Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2020-01-21 at 12:39 -0800, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> On 2020-01-21 11:31, bari wrote:
> > On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> >> That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
> >> was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
> >> X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
> >> you want.
> >>
> >> I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
> >> from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
> >> would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.
> >>
> >> - headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
> >> needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
> >> - GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
> >> - API for special additions and future development
> > 
> > How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
> > (many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
> > material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
> > issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?
> 
> That's a matter of $$$. It's possible to handle such tasks already. In 
> case of LinuxCNC is not easy to provide remote support. Lets say LCNC 
> architecture with headless controller allows a VPN connection to API to 
> see or manage the machine remotely or collaborate with operator that's 
> not familiar with Linux. Some surgical robots already make this 
> possible. I bet that's way more critical RT system than a CNC machine 
> which ends up with broken router bit when "oops" happens.
> 
> > Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?
> 
> Well, future is here and I get very excited just reading about it:
> https://www.universal-robots.com/
> CNC machines are robots in a sense.
> 
> However, we should not forget how we made it to where we are. I do 
> support and participate in efforts to restore old computing equipment in 
> computer museum for future generations to admire. It's a lot of fun when 
> you meet people who programmed those machines when or before some of us 
> were in diapers ;-)
> 
> > 
> > What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?
> 
> I would like to see low cost solutions based on LCNC for hobby or small 
> business users so that they can do their work more productively and 
> perhaps grow to the point to be able to buy more advanced robotic systems.
> 
> It's my intention to put together a small CNC to be able to do more than 
> what I can do with not very accurate Grizzly lathe/mill combo. I don't 
> mind paying some $$ for components to put a simple CNC machine together. 
> If those components were built by members of this list we would all 
> benefit. Software and HW QA, feedback, and promotion elsewhere.
> 
> One possibility for motivating software developers would be to help them 
> buy industrial grade embedded computer/electronics set that they could 
> use for writing code and quick test. That could cover upgrade for long 
> list of existing machines or help you build new machines. This has been 
> done before by HW manufacturers that needed drivers for their products.
> 
> I see Mesa covers a range of components that could be used that way but 
> it's showing it's age and it's only a single source.
> 
> Other times such efforts end up as products, open software and hardware; 
> example: https://ardupilot.org/
> 
> Generic PC motherboards with multi-core CPUs, GBs of RAM, for CNC use 
> make no sense anymore.
> 
> Aluminum extrusions make it possible to make all kinds of machines that 
> don't exist yet. It's perfect material for people with small work space.
> 
> I spent a lot of hours researching this subject on the Internet or 
> talking to people at different trade shows but they all seem to sell 
> full expensive solutions with proprietary software. Nobody showed any 
> interest in LCNC.
> 
> I found interesting snap cnc-designer which needs some work but it's the 
> only CNC related piece of software in Linux containers space that I'm 
> aware of.
> 
> Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion 
> about flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, 
> brand names, etc.
> 
> Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)
> 


I still repeat, I can't find anything better than LinuxCNC to run my
CNCs, and maybe you are aware that it is already possible to do via
ethernet with a Mesa card http://www.mesanet.com/





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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

that is kind of what I am doing.  I am not running any CNC machines, I 
am just 'messing' with some stepper motors, drivers, io boards and some 
sensors


to see if i can make that contraption work. X-forwarding is easy, 
because you can see if things work as they are supposed to, and it's 
easier to take a


20ft serial cable to hook my test contraption up. I set up vnc, but it 
was complaining about permissions, X-forwarding worked almost "out of 
the box"


(was missing a few libraries/fonts).


Ron


On 1/21/20 5:12 PM, Rick Moscoloni wrote:

  i have run several machines through vncviewver server from realvnc, and
done debug several miles away. DO IT!
In the past I tried to evangelize many people into LINUXCNC, but the
windows virus does not cure easily.
Regards Rick

El mar., 21 ene. 2020 a las 19:34, Rafael Skodlar ()
escribió:


On 2020-01-21 13:08, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m

not 3 (transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)

Todd Zuercher

To make it through my DIY projects I had to install a conversion app to
handle fractions, F, and such on my PDA. Sad state of the Union.

... snip

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but

where I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus'
Chainflex cables.  But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with
long cable runs (3m or so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good
long-term flexibility is a must.

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the

extra cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count
cable ends is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher

...

I appreciate your pointer to what I was looking for. The cost seems to
be reasonable. Some encoders I've seen come with connectors that are not
too hard to connect to cables.

I don't mind soldering though. I've done it thousands of times when 50
or 100 pairs phone cables needed to be connected in cable racks for the
phone company for my intern job. Here in the US it's not done that way.
They must be afraid of burning their fingers ;-)

SMT components are now a challenge for me. My eyes have seen too many
small things and need magnification for small parts/print ;-)

Thanks to you guys there is hope for me to build something.

--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rick Moscoloni]

 i have run several machines through vncviewver server from realvnc, and
done debug several miles away. DO IT!
In the past I tried to evangelize many people into LINUXCNC, but the
windows virus does not cure easily.
Regards Rick

El mar., 21 ene. 2020 a las 19:34, Rafael Skodlar ()
escribió:

> On 2020-01-21 13:08, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m
> not 3 (transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
>
> To make it through my DIY projects I had to install a conversion app to
> handle fractions, F, and such on my PDA. Sad state of the Union.
>
> ... snip
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Todd Zuercher
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc
> >
> > Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but
> where I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus'
> Chainflex cables.  But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with
> long cable runs (3m or so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good
> long-term flexibility is a must.
> >
> > PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the
> extra cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count
> cable ends is a pain in the...)
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> ...
>
> I appreciate your pointer to what I was looking for. The cost seems to
> be reasonable. Some encoders I've seen come with connectors that are not
> too hard to connect to cables.
>
> I don't mind soldering though. I've done it thousands of times when 50
> or 100 pairs phone cables needed to be connected in cable racks for the
> phone company for my intern job. Here in the US it's not done that way.
> They must be afraid of burning their fingers ;-)
>
> SMT components are now a challenge for me. My eyes have seen too many
> small things and need magnification for small parts/print ;-)
>
> Thanks to you guys there is hope for me to build something.
>
> --
> Rafael Skodlar
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 2020-01-21 13:08, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m not 3 
(transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)

Todd Zuercher


To make it through my DIY projects I had to install a conversion app to 
handle fractions, F, and such on my PDA. Sad state of the Union.


... snip

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but where 
I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus' Chainflex cables. 
 But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with long cable runs (3m or 
so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good long-term flexibility is a 
must.

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the extra 
cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count cable ends 
is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher

...

I appreciate your pointer to what I was looking for. The cost seems to 
be reasonable. Some encoders I've seen come with connectors that are not 
too hard to connect to cables.


I don't mind soldering though. I've done it thousands of times when 50 
or 100 pairs phone cables needed to be connected in cable racks for the 
phone company for my intern job. Here in the US it's not done that way. 
They must be afraid of burning their fingers ;-)


SMT components are now a challenge for me. My eyes have seen too many 
small things and need magnification for small parts/print ;-)


Thanks to you guys there is hope for me to build something.

--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Todd Zuercher]

Correction on my cable lengths, I was thinking 30ft which is about 10m not 3 
(transposed the 1 and the 3 in my head.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Todd Zuercher 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 4:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: RE: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but where 
I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus' Chainflex cables. 
 But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with long cable runs (3m or 
so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good long-term flexibility is a 
must.  

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the extra 
cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count cable ends 
is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Rafael Skodlar  
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:39 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion about 
flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, brand names, etc.

Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)

--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Todd Zuercher]

Cable and wiring needs will vary from application to application, but where 
I've had to replace machine cabling I have usually used Igus' Chainflex cables. 
 But I'm generally working with large cnc routers with long cable runs (3m or 
so) and a lot of long moving cable chains where good long-term flexibility is a 
must.  

PS if you can buy your encoder cables pre-made it is usually worth the extra 
cost.  Hand crimping (or worse soldering) those tiny high wire count cable ends 
is a pain in the...)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Rafael Skodlar  
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:39 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion about 
flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, brand names, etc.

Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)

--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 2020-01-21 11:31, bari wrote:

On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
you want.

I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.

- headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
- GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
- API for special additions and future development


How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
(many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?


That's a matter of $$$. It's possible to handle such tasks already. In 
case of LinuxCNC is not easy to provide remote support. Lets say LCNC 
architecture with headless controller allows a VPN connection to API to 
see or manage the machine remotely or collaborate with operator that's 
not familiar with Linux. Some surgical robots already make this 
possible. I bet that's way more critical RT system than a CNC machine 
which ends up with broken router bit when "oops" happens.



Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?


Well, future is here and I get very excited just reading about it:
https://www.universal-robots.com/
CNC machines are robots in a sense.

However, we should not forget how we made it to where we are. I do 
support and participate in efforts to restore old computing equipment in 
computer museum for future generations to admire. It's a lot of fun when 
you meet people who programmed those machines when or before some of us 
were in diapers ;-)




What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?


I would like to see low cost solutions based on LCNC for hobby or small 
business users so that they can do their work more productively and 
perhaps grow to the point to be able to buy more advanced robotic systems.


It's my intention to put together a small CNC to be able to do more than 
what I can do with not very accurate Grizzly lathe/mill combo. I don't 
mind paying some $$ for components to put a simple CNC machine together. 
If those components were built by members of this list we would all 
benefit. Software and HW QA, feedback, and promotion elsewhere.


One possibility for motivating software developers would be to help them 
buy industrial grade embedded computer/electronics set that they could 
use for writing code and quick test. That could cover upgrade for long 
list of existing machines or help you build new machines. This has been 
done before by HW manufacturers that needed drivers for their products.


I see Mesa covers a range of components that could be used that way but 
it's showing it's age and it's only a single source.


Other times such efforts end up as products, open software and hardware; 
example: https://ardupilot.org/


Generic PC motherboards with multi-core CPUs, GBs of RAM, for CNC use 
make no sense anymore.


Aluminum extrusions make it possible to make all kinds of machines that 
don't exist yet. It's perfect material for people with small work space.


I spent a lot of hours researching this subject on the Internet or 
talking to people at different trade shows but they all seem to sell 
full expensive solutions with proprietary software. Nobody showed any 
interest in LCNC.


I found interesting snap cnc-designer which needs some work but it's the 
only CNC related piece of software in Linux containers space that I'm 
aware of.


Following this mailing list for very long I have yet to see a discussion 
about flexible cables for CNC machines; specific types, wire sizes, 
brand names, etc.


Thanks for not kicking me around ;-)

--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,  Criticism is good.   I am most critical of my own work, the only why
to not get stuck and improve.

Linus CNC is basically a 1980's software design.   It has some rather huge
faults.  The real problem is that no one was time to do a full-up rewrite.

Back in the 1980's computers were expensive and microcontrollers were
way-primitive and slow and not really cheap either.  Back them a standard
PC was the best hardware platform for a CNC controller.   Today using a PC
running a real-time Linux is about the worst platform.

Doing a fresh start in 2020, I'd pick a 32-bit microcontroller platform and
then a "hard" real-time OS that is portable over a wide rand of 32-bit
microcontrollers.   FreeRTOS would be a example of this.  See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeRTOS
These OSes are nothing at all like Linux.  They have no user interface and
are linked with the application.

Al of the real-time functions for the CNC controller would go into the
microcontroller.  There are about 100 cheap hardware borads thit it could
run on.   Ths is an example: .../stm32-nucleo-boards/nucleo-f446ze.html

These cost about $20 and have a "boat load" of pins all on 0.1"
connectors.  These must be 100 of these boards on the market.

Then the non-real-time part runs on any kind of computer, Mac, Windows,
Linux and allows you to run multiple 32-bit real-time controllers if you
want to do something crazy like a 12-axis machine.

Finally, there is a user interface with graphics.   It should run on
anything, like a PC or Mac or a tablet and there cold be several of these.
Perhaps a touch screen tablet on the milling machine and a second larger
screen with a keyboard and mouse.It might be web-based.

In summary,  We have a single background process that runs as a normal
user-level app.   I'd write it in maybe Python.  It would run in the
background on any kind of computer and would the central "hub" of the CNC
system.   It is what reads the g-code files.Ten there are one or more
hardware boards that run a "hard" real-time OS on 32-bit microcontrollers.
  Each board can run 3 or 4 axis.  Most users would need only one board but
I don't see why there should be a limit.   Thes connect via an IP network,
likely for most users Ethernet but could be anything.   The central hub
process also talks to any number of user interface processes, also over an
IP network.

The interface from PC app to the controller boards is simple.   the boards
have a queue of "target states"  this a time, location, velocity and
acceleration.   The board keeps a buffer of these.  Because each state is
timestamped multiple boards can work together.

But how has time to re-do this?   LinuxCNC has many problems but it is the
best free CNC system out there and it is 100% usable for most purposes.

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 3:05 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 20 January 2020 00:42:17 Rafael Skodlar wrote:
>
> > On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
> > > well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a
> > > permanent setup
> > >
> > > So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
> > >
> > >
> > > Ron
> >
> > Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting
> > saddle on a caw.
> >
> > Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production
> > environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless
> > hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including
> > LinuxCNC with their products. Most small to medium size CNC machines
> > in built or kit forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the
> > subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product because it's
> > only available on crippled OS.
> >
> > After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of
> > misunderstanding about using Linux in small business environments. I
> > hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with
> > new or DIY CNC machines. When I tried to get small business owners or
> > others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are
> > impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other electronics HW
> > are needed, who's supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
> >
> > I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list.
> > Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main
> > purpose.
> >
> > Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are
> > just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in
> > their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to
> > EU I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
> >
> > LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial
> > use and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the
> > requirements advertised anywhere.
> >
> > If things were 

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[bari]

On 1/20/20 11:55 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I
> was pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running
> X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if
> you want.
>
> I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU
> from  my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth
> would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.
>
> - headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display
> needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting
> - GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
> - API for special additions and future development

How will the CNC machine operator at the remote location with the GUI
(many miles/kilometers away from the machine) handle loading the
material and unloading the parts from the machine? How will they handle
issues with chatter, worn or broken tools, etc etc?

Is this for some sort of fully automated manufacturing plant in the future?

What exactly are the problems that need solutions or that you want to solve?


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[John Dammeyer]

> >  What about API to Linux CNC?
> 
> There is a very lightweight (and limited one)
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/linuxcncrsh.1.html
> 
> atp

Thanks Andy,
This actually looks really useful.
John Dammeyer



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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 07:58, Rafael Skodlar  wrote:

> that's precisely why I was hinting at need for growing up from "parallel
> port" days. Perhaps discuss how SATA, PCIe, M.2 technologies and related
> protocols could be taken advantage of.

LinuxCNC supports a number of PCIe interface cards. All my CNC
machines use them.

>  May I remind you that this is "Python3 year".

Though this is a fair point. Sadly switching LinuxCNC to Python 3 is a
lot less trivial than people assume.

> why push pixels to see what's going on a remote system with RT kernel
> when simple ASCII (JSON?) string can tell you all?

My understanding is that X-forwarding does not push pixels, but rather
window manager commands. This is why the look of the windows is
detrmined by the host PC rather than the remote.

>  What about API to Linux CNC?

There is a very lightweight (and limited one)
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/linuxcncrsh.1.html

> Sorry guys, when a response to my email is a real time troll (not
> knowing how particular OS is crippled)

I don't think that the realtime patches to the Linux kernel "cripple"
it. I would argue that they "enhance" it.
Or have I misunderstood?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

Hi Ron,

On 2020-01-20 12:10, R C wrote:

Hello Rafael,


First;  As I said, I am setting up a test bed, not even a CNC, just to 
work out how to make some combination of linux-cnc, stepper drivers and 
stepper motors work.


Second; When I get it figured out, and I am sure I will, because this 
list/forum is great in providing solutions, suggestions, pointers and 
positive directions in general etc.  I


  probably won't use X forwarding,  but then again, I might, 
who knows.


That's fine. You can experiment with software/HW any way you want. I was 
pointing out what makes sense and what not. You can try running 
X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if 
you want.


I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU from 
 my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth would 
allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine.


- headless LinuxCNC core with USB for keyboard and simple text display 
needed for basic OS installation, configuration, or troubleshooting

- GUI fronted for machine operator; platform independent (i386, Arm)
- API for special additions and future development

third; I have no Idea what a caw is, however on my travels I once heard 
a breed of parrots being referred to as a caw, and indeed, it would not 
make much sense to put a saddle on a bird


     like that. Unless you meant cow, in that case, and because of 


caw was a trap ... cow it is. You passed the test.

losing track of the topic, I would have carved out some time to spend on 
reading/writing English from those decades


  of research if I were you.


thanks for English lesson. Plenty of opportunities for your police work 
on this mailing list. Perhaps you can cleanup "Pandemonium of rabbits" 
and untrimmed emails that are impractical to read on tiny mobile devices 
for years now.




fourth: Your email sounds like a Chevy vs Ford,  Windows vs Mac vs Linux 
rant, no one probably cares.


Failed test. Better comparison: embedded systems vs. CNC on PC; DOS vs. 
RTOS; metric vs. feet/inches;




The fact you, and few others, don't have a solid understanding of linux, 


"The fact"? based on what? My installations of Linux containers, 
clusters, Saltstack, Openstack, ESX,...?


Compiled Linux kernel hundreds of times, installed OS on thousands of 
servers or VMs in the data centers over VPN from 5 to 1000 miles away. 
Add BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, and other Unix to that list. I only used 
X-windows on workstations installs. When you exceed that number I'll 
sign up for you to give me more lessons.


Fact: millions keep dragging feet and inches over 200 years after much 
better system was invented for science and daily use by people born with 
10 fingers to count.


is not an argument. The fact it is open source isn't either. HPC, super 
computers, worth hundreds of millions, run


some version/distro of linux. One of the reasons being that the ways it 
can be configured, tweaked, modified are enormous, better then one 
single OS vendor would ever be able to provide.



"better then"? Thanks for English lesson again.



Also, I am not sure, but most on this list/forum, are probably not even 
professional machinists, there are probably a lot of "CNC enthusiasts" 
around, some know a bunch about




that's precisely why I was hinting at need for growing up from "parallel 
port" days. Perhaps discuss how SATA, PCIe, M.2 technologies and related 
protocols could be taken advantage of. May I remind you that this is 
"Python3 year".


CNC machining, some are more software/programming inclined, some are 
more OS or electronics inclined. That's probably how linux-CNC came of 
the ground, which is pretty cool.


Exactly. We do agree on something. I believe that we reached the point 
where significant improvements can be or should be done to carry 
LinuxCNC forward.





If you look at it, linux-CNC is pretty slick. Granted I had some trouble 
installing it, using it, it is not based on the OS of my choice (but I 
don't mind/care, and


I never had problems with installing it in VM to test software 
functionality. Granted, I'm not using it for CNC at this point. With 
attacks on my comments make it even less desirable now.




no one else, except you, probably really does.). The reason for my CNC 
"troubles" , I am sure, largely have to do with my own shortcomings, not 
exactly knowing


a lot about linux-CNC, or CNC machining in general. It is an open source 
project, which means that it is available to anyone. It might not be the 
perfect solution, BUT, what is?


I have nothing against people trying this or that. Experiments lead to 
new discoveries but not all.


My active participation in Linux install-fests held at Cisco in north 
San Jose is history. Anybody was welcome to see how our personal 
computers with CRT monitors work. We would help visitors setup their 
systems. I remember a gentleman who asked me to come to his home to help 

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

I totally agree,  this is a pretty cool, knowledgeable 
forum/list/community with a bunch of people that like to help others out.



Ron


On 1/20/20 12:27 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

I don't know if he was trolling or not but...

  I will only say that I'm more than thankful that we still have communities
like this one and software like LinuxCNC.

And I don't want to be a flatterer or sound too political but if the
ideology seen here would be applied in more places and institutions I think
a lot of problems would be already gone.

I give you the one about the discussions on the list sometimes going off
topic... But you contributed to that too.

And also I don't recall having to wait more than a few hours to get a
problem solved. And certainly this list always solved my problems with LCNC.

Again a very big thank you to all the people involved in this. It's always
nice to remember that.







El 20 ene. 2020 14:44,  escribió:

For a really easy and slick X-forwarding.



https://mobaxterm.mobatek.net/



Good for Remote Desktop.

Probably not a good idea to run a machine you can't see or reach out to
E-stop

Just sayingthink safety.



N



-Original Message-

From: R C 

Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc



Hello,





is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?

(running stepconf for example?)





I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and forth a
lot





thanks,





Ron







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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

Hello Rafael,


First;  As I said, I am setting up a test bed, not even a CNC, just to 
work out how to make some combination of linux-cnc, stepper drivers and 
stepper motors work.


Second; When I get it figured out, and I am sure I will, because this 
list/forum is great in providing solutions, suggestions, pointers and 
positive directions in general etc.  I


 probably won't use X forwarding,  but then again, I might, 
who knows.


third; I have no Idea what a caw is, however on my travels I once heard 
a breed of parrots being referred to as a caw, and indeed, it would not 
make much sense to put a saddle on a bird


    like that. Unless you meant cow, in that case, and because of 
losing track of the topic, I would have carved out some time to spend on 
reading/writing English from those decades


 of research if I were you.

fourth: Your email sounds like a Chevy vs Ford,  Windows vs Mac vs Linux 
rant, no one probably cares.



The fact you, and few others, don't have a solid understanding of linux, 
is not an argument. The fact it is open source isn't either. HPC, super 
computers, worth hundreds of millions, run


some version/distro of linux. One of the reasons being that the ways it 
can be configured, tweaked, modified are enormous, better then one 
single OS vendor would ever be able to provide.



Also, I am not sure, but most on this list/forum, are probably not even 
professional machinists, there are probably a lot of "CNC enthusiasts" 
around, some know a bunch about


CNC machining, some are more software/programming inclined, some are 
more OS or electronics inclined. That's probably how linux-CNC came of 
the ground, which is pretty cool.



If you look at it, linux-CNC is pretty slick. Granted I had some trouble 
installing it, using it, it is not based on the OS of my choice (but I 
don't mind/care, and


no one else, except you, probably really does.). The reason for my CNC 
"troubles" , I am sure, largely have to do with my own shortcomings, not 
exactly knowing


a lot about linux-CNC, or CNC machining in general. It is an open source 
project, which means that it is available to anyone. It might not be the 
perfect solution, BUT, what is?


One of the big advantages is that as soon as a few people come up with 
and idea to implement something, even if a majority doesn't like the 
idea, they still can.


With an OS/Application vendor, you're pretty much dead in the water if 
you want something they don't/won't implement.



Also, returning back to the topic,  you might have heard of LOM, (Lights 
Out Management), of equipment, including CNC machines, during your 
decades of research where it


actually might be convenient, if not mandatory, to remotely check in 
with CNC machines running autonomously. So X11 forwarding might be 
useful, who knows.



Anyway, last but not least,  to those of you actively contributing to 
linux-CNC, most of us here, I am sure, would like to thank you for your 
countless hours spent


on making this open source project possible. There will always be those 
that are whining and complaining, but they are vastly outnumbered by 
those of us


that are happy this projects exists.





thanks!


Ron


On 1/19/20 10:42 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:

On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
permanent setup


So X-forwarding would work, and is easy


Ron


Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting 
saddle on a caw.


Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production 
environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless 
hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including 
LinuxCNC with their products. Most small to medium size CNC machines 
in built or kit forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the 
subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product because it's 
only available on crippled OS.


After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of 
misunderstanding about using Linux in small business environments. I 
hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with 
new or DIY CNC machines. When I tried to get small business owners or 
others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are 
impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other electronics HW 
are needed, who's supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.


I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list. 
Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main purpose.


Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are 
just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in 
their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to 
EU I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.


LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial 
use and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the 

Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

I don't know if he was trolling or not but...

 I will only say that I'm more than thankful that we still have communities
like this one and software like LinuxCNC.

And I don't want to be a flatterer or sound too political but if the
ideology seen here would be applied in more places and institutions I think
a lot of problems would be already gone.

I give you the one about the discussions on the list sometimes going off
topic... But you contributed to that too.

And also I don't recall having to wait more than a few hours to get a
problem solved. And certainly this list always solved my problems with LCNC.

Again a very big thank you to all the people involved in this. It's always
nice to remember that.







El 20 ene. 2020 14:44,  escribió:

For a really easy and slick X-forwarding.



https://mobaxterm.mobatek.net/



Good for Remote Desktop.

Probably not a good idea to run a machine you can't see or reach out to
E-stop

Just sayingthink safety.



N



-Original Message-

From: R C 

Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc



Hello,





is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?

(running stepconf for example?)





I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and forth a
lot





thanks,





Ron







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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[linuxcnc]

For a really easy and slick X-forwarding.

 

https://mobaxterm.mobatek.net/

 

Good for Remote Desktop.

Probably not a good idea to run a machine you can't see or reach out to
E-stop

Just sayingthink safety.

 

N

 

-Original Message-

From: R C  

Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

 

Hello,

 

 

is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications? 

(running stepconf for example?)

 

 

I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and forth a
lot

 

 

thanks,

 

 

Ron

 

 

 

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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Todd Zuercher]

On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
>> well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
>> permanent setup
>>
>> So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
>>
>>
>> Ron

>Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting saddle on a 
>caw.

Makes more sense than running MS-Windows.

>Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production environments or as 
>an option in new CNC products. I spent countless hours to find out if any CNC 
>manufacturer is recommending or including >LinuxCNC with their products. Most 
>small to medium size CNC machines in built or kit forms, come with Mach or 
>some other thing. When the subject matter comes up I don't recommend their 
>product because >it's only available on crippled OS.

In what way is it crippled?

>After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of misunderstanding about 
>using Linux in small business environments. I hate to write it, but LinuxCNC 
>is not ready for software option with new or DIY CNC >machines. When I tried 
>to get small business owners or others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get 
>questions that are impossible to answer.
>What kind of computer and other electronics HW are needed, who's supporting 
>it, how much does it cost, etc.

I will concede that Linuxcnc isn't for everyone.  (A company looking to buy and 
willing to pay for a commercial machine with commercial support and out of 
house service is a perfect example.)   As to who will support, if a 
manufacturer were to chose to use Linuxcnc as their control it would be up to 
them to support it.  (See Tormach as an example).   On a retrofit machine the 
support burden would fall on the retrofitter (you if you did it yourself, the 
same for Mach.)  If you want a supported turn key retrofit system with support, 
it is going to cost you a pretty penny.  As will any good machine with 
commercial quality support.  (and you won't find any machines running Mach in 
that category either.)  But for a company looking to retrofit old or 
unsupported machinery, using in house support resources Linuxcnc is an 
excellent option.

>I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list.  

No, if you are looking to make money from them you need to be telling them to 
call you.

>Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main purpose.

>Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are just 
>silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in their pockets 
>but not for serious business owners. During my visit to EU I >could not find a 
>used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.

Linuxcnc doesn't require old hardware.  Used PCs are often suggested, because 
Linuxcnc's PC requirements are not all that demanding, such that older PCs are 
generally adequate.  But because some PC designs are not well suited to running 
real-time getting a "good" one can be a bit of a role of the dice.  This is why 
testing a few old PCs you may have at hand is worth while rather than going out 
and buying a new one that may or may not work better.  Linuxcnc is far more 
hardware agnostic than Mach.  As far as I know Linuxcnc runs perfectly well on 
most new PC-hardware, and a parallel port is not a requirement, unless you want 
to use one.

>LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial use and 
>support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the requirements 
>advertised anywhere.

>If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC instead of 
>putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would be a headless 
>Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for >different size machines. 
>GUI would be running on separate system connected over ethernet, USB, or even 
>wireless in some cases. Numerous robots work that way.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but...

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Jon Elson]

On 01/19/2020 11:42 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote:



Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production 
environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent 
countless hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is 
recommending or including LinuxCNC with their products. 
Most small to medium size CNC machines in built or kit 
forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the 
subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product 
because it's only available on crippled OS.


Well, check with Tormach, they only sell a system that is 
based on LinuxCNC (they call their version PathPilot).


After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of 
misunderstanding about using Linux in small business 
environments. I hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not 
ready for software option with new or DIY CNC machines. 
When I tried to get small business owners or others at 
trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are 
impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other 
electronics HW are needed, who's supporting it, how much 
does it cost, etc.


Most PCs work fine, also there is a version that runs on the 
Beagle Bone computer.  Several companies make add-on
hardware to interface to the motor drives, etc.  Mesa, Pico 
Systems (that's me) and PMDX.  LinuxCNC is free,
including the OS, real time option and the CNC program.  Was 
this info impossible to obtain?  Or, did you never look?
I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing 
list. Discussions more often than not degenerate from the 
lists main purpose.


Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with 
parallel port are just silly. That's fine for hackers with 
more spare time than $$$ in their pockets but not for 
serious business owners. During my visit to EU I could not 
find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
I sell PCIe parallel ports so that users of my boards can 
get a known-good parallel port to go with my hardware.



If things were different, open source community would 
embrace LCNC instead of putting their effort into GRBL for 
example.
Do you have any idea how many people are using LinuxCNC?  It 
definitely numbers in the thousands.  I know a great number
of commercial and semi-commercial shops that run LinuxCNC, 
and many of them are using it on ALL the machines in their 
shop.  I've sold 336 motion controllers that are only 
supported by LinuxCNC, and I'm a small contributor compared to

the others.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Robert Murphy]

Based on my research the sky isn’t blue ( bushfires can have a temporary 
affect, and yes the sky ain’t blue at night, but you get my drift) ..but 
that don’t make it the truth.
As for GRBL, as good as the arduino platform is, and I have ideas about what is 
has done to the electronics hobby, it really is not in the same universe as 
LCNC for running a machine. 


Composed with my Crayons 

> On 20 Jan 2020, at 22:03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
>> On Monday 20 January 2020 00:42:17 Rafael Skodlar wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
>>> well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a
>>> permanent setup
>>> 
>>> So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ron
>> 
>> Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting
>> saddle on a caw.
>> 
>> Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production
>> environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless
>> hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including
>> LinuxCNC with their products. Most small to medium size CNC machines
>> in built or kit forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the
>> subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product because it's
>> only available on crippled OS.
>> 
>> After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of
>> misunderstanding about using Linux in small business environments. I
>> hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with
>> new or DIY CNC machines. When I tried to get small business owners or
>> others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are
>> impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other electronics HW
>> are needed, who's supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
>> 
>> I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list.
>> Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main
>> purpose.
>> 
>> Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are
>> just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in
>> their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to
>> EU I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
>> 
>> LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial
>> use and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the
>> requirements advertised anywhere.
>> 
>> If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC
>> instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would
>> be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for
>> different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system
>> connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous
>> robots work that way.
> 
> What utter anti LinuxCNC garbage.  Sure. linuxcnc can run when x is 
> forwarded, but the forward process limits the screen update speed, so 
> its best running X on its own computer.  For instance, using an rpi4b to 
> run my 11x54 Sheldon lathe with a miss-configured kernel, its stuck in 
> the on-demand governor, the axis display frame rate is 60 fps. With a 
> gigabit network, and displaying 2.9-pre linuxcnc on this screen its 
> about 3 fps.
> 
> I bought myself a 6040 gantry mill a year ago. Came with a cd that 
> installed mach. 30 ipm max. Came with a 24 volt motor supply so 
> underrated it actually was in foldback at 14 volts if the rotary axis 
> was plugged in. Couldn't control the builtin vfd with it, China could 
> not/would not supply English docs on its vfd. So I grabbed the computer 
> that had been running a small 4 axis HF mill for about 16 years and 
> junked the control box the 6040 came with, putting the motor drivers and 
> a real vfd into the 6040.  Now it can move XY at 200 ipm and the spindle 
> is operated from linuxcnc at any speed in either direction. Because the 
> spindle is heavy, z-up maxes at about 35 ipm, but it also has a toy 
> motor (smallest nema 23 I've ever seen, lamination stack under 7/8 inch 
> long) on that axis that will get replaced eventually.
> 
> As far as your statement about no commercial use?  Do some research 
> instead of spouting off like the expert you aren't, Tormach makes some 
> nice tabletop cnc machines, for a price of course, but that IS LinuxCNC 
> behind a gui they wrote called PathPilot.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 20 January 2020 00:42:17 Rafael Skodlar wrote:

> On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
> > well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a
> > permanent setup
> >
> > So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
> >
> >
> > Ron
>
> Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting
> saddle on a caw.
>
> Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production
> environments or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless
> hours to find out if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including
> LinuxCNC with their products. Most small to medium size CNC machines
> in built or kit forms, come with Mach or some other thing. When the
> subject matter comes up I don't recommend their product because it's
> only available on crippled OS.
>
> After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of
> misunderstanding about using Linux in small business environments. I
> hate to write it, but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with
> new or DIY CNC machines. When I tried to get small business owners or
> others at trade shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are
> impossible to answer. What kind of computer and other electronics HW
> are needed, who's supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
>
> I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list.
> Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main
> purpose.
>
> Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are
> just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in
> their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to
> EU I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
>
> LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial
> use and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the
> requirements advertised anywhere.
>
> If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC
> instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would
> be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for
> different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system
> connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous
> robots work that way.

What utter anti LinuxCNC garbage.  Sure. linuxcnc can run when x is 
forwarded, but the forward process limits the screen update speed, so 
its best running X on its own computer.  For instance, using an rpi4b to 
run my 11x54 Sheldon lathe with a miss-configured kernel, its stuck in 
the on-demand governor, the axis display frame rate is 60 fps. With a 
gigabit network, and displaying 2.9-pre linuxcnc on this screen its 
about 3 fps.

I bought myself a 6040 gantry mill a year ago. Came with a cd that 
installed mach. 30 ipm max. Came with a 24 volt motor supply so 
underrated it actually was in foldback at 14 volts if the rotary axis 
was plugged in. Couldn't control the builtin vfd with it, China could 
not/would not supply English docs on its vfd. So I grabbed the computer 
that had been running a small 4 axis HF mill for about 16 years and 
junked the control box the 6040 came with, putting the motor drivers and 
a real vfd into the 6040.  Now it can move XY at 200 ipm and the spindle 
is operated from linuxcnc at any speed in either direction. Because the 
spindle is heavy, z-up maxes at about 35 ipm, but it also has a toy 
motor (smallest nema 23 I've ever seen, lamination stack under 7/8 inch 
long) on that axis that will get replaced eventually.

As far as your statement about no commercial use?  Do some research 
instead of spouting off like the expert you aren't, Tormach makes some 
nice tabletop cnc machines, for a price of course, but that IS LinuxCNC 
behind a gui they wrote called PathPilot.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Sun, 2020-01-19 at 21:42 -0800, Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
> > well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
> > permanent setup
> > 
> > So X-forwarding would work, and is easy
> > 
> > 
> > Ron
> 
> Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting saddle 
> on a caw.
> 
> Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production environments 
> or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless hours to find out 
> if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including LinuxCNC with their 
> products. Most small to medium size CNC machines in built or kit forms, 
> come with Mach or some other thing. When the subject matter comes up I 
> don't recommend their product because it's only available on crippled OS.
> 
> After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of misunderstanding 
> about using Linux in small business environments. I hate to write it, 
> but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with new or DIY CNC 
> machines. When I tried to get small business owners or others at trade 
> shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are impossible to answer. 
> What kind of computer and other electronics HW are needed, who's 
> supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.
> 
> I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list. 
> Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main purpose.
> 
> Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are 
> just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in 
> their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to EU 
> I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.
> 
> LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial use 
> and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the 
> requirements advertised anywhere.
> 
> If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC 
> instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would 
> be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for 
> different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system 
> connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous 
> robots work that way.
> 
> 



That is your desired setup.

I have a pc with parallel port but on it I use a Mesa card, so the
parallel port is useless. I can't find anything better than LinuxCNC to
run my cnc.





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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 2020-01-19 16:50, R C wrote:
well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
permanent setup


So X-forwarding would work, and is easy


Ron


Running X-windows on CNC machines makes as much sense as mounting saddle 
on a caw.


Based on my research LinuxCNC is undesirable in production environments 
or as an option in new CNC products. I spent countless hours to find out 
if any CNC manufacturer is recommending or including LinuxCNC with their 
products. Most small to medium size CNC machines in built or kit forms, 
come with Mach or some other thing. When the subject matter comes up I 
don't recommend their product because it's only available on crippled OS.


After decades of proven good records, there is a lot of misunderstanding 
about using Linux in small business environments. I hate to write it, 
but LinuxCNC is not ready for software option with new or DIY CNC 
machines. When I tried to get small business owners or others at trade 
shows interested in LCNC I get questions that are impossible to answer. 
What kind of computer and other electronics HW are needed, who's 
supporting it, how much does it cost, etc.


I can't tell people to come ask questions on this mailing list. 
Discussions more often than not degenerate from the lists main purpose.


Suggestions to find a used PC or a motherboard with parallel port are 
just silly. That's fine for hackers with more spare time than $$$ in 
their pockets but not for serious business owners. During my visit to EU 
I could not find a used PC to demonstrate LinuxCNC around.


LinuxCNC is like Apache and such in the 1990s. No serious commercial use 
and support. I haven't seen any job listing LCNC as one of the 
requirements advertised anywhere.


If things were different, open source community would embrace LCNC 
instead of putting their effort into GRBL for example. My choice would 
be a headless Linux based CNC controller with suitable drivers for 
different size machines. GUI would be running on separate system 
connected over ethernet, USB, or even wireless in some cases. Numerous 
robots work that way.



--
Rafael


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 23:53, R C  wrote:

> is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?
> (running stepconf for example?)

With my Mac it "just works" if I log in to the LinuxCNC machine using "ssh -Y"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

well,  I just want to test a setup, it by no means is going to be a 
permanent setup


So X-forwarding would work, and is easy


Ron



On 1/19/20 5:25 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Chris Albertson wrote:

Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.    I 
think it

might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire 
desktop,

X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



check out xpra
it runs circles around vnc


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[grumpy--- via Emc-users]

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, Chris Albertson wrote:


Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.I think it
might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire desktop,
X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



check out xpra
it runs circles around vnc


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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

right,  I did try to setup VNC.  I am not trying to run things 
"remotely"  I just want to use a machine


I dedicated to run a small mill and lathe, for testing a "test setup" 
(replacing stepper drivers and stepper motors.)


So it is just a temporary thing, to see if I get the right 
configurations etc.



I had some permission issues with VNC, black screen etc.  but after I 
installed some graphics


components, mostly fonts, X-forwarding worked.


Ron


On 1/19/20 5:03 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.I think it
might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire desktop,
X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 3:53 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?
(running stepconf for example?)


I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and
forth a lot


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[Chris Albertson]

Yes, but checkout VNC as well.  Sometimes VNC can be faster.I think it
might depend on what kind of computer you have in from of you where the
physical display is. VNC is pretty good to exporting an entire desktop,
X11 forwarding for exploring one app's window.



On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 3:53 PM R C  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications?
> (running stepconf for example?)
>
>
> I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and
> forth a lot
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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[Emc-users] X forwarding with linux-cnc

[R C]

Hello,


is there a way to do X-forwarding work with linux-cnc applications? 
(running stepconf for example?)



I have a test setup on a workbench, and don't like walking back and 
forth a lot



thanks,


Ron



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