Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Andrew]

2017-03-30 8:12 GMT+03:00 Erik Christiansen:

> This one makes claims:
> http://hackaday.com/2017/03/25/mrrf-17-e3d-introduces-combin
> ation-extruder-and-hotend/
>
> Dunno how well the performance matches the sales spiel, though.
>

Titan first, then Aero... and they're almost back to the origins
http://www.geeetech.com/wiki/index.php/MK8_Extruder
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Erik Christiansen]

On 29.03.17 19:56, Bruce Layne wrote:
> I'd still like to finish that project but a lot has changed since then 
> in the fast moving 3D printer world, including much better extruders, so 
> it would require some time to learn and hack in some upgrades to 
> maximize reliability and print quality.

This one makes claims:
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/25/mrrf-17-e3d-introduces-combination-extruder-and-hotend/

Dunno how well the performance matches the sales spiel, though.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Bruce Layne]

This thread renewed my interest in 3D printing.  I bought the parts and 
did the mechanical assembly of a Hadron ORDbot a few years ago but 
wanted to do a nice electrical installation instead of the usual rat's 
nest wiring on most home brew 3D printers.  Then the complete kit became 
available and I wanted two for small run 3D printing production so I 
bought that, but never got a round tuit and both kits were boxed and 
stored.  I decided to do a shop renovation and build the mechanical 
assemblies into an insulated box on the wall that could be heated for 
better ABS prints, similar to a Stratasys commercial 3D printer, with 
the electronics mounted underneath out of the heat.

I'd still like to finish that project but a lot has changed since then 
in the fast moving 3D printer world, including much better extruders, so 
it would require some time to learn and hack in some upgrades to 
maximize reliability and print quality.

I think I've just about decided to buy the US$699 QIDI Tech I.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D8M32LU

Then upgrade the bed with the MagHold build plate and a spare removable 
flexible build plate.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0146ZCE1M
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019YG6YOQ

That looks like the fast path to get me into good reliable 3D printing 
for the occasional prototyping, and if it works well and I need more 
production capacity I can duplicate that order.

Instead of being on the bleeding edge as intended, I'll be one of the 
last geeks to jump on the 3D wagon before it's a common household 
appliance as companies like Dremel are trying to encourage.



On 03/29/2017 07:22 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> I bought the first one. I can always give it to my nieces if
> it's useless :-)
>


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers (Gregg Eshelman)

[andy pugh]

On 30 March 2017 at 00:06, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> The Select Mini Version 2 is supposed to be out sometime soon. It has 
> improvements like a cooling fan in the base.
> Here's a video showing the V2 updates. 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c43HVaiSF88

I don't seem to be able to find a UK source, though.
Anyway, I bought the first one. I can always give it to my nieces if
it's useless :-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers (Gregg Eshelman)

[Gregg Eshelman]

The Select Mini Version 2 is supposed to be out sometime soon. It has 
improvements like a cooling fan in the base.
Here's a video showing the V2 updates. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c43HVaiSF88
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, 2:36:53 AM MDT, John Alexander Stewart 
 wrote:Greg:

If you want inexpensive but good quality and compact, check out the
> Monoprice Select Mini. (AKA Malyan M200)
>

Very interesting - thank you for the pointer. I may have to re-think my "no
3D printer at home"...

John.
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 3/29/2017 10:52 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>
> Maybe contact Charles Steinkuehler first, as he is an active 
> 3D printer user and knows what is currently hot.
> There is a HUGE turnover in these things, and what was the 
> best design a couple months ago is now obsolete.

I'm no longer really "current" with the latest happenings in 3D
printing (it's moving *REALLY* fast), but the CRAMPS board I designed
(and Jon builds/sells) was used in a really cool full-color 3D printer
shown at this years Midwest RepRap Festival:

http://hackaday.com/2017/03/26/mrrf-17-true-color-3d-printing/

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20170328-arcus-3d-m1-evolves-from-junkstrap-into-full-color-3d-printer.html

> I'm still holding out for one that solidifies liquid 
> photosensitive polymer with a computer projector.  They can 
> do arbitrarily complex objects at the same speed as simple ones.

A bunch of patents have recently expired on SLS (Selective Laser
Sintering) processes, so look for some inexpensive and open-source
options in this field soon, to go with the SLA (Stereolithography)
resin based printers.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Chris Albertson]

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Erik Christiansen 
wrote:

>
> Where the 3D printer would be in front is forming nice fillets, as in
> the transition from a boss to its supporting surface, and inside a
> pulley rim, going to the spokes. With foam fabrication, it may be
> necessary to affix a square cross-section ring,


You forgot the #1 thing a 3D printer can do that your hot wire foam cutter
can't.   Let's say you want to cast a likeness of a bald eagle standing on
a ball.  Or a rose vine wrapped around a handle for a set of antique drawer
pulls and any other kind of decorative metal castings.

Decorative parts tend not to be geometric and many times they incorporate
likenesses of natural objects like animals and plants or even human faces
in relief.  My father had a collection of cast iron objects for the
1800's and early 1900's and most of these could not be made with a hot wire
cutter.  things like a bird cadge like string holder and very ornate legs
that were popular back then.  Like.ey a skilled word carver made the
patterns.  today I'd thing a 3D printer would be used.

You don't even have to get into decorative parts, look at the cast handle
of a utility knife.  There are no flat and no parallel sides and all the
curves are compound.






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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Jon Elson]

On 03/28/2017 09:48 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>
Maybe contact Charles Steinkuehler first, as he is an active 
3D printer user and knows what is currently hot.
There is a HUGE turnover in these things, and what was the 
best design a couple months ago is now obsolete.

I'm still holding out for one that solidifies liquid 
photosensitive polymer with a computer projector.  They can 
do arbitrarily complex objects at the same speed as simple ones.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers (Gregg Eshelman)

[John Alexander Stewart]

Greg:

If you want inexpensive but good quality and compact, check out the
> Monoprice Select Mini. (AKA Malyan M200)
>

Very interesting - thank you for the pointer. I may have to re-think my "no
3D printer at home"...

John.
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Dave Caroline]

Traditional pattern making was 3d built up, did not need subtractive
milling or 3d plastic printer

:)

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Les Newell]

Laying down even amounts of metal with a mig is surprisingly difficult. 
Many years I had to build up some shafts so I rigged up a setup in an 
old lathe with the torch clamped in the tool post. The problem I found 
was that if you get a high spot you end up depositing more metal on the 
high spot than the lower spots. This makes sense because as the high 
spot approaches the nozzle you will deposit more wire and as it moves 
away you will deposit less wire. As I had to turn the shafts back down 
to size it didn't really matter but it certainly wasn't pretty.

Les

On 28/03/2017 17:24, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> I'm confused about not owning one either.
> I keep looking at the items made, at trade shows, and in plastic it all
> looks like junk. Good for fridge magnets mostly.
> But they're so popular. I must be missing something...
>
> Metal printing on the other hand, would be very useful, but the cost of
> powders is high.
>
> Far more useful would be a 'printer' using a mig welder (instead of laser),
> to lay down metal for further machining.
> eg;
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaIOrQi2HLM
>
> Roland


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Erik Christiansen]

On 28.03.17 15:48, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?

Not having been motivated to dip my toe yet, due mostly to reports of
mediocre performance, my prime observation of that offering is that it
would be useless here, due to: "Supported Operating Systems: Windows/Mac"

If the intended use is producing low density "lost plastic" casting
patterns, then precision is not mandatory, ultra-strong inter-layer
adhesion is not required, smoothness of surface finish need only be
barely average, and peeling from the substrate might be reduced as the
honeycomb of thin filament builds less cooling stresses. (Guessing on
that last one.) And printing a lot of air has to be less glacial than a
solid print.

I still think I'll finish the hot-wire cutter I welded up a column for,
and try the "lost polystyrene" method. Quite complex patterns can be
fabricated from layers of sheet polystyrene, and an occasional drop of
PVA glue is all that's needed to hold it all together long enough to
prepare the sand mould.

Where the 3D printer would be in front is forming nice fillets, as in
the transition from a boss to its supporting surface, and inside a
pulley rim, going to the spokes. With foam fabrication, it may be
necessary to affix a square cross-section ring, then cut half of it away
with a little loop of hot wire as turning tool. That is, of course, an
excuse to build a low voltage control unit for the short length of
Nichrome wire, and more down my street than kicking a 3D printer which
is being finicky. (As well as slooow)

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2017-03-28 at 15:48 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
> 


http://vertex3dprinter.eu/



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[MC Cason]

On 03/28/2017 06:07 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 28 March 2017 at 23:54, MC Cason  wrote:
>> I can envision a future where you see something on whatever
>> future version of the internet is, you order it, and it is built in your
>> home manufacturing unit.  Instant gratification at it's finest.
>> However, a LOT of improvement has to be done before this can happen.
> "Rule 34" by Charles Stross is set in such a future. It's a very good
> book. (but then, everything by Stross is)

   I'll have to look that one up.  I'm a hard SF fan, anything from 
Arthur C Clarke, Larry Niven, and others.


-- 
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Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[bari]

Maybe something that uses pellets vs filament and has a large nozzle:
http://www.titan3drobotics.com/pellet-extrusion-3d-printing-on-the-atlas/

https://i0.wp.com/dev.titan3drobotics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/engine-block-edit.jpg

33 hours for that print

On 03/28/2017 09:48 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Gregg Eshelman]

If you want inexpensive but good quality and compact, check out the Monoprice 
Select Mini. (AKA Malyan M200) There's a Facebook group for it with over 5,000 
members, many of which have two or more of the printers.
It comes fully assembled out of the box, mostly steel construction and weighs 
over 16 pounds. There's a large number of mods for it posted to the Facebook 
group and thingiverse, most of them printable on the printer.
Price? Well below $200 USD
Early units suffered from really dodgy power supplies that would just up and 
die, or in a few cases had components blow up. The current supply seems to be 
better quality but many owners still opt to replace it, often with a simple 
hack to a Xbox 360 brick, the grey ones for the white Xbox.
Mine has way more than paid for itself. I printed and sold some replacement 
parts for Brother knitting machines.
Another job I used it for was a one-off, making some knobs for an antique car. 
I designed and printed them, then filled with urethane resin. Shipped them to 
the restoration shop which primed,filled and finish painted the outsides. I got 
$500 for that and the turnaround was far faster than making smooth finished 
prototypes, making silicone molds then casting solid urethane knobs. I also 
designed and printed fixtures to hold metal rods and bolts in the knobs for 
forming mounting holes in the resin, and made clamping blocks to hold the knobs 
in a vise for drilling the holes out to finished size.
Being able to design your own 3D items is the core thing for 3D printers. If 
you just need a few things made, it's easier and cheaper to pay someone else to 
print them.
Here's the things I've released publicly. A couple are modifications of other 
people's things.http://www.thingiverse.com/Galane/designs
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 3/28/2017 6:01 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 28 March 2017 at 23:49, Charles Steinkuehler
>  wrote:
>> you may need to
>> reprogram the controller with an open-source firmware and switch to
>> using a standard slicer vs. the one that comes with it.
> 
> I have already written one slicer (runs inside Autodesk Inventor,
> skips the STL stage to avoid faceting)

Like I said, I think you'll be fine on the SW side of things.  ;-)

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[andy pugh]

On 28 March 2017 at 23:54, MC Cason  wrote:
> I can envision a future where you see something on whatever
> future version of the internet is, you order it, and it is built in your
> home manufacturing unit.  Instant gratification at it's finest.
> However, a LOT of improvement has to be done before this can happen.

"Rule 34" by Charles Stross is set in such a future. It's a very good
book. (but then, everything by Stross is)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[andy pugh]

On 28 March 2017 at 23:49, Charles Steinkuehler
 wrote:
> you may need to
> reprogram the controller with an open-source firmware and switch to
> using a standard slicer vs. the one that comes with it.

I have already written one slicer (runs inside Autodesk Inventor,
skips the STL stage to avoid faceting)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[MC Cason]

On 03/28/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> I see the argument as going like this
>
> One group says these 3d printers are worthless because they can't be used
> to make the stuff I am now making.   For example  "I can't print an exhaust
> valve for a diesel truck motor."
>
> The second group sees the printers and thinks about using it for new
> products, making things that can't be made at present,  This group finds
> these printers to be much more useful.
>
> My interest in printing is making machines that can be precision work but
> where the machine itself is very non-precision.  Think about a task like a
> robot arm that can pick up a bolt and nut from two bins of loose parts and
> then thread the bolt into the nut.   Can such a robot machine be made with
> cheap plastic parts for under $100?   I don't know yet but "maybe"
>   Humans hands are not precision machine tools but we use feedback to do
> precision work so there is hope a robot machine could work like that.SO
> just ONE example of serious work can cane done with a cheap 3D printer,
> search into precision materials handing.
>
> Cheap robots that can do precision light assembly work will put millions of
> Chinese factory works out of work and allow those iPhone factories to move
> out ofChina to the US or Europe but my example task, assembling a bolt into
> a nut from loose parts bin is really hard so those people need not worry.

   What you are suggesting is already available today.  Marry that robot 
to a pair of vibratory sorters, and dump your screws into one, and your 
nuts into another.  Then, the vibratory sorters will orient the parts, 
check for over and under size, and make everything that passes, 
available to the robot in a known location.  After that, it is simply a 
software issue to make it work.  With a bit more complexity, a single 
vibratory sorter could be used.

   I was working on vibratory sorters in the early '90s.  The technology 
is much older than that.


> So, 3D printers work well only when the task is matched to their
> capabilities, no surprise there.
>
> Another use for printer-like machines and robot assembly is the comping
> "post industrial revolution"   In the pre-industrial days when you bought a
> pair of shoes or a shirt, you would be measured and the sod custom made
> just for you.  Your clothing would fit well and be just what you wanted,
> assuming you could pay.  Most couldn't.   Then came mass productions and
> and standard sizing and everyone got cheap, but maybe not what you want or
> in the exact size you need.  But cheap is good so we put up with it.The
> next phase is going back to the 1600's where everything is custom made just
> for you one off special.It will happen.  For the consumer it will be
> better, Everything will fit perfect and be in the color and style you want
> and for the retailer there is not inventory cost.   Al of the jobs in this
> new economy pay better too.  No now has to work for $2 per hour in a
> Chinese facility.It might be only 50 years away, some people here may
> live to see it.
>
> These 3D printers are the leading edge of this new economy.   They work
> poorly, but think of automobiles in the 1880's they were horrible and not
> practical at all.  Only for rich people hobby driving.  Only 70 years later
> we built the US interstate hi way system.   We are in the 1880's now with
> respect to the new post industrial economy, 3D printing is still mostly a
> rich man's hobby.

   Think of a 3D printer as a early version of a Star Trek replicator.  
Everything has to start somewhere, and we are the technological guinea 
pigs.  I can envision a future where you see something on whatever 
future version of the internet is, you order it, and it is built in your 
home manufacturing unit.  Instant gratification at it's finest.  
However, a LOT of improvement has to be done before this can happen.

-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 3/28/2017 9:48 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?

I haven't seen that one before (but there are *LOTS* of new 3D
printers so that's not too unusual).  It looks like a pretty decent
Replicator clone, but based on some online reviews you may need to
reprogram the controller with an open-source firmware and switch to
using a standard slicer vs. the one that comes with it.  I probably
wouldn't recommend this to someone who's not computer savvy, but it
looks like the hardware is OK and I'm pretty sure you can handle
updating the firmware and toolchain if needed (I saw some reviews
where the printer came up with a proprietary UI in Chinese, but it
looks like current versions may come with standard open-source builds).

I do have friends who have purchased official and/or built their own
version of this Replicator printer, and it's a pretty decent design
that seems to work well overall.  There are also a *LOT* of available
add-ons and upgrades since this design (unlike later Makerbot designs)
is open-source:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:18813

Disclaimer: Makerbot owns Thingiverse

...if you want a printer from a company that *REALLY* supports
open-source, I can recommend Lulzbot without hesitation, but they're
also substantially more expensive than the CTC printer.  :-/

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[MC Cason]

   That same one can be had on Ebay, for $154, with free US based shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/332158713527

   If you are a minimalist, there's a version for $1.00 less:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112220106379?var=412749117925&autorefresh=true

On 03/28/2017 11:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> xxcoder and I have one of these which goes on sale tomorrow for $196
>
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Full-Metal-Frame-3D-Printer-Professional-3d-Color-Printer-with-8GB-SD-Card-LCD-One-Roll/32705186296.html
>
> It does need a bit of TLC in some areas but seems to print OK. It is a
> Prusa i3 clone. I did replace the extruder with a nicer one. The bowden
> tube works OK but I understand the extruder connected to the hot end is
> a better arraignment.
>
> The one you linked looks better than the Prusa i3 clone I have.
>
> JT

-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] 3D printers

[James Isaac]

> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 18:17:31 +0100
> From: andy pugh 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

>

> On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
> > The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > (or usually both together).
>
> My intended application is making foundry patterns, to be cast in iron or 
> brass.
>
> It is an alternative to having my milling machine churning away on
> stacks of MDF for hours on end.
> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Holbrook03%20Pattern%20Making
>
> --
> atp


The eBay shop description went on about their tech, which they are proud of.


The bed leveling:

  1.  I suggest starting a print off real slow.

The head has no sensors on it, so it does not know when it has ruined a part.

  2.  Put down an extra thick “basement” under your part. Instant (cheap + 
consistent) level!

(Other people will have different guidance around finicky starting glitches).


Form creation. Like lost wax?

Low temperature plastics have been burnt out of molds before.

If you need more precision in dimensions, you could mill the plastic down.

I am sure you remember being told about the material specific rulers that mold 
makers have.


Once you have the plastic form, for a high value part,

you could do a test mold out of plaster,

- If you have good parting lines on the plastic form - ,

and see if a (plastic / plaster) cast, using the temporary plaster mold,

has the appropriate result.


Looks: I suspect all glossy prints have had the edges,

(where the Z increased in height), smoothed out.

Acetone, (flammable), to melt the plastic, in a coffee can plus heat = be 
cautious.

Yet instructions and videos are on the web.


James Isaac.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Ralph Stirling]

The DMG-Mori combined powdered metal/laser AM
and 5-axis CNC machining is very cool, but something
close to $1M for the system.  There are some efforts
being made at wire-fed welder AM systems.  I met a
fellow from such a company at a 3d printing conference
two weeks ago.  He was lugging around a steel part
they had made.  It was conical, built on a small square
of steel and about a foot tall.  It had a pretty uneven
surface, so definitely needed some post machining.

That company is called Plus Manufacturing (plus-mfg.com).
I don't know what their system will cost but should be
a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than the DMG-Mori/
Fraunhofer laser system.  The part I saw may have been
the one in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-K83fEZrw0

-- Ralph

From: Roland Jollivet [roland.jolli...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:24 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users]  3D Printers

I'm confused about not owning one either.
I keep looking at the items made, at trade shows, and in plastic it all
looks like junk. Good for fridge magnets mostly.
But they're so popular. I must be missing something...

Metal printing on the other hand, would be very useful, but the cost of
powders is high.

Far more useful would be a 'printer' using a mig welder (instead of laser),
to lay down metal for further machining.
eg;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaIOrQi2HLM

Roland



On 28 March 2017 at 16:48, andy pugh  wrote:

> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I think the cake is a little bit funny and it also taste good but it is not the 
best cake around.


On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 12:25:41 -0700
Chris Albertson  wrote:

> I see the argument as going like this
> 
> One group says these 3d printers are worthless because they can't be used
> to make the stuff I am now making.   For example  "I can't print an exhaust
> valve for a diesel truck motor."
> 
> The second group sees the printers and thinks about using it for new
> products, making things that can't be made at present,  This group finds
> these printers to be much more useful.
> 
> My interest in printing is making machines that can be precision work but
> where the machine itself is very non-precision.  Think about a task like a
> robot arm that can pick up a bolt and nut from two bins of loose parts and
> then thread the bolt into the nut.   Can such a robot machine be made with
> cheap plastic parts for under $100?   I don't know yet but "maybe"
>  Humans hands are not precision machine tools but we use feedback to do
> precision work so there is hope a robot machine could work like that.SO
> just ONE example of serious work can cane done with a cheap 3D printer,
> search into precision materials handing.
> 
> Cheap robots that can do precision light assembly work will put millions of
> Chinese factory works out of work and allow those iPhone factories to move
> out ofChina to the US or Europe but my example task, assembling a bolt into
> a nut from loose parts bin is really hard so those people need not worry.
> 
> So, 3D printers work well only when the task is matched to their
> capabilities, no surprise there.
> 
> Another use for printer-like machines and robot assembly is the comping
> "post industrial revolution"   In the pre-industrial days when you bought a
> pair of shoes or a shirt, you would be measured and the sod custom made
> just for you.  Your clothing would fit well and be just what you wanted,
> assuming you could pay.  Most couldn't.   Then came mass productions and
> and standard sizing and everyone got cheap, but maybe not what you want or
> in the exact size you need.  But cheap is good so we put up with it.The
> next phase is going back to the 1600's where everything is custom made just
> for you one off special.It will happen.  For the consumer it will be
> better, Everything will fit perfect and be in the color and style you want
> and for the retailer there is not inventory cost.   Al of the jobs in this
> new economy pay better too.  No now has to work for $2 per hour in a
> Chinese facility.It might be only 50 years away, some people here may
> live to see it.
> 
> These 3D printers are the leading edge of this new economy.   They work
> poorly, but think of automobiles in the 1880's they were horrible and not
> practical at all.  Only for rich people hobby driving.  Only 70 years later
> we built the US interstate hi way system.   We are in the 1880's now with
> respect to the new post industrial economy, 3D printing is still mostly a
> rich man's hobby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Nicklas Karlsson <
> nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of
> > > curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My
> > > experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky
> > > and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when
> > > something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW).
> > > This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion
> > > due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > > (or usually both together).
> > >
> > > Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed
> > > motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with
> > > ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the
> > > head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the
> > > machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea
> > > in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off
> > > the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.
> > >
> > > I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but
> > > IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become
> > > really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine
> > > I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.
> >
> > In sweden we have a kind of cake that have been 3D printed for a long time
> > http://sv.visitskane.com/sites/default/files/styles/
> > article_popup/public/field/image/spettekaka.jpg?itok=wPnZiQfK
> >
> > ---

Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[Chris Albertson]

I see the argument as going like this

One group says these 3d printers are worthless because they can't be used
to make the stuff I am now making.   For example  "I can't print an exhaust
valve for a diesel truck motor."

The second group sees the printers and thinks about using it for new
products, making things that can't be made at present,  This group finds
these printers to be much more useful.

My interest in printing is making machines that can be precision work but
where the machine itself is very non-precision.  Think about a task like a
robot arm that can pick up a bolt and nut from two bins of loose parts and
then thread the bolt into the nut.   Can such a robot machine be made with
cheap plastic parts for under $100?   I don't know yet but "maybe"
 Humans hands are not precision machine tools but we use feedback to do
precision work so there is hope a robot machine could work like that.SO
just ONE example of serious work can cane done with a cheap 3D printer,
search into precision materials handing.

Cheap robots that can do precision light assembly work will put millions of
Chinese factory works out of work and allow those iPhone factories to move
out ofChina to the US or Europe but my example task, assembling a bolt into
a nut from loose parts bin is really hard so those people need not worry.

So, 3D printers work well only when the task is matched to their
capabilities, no surprise there.

Another use for printer-like machines and robot assembly is the comping
"post industrial revolution"   In the pre-industrial days when you bought a
pair of shoes or a shirt, you would be measured and the sod custom made
just for you.  Your clothing would fit well and be just what you wanted,
assuming you could pay.  Most couldn't.   Then came mass productions and
and standard sizing and everyone got cheap, but maybe not what you want or
in the exact size you need.  But cheap is good so we put up with it.The
next phase is going back to the 1600's where everything is custom made just
for you one off special.It will happen.  For the consumer it will be
better, Everything will fit perfect and be in the color and style you want
and for the retailer there is not inventory cost.   Al of the jobs in this
new economy pay better too.  No now has to work for $2 per hour in a
Chinese facility.It might be only 50 years away, some people here may
live to see it.

These 3D printers are the leading edge of this new economy.   They work
poorly, but think of automobiles in the 1880's they were horrible and not
practical at all.  Only for rich people hobby driving.  Only 70 years later
we built the US interstate hi way system.   We are in the 1880's now with
respect to the new post industrial economy, 3D printing is still mostly a
rich man's hobby.




On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Nicklas Karlsson <
nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of
> > curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My
> > experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky
> > and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when
> > something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW).
> > This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion
> > due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > (or usually both together).
> >
> > Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed
> > motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with
> > ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the
> > head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the
> > machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea
> > in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off
> > the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.
> >
> > I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but
> > IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become
> > really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine
> > I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.
>
> In sweden we have a kind of cake that have been 3D printed for a long time
> http://sv.visitskane.com/sites/default/files/styles/
> article_popup/public/field/image/spettekaka.jpg?itok=wPnZiQfK
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-

Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Charles Buckley]

Not sure if anyone would be interested, but in about 11 hours, Aliexpress
is having a sale. I am seeing some 3D printers listed.



On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Charles Buckley 
wrote:

> Pretty sure those are belt driven, not screw driven.
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:14 AM, jrmitchellj . 
> wrote:
>
>> Kind of small.
>> ACME leadscrews instead of ballscrews
>> Not much detail on the build platform (other than thickness)
>>
>> Probably OK for  a learning experience & making small toys.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
>> jrmitche...@gmail.com
>> (818)324-7573
>>
>>
>> The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
>> occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the
>> occasion.
>> As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must
>> disenthrall
>> ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
>> *, *Annual message
>> to Congress, December 1, 1862*
>> *16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 7:48 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>>
>> > I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
>> > I am thinking of buying one.
>> > Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
>> > so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
>> > looking at:
>> > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
>> > Any thoughts?
>> >
>> > --
>> > atp
>> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> > lunatics."
>> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>> >
>> > 
>> > --
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Charles Buckley]

Pretty sure those are belt driven, not screw driven.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:14 AM, jrmitchellj . 
wrote:

> Kind of small.
> ACME leadscrews instead of ballscrews
> Not much detail on the build platform (other than thickness)
>
> Probably OK for  a learning experience & making small toys.
>
> Ray
>
> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> jrmitche...@gmail.com
> (818)324-7573
>
>
> The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
> occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
> As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
> ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
> *, *Annual message
> to Congress, December 1, 1862*
> *16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 7:48 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> > I am thinking of buying one.
> > Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> > so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> > looking at:
> > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[hubert]

Andy

I own two 3d printers, and have had mixed results.  The second one 
looked like a bargain but was made out of plywood and firmly etched in 
my mind the advantage of metal.  My first one was a single extruder 
model made out of aluminum and plastic.  Later revisions are replacing 
even more parts with metal.  Larger parts are more demanding on machine 
and environment.  The cooling process can make the parts curl away from 
the platform.  You may want to shield the part being made from 
extraneous air currents, so that may make box shaped printers 
attractive.To get experience you don't need dual head or large size 
but for long term repeatable results you do need the rigidity of metal.

I did make an ar15 lower model with mine that lasted for 4 rounds.  
Even then it was not a catastrophic failure it just showed a stress 
point that modern polymer lowers now use an embedded metal part to solve 
the problem.  It can be used to give you 3d check of a model, just don't 
expect long life, unless you design the model knowing the limitations of 
the materials.  The second machine didn't last though my wife's tree 
ornament project.   Unfortunately, I got ambitious and started to 
upgrade the first machine, which  had produced the better models.   Life 
got in the way and it is still unfinished and collecting dust.


On 3/28/17 12:46 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:17 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
>>> The prints also aren't that strong. If you
>>> put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
>>> stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
>>> (or usually both together).
>
> The thing about 2D printing is that it does not work well if you are making
> replacement parts for an existing product.   The original parts were likely
> of metal or a stronger kind of plastic but where 3D printing works well is
> for new designs where you design the part knowing the properties of the
> material.For example if printing a design that uses timing belts, you'd
> use a wider belt them if using aluminum pulleys.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Ken Strauss]

PVC foam moulding might be another option:
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.1-inch-x-4-inch-x-8-feet-veranda-pvc-trim-board-white.1000761916.html
You can make large blocks by glueing 1x4 or 1x6 pieces with PVC glue. I've 
been using it as an alternative to machineable wax. It is more dimensionally 
stable than MDF and can be milled at high speed. I don't see why it wouldn't 
work as a pattern. Attached is a photo of a friend's work using the foam.


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:18 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers
>
> On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
> > The prints also aren't that strong. If you put enough time into it you
> > can get some good results but most of the stuff I want to make either
> > needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate (or usually both
> > together).
>
> My intended application is making foundry patterns, to be cast in iron or
> brass.
>
> It is an alternative to having my milling machine churning away on stacks of
> MDF for hours on end.
> http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Holbrook03%20Pattern%20Maki
> ng
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
> tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[dannym]

Parts can be quite strong. Although, I've seen plenty of prints with a bad 
layer (can be as simple as the air conditioning kicking in and shrinking the 
plastic suddenly).

You can print out objects that would be difficult to mill, such as things 
requiring 5-axis milling, exotic holddown solutions, or very deep features, 
inaccessible features, or would have bit radius problems, or would require 
excessive stock.  

When set up correctly 3D printing is much more straightforward.  e.g. a child 
can download a Sonic the Hedgehog file and make it without bit selection, 
holddown solutions, or any complicated CAM.

What's crazy is printing fully functional complex 3d machines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDE4vWX6Dz8

Many 3d print heads use 3D printed components like the tractor-gear.  This is a 
difficult shape to machine otherwise.  It's functional for the "long haul", not 
just a prototype that'll break too soon for real use.

Danny




 Chris Albertson  wrote: 
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:17 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> > On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
> > > The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > > (or usually both together).
> 
> 
> The thing about 2D printing is that it does not work well if you are making
> replacement parts for an existing product.   The original parts were likely
> of metal or a stronger kind of plastic but where 3D printing works well is
> for new designs where you design the part knowing the properties of the
> material.For example if printing a design that uses timing belts, you'd
> use a wider belt them if using aluminum pulleys.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 10:17 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
> > The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> > put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> > stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> > (or usually both together).


The thing about 2D printing is that it does not work well if you are making
replacement parts for an existing product.   The original parts were likely
of metal or a stronger kind of plastic but where 3D printing works well is
for new designs where you design the part knowing the properties of the
material.For example if printing a design that uses timing belts, you'd
use a wider belt them if using aluminum pulleys.

-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers.

[andy pugh]

On 28 March 2017 at 18:31, John Alexander Stewart  wrote:
> Do you really need a 3D printer?

No, nor do I need a lathe or milling machine, I could get parts made
by machine shops. Or simply not bother making stuff at all.

-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers.

[John Alexander Stewart]

I've got a 3D printer here, a PrintrBot Simple, wooden one.

The city library has a set of printers and laser cutters. I think I'd use
that. Current project, drawing up some parts that will get printed at the
library or at Shapeways.

Do you really need a 3D printer?  I don't - my Printrbot is sitting on a
shelf as a bit of art work, kind of looks steam-punky. ;-)

(I build model live steam locomotives, and, plastic and hot coal and steam
might not work too well, but your application may be perfect)

John
​
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[andy pugh]

On 28 March 2017 at 17:18, Les Newell  wrote:
> The prints also aren't that strong. If you
> put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the
> stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate
> (or usually both together).

My intended application is making foundry patterns, to be cast in iron or brass.

It is an alternative to having my milling machine churning away on
stacks of MDF for hours on end.
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Holbrook03%20Pattern%20Making

-- 
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"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers -> 3D printed cake

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of 
> curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My 
> experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky 
> and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when 
> something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW). 
> This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion 
> due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you 
> put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the 
> stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate 
> (or usually both together).
> 
> Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed 
> motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with 
> ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the 
> head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the 
> machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea 
> in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off 
> the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.
> 
> I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but 
> IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become 
> really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine 
> I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.

In sweden we have a kind of cake that have been 3D printed for a long time 
http://sv.visitskane.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_popup/public/field/image/spettekaka.jpg?itok=wPnZiQfK

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[TJoseph Powderly]

On Tuesday 28 March 2017 10:48:18 andy pugh wrote:
>> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
>> I am thinking of buying one.
>> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
>> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
>> looking at:
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
>> Any thoughts?
>

Andy,
Why dont you add an extruder to an existing machine?
I'm sure you have cnc machines already.

The extruder could be swapped for a spindle.

I read that people slow 3D printers down to 30-60mm/sec to get better 
prints,
so...
can you get 1.8 to 3.5m/min?
or is that the reason people dont do this?

also,
would you use Linuxcnc to control what you do end up getting?

I was considering putting an extruder on my table top just to model some 
ideas.


Jepler's (?) recommended unit is hard to find but soon to be back in 
stock in USA

https://emergent.unpythonic.net/01479582514

MP Select Mini 3D Printer
Product # 15365
$199.99
Out of stock ETA: 4/16/2017

tomp tjtr33

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Les Newell]

I have one that is very similar and I bought it pretty much out of 
curiosity. It sits in the corner of my office gathering dust. My 
experience with 3D printing was pretty underwhelming. It is very finicky 
and the results aren't that great. It gets pretty frustrating when 
something goes wrong 4 or 5 hours into a print (3D printing is SLOOW). 
This type of 3D printing is pretty inaccurate and prone to distortion 
due to uneven cooling etc. The prints also aren't that strong. If you 
put enough time into it you can get some good results but most of the 
stuff I want to make either needs to be strong or dimensionally accurate 
(or usually both together).

Mechanically these machines aren't bad for the money. The filament feed 
motors are a bit under powered and can struggle to feed, especially with 
ABS or nylon. The filament is supposed to be fed through a tube to the 
head but I found it works much better to mount a roller above the 
machine and pass the filament over that. Having two heads is a nice idea 
in theory but I found the second head can sometimes knock your part off 
the table. I ended up removing the extruder nozzle on the second head.

I don't regret getting mine. It was an interesting learning exercise but 
IMHO hobby level 3D printing has a long way to go before it will become 
really useful. If you are serious about building a large format machine 
I would definitely suggest getting something like this first.

Les


On 28/03/2017 15:48, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>


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[Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Roland Jollivet]

I'm confused about not owning one either.
I keep looking at the items made, at trade shows, and in plastic it all
looks like junk. Good for fridge magnets mostly.
But they're so popular. I must be missing something...

Metal printing on the other hand, would be very useful, but the cost of
powders is high.

Far more useful would be a 'printer' using a mig welder (instead of laser),
to lay down metal for further machining.
eg;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaIOrQi2HLM

Roland



On 28 March 2017 at 16:48, andy pugh  wrote:

> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[dannym]

I have done relatively little 3D printing myself.  I do run a community 
hackerspace with a number of 3D printers, most of which are broken.
Many, many cheap 3D printers just can't work out of the box.  Badly designed 
linear axes, terrible ratsnest of wiring, extruder designs that do nothing but 
jam, no good way to level the table.  Driver chips that burn out regularly.

The one with a unique reputation of working consistently is Lulzbot.  It's 
notably more expensive, but it does actually work reliably and is very capable. 
 Lulzbot TAZ 6 is a BIG print area and can be had used/refurb for like 
$1800-$2000.

Danny

 andy pugh  wrote: 
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
I am thinking of buying one.
Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
looking at:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
Any thoughts?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 28 March 2017 10:48:18 andy pugh wrote:

> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?

Looks like an excellent machine for the money Andy, and it can handle 
several kinds of plastic, 2 colors at a time.  I am impressed. The tech 
moves fast, a year ago that would have been a coarser laydown, and 3x as 
much green paper missing from my wallet, sitting in a box on my front 
deck. When I get done with this Sheldon conversion, I'll possibly be 
looking for something similar.  Toe dipping indeed, this reads like a 
serious machine.  You I expect, are way ahead of me in laying out 3d 
stuff for castings and such. But at 250x150x150, I could make one piece 
belt guards and such for this Sheldon, without haveing to make up the 
plaster molds & con our local foundry into  pouring them. Definite like. 
I wonder what the USD price is?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[John Thornton]

xxcoder and I have one of these which goes on sale tomorrow for $196

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Full-Metal-Frame-3D-Printer-Professional-3d-Color-Printer-with-8GB-SD-Card-LCD-One-Roll/32705186296.html

It does need a bit of TLC in some areas but seems to print OK. It is a 
Prusa i3 clone. I did replace the extruder with a nicer one. The bowden 
tube works OK but I understand the extruder connected to the hot end is 
a better arraignment.

The one you linked looks better than the Prusa i3 clone I have.

JT


On 3/28/2017 9:48 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Gary Crowell]

That's a clone of a Flashforge, which is a clone of the Makerbot Replicator
(old Replicator, not the new one which they also oddly called the
Replicator).  It's upgraded in some ways, possibly downgraded in others.
But it is known to work pretty well.  My original Replicator is still
excellent after four (5?) years.

If it has plastic arms supporting the print platform, the first thing you
do is replace those with metal.

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Andrew  wrote:

> 2017-03-28 17:48 GMT+03:00 andy pugh:
>
> > I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> > I am thinking of buying one.
> > Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> > so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> > looking at:
> > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> > Any thoughts?
> >
>
> Not sure about that particular model quality, but it looks like a common 3D
> printer.
> It has nothing that you can't adjust or repair, so it should be OK.
> Ballscrews are not really nesessary there. It has belts for XY, and 8mm
> leadscrew for Z.
> The platform is usually wonky in these type of printers.
>
> I've built two deltas, one of which is pretty large (450x750mm workspace)
> and enclosed.
> The smaller works with a simple Mega+RAMPS, the larger has Duet WiFi
> controller - the best at the moment (and BTW made in UK).
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[Andrew]

2017-03-28 17:48 GMT+03:00 andy pugh:

> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>

Not sure about that particular model quality, but it looks like a common 3D
printer.
It has nothing that you can't adjust or repair, so it should be OK.
Ballscrews are not really nesessary there. It has belts for XY, and 8mm
leadscrew for Z.
The platform is usually wonky in these type of printers.

I've built two deltas, one of which is pretty large (450x750mm workspace)
and enclosed.
The smaller works with a simple Mega+RAMPS, the larger has Duet WiFi
controller - the best at the moment (and BTW made in UK).
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Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printers

[jrmitchellj .]

Kind of small.
ACME leadscrews instead of ballscrews
Not much detail on the build platform (other than thickness)

Probably OK for  a learning experience & making small toys.

Ray

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 7:48 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
> I am thinking of buying one.
> Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
> so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
> looking at:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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[Emc-users] 3D Printers

[andy pugh]

I find myself astonished that I don't have a 3D printer.
I am thinking of buying one.
Longer-term I think I will end up making a large-format delta pritner,
so the one I buy will be more ot a toe-dipping exercise, and I am
looking at:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182454763977
Any thoughts?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

--
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engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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