
> want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's really 
> popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really popular and 
> everyone uses it.
> 
> That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move gravel. 
>  And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold than any 
> other.  So it must be the right truck.  
> 
> Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of gravel 
> to 1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.  But really 
> so many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a special 
> license or all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?
> 
> So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate floating 
> point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have real time 
> motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an 8bit Arduino 
> isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked at.  
> 
> In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the 
> Arduino environment. 
> 
> John
> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
>>> processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
>>> amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of support
>>> for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at ELS
>>> replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL unit
>>> which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
>>> 
>>> https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
>>> 
>>> It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter a
>>> SPI bus device.
>>> 
>>> I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find more
>>> than 5 minutes to play with it.
>>> 
>>> John Dammeyer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
>> 
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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Re: [Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:30, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:

> the make process completes but dpkg-builpackage terminates with Error 2


It might still have worked.

And you probably don't need a deb package. All you really need is your
bitfile.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> 
> f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
> software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
> usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
> GCC and Eclipse.

When I first designed the ELS back in 2006 I had that philosophy.  I started 
using a 16 bit DSP which had the QEI encoder module, CAN, even Barrel Shifter.  
However, I bought into the idea that it should work on an easy and free 
development environment.  So we ended up with a MACH2/3 1PPR counting for the 
spindle because I chose the 8 bit PIC.  And I did get a couple of people who 
contributed with some bug fixes.  But overall not.

So this time I'm going to follow my own advice and do what I tell clients and 
students.  
1. Define the project and what you want it to do.  
2. Determine what parts/products and development environment will satisfy those 
needs.

Not the other way around.  So the worst thing anyone can ever do is state I 
want to build  this project and it has to use an Arduino because it's really 
popular.   Don't know if the Arduino will do it but it's really popular and 
everyone uses it.

That's like saying I really like this little truck and I want to move gravel.  
And it's such a popular truck. I read more of these have been sold than any 
other.  So it must be the right truck.  

Of course ignoring that for each trip that truck limits the amount of gravel to 
1/2 ton and to get the project done you need 10 tons per trip.  But really so 
many people can drive a half ton truck and you don't need a special license or 
all that extra insurance.  And gravel is gravel right?

So if I want a processor that has two 200 MHz cores and two separate floating 
point units tightly coupled with shared memory so that I can have real time 
motion on one and trajectory planning on the other then maybe an 8bit Arduino 
isn't quite there.  Nor are the ST processors that I've looked at.  

In fact I'd use a BeagleBone Black with its two PRU's before I'd use the 
Arduino environment. 

John


> 
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
> > processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
> > amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of support
> > for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at ELS
> > replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL unit
> > which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
> >
> > https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
> >
> > It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter a
> > SPI bus device.
> >
> > I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find more
> > than 5 minutes to play with it.
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] pot for vfd

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 15:53, grumpy--- via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
> can someone recommend a 10k pot that will handle the vibration
>

I would normally assume that wire-wound was better and more reliable, but:
This one is rated at 500,000 revolutions.
https://docs.rs-online.com/a490/0900766b800ad522.pdf
Whereas a conductive plastic one:
https://docs.rs-online.com/49bb/0900766b81599e96.pdf
Is good for 5 million  revs

Both are quite expensive. (£60)  The wirewound one seems to have the better
vibration resistance, but only by 30%

Something about 1/10th those prices is probably fine, but 1/100 the price
is probably too cheap.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Chris Albertson]

$40?  I've been using these whenever I can ebay.com/itm/STM32F103C8T6

I use them as it where were a giant DIP chip  At $2.80 each you can buy in
bulk and just have some around.   Mostly the pins are 5V tolerant

But the deciding factor is the software environment. The STM32 works with
the Arduino IDE as well as GCC/Eclipse and Arm's "mbed" ecosystem and STM's
"stm cube".  THere are also a few RTOSes if yu need a realtime OS.   So
there ar many software option.   For really simple stuff the Arduino IDE
works but I've used a multi-tasking RTOS too.And you can't beat the
price.These will certainly handle a pendant.

What they can't handle, I found is two A/B encoders that are both
running at high speed (11,000 RPM) and a serial port and a couple of PID
loops.  For that I use the bigger version of about the same thing  that
cost $14. st.com/.../nucleo-f446re.html

 This one has hardware floating-point and a faster clock.   THere is a $7
"motor control shield that works to control up to about 12 amp DC motor  so
you get to control and drive a couple servoes with encoders for about $35
with off the shelf hardware (no solder.)  ebay.com/itm/Dual-VNH2SP30

The VHN chip was design for aautomotive use for seat adjustment and
windsheild wipers

f you are going to build an open-source project, you need a
software environment that  potential contributors can use.   Software is
usually the weak link for most hobby builders   Most are not up to using
GCC and Eclipse.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:23 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual
> processors, dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair
> amount of memory.  And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of support
> for using these as AC Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at ELS
> replacements for my PIC18F series board and potentially that ELS-MILL unit
> which in many ways would be more like a smart pendent.
>
> https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D
>
> It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter a
> SPI bus device.
>
> I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find more
> than 5 minutes to play with it.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] pot for vfd

[cogoman via Emc-users]

I second the motion to try contact cleaner.  I use Caig DeoxIT that i 
bought from Parts Express. It's a little expansive, but worth every 
penny!   At my church we had a CD/DVD duplicator that started acting up. 
I pulled apart all the cable connections and sprayed them and put them 
back on a few times and it went back to working like normal.  The church 
building is warm one day a week, and then damp the rest of the time 
(does that remind you of your shop?) The stuff has a lubricant that's 
left behind to seal the contact points to keep water and oxygen out.


On 6/5/20 3:36 PM, N wrote:

a few years ago i switched my lathe to a 3 phase motor and vfd
i added a 10k pot to the lathe panel
recently the motor speed started fluctuating
i switched the vfd back to using the pot on it's front panel
no more fluctuation
can someone recommend a 10k pot that will handle the vibration

Farnell have, many different kinds, simple and multiturn precision. Also 
digital but they do not have a knob ;/

Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] AC power for stepper motor drivers?

[R C]

I have one that does both,  for a larger stepper motor.

It can take a bit of effort to find a DC PSU that can actually provide 
5.5A the motor can 'pull', it's a lot easier


to get a transformer for one (my driver is 48VAC-80VAC OR 24VDC-110VDC)

Jus a transformer will provide the amps your 'pulling'  and of course 
without any measures, spikes etc can happen. A switching


power supply has bit of protection there.  I think the driver probably 
has some simple rectifier in it, I would expect much there.





On 6/8/20 2:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Some of the larger size Stepper motor drivers will use AC input power.   I
assume all that is needed is a transformer that is rated for the required
current (and a fuse.)

Most people are using these Meanwell-style switching power supplies but it
seems AC power might be better

Questions
Is there is the best type of transformer?   Is there a good supplier?
What about back EMF?   Not knowing how the driver works I wonder what
happens when the motor is breaking.  Can there be an overvoltage problem?




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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[John Dammeyer]

My TI Delfino F28379D Launchpad kit just arrived.  This has dual processors, 
dual floating point units, QEI modules, CAN bus and a fair amount of memory.  
And around $40 with shipping.  There's lots of support for using these as AC 
Servo motor controllers but I'm still looking at ELS replacements for my PIC18F 
series board and potentially that ELS-MILL unit which in many ways would be 
more like a smart pendent.

https://www.ti.com/tool/LAUNCHXL-F28379D

It doesn't have Ethernet but can be a USB device.   Or for that matter a SPI 
bus device.

I'll post progress reports under a different subject line once I find more than 
5 minutes to play with it.

John Dammeyer




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[Emc-users] AC power for stepper motor drivers?

[Chris Albertson]

Some of the larger size Stepper motor drivers will use AC input power.   I
assume all that is needed is a transformer that is rated for the required
current (and a fuse.)

Most people are using these Meanwell-style switching power supplies but it
seems AC power might be better

Questions
Is there is the best type of transformer?   Is there a good supplier?
What about back EMF?   Not knowing how the driver works I wonder what
happens when the motor is breaking.  Can there be an overvoltage problem?

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Output amplifier, DIN rail

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 18:15, N  wrote:

> >
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zerone-Solid-State-Mounting-Screws/dp/B083BXCQFN
>
> A little bit stingy for this one right now, maybe also good for cooling
> screwed in back plate.
>
> They are available for a fraction of that price if you can wait for the
slow boat from China.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971006524.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1b034b8az60T9k
Which is why I bought lots of them.

These also look like a very useful unit,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32361079618.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5b3a2bf3mcvXyh

There are DA and DD variants for AC and DC, and that is the "P" for
high-side control.
Previously I have not been able to find the DD variant in P , partly
because you mainly find underwear.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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[Emc-users] hostmot2-firmware built, but failing to install

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

the make process completes but dpkg-builpackage terminates with Error 2

later I will post details.

btw, it was necessary to trick Xilinx to build on 64 bits, basically:

mv .../lin to .../lin32
mv .../lin64 to .../lin

that way it builds.




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Re: [Emc-users] MesaNet cards free to good home

[Thomas Fritz]

Already found a home for them.



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Re: [Emc-users] Output amplifier, DIN rail

[N]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 23:37:35 +0100
andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 23:00, N  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Output is 24V more or less standard for PLC or similar but the one above
> > for connection to Micro Controller.
> 
> 
> Maybe
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zerone-5-220VDC-Industrial-Automation-Process/dp/B0822S5FZJ

Yes this one should do it with good margin.

> And:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zerone-Solid-State-Mounting-Screws/dp/B083BXCQFN

A little bit stingy for this one right now, maybe also good for cooling screwed 
in back plate.

> (Those SSR DIN clips are pretty good for generic DIN rail use. I have quite
> a stock of them now)

It is must be a handy part.


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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[André Meier]

Have you seen this DIY Handwheel projekt?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_VYIPNtuk=629s

André


Am Mo., 8. Juni 2020 um 17:54 Uhr schrieb Jon Elson :

> On 06/07/2020 10:59 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > *One question:Does a pendant need a "activate" button* on the side
> such
> > that the controls are disabled if you don't hold the button down.  You
> > don't want to jog a mill by accident if the wheel is bumped.
> YES !!!  I have mine set up that way.  Make sure the button
> can be held by your index finger while your thumb can turn
> the skirt on the MPG dial, this allows one-hand jogging to
> touch-off.
>
> On this picture, the button at the lower left is the jog
> enable, the one above it is a momentary E-stop.
> http://pico-systems.com/images/mmpendant.jpg
>
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Working on Pendant and debouncer PCBs, comments welcome.

[Jon Elson]

On 06/07/2020 10:59 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

*One question:Does a pendant need a "activate" button* on the side such
that the controls are disabled if you don't hold the button down.  You
don't want to jog a mill by accident if the wheel is bumped.
YES !!!  I have mine set up that way.  Make sure the button 
can be held by your index finger while your thumb can turn 
the skirt on the MPG dial, this allows one-hand jogging to 
touch-off.


On this picture, the button at the lower left is the jog 
enable, the one above it is a momentary E-stop.

http://pico-systems.com/images/mmpendant.jpg


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Pseudo-5-axis

[Stuart Stevenson]

I have done very little using the XYABCUVW registers in the tool table. I
like they are available but I have seldom used them. I try to think ASAP
(As Simple As Possible).

You will need to treat all usable axis symbols in kinematics.

When I think of 4 or 5 axis tilting the tool I only envision the tool
length as measured along the Z axis when A0 and B0 are true.
The tool length is the distance from the tool tip to the chosen gage point
along the tool axis. The chosen gage point is a distance from the pivot
point to a convenient location along the tool axis for tool length
measurement purposes. The addition of the derived tool length and the
chosen pivot length result in the total distance from the tool tip to the
pivot point. The derived tool length is then entered into the Z register in
the tool table.

I then only think of using the Z register in the tool table. 5 axis tool
length compensation uses only the Z register in the tool table. The Z
register tool table entry is added to the pivot length value to give you
the distance from the tool tip to the pivot point. This distance is used to
calculate the XYZ offset to place the pivot point in space to cause the
tool tip to be positioned at the zero point of the gcode program. When
using 5 axis tool length compensation the tool tip position is coincident
with the gcode XYZ position if the UVW axis positions values are zero.
At this point I have ignored any tool table values except the Z register.

I consider the axis values (XYZABCUVW axis positions), work piece offset
values (G54...) and tool table values having completely separate functions
and try to never confuse them.

You can encounter axis and/or joint over feed rate conditions. The gcode
feed value should be calculated at some cutting point close to the tool tip
but far enough up the tool to result in a coherent cutting condition for
the application. This may cause the pivot point to move much faster than
the cutting point. The axis/joint limits should handle this but you will
then have a much slower cutting point feed than desired. You may need to
change your cutting protocol to position the tool angle and cut using only
XYZ motion for a portion of your cut. Sadly, everything is a compromise.

A copy of my Blue Cinci Kinematics is at the dropbox link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6onw28qofb44h1/cincikins.c?dl=0

This has the geometric compensation and 5 axis tool length calculations and
creates links to variables in the .ini file.
The geometric compensation is complicated but it works.

HTH
Have fun
Stuart


On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:55 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 19:58, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:
>
> > You want to tool length not a z axis offset.
>
>
> Yes, but there isn't a generic tool length in the tool table. Tool
> geometry is tied to cartesian directions.
>
> If the tool has an entry in the Z column then G43 adds that number to the Z
> coordinate. There is (as far as I know) no consideration of kinematics.
> Putting the tool length in the W column might work, but then I would
> probably need to keep two tool tables, one for conventional milling and one
> where I wanted to use the B axis.
>
> But, you have used 5-axis and I have not. So perhaps I am wrong about how
> tool lengths are applied?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Pseudo-5-axis

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 19:58, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> You want to tool length not a z axis offset.


Yes, but there isn't a generic tool length in the tool table. Tool
geometry is tied to cartesian directions.

If the tool has an entry in the Z column then G43 adds that number to the Z
coordinate. There is (as far as I know) no consideration of kinematics.
Putting the tool length in the W column might work, but then I would
probably need to keep two tool tables, one for conventional milling and one
where I wanted to use the B axis.

But, you have used 5-axis and I have not. So perhaps I am wrong about how
tool lengths are applied?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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