-Original Message-
From: es-discuss-boun...@mozilla.org [mailto:es-discuss-boun...@mozilla.org] On
Behalf Of Brendan Eich
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 22:57
As noted, they started out that way 17 years ago. I think WebIDL and
interface-based method definition made onload, e.g.,
On 8/10/12 8:17 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
The least painful solution to the immediate FF issue may be to make
indexedDB an own property of the window object rather than an inherited
property. Perhaps do that for all variable-like properties (those that
down need real get/set logic) of the
On 8/10/12 9:00 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
One potential solution that I think we should keep in mind is to
declare that WebIDL properties *on global objects* doesn't go on the
prototype chain, but rather on the global objects themselves.
...
It also has the advantage that Chrome already does
On 8/11/12 9:16 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
As bz and others point out, the object detection w/ var pattern can
arise for operations, e.g. for requestAnimationFrame, using the same
var requestAnimationFrame = window.mozRequestAnimationFrame || ... ||
window.requestAnimationFrame;
pattern. So
On 8/11/12 9:46 PM, Cameron McCormack wrote:
1. If we don't do that auto-forwarding, does Window.prototype still need
to exist? What should window.__proto__ be?
That's a good question. What is it in current UAs? At least some don't
have a Window at all...
2. If Window.prototype still
On 8/11/12 9:48 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
I see, this makes perfect sense when onload is viewed simply as a passive
property.
That stops being an option once addEventListener also appears, for what
it's worth.
It is turning into an active side-effecting registration mechanism that
On 8/11/12 10:17 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
Requirements on the global object are specified here:
http://ecma-international.org/ecma-262/5.1/#sec-15.1 It says that the
value [[Prototype]] is implementation defined, but in practice in needs
to inherit from Object.prototype. So,
On 8/11/12 10:42 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
However, implementations (at least Gecko) give window a proto chain that
is interesting:
Indeed. For one thing, we haven't switched Window to the new bindings yet.
This is from a stable-release Firefox Web Console. I believe it matches
a real DOM
On 8/11/12 10:57 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
I think WebIDL and interface-based method definition made onload, e.g.,
predefined on
window objects, or more recently on Window.prototype. Was this useful?
It's required for web compat, as I said earlier in this thread. They
_could_ perhaps be
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
On 8/10/12 8:17 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote:
...
but isn't widespread use of inherited setters to implement DOM
properties fairly recent?
No. Gecko has done it all along, and IE and Opera have certainly done it
for
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/10/12 9:00 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
One potential solution that I think we should keep in mind is to
declare that WebIDL properties *on global objects* doesn't go on the
prototype chain, but rather on the global objects themselves.
...
It also has the advantage that
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/11/12 9:16 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
As bz and others point out, the object detection w/ var pattern can
arise for operations, e.g. for requestAnimationFrame, using the same
var requestAnimationFrame = window.mozRequestAnimationFrame || ... ||
On 8/12/12 1:27 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
IOW, I think your requestAnimationFrame var+object-detection example is
a good one. No difference in principle from the indexedDB case, and
possibly only just luck that it has not bitten yet.
True
Is there a WebIDL style guide for helping decide
On 8/12/12 1:31 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
There's still a problem for getter-less attributes including indexedDB, so
something *still* has to change there!
I'm not sure I follow this. If indexedDB is on the global as an own
property, what issue remains with it?
The global needs to be a flat
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/12/12 1:31 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
There's still a problem for getter-less attributes including
indexedDB, so
[setter-less]
something *still* has to change there!
I'm not sure I follow this. If indexedDB is on the global as an own
property, what issue remains
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/11/12 10:42 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
However, implementations (at least Gecko) give window a proto chain that
is interesting:
Indeed. For one thing, we haven't switched Window to the new bindings
yet.
Could you lay out the new chain here, e.g.
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/11/12 10:57 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
I think WebIDL and interface-based method definition made onload,
e.g., predefined on
window objects, or more recently on Window.prototype. Was this useful?
It's required for web compat, as I said earlier in this thread. They
One incompatibility in current implementations is that
Object.getPrototypeOf(window) in Opera is Object.prototype whereas the rest
have something like Window.prototype (Window doesn't exist in Opera).
An interesting consequence of mutable __proto__ and having the global
variable record be a
An even more interesting scenario is something like `global.__proto__ =
Proxy.create()`
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Brandon Benvie wrote:
An even more interesting scenario is something like `global.__proto__
= Proxy.create()`
Yes, I mentioned proxies on the global's proto-chain (and mutable
__proto__) up-thread, here:
https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2012-August/024483.html
Quote: We
On 8/12/12 1:59 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/11/12 10:42 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
However, implementations (at least Gecko) give window a proto chain that
is interesting:
Indeed. For one thing, we haven't switched Window to the new bindings
yet.
Could you lay out the
On 8/12/12 3:02 PM, Brandon Benvie wrote:
An even more interesting scenario is something like `global.__proto__ =
Proxy.create()`
That's basically what the Global Scope Polluter does. That's certainly
how I plan to implement it in Gecko in the WebIDL bindings:
Window.prototype.__proto__
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/12/12 3:02 PM, Brandon Benvie wrote:
An even more interesting scenario is something like `global.__proto__ =
Proxy.create()`
That's basically what the Global Scope Polluter does. That's
certainly how I plan to implement it in Gecko in the WebIDL bindings:
On 8/12/12 4:31 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
However, check me here: the GSP makes own global properties on demand,
when names of DOM elements that come from name= and id= attributes (or
just id=? I forget) are used as identifier expressions.
That's what it does in Gecko's impl right now. It has a
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Brandon Benvie
bran...@brandonbenvie.comwrote:
One incompatibility in current implementations is that
Object.getPrototypeOf(window) in Opera is Object.prototype whereas the rest
have something like Window.prototype (Window doesn't exist in Opera).
You may
On 8/12/12 4:55 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:
There was a bunch of previous discussion about this at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2012JanMar/0010.html
and following, though it's not clear to me now whether the solution we
decided on allows var to shadow these named props as
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/12/12 4:31 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
However, check me here: the GSP makes own global properties on demand,
when names of DOM elements that come from name= and id= attributes (or
just id=? I forget) are used as identifier expressions.
That's what it does in Gecko's
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
Note that data in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2012JanMar/0033.html
suggests that IE also implements the erratum to 5.1 we were talking
about up-thread. Oh what a tangled web we weave.
Yes, current thinking is that we should take the erratum
On 8/12/12 5:23 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
On 8/12/12 4:31 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
However, check me here: the GSP makes own global properties on demand,
when names of DOM elements that come from name= and id= attributes (or
just id=? I forget) are used as identifier
On 8/12/12 5:29 PM, Brendan Eich wrote:
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
Note that data in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2012JanMar/0033.html
suggests that IE also implements the erratum to 5.1 we were talking
about up-thread. Oh what a tangled web we weave.
Yes, current
Boris Zbarsky wrote:
But name collisions if the
HTML uses a common id= value and the JS wants that for a global var seem
scarily likely.
Yes, using the GSP is more or less a recipe for fail. That's why I'd
hoped to restrict it to quirks mode pages. Ah, well.
I was with you on that. I
Boris Zbarsky:
Per the current spec proposal, the GSP lives on the proto chain and
exposes the various id/name stuff as own properties on itself, with the
usual caveats about checking up the proto chain first that DOM named
access has. See
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