Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[James Isaac via Emc-users]

 In the 1970's, there was a siphon fed aquarium filter, 
 with a motor outside the aquarium, attached to the bottom of the filter 
basket.The top of the filter basket held glass or polyester type filter 
materials, with a following layer of water conditioning carbon pellets.The 
return pump was at the bottom of the basket, with a magnet on the 
impeller,driven by the magnet on the shaft of the bottom motor.
I noticed the next generation of that pump and filter in the 1980's, where the 
filter basket was now inside the aquarium, so the error and disaster prone 
siphon was replaced by a gap at the top of the filter basket.Again, the drive 
mechanism of the filter was a motor outside the aquarium,driving a magnet on 
the motor shaft, with a magnetic impeller driving the water through a pump in 
the filter basket.
Both motor filters were outside the aquarium.Safety was the first reason for 
putting the motor outside the aquarium.Given that the temperature of aquarium 
fish is one thing you can change when you are trying to breed tropical fish, I 
suggest that was a reason for isolating the possibly varying temperature of a 
motor from the water of the aquarium.
I keep reminding myself of the magnetic coupled impeller, 
when I think of glass or plastic, and things to do in water.

James Isaac.


On Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 07:25:09 p.m. EST, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:  
 
 Advice from aquariu use.  Place EVERYTHING inside the tank if you can,
filters and all.  Leaks then don't make a mess, broken hoses don't make a
mess.  Of course, you can not place the spindle motor in the tank but
assuming the motor is the only thing not in the tank, there are only two
connections that can leak.

That said, you would have never noticed the filters were leaking if they
were inside the tank.

Also, the downside of placing the pump in the tank is the pump will heat
the water.  But maybe you don't run it enough to matter I was doing 8 or
12-hour runs.



On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:07 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 3:34:37 PM EST gene heskett wrote:
> replying to myself to issue a warning and a fix.
>
> > I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that
> > I put
> > half a cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it
> > so I can dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
> >
> And I still haven't dumped it. I bought an undersink Colligan sediment
> filter just because it looked like a higher quality unit than anything
> else I'd looked at, a bit less than $50 at tsc. Then I went to the local
> hdwe store and bought 2, 1/2" pipe to 1.4" hose barbs and 3/4" bushings
> to fit the filter ports. Should have bought brass, these were split
> molded, leaving a worn die fin at the junction of the die halves. Took 4
> layers a teflon tape to seal the threads and some permagoo on the barbs
> to seal them down to about a drop a minute or less leakage.
>
> But the screw on filter can might as well not have had an o-ring seal, it
> just poured out. Taking it apart again three or 4 times I finally grokked
> it had a pressure limit built in and that if it had city water pressure
> it would push the o-ring outward in its groove and seal. At 2 or 4 psi,
> taint gonna happen. Then I spotted a raised edge on the bottom of the
> cap, measured it and it would hit some carefully machined bumps located
> outside the o-ring groove, so as it was maybe 5 thou high, I reasoned it
> might get a better grip and seal on the o-ring if it was removed, so I
> filed it off until the file was touching the rest of the bottom face of
> the cap, then smoothed it up with a 600 grit diamond plate. Stop leak
> worked. I've got about a drop every 2 or so minutes at the output adapter
>
> I've unplugged the motor, and left lcnc thinking its running about 4k, so
> the pump is running, and all sorts of particulates can be seen in the
> filter but I'm far more interested in how clear the mix looks tomorrow.
>
> Right now it's cloudy and only the ghost of the pump can be seen thru the
> plastic tank. But it appears I may have a decent filter that doesn't seem
> to restrict the flow.  And with 2 spare 5 micron filters I've got maybe
> $75 in it.
>
> Take care and stay well everybody.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Chris Albertson]

Advice from aquariu use.  Place EVERYTHING inside the tank if you can,
filters and all.  Leaks then don't make a mess, broken hoses don't make a
mess.   Of course, you can not place the spindle motor in the tank but
assuming the motor is the only thing not in the tank, there are only two
connections that can leak.

That said, you would have never noticed the filters were leaking if they
were inside the tank.

Also, the downside of placing the pump in the tank is the pump will heat
the water.  But maybe you don't run it enough to matter I was doing 8 or
12-hour runs.



On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:07 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 3:34:37 PM EST gene heskett wrote:
> replying to myself to issue a warning and a fix.
>
> > I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that
> > I put
> > half a cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it
> > so I can dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
> >
> And I still haven't dumped it. I bought an undersink Colligan sediment
> filter just because it looked like a higher quality unit than anything
> else I'd looked at, a bit less than $50 at tsc. Then I went to the local
> hdwe store and bought 2, 1/2" pipe to 1.4" hose barbs and 3/4" bushings
> to fit the filter ports. Should have bought brass, these were split
> molded, leaving a worn die fin at the junction of the die halves. Took 4
> layers a teflon tape to seal the threads and some permagoo on the barbs
> to seal them down to about a drop a minute or less leakage.
>
> But the screw on filter can might as well not have had an o-ring seal, it
> just poured out. Taking it apart again three or 4 times I finally grokked
> it had a pressure limit built in and that if it had city water pressure
> it would push the o-ring outward in its groove and seal. At 2 or 4 psi,
> taint gonna happen. Then I spotted a raised edge on the bottom of the
> cap, measured it and it would hit some carefully machined bumps located
> outside the o-ring groove, so as it was maybe 5 thou high, I reasoned it
> might get a better grip and seal on the o-ring if it was removed, so I
> filed it off until the file was touching the rest of the bottom face of
> the cap, then smoothed it up with a 600 grit diamond plate. Stop leak
> worked. I've got about a drop every 2 or so minutes at the output adapter
>
> I've unplugged the motor, and left lcnc thinking its running about 4k, so
> the pump is running, and all sorts of particulates can be seen in the
> filter but I'm far more interested in how clear the mix looks tomorrow.
>
> Right now it's cloudy and only the ghost of the pump can be seen thru the
> plastic tank. But it appears I may have a decent filter that doesn't seem
> to restrict the flow.  And with 2 spare 5 micron filters I've got maybe
> $75 in it.
>
> Take care and stay well everybody.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 3:34:37 PM EST gene heskett wrote:
replying to myself to issue a warning and a fix.

> I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that
> I put
> half a cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it
> so I can dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
> 
And I still haven't dumped it. I bought an undersink Colligan sediment 
filter just because it looked like a higher quality unit than anything 
else I'd looked at, a bit less than $50 at tsc. Then I went to the local 
hdwe store and bought 2, 1/2" pipe to 1.4" hose barbs and 3/4" bushings 
to fit the filter ports. Should have bought brass, these were split 
molded, leaving a worn die fin at the junction of the die halves. Took 4 
layers a teflon tape to seal the threads and some permagoo on the barbs 
to seal them down to about a drop a minute or less leakage.

But the screw on filter can might as well not have had an o-ring seal, it 
just poured out. Taking it apart again three or 4 times I finally grokked 
it had a pressure limit built in and that if it had city water pressure 
it would push the o-ring outward in its groove and seal. At 2 or 4 psi, 
taint gonna happen. Then I spotted a raised edge on the bottom of the 
cap, measured it and it would hit some carefully machined bumps located 
outside the o-ring groove, so as it was maybe 5 thou high, I reasoned it 
might get a better grip and seal on the o-ring if it was removed, so I 
filed it off until the file was touching the rest of the bottom face of 
the cap, then smoothed it up with a 600 grit diamond plate. Stop leak 
worked. I've got about a drop every 2 or so minutes at the output adapter

I've unplugged the motor, and left lcnc thinking its running about 4k, so 
the pump is running, and all sorts of particulates can be seen in the 
filter but I'm far more interested in how clear the mix looks tomorrow.

Right now it's cloudy and only the ghost of the pump can be seen thru the 
plastic tank. But it appears I may have a decent filter that doesn't seem 
to restrict the flow.  And with 2 spare 5 micron filters I've got maybe 
$75 in it.

Take care and stay well everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Chris Albertson]

I've run these before.  Just place a filter in the system.  Whatever else
you do is secondary.   Dirt, bugs spiders and whatever don't matter if
there is a filter.   If you are not running a production shop that filter
will see only a few hours a week of use and last "forever".

The simplest possible setup is a bucket or tub with a submersible filter in
the bottom of the bucket.  Then the output and return lines go to the
bottom of the back and if there is a leak it leaks back into the bucket.
Then (key point) cover the pumps intake with a few wraps of "filter fluff"
and secure it with a zip tie.   If you want to streak the water use
anything that is marked as SAFE for animals and pets.   If it will not kill
a cat, it is safe for your pump and motor.   I think $3 Vodka would work
well.

As long as you have the filter zip tied to the intake, noting gets into the
system.

The other thing I used was a floating aquarium thermometer.This lets
you know if the tank is large enough.  If the temperature shoots up you
need a bigger tank.


Summry:  (1) use a filter, after that no much else matters
 (2) use only "pet safe" chemicals but only if you have an
actual problem that needs a solution.   I keep aquarium tanks filled with
just plain water and they remain clear for many years at a time.  With no
fish, any way-cheap filter will keep the water clear. An air-stone powered
filter would work and cost nothing to run 24x7.  he airstone also cools the
water by turning it over.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 8:27 AM gene heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 8:39:09 AM EST Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Automotive applications were predominately iron, aluminum, and some
> > plastic with almost no copper for a very long time before different
> > color antifreezes became common.
> >
> One side effect of cooling stuff like a spindle motor comes to mind. In
> the vehicle, it quite easily achieves a kill everything temperature,
> keeping even an active biological mix reasonably sterile if it doesn't
> sit too long.
>
> Cooling a spindle motor does not generally reach those temps but the
> small elevation in heat it does achieve encourages the biological
> contaminants to grow faster. So I might setup a cron job to run the pump
> for an hour in the wee hours if lcnc isn't running, and it would be easy
> enough to dump the return line into a leaky spoon, which if it gets
> enough flow would activate a micro-switch to tally enough flow, and have
> the cron job send me a change the filter email if, say 5 minutes before
> shutdown, the switch isn't closed. Or yell if the switch is closed before
> the pump starts because the hole is plugged. It probably won't happen,
> but that is what you get when I let my imagination out to play w/o a
> chaperone. ;)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 8:39:09 AM EST Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Automotive applications were predominately iron, aluminum, and some
> plastic with almost no copper for a very long time before different
> color antifreezes became common.
> 
One side effect of cooling stuff like a spindle motor comes to mind. In 
the vehicle, it quite easily achieves a kill everything temperature, 
keeping even an active biological mix reasonably sterile if it doesn't 
sit too long.

Cooling a spindle motor does not generally reach those temps but the 
small elevation in heat it does achieve encourages the biological 
contaminants to grow faster. So I might setup a cron job to run the pump 
for an hour in the wee hours if lcnc isn't running, and it would be easy 
enough to dump the return line into a leaky spoon, which if it gets 
enough flow would activate a micro-switch to tally enough flow, and have 
the cron job send me a change the filter email if, say 5 minutes before 
shutdown, the switch isn't closed. Or yell if the switch is closed before 
the pump starts because the hole is plugged. It probably won't happen, 
but that is what you get when I let my imagination out to play w/o a 
chaperone. ;)

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Todd Zuercher]

Yeah Andy, I wasn't really thinking of antiques.  American automotive companies 
were switching to aluminum radiators in the early 80s (if not sooner) and other 
aluminum parts were not uncommon long before that, and it was another 20 years 
before different coolant formulas became common.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:27 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 at 14:18, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
>
> Automotive applications were predominately iron, aluminum, and some plastic 
> with almost no copper for a very long time before different color antifreezes 
> became common.

Depends on your perspective, there is lots of copper in the engines I am 
interested in. But those are probably older than you are thinking of.

https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.app.goo.gl%2FY4ngUmEEtEftwtsX6data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7C98eafa5323ad4cabb51508d9da8eda65%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637781129382583092%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=WhvS6M7JKZuUw3Y%2F%2BV%2B6zEFbjsPOfs%2BnteIc3SFulXY%3Dreserved=0

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
- George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 at 14:18, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
>
> Automotive applications were predominately iron, aluminum, and some plastic 
> with almost no copper for a very long time before different color antifreezes 
> became common.

Depends on your perspective, there is lots of copper in the engines I
am interested in. But those are probably older than you are thinking
of.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Y4ngUmEEtEftwtsX6

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Todd Zuercher]

Automotive applications were predominately iron, aluminum, and some plastic 
with almost no copper for a very long time before different color antifreezes 
became common.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Thaddeus Waldner  
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 6:42 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

The color is a dye to identify what kind of additives are added. In general, 
green is the older concoction and is designed for steel and copper, whereas the 
yellow or orange stuff has additives that are better suited for the plastic and 
aluminum coolant system parts in modern vehicles. I don't think there are any 
standards for these colors so OEMs don't necessarily stick to them.

Many 3rd party suppliers have a variety of colors and they usually specify the 
additives for each.

Word is that you shouldn't mix different types because the additives can react 
and gel.



> On Jan 17, 2022, at 5:05 PM, gene heskett  wrote:
>
> You've not had any mold or other growth in it in 5 years? I can't get 
> past 4 months here. But I've not tried the above yet. I've a couple 
> gallons of an orange 50-50 mix, what the diff between green and 
> yellow/ orange?


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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I bet the coolant made for Toyota Prius engines and power inverters would be 
ideal for a CNC spindle motor. It only comes as a premix, and is only available 
from Zerex or Toyota. It's made with distilled and deionized water so it's 
completely non-conductive.
What might be a strike against it is when it dries it makes pink crystals. 
That's a thing to check for on a 2nd generation Prius. Feel around below the 
water pump for pink crystals, which indicates a leak. Only belt driven thing on 
those. 3rd gen went to an electric water pump.

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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Milosz K.]

Once biologics get into a system, clean out is the first step. However, no
amount of filtration can remove them all, if you don't kill all the
bacteria it will come back.

Just passing along what I learned from a Rustlick rep many years ago.

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 6:29 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On Monday, January 17, 2022 12:06:19 PM EST Milosz K. wrote:
> > Triadine 20 at no more than 1oz per 5 gallons.
> >
> Not too bad a price once Amazon breaks up the 6 pack minimum.  OTOH, it
> does read like nasty, dangerous stuff. I'll see how well todays cleanup
> works, first.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Thaddeus Waldner]

The color is a dye to identify what kind of additives are added. In general, 
green is the older concoction and is designed for steel and copper, whereas the 
yellow or orange stuff has additives that are better suited for the plastic and 
aluminum coolant system parts in modern vehicles. I don’t think there are any 
standards for these colors so OEMs don’t necessarily stick to them.

Many 3rd party suppliers have a variety of colors and they usually specify the 
additives for each.

Word is that you shouldn’t mix different types because the additives can react 
and gel.

 

> On Jan 17, 2022, at 5:05 PM, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> You've not had any mold or other growth in it in 5 years? I can't get 
> past 4 months here. But I've not tried the above yet. I've a couple 
> gallons of an orange 50-50 mix, what the diff between green and yellow/
> orange?


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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 12:06:19 PM EST Milosz K. wrote:
> Triadine 20 at no more than 1oz per 5 gallons.
> 
Not too bad a price once Amazon breaks up the 6 pack minimum.  OTOH, it 
does read like nasty, dangerous stuff. I'll see how well todays cleanup 
works, first.

> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 3:37 PM gene heskett  
wrote:
> > I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted
> > that
> > the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand
> > hand on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was
> > working. Its an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for
> > aquariums and such. So I measure the nut to see how big a "pocket"
> > to make to hold the nut.
> > 
> > About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the
> > top of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty
> > warm, check the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of
> > dirty grey mold sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it
> > out so I put half a cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't
> > disconnected it so I can dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
> > 
> > Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet.
> > So what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile,
> > non-corrosive and functional?
> > 
> > Thanks all.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > --
> > 
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > 
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable.> 
> >  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > 
> > Genes Web page 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 9:17:34 AM EST Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I have been running normal green automotive antifreeze diluted to about
> 25% with distilled water, for our liquid cooled spindles.  (But we've
> only had them for about 5 years.)
> 
Are you snowed in till the plows come yet? I thought maybe we had a break 
over here in NC WV at about 8" 2 hours ago, but its started up again now.

You've not had any mold or other growth in it in 5 years? I can't get 
past 4 months here. But I've not tried the above yet. I've a couple 
gallons of an orange 50-50 mix, what the diff between green and yellow/
orange?

I went out and found a gallon of prestones 300k miles pure stuff, pale 
green but quite clear, I could see all the way to the bottom of the jug.  
Came back in and found a tea strainer, took it and a disposable plastic 
box out and scooped up as much snot as the strainer could catch, put half 
a gallon of the Preston in it, and jerked the hose off the pump. Started 
the motor at about 8g's and put the air hose into the line I'd pulled off 
the pump. Got huge gobs of slime out of the motors return line 
splattering back into the tank, and kept blowing until nothing but air 
came back out. Clean up the floaters with the tea strainer again. Added 
another quart of the good stuff, shut the motor down and waited for the 
timeout to shut the pump off, several minutes. Stuck an arm into the tank 
and hooked the high side hose back up to the pump, washed me up. Got a 
small lead pencil flow out of the return when I started the motor.  
greenish liquid is cloudy with visible particles moving around. Rigged 
the tea strainer so it caught the return flow, and left it running to 
wash me up better.  Now what I need is a paper fuel filter but about 10x 
bigger and no metal to rust.  Put it on the pumps outlet so the crap 
doesn't have a chance to get back to the motor.  Large car fuel filter 
maybe? Something with a paper element, but no iron to rust. All plastic 
and paper.

Looked around on the net, no such luck. Household water filters could be 
used but they are all so over designed for city pressures even the junk 
starts at $40.

Come driving weather, go look around & see whats under 5 years of dust on 
the shelves.  You have any better ideas? I'm about what if'd out.

Thanks Todd.

Take care & stay well.

> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street 
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Les Newell 
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:23 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> 
> I'd really recommend not using copper sulphate. It is corrosive to many
> metals, especially aluminium. In my laser and tig welder I use 20 -
> 30% propylene glycol in deionised/distilled water. Propylene glycol is
> the active ingredient in most RV antifreeze, without the dye and other
> additives. I've never changed the coolant in either. I just add water
> as needed. The laser's coolant has to be at least 8 years old and it's
> still clear and clean.
> 
> Les
> 
> On 16/01/2022 22:15, dave engvall wrote:
> > Cu inhibits algae and should do a decent job on most bacteria. So a
> > bit of Cu sulfate.
> > Zn chloride and or ferrous chloride inhibits moss but the ferrous
> > oxidizes to ferric and stains siding/concrete so use the chloride. In
> > a pinch just use a bit of Clorox; even peroxide should do the job.
> > If you can keep the mist away from your lungs you might try isopropyl
> > alcohol.
> > HTH
> > 
> > Dave
> 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>





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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Milosz K.]

Triadine 20 at no more than 1oz per 5 gallons.

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 3:37 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that
> the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand hand
> on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was working. Its
> an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for aquariums and such. So I
> measure the nut to see how big a "pocket" to make to hold the nut.
>
> About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the top
> of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty warm, check
> the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of dirty grey mold
> sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it out so I put half a
> cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it so I can
> dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
>
> Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet. So
> what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile, non-corrosive and
> functional?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Todd Zuercher]

I have been running normal green automotive antifreeze diluted to about 25% 
with distilled water, for our liquid cooled spindles.  (But we've only had them 
for about 5 years.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Les Newell  
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 8:23 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

I'd really recommend not using copper sulphate. It is corrosive to many metals, 
especially aluminium.
In my laser and tig welder I use 20 - 30% propylene glycol in 
deionised/distilled water. Propylene glycol is the active ingredient in most RV 
antifreeze, without the dye and other additives. I've never changed the coolant 
in either. I just add water as needed. The laser's coolant has to be at least 8 
years old and it's still clear and clean.

Les

On 16/01/2022 22:15, dave engvall wrote:
> Cu inhibits algae and should do a decent job on most bacteria. So a 
> bit of Cu sulfate.
> Zn chloride and or ferrous chloride inhibits moss but the ferrous 
> oxidizes to ferric and stains siding/concrete so use the chloride. In 
> a pinch just use a bit of Clorox; even peroxide should do the job.
> If you can keep the mist away from your lungs you might try isopropyl 
> alcohol.
> HTH
>
> Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Les Newell]

I'd really recommend not using copper sulphate. It is corrosive to many 
metals, especially aluminium.
In my laser and tig welder I use 20 - 30% propylene glycol in 
deionised/distilled water. Propylene glycol is the active ingredient in 
most RV antifreeze, without the dye and other additives. I've never 
changed the coolant in either. I just add water as needed. The laser's 
coolant has to be at least 8 years old and it's still clear and clean.


Les

On 16/01/2022 22:15, dave engvall wrote:
Cu inhibits algae and should do a decent job on most bacteria. So a 
bit of Cu sulfate.
Zn chloride and or ferrous chloride inhibits moss but the ferrous 
oxidizes to ferric and stains
siding/concrete so use the chloride. In a pinch just use a bit of 
Clorox; even peroxide should do the job.
If you can keep the mist away from your lungs you might try isopropyl 
alcohol.

HTH

Dave 




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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:05:13 PM EST andy pugh wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 21:44, gene heskett  
wrote:
> > I first started out with rv antifreeze, but it spoiled and jelled
> > solid
> I think I would be tempted to try the waterless coolant that they sell
> for cars, though that would depend on how much was needed. It's not
> cheap.
> https://motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-waterl
> ess-coolant/

Interesting stuff, but if its made its way across the small pond is a new 
?. I was just at Advanced Auto here, and did note some gawdawfull 
expensive stuff for European cars, but "waterless" didn't jump off the 
label at me. I'll have to go back and read it more carefully now that I 
know what to look for. Thanks for the link.

We've heavy weather moving in so I'll likely not get out again until T. 
or W. now.   





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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[Chris Albertson]

I would stick with water.  it is cheap and has very high specific heat.  It
is really hard to beat water.

I had a water cooling system used to cool the hot side of a thermoelectric
module.  I used an old 50-gallon aquarium tank as the reservoir and for a
pump, I used an aquarium cartridge filter as the pump.   I figured that
anything coming out of that filter was only a few microns across and would
not harm the chiller.Even if the tank filled with green algae none of
it would get in the chiller.The water actually remained clear for
months.  I thought about putting goldfish in the tank.  Put then I'd have
to maintain the filter more.

I really do recommend using a filter.  But a big size pleated paper
cartridge sized so it can last over a year or two.  The tank stays clean

Why 50 gallons?  I wanted the water temperature to remain constant or at
least not change too quickly as the chiller used a PI control loop that
assumed a near-constant water temperature.   In a recirculating system you
have to look at how many watts are being dumped into theater and how fast
the tank water heats.   This system was designed to run s 8 hours at a
time.   It would gain only a few degrees in that time

Looking back on this project, others with similar equipment just used an
"open-loop" system of tap water.   The water came out of the tap through
the machine then into the flower bed outdoors.  The flow rate is low enough
in a cooling system not to worry about saving water.





On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 2:08 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 21:44, gene heskett  wrote:
>
> > I first started out with rv antifreeze, but it spoiled and jelled solid
>
> I think I would be tempted to try the waterless coolant that they sell
> for cars, though that would depend on how much was needed. It's not
> cheap.
>
> https://motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-waterless-coolant/
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[John Figie]

I wonder if Miller Industrial Supreme antifreeze/coolant would work, stock
no 043 810. I use it in my TIG cooler. I bought the stuff from a local
welding supply store and filled the radiator tank about 8 years ago. I
never changed it (they recommend yearly). Your message prompted me to look
in the tank and It looks maybe about 1/3 down from where I started. The
cooler has a sight glass so I never checked the actual level, I just
make sure I see flow when I start welding. The system is somewhat
sealed but not perfectly. The label says: "may be used in any system where
aluminum is NOT in the coolant path, but I think my radiator has aluminum
in it. The guy at the store insisted it was OK. So It seems to be working
and looking fine. There is no mold or stuff floating around in the tank and
the fluid is still clear. The welder has been in the un heated part of my
shop for at least 7 years. Now that my shop is bigger I moved the welder to
the heated part so technically I don't need antifreeze anymote. The back of
the label says it is a low conductivity  ethylene glycol base. I use it
full strength and it is rated to -37F

John Figie


On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 2:37 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that
> the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand hand
> on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was working. Its
> an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for aquariums and such. So I
> measure the nut to see how big a "pocket" to make to hold the nut.
>
> About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the top
> of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty warm, check
> the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of dirty grey mold
> sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it out so I put half a
> cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it so I can
> dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
>
> Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet. So
> what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile, non-corrosive and
> functional?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[dave engvall]

Cu inhibits algae and should do a decent job on most bacteria. So a bit 
of Cu sulfate.
Zn chloride and or ferrous chloride inhibits moss but the ferrous 
oxidizes to ferric and stains
siding/concrete so use the chloride. In a pinch just use a bit of 
Clorox; even peroxide should do the job.
If you can keep the mist away from your lungs you might try isopropyl 
alcohol.

HTH

Dave

On 1/16/22 1:42 PM, gene heskett wrote:

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:01:01 PM EST andrew beck wrote:

Why not just engine coolant

Is that what you are using?

I first started out with rv antifreeze, but it spoiled and jelled solid
couldn't even bore it out or blow it with 125 psi of air, plugging up the
first spindle motor in about 90 days, and If this $200 4 bearing motor is
plugged, I'll be looking for an air cooled version, 2 motors in 2 years
is not acceptable.

This was distilled water with about 2% water wetter & enough lysol
bathroom spray, 6 or so oz in 4 gallons to keep it sterile, I thought...
This is not a sealed system running at 250F so its not self sterilizing
like an auto system is. Its a sorta clear plastic document storage box
with a buckle down lid, holds about 5 gallons, is vermin & insect tight,
but not air tight.

Thanks Andrew.


On Mon, 17 Jan 2022, 09:37 gene heskett,  wrote:

I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted
that
the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand
hand on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was
working. Its an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for
aquariums and such. So I measure the nut to see how big a "pocket"
to make to hold the nut.

About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the
top of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty
warm, check the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of
dirty grey mold sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it
out so I put half a cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't
disconnected it so I can dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.

Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet.
So what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile,
non-corrosive and functional?


Cheers, Gene Heskett.




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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 21:44, gene heskett  wrote:

> I first started out with rv antifreeze, but it spoiled and jelled solid

I think I would be tempted to try the waterless coolant that they sell
for cars, though that would depend on how much was needed. It's not
cheap.
https://motocrossactionmag.com/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-waterless-coolant/

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:01:01 PM EST andrew beck wrote:
> Why not just engine coolant

Is that what you are using?

I first started out with rv antifreeze, but it spoiled and jelled solid 
couldn't even bore it out or blow it with 125 psi of air, plugging up the 
first spindle motor in about 90 days, and If this $200 4 bearing motor is 
plugged, I'll be looking for an air cooled version, 2 motors in 2 years 
is not acceptable.

This was distilled water with about 2% water wetter & enough lysol 
bathroom spray, 6 or so oz in 4 gallons to keep it sterile, I thought... 
This is not a sealed system running at 250F so its not self sterilizing 
like an auto system is. Its a sorta clear plastic document storage box 
with a buckle down lid, holds about 5 gallons, is vermin & insect tight, 
but not air tight.

Thanks Andrew.

> On Mon, 17 Jan 2022, 09:37 gene heskett,  wrote:
> > I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted
> > that
> > the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand
> > hand on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was
> > working. Its an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for
> > aquariums and such. So I measure the nut to see how big a "pocket"
> > to make to hold the nut.
> > 
> > About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the
> > top of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty
> > warm, check the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of
> > dirty grey mold sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it
> > out so I put half a cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't
> > disconnected it so I can dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
> > 
> > Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet.
> > So what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile,
> > non-corrosive and functional?
> > 

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[andrew beck]

Why not just engine coolant

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022, 09:37 gene heskett,  wrote:

> I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that
> the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand hand
> on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was working. Its
> an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for aquariums and such. So I
> measure the nut to see how big a "pocket" to make to hold the nut.
>
> About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the top
> of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty warm, check
> the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of dirty grey mold
> sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it out so I put half a
> cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it so I can
> dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.
>
> Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet. So
> what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile, non-corrosive and
> functional?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
>
>
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[Emc-users] motor coolant for water cooled spindles.

[gene heskett]

I just fired up the 6040 to make a pocket for a 3mm sq nut. Noted that 
the coolant tank was down about an inch from evaporation, but hand hand 
on the tank could feel the pump buzzing so I assumed it was working. Its 
an 80 gallon an hour submersible, probably for aquariums and such. So I 
measure the nut to see how big a "pocket" to make to hold the nut. 

About 90% done with that, I noted an air bubble in the hoses to the top 
of the motor was still there, feel the motor and it is pretty warm, check 
the tank, cold. Lift the lid and find about 1/8" of dirty grey mold 
sealing the top. So I'm back to trying to clean it out so I put half a 
cup of lysol bathroom spray in it. But haven't disconnected it so I can 
dump the tank in the back yard. Yet.

Obviously the modern lysol isn't the magic twanger to keep it sweet. So 
what do you folks use to keep a closed system sterile, non-corrosive and 
functional?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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