Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction, various other subjects

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 2/23/2016 3:54 AM, andy pugh wrote:

> I am talking about a single can of MAPP as a hotter alternative to
> Butane or Profane.

I suspect there was plenty of such language in Taiwan on the evening of 
July 31, 2014 when nearly 4 tons of propene that had leaked into the 
storm drains of Kaohsiung exploded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kaohsiung_gas_explosions

Yes, there are plenty of videos, mostly from cell phones and dashcams. 
Around six kilometers of road were destroyed along with around 1,500 
business destroyed or damaged. Fortunately due to the late hour, there 
were only 32 deaths and 321 non-fatal injuries.

Until I stumbled over one of the videos yesterday on Youtube, I had no 
idea that had happened. They don't mention some things like that in the 
news here.

Or is Profane the gas used in torches that never burn hot enough or 
always goes out when you get the flame adjusted just right? ;)

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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction, various other subjects

[andy pugh]

On 23 February 2016 at 09:59, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>> I would imagine that you can do it with the Bernz-o-matic, but you
>> would need to be using MAPP gas and a firebrick hearth.
>
> Funny thing about mapp gas + the yellow oxygen, I bought 2 each and a
> micro-torch, found the valves were uncontrollable and put it on the
> shelf including the un-tapped cans.

I am talking about a single can of MAPP as a hotter alternative to
Butane or Profane.

> This seems like it might be a use case for a prince albert can full of
> bone meal and a blacksmiths charcoal forge.

Shouldn't need bone-meal. A2 is an air-hardening tool steel.

You might find this interesting:
http://bodgesoc.blogspot.de/2014/06/forge.html

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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction, various other subjects

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 23 February 2016 04:21:11 andy pugh wrote:

> On 23 February 2016 at 02:59, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > I looked in the handbook, I made the cutter out of A2, which needs
> > 1700-1800F for first heating, is air quenched, then annealed by
> > bringing it back to around 1300F but didn't see for how long, or
> > what they call an air quench. But I don't think I've any way to get
> > it up to 1800F in the first place.  Best heater I have ATM is a nat
> > gas fired 4 burner cook stove, or a bernz-o-matic
>
> I would imagine that you can do it with the Bernz-o-matic, but you
> would need to be using MAPP gas and a firebrick hearth.

Funny thing about mapp gas + the yellow oxygen, I bought 2 each and a 
micro-torch, found the valves were uncontrollable and put it on the 
shelf including the un-tapped cans. 18 months later I thought I'd make 
another pass at making it work, and all 4 cans were empty!  I'll have to 
see if I can find another kit the next time I am someplace that may 
carry it, depending on how long this A2 stays usably sharp without being 
hardened.  Firebrick I think I could source there too.  But I'd only 
need a crucible about the size of a large communion cup.

> I have certainly heat-treated moderately-sized parts that way.
> I see this on ebay.com
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131543951302

That looks like it would take a serious amount of fire for something that 
big. Just 3 bricks should be plenty of backdrop I'd assume.

This seems like it might be a use case for a prince albert can full of 
bone meal and a blacksmiths charcoal forge.  Even a wood fire fed by a 
vacuum motor blowing into the bottom ought to get hot enough for that & 
I need a good excuse to burn some yard trimmings anyway, or even a 
couple snow shovels full of scraps from behind the chop saw.

A bag of fire clay & a tin gallon paint bucket would make a big enough 
forge for this. A central hole just the right size to stack it full of 
charcoal briquettes.

Thanks for the brain tickle, Andy.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction, various other subjects

[andy pugh]

On 23 February 2016 at 02:59, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> I looked in the handbook, I made the cutter out of A2, which needs
> 1700-1800F for first heating, is air quenched, then annealed by bringing
> it back to around 1300F but didn't see for how long, or what they call
> an air quench. But I don't think I've any way to get it up to 1800F in
> the first place.  Best heater I have ATM is a nat gas fired 4 burner
> cook stove, or a bernz-o-matic


I would imagine that you can do it with the Bernz-o-matic, but you
would need to be using MAPP gas and a firebrick hearth.
I have certainly heat-treated moderately-sized parts that way.
I see this on ebay.com
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131543951302

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction, various other subjects

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 22 February 2016 08:35:31 John Alexander Stewart wrote:

> Gene;
>
> I have the Canadian equivalent of the G0704, CNCd, and I think the Y
> gib goes to the back of the machine to tighten. I did go through the
> exercise to adjust the ways, but it needs doing again, and, finding
> out why the backlash compensation on the Y is so high
> ​
> John.

I did get it John, drive Y to the rear until that back bolt has well 
chewed a pocket in the rubber sheet seems to be about right. I put 
a .0001 dial on it and anything under a thou of wiggle is too tight. 
Then I put the dial on x, & soaked both ends of a paper towel with 
mobile 68 way oil, wiped off black grunge till I tossed the towels, 
washed, rinsed and repeated until x didn't want to come off the end of 
its travel, & worked it back looser, cleaning and oiling as I went, 
until it could home x and drive it back to center reliably.

Some of you may want to mark this message, on the G0704, X gibs drive 
left to tighten, Y drives to the rear to tighten, and Z drives down to 
tighten.

So its now moving Y while cutting with no trace of the 5mm screw.  I am 
not really impressed with the Y drive or the z, neither has a bearing on 
the far end of the screw, so it can flop about if the motor coupleing 
isn't dead straight on.  Didja ever see one that was?  Me neither...

Anyway, finished up that single tooth cutter tonight, but found 2 things, 
first being that drilling & tapping 2 4mm holes 1/4" apart to hold the 
cutting tooth will need to have the cap screw heads filed down about 15 
thou each as the caps each contact the side of the others cap.  2nd was 
that I under-estimated how much A2 I should have sawed off to make the 
cutting tooth, so tomorrow I need to make another, perhaps 1/4" longer 
piece, and when I form the cutter, it needs tipped a bit higher for 
additional heel clearance.  I had turned the steel bars ends for 
backside clearance until I had lost about 1/2 the depth of the outside 
holes threads by that trim, but that still needed both a longer cutting 
tooth, and a higher attack angle so the wood doesn't come in contact 
with the tool holder after the cutter has passed by.  I did gnaw on one 
piece of scrap, and it looks pretty good, so I believe I am on the right 
track.

I looked in the handbook, I made the cutter out of A2, which needs 
1700-1800F for first heating, is air quenched, then annealed by bringing 
it back to around 1300F but didn't see for how long, or what they call 
an air quench. But I don't think I've any way to get it up to 1800F in 
the first place.  Best heater I have ATM is a nat gas fired 4 burner 
cook stove, or a bernz-o-matic. I haven't had any tanks for my Smith 
wrench since the whole shebang was stolen back in 80-81 in Redding CA.  
And with electric cutoff saws, I haven't felt the need to buy another 
kit when the tanks are going for around $500 a pair in these here parts.

For something like this, a kilowatt induction heater is likely a better 
deal, but I don't know of any in this neck of the woods.

Anyway, I have nearly 3 feet of that A2, and a powered waterstone to face 
it with, so if it does dull, I can both sharpen it and make new ones 
too.

So, I learn by doing, and I feel good about todays progress. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction

[John Alexander Stewart]

Gene;

I have the Canadian equivalent of the G0704, CNCd, and I think the Y gib
goes to the back of the machine to tighten. I did go through the exercise
to adjust the ways, but it needs doing again, and, finding out why the
backlash compensation on the Y is so high
​
John.
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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 22 February 2016 04:23:12 andy pugh wrote:

> On 22 February 2016 at 04:33, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > The printed manual that comes with a G0704 does not saw which
> > direction to drive the gib to tighten.
>
> Is it a tapered gib? If it is then the screw will be on the big end, I
> don't think I have ever seen one with the screw on the small end, and
> it would make assembly very difficult.

It has a screw on each end Andy, and as opposed to having a keyed screw 
that can pull either way, its locked in position by being trapped 
between the screws.  For the rear Y, needs a very short screwdriver. Not 
the easiest to get to, and the bottom screw on Z is covered by the post 
covering bellows. I finally bent that enough to get some suture clamps 
in and turn it about 20 degrees at a time.  Overdid that, making slow z 
descents sticky, and had to back off the top screw & take up the bottom 
one until that went away, along with a liberal puddle of way oil & a 
couple runs up and down the post to distribute it.

That wasn't adjustable to get rid it it on the HF toy mill even if I 
could feel it move sideways it was so loose.  That was finally fixed by 
a bar of 1/2" alu screwed to each side, carrying a ball bearing on each 
end that rode the post, effectively adding about 2" to the heads 
wheelbase top and bottom.  With that steel bar sticking up well above 
the top of the post holding a ball bearing pulley that a couple screen 
door springs attached to the post, going up over the pulley and back 
down to a wire loop to two of the motor mount bolts, that works well now 
and doesn't have to be oiled 3 times a day.  Its the very essence of 
rube goldberg though. Not one of my finest moments. :(

I am considering such a contraption for this one, that nema 34 motor is 
busting its butt to make 40 ipm  going up.

In these here parts, welding a lift eye onto the ends of a couple pieces 
of old mine belt shafting would be easiest to source for counterweights.  
I can buy that stuff by the pound at the recycle collectors.  And its 
very hard steel, hell to machine. BTDT, made the motor couplings for the 
toy mill out of it.

But nitrogen struts would be a lot less mass to accelerate, IF I could 
find suitable ball posts that would space them out an inch from the post 
& most aren't that high.  Might have to make those.  Just more round 
tuits to find...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction

[andy pugh]

On 22 February 2016 at 09:51, Dave Caroline  wrote:
> Actually tapered gibs are a pain if they dont have a screw both ends,
> Those with a single screw are in a slot so they can resist the gibs
> tendency to self tighten

My point is that a gib with a slot in the gib and a collared screw:
(as an example:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/Gibbs#5397761195818256498
)

Would be unnecessarily difficult to assemble if the screw and slot
were at the small end, so it is a fairly reasonable guess that if
there is only one then it is at the big end.

Here is Hoss describing how he thinks it should be done on the G0704.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L6DdTqY6QA

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction

[Dave Caroline]

Actually tapered gibs are a pain if they dont have a screw both ends,
Those with a single screw are in a slot so they can resist the gibs
tendency to self tighten and for removal of the gib. Broken or bent
gib screws seem to be a regular problem with taper gibs.

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] Gib screw direction

[andy pugh]

On 22 February 2016 at 04:33, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> The printed manual that comes with a G0704 does not saw which direction
> to drive the gib to tighten.

Is it a tapered gib? If it is then the screw will be on the big end, I
don't think I have ever seen one with the screw on the small end, and
it would make assembly very difficult.

-- 
atp
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[Emc-users] Gib screw direction

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

The printed manual that comes with a G0704 does not saw which direction 
to drive the gib to tighten.

I noted a wave pattern in the cuts that Y motion caused, and after 
staring at it for a minute, it occured to me that I was seeing the 5mm 
pitch of the Y screw.  Shaking the tables, sure as heck, I can detect a 
slight motion that I believe is looseness in the GIB's for the Y saddle 
on the base. So first thing tomorrow, see if I can take that up.

6 months back, it was not detectable after I had checked and adjusted it 
then, but the doc's don't say & I've forgotten which way I drove it to 
take up the play then.

I hope this wear slows after a while as things get broken in.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Genes Web page 

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