Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 May 2018 18:32:44 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> An idea for putting a square hole at the end of a round one, without
> having to use special tooling. Mill brass bar stock into a pair of
> small L shapes, with one leg just as long as the width of the tap
> shank.Position the two pieces to make a square hole then silver solder
> together. Cut off excess leg length. Turn the outside of that assembly
> round, and smaller than the OD of your tap hat.Counterbore the top of
> the tap hat to fit the square hole piece then silver solder together.
> If the L parts could be held together for the turning, the assembly
> could be silver soldered in one step
>
> If you're making these with through holes, you could make custom sized
> square broaches to push through.
>
I measured several earlier today, and it appears the shank sizes vary in 
nominally 25 thou increments. So at that rate, I'd have to make 10 or 
more of those broaches. I'll pass and use grubscrews I think. But I 
didn't make any actual swarf today, other things got in the way.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 May 2018 18:20:13 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> Rent space on the tower for cell phone and wireless internet antennas.
> That's what the grain elevator across the street from me did, top of
> one building has phone antennas all around it.
>
We were going to do that, but it turned out our 25 years at a time lease 
on the site didn't allow that without the whole rental fee going to the 
fellow that owns the hill. That lease will expire in a few more years, 
at which point he will find he has inherited a costly headache. Shrug.
>
> On Friday, May 11, 2018, 6:46:50 AM MDT, Erik Christiansen
>  wrote:
>
>  On 11.05.18 07:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 11 May 2018 03:32:39 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up
> >
> > I'm not that high either, 1000-1100' maybe. The "mountain" our old
> > ntsc transmitter is on since 1955 or so, is called Fisher Hill, 1620
> > feet at the base of a 509' tower and antenna. Costs more to take it
> > down than its worth as salvage, so they are keeping the lights on.
> > I'm the light watcher/failure reporter as I can see it from my
> > place. :)
>
> Sounds like Entropy is the feller who'll bring it down. (Doesn't
> charge much, but leaves ya with the clean-up.) Seems like you're out
> of range when it happens. That's kinda handy.
>
>
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-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

An idea for putting a square hole at the end of a round one, without having to 
use special tooling.
Mill brass bar stock into a pair of small L shapes, with one leg just as long 
as the width of the tap shank.Position the two pieces to make a square hole 
then silver solder together. Cut off excess leg length.
Turn the outside of that assembly round, and smaller than the OD of your tap 
hat.Counterbore the top of the tap hat to fit the square hole piece then silver 
solder together.
If the L parts could be held together for the turning, the assembly could be 
silver soldered in one step

If you're making these with through holes, you could make custom sized square 
broaches to push through.

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Rent space on the tower for cell phone and wireless internet antennas. That's 
what the grain elevator across the street from me did, top of one building has 
phone antennas all around it.
 

On Friday, May 11, 2018, 6:46:50 AM MDT, Erik Christiansen 
 wrote:  
 
 On 11.05.18 07:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 11 May 2018 03:32:39 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up

> I'm not that high either, 1000-1100' maybe. The "mountain" our old ntsc 
> transmitter is on since 1955 or so, is called Fisher Hill, 1620 feet at 
> the base of a 509' tower and antenna. Costs more to take it down than 
> its worth as salvage, so they are keeping the lights on. I'm the light 
> watcher/failure reporter as I can see it from my place. :)

Sounds like Entropy is the feller who'll bring it down. (Doesn't charge
much, but leaves ya with the clean-up.) Seems like you're out of range
when it happens. That's kinda handy.

  
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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Like these? Transmission Gear Kit | Steel Gear Kit - LittleMachineShop.com

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On Friday, May 11, 2018, 5:46:09 AM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
Challenge the machine?  Understatement.  Stall the motor and break the 
plastic gears. And I've not seen a set of metal gears to fit the g0704 
being offered.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 May 2018 09:22:16 Ken Strauss wrote:

> You'll need a funny stud since most drill chucks are 3/8-inch NF and
> most small T-nuts are 3/8-inch NC.
>
Already thought of that.

I figure a T nut is easy enough to make. Or I've the pi controlled 
Sheldon and can make the short stud easy enough.

Or, and I like this even better as this solves the location of x=y=0 on 
the table forever, drill and tap a hole in the table for 3/8 NF. That 
way the chuck will always be mounted to a known x=y=0. Plus or minus the 
uncertainty of my home switches, which appear to be within a thou for 
repeatability.  And when the chuck is removed, the table is still flat 
enough for the girls I've gone with if I've knocked off the threading's 
ridges with a flattened Arkansas file. This table isn't exactly a virgin 
now due to some miss-calcs now & then. :)

[snippage]

Thanks Ken.


-- 
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--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Ken Strauss]

You'll need a funny stud since most drill chucks are 3/8-inch NF and most
small T-nuts are 3/8-inch NC.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 9:17 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs
>
> On Friday 11 May 2018 08:42:58 Erik Christiansen wrote:
>
> > On 11.05.18 07:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Friday 11 May 2018 03:32:39 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > > A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up
> > >
> > > > to much cost. The last boxful I bought was M3 to M10, IIRC. You
> > > > might do better buying plastic bags of each size, for quantity.
> > >
> > > Thats what I'm going to do, something with a bit of length so an
> > > allen or bristol wrench has a decent chance of driving it well. I
> > > just need to get off my duff and get a few boxes ordered. 100 count
> > > boxes.
> >
> > E, vertical hold is slipping now. AIUI, you're putting the tap hat
> > into an R8 collet, so the grubscrews can't be longer than the wall of
> > the tap hat. Mebbe that just means you're going for a significantly
> > bigger collet to give room for the longer grubscrews. I think I have
> > picture lock again. I'll have to do that too when I get the bigger
> > sizes done.
>
> I made all the brass things from 6' of 7/8" brass rod stock. put a 4mm cap
> screw in the side with about 2mm of the cap sticking out, slides into a
cut
> about 7mm wide and 9mm deep I made in 3 of the korean R8-7/8 collets. The
> whole thing when inserted into the R8, sits with the bottom nominally
flush
> with the bottom of the R8. So I'm not using up the vertical clearance with
> excessive z length. So the brass plug is locked to the spindle, at least
till the
> 4mm cap shears off. Next is to drill the brass and install the grubscrews.
I
> figure on doing the thru drilling while they are mounted in the spindle,
with a
> drill bit in a drill chuck, but the chuck locked into a table groove and
the xy
> drive set so it center drills the brass. Thats picky as visibility is
poor, but once
> thats located, it should be findable again. The chuck has a 3/8" thread,
so a
> short stud in a t-nut should hold it fixed on the table.
>
> > ...
> >
> > > I'm not that high either, 1000-1100' maybe. The "mountain" our old
> > > ntsc transmitter is on since 1955 or so, is called Fisher Hill, 1620
> > > feet at the base of a 509' tower and antenna. Costs more to take it
> > > down than its worth as salvage, so they are keeping the lights on.
> > > I'm the light watcher/failure reporter as I can see it from my
> > > place. :)
> >
> > Sounds like Entropy is the feller who'll bring it down. (Doesn't
> > charge much, but leaves ya with the clean-up.) Seems like you're out
> > of range when it happens. That's kinda handy.
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> >most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 May 2018 08:42:58 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 11.05.18 07:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 11 May 2018 03:32:39 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up
> >
> > > to much cost. The last boxful I bought was M3 to M10, IIRC. You
> > > might do better buying plastic bags of each size, for quantity.
> >
> > Thats what I'm going to do, something with a bit of length so an
> > allen or bristol wrench has a decent chance of driving it well. I
> > just need to get off my duff and get a few boxes ordered. 100 count
> > boxes.
>
> E, vertical hold is slipping now. AIUI, you're putting the tap hat
> into an R8 collet, so the grubscrews can't be longer than the wall of
> the tap hat. Mebbe that just means you're going for a significantly
> bigger collet to give room for the longer grubscrews. I think I have
> picture lock again. I'll have to do that too when I get the bigger
> sizes done.

I made all the brass things from 6' of 7/8" brass rod stock. put a 4mm 
cap screw in the side with about 2mm of the cap sticking out, slides 
into a cut about 7mm wide and 9mm deep I made in 3 of the korean R8-7/8 
collets. The whole thing when inserted into the R8, sits with the bottom 
nominally flush with the bottom of the R8. So I'm not using up the 
vertical clearance with excessive z length. So the brass plug is locked 
to the spindle, at least till the 4mm cap shears off. Next is to drill 
the brass and install the grubscrews. I figure on doing the thru 
drilling while they are mounted in the spindle, with a drill bit in a 
drill chuck, but the chuck locked into a table groove and the xy drive 
set so it center drills the brass. Thats picky as visibility is poor, 
but once thats located, it should be findable again. The chuck has a 
3/8" thread, so a short stud in a t-nut should hold it fixed on the 
table.

> ...
>
> > I'm not that high either, 1000-1100' maybe. The "mountain" our old
> > ntsc transmitter is on since 1955 or so, is called Fisher Hill, 1620
> > feet at the base of a 509' tower and antenna. Costs more to take it
> > down than its worth as salvage, so they are keeping the lights on.
> > I'm the light watcher/failure reporter as I can see it from my
> > place. :)
>
> Sounds like Entropy is the feller who'll bring it down. (Doesn't
> charge much, but leaves ya with the clean-up.) Seems like you're out
> of range when it happens. That's kinda handy.
>
> Erik
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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-- 
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--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Erik Christiansen]

On 11.05.18 07:42, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 11 May 2018 03:32:39 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up
> > to much cost. The last boxful I bought was M3 to M10, IIRC. You might
> > do better buying plastic bags of each size, for quantity.
> >
> Thats what I'm going to do, something with a bit of length so an allen or 
> bristol wrench has a decent chance of driving it well. I just need to 
> get off my duff and get a few boxes ordered. 100 count boxes.

E, vertical hold is slipping now. AIUI, you're putting the tap hat
into an R8 collet, so the grubscrews can't be longer than the wall of
the tap hat. Mebbe that just means you're going for a significantly
bigger collet to give room for the longer grubscrews. I think I have
picture lock again. I'll have to do that too when I get the bigger sizes
done.

...

> I'm not that high either, 1000-1100' maybe. The "mountain" our old ntsc 
> transmitter is on since 1955 or so, is called Fisher Hill, 1620 feet at 
> the base of a 509' tower and antenna. Costs more to take it down than 
> its worth as salvage, so they are keeping the lights on. I'm the light 
> watcher/failure reporter as I can see it from my place. :)

Sounds like Entropy is the feller who'll bring it down. (Doesn't charge
much, but leaves ya with the clean-up.) Seems like you're out of range
when it happens. That's kinda handy.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 11 May 2018 03:32:39 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 11.05.18 01:25, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 10 May 2018 22:23:56 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > > But, whoa. I'm also not fully across the need for bore adjustment.
> > > As taps are ground from a few stock sizes, only those few sizes of
> > > tap hat bore are needed. While I found a drill close enough for
> > > one size, and bored the other, if I had to make a bunch of the
> > > latter, I'd probably make up a D-bit reamer, and keep it with the
> > > tap hat kit.
> >
> > Looking at my tap collection, I'd guess it will take not less than
> > 10 different drills to bore the thru holes to fit the tap shanks. I
> > have a very mixed origin tap collection, And the metric stuff all is
> > Chinese, quality from junk to very good.
>
> Hmmm. Then I'd bore the odd ones to size ... when I needed 'em. Just
> keep enough brass sleeves to hand, drilled out enough for the small
> boring bar to go in.
>
> > And I'm trying to dream up a way to mill a square in the rear, where
> > the square but of the tap will be, and since I have one of those
> > kilowatt induction heaters, figure out how to pour a lower melting
> > point alloy of some sort to fix the square tap butt into the square
> > in the rear of the brass holder, as thats a bunch easier than all
> > that drilling and tapping for set screws. High silver alloy solder
> > comes to mind as its some pretty tough stuff. But would that heat,
> > maybe 850-900F kill the tap?
>
> Urrgh. Wet flannel around the business end of the tap ought to protect
> against the brutality inflicted on the other end, but there are better
> ways to skin a cat than with a flamethrower.
>
Chuckle. I figure thats the best test to find out if the cat is really 
dead though.

> How's this size up?: Radially slot the top end of the tap hat body to
> provide two internal flats to grip the tap square, then drill/bore
> from the other end to take the tap. If you overshoot, then the middle
> of each flat will go, but the outer third or so on each side will
> remain unless the square end of the tap has been made unnaturally
> small.

I don't have a tap whose diagonal across the square isn't a few thou 
smaller than its shank.

> But hold on, what keeps the tap captive then? I'm sticking with 
> the grubscrews.
>
> > If I do the set screw thing, I'll need them in 2mm to 6mm, or maybe
> > even 8mm for the biggest ones.
>
> Well, you could MIG tack weld the top of the taps into steel tap hats
> - that wouldn't conduct much heat to the other end, but that's rough
> treatment too. A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up
> to much cost. The last boxful I bought was M3 to M10, IIRC. You might
> do better buying plastic bags of each size, for quantity.
>
Thats what I'm going to do, something with a bit of length so an allen or 
bristol wrench has a decent chance of driving it well. I just need to 
get off my duff and get a few boxes ordered. 100 count boxes.

> > Thats not counting a 20 kg bag of 1.5" to 4"ers for pipe I found
> > while cleaning up the old home place after Dee's brother died. None
> > in good shape, broken teeth etc. He worked for one of the local gas
> > companies as a mech at a pumping station.

> Rigid tapping with the 4"er might challenge the machine ... not least
> getting the job under the spindle, I figure.

Challenge the machine?  Understatement.  Stall the motor and break the 
plastic gears. And I've not seen a set of metal gears to fit the g0704 
being offered.

> > Stay warm Erik, it should be getting toward keeping the wood stove
> > crackling in your neck of the woods. Its been up as high as 89F here
> > already.
>
> The hills here are smaller than yours (I'm only at 600' altitude), but
> with 40F less than at your place, the heater's earning its keep
> already.
>
> Erik

I'm not that high either, 1000-1100' maybe. The "mountain" our old ntsc 
transmitter is on since 1955 or so, is called Fisher Hill, 1620 feet at 
the base of a 509' tower and antenna. Costs more to take it down than 
its worth as salvage, so they are keeping the lights on. I'm the light 
watcher/failure reporter as I can see it from my place. :)

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Tap Hats [Was: Re: More on er-20 stuffs

[Erik Christiansen]

On 11.05.18 01:25, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 10 May 2018 22:23:56 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > But, whoa. I'm also not fully across the need for bore adjustment. As
> > taps are ground from a few stock sizes, only those few sizes of tap
> > hat bore are needed. While I found a drill close enough for one size,
> > and bored the other, if I had to make a bunch of the latter, I'd
> > probably make up a D-bit reamer, and keep it with the tap hat kit.
> 
> Looking at my tap collection, I'd guess it will take not less than 10 
> different drills to bore the thru holes to fit the tap shanks. I have a 
> very mixed origin tap collection, And the metric stuff all is Chinese, 
> quality from junk to very good.

Hmmm. Then I'd bore the odd ones to size ... when I needed 'em. Just
keep enough brass sleeves to hand, drilled out enough for the small
boring bar to go in. 

> And I'm trying to dream up a way to mill a square in the rear, where the 
> square but of the tap will be, and since I have one of those kilowatt 
> induction heaters, figure out how to pour a lower melting point alloy of 
> some sort to fix the square tap butt into the square in the rear of the 
> brass holder, as thats a bunch easier than all that drilling and tapping 
> for set screws. High silver alloy solder comes to mind as its some 
> pretty tough stuff. But would that heat, maybe 850-900F kill the tap?

Urrgh. Wet flannel around the business end of the tap ought to protect
against the brutality inflicted on the other end, but there are better
ways to skin a cat than with a flamethrower.

How's this size up?: Radially slot the top end of the tap hat body to
provide two internal flats to grip the tap square, then drill/bore from
the other end to take the tap. If you overshoot, then the middle of each
flat will go, but the outer third or so on each side will remain unless
the square end of the tap has been made unnaturally small. But hold on,
what keeps the tap captive then? I'm sticking with the grubscrews.

> If I do the set screw thing, I'll need them in 2mm to 6mm, or maybe even 
> 8mm for the biggest ones.

Well, you could MIG tack weld the top of the taps into steel tap hats -
that wouldn't conduct much heat to the other end, but that's rough
treatment too. A box or three of grubscrews off fleabay won't add up to
much cost. The last boxful I bought was M3 to M10, IIRC. You might do
better buying plastic bags of each size, for quantity.

> Thats not counting a 20 kg bag of 1.5" to 4"ers for pipe I found while
> cleaning up the old home place after Dee's brother died. None in good
> shape, broken teeth etc. He worked for one of the local gas companies
> as a mech at a pumping station.

Rigid tapping with the 4"er might challenge the machine ... not least
getting the job under the spindle, I figure.

...

> I didn't like the looks of the sky when I left to get a loaf of bread and 
> a paper and something I could nuke for our dinner, and had to sit out 
> the worst of it trapped in my pickup in the grocery store parking lot.
> And the same back at the house. I got soaked in the 50 feet plus opening 
> the back door of the king cab to retrieve the sacks, run for the house. 
> 30 minutes later, full sunshine again. Crazy weather.

Seems to be more of that about these days. Forecast for tomorrow is one
month's rain in a day for Gippsland. I'm staying here. (They need it -
desperately, for stockwater and domestic rainwater tanks. Too late for
pastures, though.)

> Stay warm Erik, it should be getting toward keeping the wood stove 
> crackling in your neck of the woods. Its been up as high as 89F here 
> already.

The hills here are smaller than yours (I'm only at 600' altitude), but
with 40F less than at your place, the heater's earning its keep already.

Erik

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