Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Robert Ellenberg]

Thanks Jeff, I loaded it up in a 4-axis sim config. I think my initial idea
is wrong about ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ, since all of the blending happens
between 4 axes (parabolic blends only).

Just for fun, here's both clips together:

http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJKNieuI6Hmo=0=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DS0re79zEX5A=11=rellenberg

It seems like it's running faster in your 2.7 video. Has the configuration
/ scale changed between those videos? It might sound better if it runs at
the same speed. For reference, on my test config, the program takes about
36 seconds on both 2.6 and 2.7.

Rob

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Jeff Epler  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:30:14PM +, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> > would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
> > take a look at the slow spots?
>
> A version of this program is in the sample nc_files as "daisy.ngc".
>
> It needs to be modified to run on a 3-axis machine, and only "sounds
> good" on a high-accel stepper machine with properly configured scales in
> the gcode.
>
> (set XYZA axis scales)
> O100 call [6400] [6400] [8000] [80]
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Tom Easterday]

Rob,
My file was a bit modified from the default.  But I think the reason for the 
change in speed in 2.7 is that G64 is selected (by default?) and so rather than 
play out to the ends of the timing values it blends to the next move and a) 
runs faster, and b) sounds different as it swoops into the next move rather 
than moving cleanly at a point.  I set G61 and now it slows down in 2.7 and 
sounds better as well.  I think G61 was in effect in the original video.  I 
also had originally set the scale on all three axes to be identical, whereas 
Jeff’s has the third (or fourth) axis in a different scale for harmony.  I 
played with that as well, so now my third axis is playing harmony.  I will send 
you my code and try to post a video tomorrow.  

I did learn about ARC_BLENDs though, thanks!  By the way there appears to be no 
documentation anywhere on that config parameter.  I finally found it buried in 
the source code in a directory with some tests.

I think I need to apply for a grant to get a roomful of cnc machines playing a 
symphony ;-)

-Tom



> On Oct 21, 2015, at 9:41 PM, Robert Ellenberg  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Jeff, I loaded it up in a 4-axis sim config. I think my initial idea
> is wrong about ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ, since all of the blending happens
> between 4 axes (parabolic blends only).
> 
> Just for fun, here's both clips together:
> 
> http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJKNieuI6Hmo=0=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DS0re79zEX5A=11=rellenberg
> 
> It seems like it's running faster in your 2.7 video. Has the configuration
> / scale changed between those videos? It might sound better if it runs at
> the same speed. For reference, on my test config, the program takes about
> 36 seconds on both 2.6 and 2.7.
> 
> Rob
> 
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Jeff Epler  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:30:14PM +, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
>>> would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
>>> take a look at the slow spots?
>> 
>> A version of this program is in the sample nc_files as "daisy.ngc".
>> 
>> It needs to be modified to run on a 3-axis machine, and only "sounds
>> good" on a high-accel stepper machine with properly configured scales in
>> the gcode.
>> 
>>(set XYZA axis scales)
>>O100 call [6400] [6400] [8000] [80]
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Robert Ellenberg]

Tom, have you tried playing with the ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ parameter in your
ini file? Increasing it from the default value of 20Hz up to 100Hz or even
1000Hz will make the trajectory planner more aggressive on short segments,
at the expense of more acceleration ripple for programs with lots of short
lines. If that doesn't fix it, would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
take a look at the slow spots?

Thanks,
Rob

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:48 PM Jerry Scharf  wrote:

> I'm hearing you. :)
>
> Sounds like the new planner has a lower acceleration rates so you don't get
> the good attack on pitch that sounds more musical. It's like using a slow
> slide whistle or trombone.
>
> Maybe increasing the acceleration rates might fix this critical issue.
>
> jerry
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Tom Easterday  wrote:
>
> > I’m just sayin’...
> >
> > New:
> > https://youtu.be/JKNieuI6Hmo
> >
> > Old:
> > https://youtu.be/S0re79zEX5A
> >
> > :-)
> > -Tom
> >
> > ps: Here is You Are My Sunshine.  I don’t have it playing on the 2.6 but
> > definitely sounded better before:  https://youtu.be/e1wu2cMpmMY <
> > https://www.youtube.com/upload>
> >
> >
> --
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jerry Scharf
> FINsix IT
> 650.285.6361 w
> 650.279.7017 m
>
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Tom Easterday]

I will give that a try Rob, I don’t think it is in my ini file at all IIRC.  My 
acceleration on the Z axis was set quite low so I brought that up to something 
reasonable today and it helped.  Though again, it is a direct comparison as 
those have been my settings under the previous (2.4-2.6) releases.   Will try 
ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ tomorrow.

By the way, this certainly isn’t a “critical application” of any sort but it is 
interesting to “hear” differences in the new code, and learn about new options 
(apparently)!
Thanks,
-Tom


> On Oct 19, 2015, at 7:30 PM, Robert Ellenberg  wrote:
> 
> Tom, have you tried playing with the ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ parameter in your
> ini file? Increasing it from the default value of 20Hz up to 100Hz or even
> 1000Hz will make the trajectory planner more aggressive on short segments,
> at the expense of more acceleration ripple for programs with lots of short
> lines. If that doesn't fix it, would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
> take a look at the slow spots?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rob
> 
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 5:48 PM Jerry Scharf  wrote:
> 
>> I'm hearing you. :)
>> 
>> Sounds like the new planner has a lower acceleration rates so you don't get
>> the good attack on pitch that sounds more musical. It's like using a slow
>> slide whistle or trombone.
>> 
>> Maybe increasing the acceleration rates might fix this critical issue.
>> 
>> jerry
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Tom Easterday  wrote:
>> 
>>> I’m just sayin’...
>>> 
>>> New:
>>> https://youtu.be/JKNieuI6Hmo
>>> 
>>> Old:
>>> https://youtu.be/S0re79zEX5A
>>> 
>>> :-)
>>> -Tom
>>> 
>>> ps: Here is You Are My Sunshine.  I don’t have it playing on the 2.6 but
>>> definitely sounded better before:  https://youtu.be/e1wu2cMpmMY <
>>> https://www.youtube.com/upload>
>>> 
>>> 
>> --
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jerry Scharf
>> FINsix IT
>> 650.285.6361 w
>> 650.279.7017 m
>> 
>> --
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Jeff Epler]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:30:14PM +, Robert Ellenberg wrote:
> would you mind sharing the g-code so I can
> take a look at the slow spots?

A version of this program is in the sample nc_files as "daisy.ngc".

It needs to be modified to run on a 3-axis machine, and only "sounds
good" on a high-accel stepper machine with properly configured scales in
the gcode.

(set XYZA axis scales)
O100 call [6400] [6400] [8000] [80]

Jeff

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Tom Easterday]

I’m just sayin’...

New:
https://youtu.be/JKNieuI6Hmo

Old:
https://youtu.be/S0re79zEX5A

:-)
-Tom

ps: Here is You Are My Sunshine.  I don’t have it playing on the 2.6 but 
definitely sounded better before:  https://youtu.be/e1wu2cMpmMY 

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 2.7.0, new trajectory planner, lost it's perfect pitch

[Jerry Scharf]

I'm hearing you. :)

Sounds like the new planner has a lower acceleration rates so you don't get
the good attack on pitch that sounds more musical. It's like using a slow
slide whistle or trombone.

Maybe increasing the acceleration rates might fix this critical issue.

jerry

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Tom Easterday  wrote:

> I’m just sayin’...
>
> New:
> https://youtu.be/JKNieuI6Hmo
>
> Old:
> https://youtu.be/S0re79zEX5A
>
> :-)
> -Tom
>
> ps: Here is You Are My Sunshine.  I don’t have it playing on the 2.6 but
> definitely sounded better before:  https://youtu.be/e1wu2cMpmMY <
> https://www.youtube.com/upload>
>
> --
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 
Jerry Scharf
FINsix IT
650.285.6361 w
650.279.7017 m
--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users