[ISSDG] Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...

2000-12-05 Thread Bruce Moomaw
h a minority of scientists think they may have been higher during that era too). The fact that dinosaurs evolved to much bigger sizes than mammals may have been due to the fact that -- because they were cold-blooded -- they got more of an advantage out of having huge unwieldly bodies than manmmals do, because those huge bodies would make it easier for them to control their internal temperatures. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...

2000-12-08 Thread Bruce Moomaw
idn't the equally huge crawling bugs of the Carboniferous Era hold on? They didn't have the clumsy-flight disadvantage of those huge dragonflies -- there's no obvious competitive-evolutionary reason why we don't still have two-foot cockroaches and 6-foot millipedes around. It see

Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...

2000-12-08 Thread Bruce Moomaw
missed you, our giant gadfly! > >-- JHB Come on over to Jason Perry's "Jupiter List" and "ISSDG" discussion groups and you can see Clements and I tearing at each other and questioning each other's ancestry on a regular basis. It's wonderful. Bruce Mo

Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...

2000-12-08 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Evan James Dembskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, December 08, 2000 5:27 AM Subject: RE: On The Rise of Oxygen... >Bruce, > > >> Come on over to Jason Perry's "Jupiter List" and "ISSDG" discussion groups >> and you

Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...

2000-12-08 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ket. Apparently its maximum length is 90 mm, though -- which, I think, is still somewhat smaller than the African Goliath beetle and maybe one or two other huge insect species as well.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

How the Alien Grinch Stole Christmas

2000-12-09 Thread Bruce Moomaw
that virtually every intelligent race in the Universe destroys itself with nuclear or (more likely) biological weapons (deliberately or accidentally) within at most a few centuries of discovering electricity. Certainly our own race is easily capable of doing such a thing without outside assistance

Re: Beating Up on a Young Earth, and Possibly Life

2000-12-14 Thread Bruce Moomaw
rrently >thought. Levison is toying with the idea that Uranus and Neptune >started out between Jupiter and Saturn, where his simulations suggest >they could have orbited for hundreds of millions of years before >flying out into the lingering debris beyond Saturn and triggering a >late heavy b

Re: Beating Up on a Young Earth, and Possibly Life

2000-12-14 Thread Bruce Moomaw
uld have been dragged along and accelerated by the tugs and thus spiraled considerably outwards. (Theories vary on which direction Saturn would have moved, although its movement would have been fairly small in either direction. There's also some belief that Mars might have been slowed down eno

Re: Scientists Decode Genes of Microbe That Thrives in Toxic Metals

2000-12-16 Thread Bruce Moomaw
tire > human race) some time in this century. That deliberately mutated -- and > almost unkillable -- version of the Caulerpa seaweed that got loose from an > aquarium and now seems to be wiping out the entire Mediterranean seafloor > ecosystem is just the first pebble in the avalanche. > &

Re: Scientists Decode Genes of Microbe That Thrives in Toxic Metals

2000-12-17 Thread Bruce Moomaw
hance), that somehow makes it more likely that it will come down tails than heads on the next flip. The fact that we happen to be the most recent humans does absolutely nothing in itself to make it likely that we're about to kick the bucket. We have REAL problems to worry about. Bruce Moom

Re: If you thought warp drive was weird, try jolt propulsion

2000-12-19 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ays. "There are a lot of >unresolved physics issues to address." > >Ian Sample > > From New Scientist magazine, 09 December 2000. > I saw this earlier, and it didn't make sense then either. What the hell happened to Newton's Third Law? How do you keep getting

Re: On The Rise of Oxygen...

2000-12-08 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, December 08, 2000 1:43 AM Subject: Re: On The Rise of Oxygen... > >Bruce Moomaw wrote: >> >&g

Re: Scientists Decode Genes of Microbe That Thrives in Toxic Metals

2000-12-15 Thread Bruce Moomaw
tury. That deliberately mutated -- and almost unkillable -- version of the Caulerpa seaweed that got loose from an aquarium and now seems to be wiping out the entire Mediterranean seafloor ecosystem is just the first pebble in the avalanche. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Ice

Dah, dah, DAAAAH.....

2001-01-03 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ne of them reports, "I feel my intelligence growing by the moment." Maybe we could get Bush to approach the thing... www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/01/02/monolithmystery.ap/index.html Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project infor

Re: Impact Craters

2001-01-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
no doubt has occurred to a hell of a lot of geologists. (It should be kept in mind, though, that one big feature in Australia for which most geologists had rejected an impact origin has recently been shown to really BE a impact crater.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mail

Re: The Sound of One Cell Growing

2001-01-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
Europa who hops up and sings "Hello, >My Baby.") > > Just as long as it's not wearing a Roman war helmet and a pair of tennis shoes. (By the way, given their fondness for Warner Brothers cartoons, why hasn't somebody in this Group proposed blasting through Europa's i

Re: Europa drilling

2001-01-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
providing the several kilowatts of power that even a small Cryobot needs.) However, a laser mounted on a Europa surface lander does definitely have the ability to vaporize material up to several dozen meters from the lander -- and either a flash-spectrum spectrometer, or a mass spectrometer capable

Re: Europa drilling

2001-01-12 Thread Bruce Moomaw
a's ice layer isn't thick enough. (And trailing a communications cable back up through the ice is troublesome and heavy enough -- the weight and vulnerability of a power cable would be prohibitive.) Like it or not (and I don't), we seem to be stuck with nuclear power sources for any Europa drilling effort. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Golden Disasters

2001-01-14 Thread Bruce Moomaw
have also crashed on landing had both ships flown.) So 11 people have died on manned spaceflights -- but the three men on Soyuz-11 still have the unhappy distinction of being the only human beings ever actually to die in outer space. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mai

News item

2001-01-14 Thread Bruce Moomaw
quot;To Build a Planet" branch of NASA's latest Solar System Exploration Roadmap has been greeted with general Bronx cheers, on the grounds that its missions all fit better in other branches of the program. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROT

Another news item

2001-01-14 Thread Bruce Moomaw
pulsion Implications of a New Source for the Einstein Equations Unfortunately, only the titles of the abstracts seem to be on the Web so far -- but I'll now give the whole program a more thorough going-over. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROT

JPL's Cryobot takes shape!

2001-01-16 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ntarctica's Lake Vostok may have been an exposed surface lake that has since been covered by the ice cap (a theory that considerably increases the chances that lakes under Mars' polar caps may still hold extant life, and may also increase the odds of life in Europa's ice). Bruce Mo

Re: 11 New Moons For Jupiter

2001-01-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
cientific importance whatsoever. Maybe you should start pointing out to your kids that these question really ARE losing their meaning now when we talk about the Solar System -- that's a pretty interesting fact in itself. After all, a lot of the current confusion is due to the fact that we'

Re: E.T. or Alien? The Character of Other Intelligence

2001-01-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
I submit that what most people dislike about the use of RTGs for space exploration is the prospect of having the stuff sprinkled on their own heads, thank you. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Two weeks to Mars?!?

2001-01-22 Thread Bruce Moomaw
probable fuel that will be getting us to Mars and back," Ronen said. "I >think that we are now far enough advanced to interest international space >programs in taking a closer look at americium-based space vehicles." > Before I cheerfully say that using this stuff in

Re: Two weeks to Mars?!?

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
i-experimental 'astronaut's playground' and >showcase of world cooperation to an efficient manufacturer of Americium >pellets is a broad stretch indeed. > This IS a serious concern -- as I've said, I'd like to know just how radioactive this stuff is in non-criti

Re: 11 New Moons For Jupiter

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
I understand, starting to be some wrangling about precisely this issue among biologists. While the definition of "species" seems to be fairly straightforward (two different species can't breed to produce fertile children), every bigger level of the tree by which we categorize living

Re: 11 New Moons For Jupiter

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
he days of Galileo! > >Who's with me?! > Not me, I'm afraid. Being a silly old fogy, I'm much more concerned with more trivial issues, such as the fact that the Electoral College has just appointed the loser of our Presidential election to be the winner. Bruce Moomaw ==

Re:Two weeks to Mars?!?

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
, it has a half-life of fully 600 million years, making its radiation output only about 1/2000 as intense as plutonium-239. So a uranium reactor would be a lot heavier -- and probably more expensive -- than an americium one, but it would probably also be a lot safer to launch.) Bruce Mooma

Re: Two weeks to Mars?!?

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
se the stuff in very thick, virtually crash-proof and explosion-proof canisters, and unload it only after the carrier ship is in a high Earth orbit 1000 km or more up -- so that even if it accidentally got left there, it would naturally stay in orbit for tens of thousands of years, by which time its

Re: Two weeks to Mars?!?

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
s flat. I think we can safely assume that the acceleration level they're talking about for this 2-week Mars trip is much less than 1 G at any point. (By the way, I did all these calculations with pencil and paper in a few minutes because I didn't want to be bothered to go get the calculato

Re: 11 New Moons For Jupiter

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
hey won't be able to do it much longer. (And then, maybe, all those unfortunate Kuiper Belt objects that are still unnamed despite the fact that they're huge will finally have their day.) Bruce Moomaw >--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> >> > Well, if you

Re: 11 New Moons For Jupiter

2001-01-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
his wife's name was Charlene, therby dooming astronomers for all time to come to confusing it with "Chiron". Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Merging The Mail Lists

2001-01-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
t;> participation and keep discussions together in one thread. >> >> Regards, >> Simon > I support this enthusiastically (although it still leaves the problem of whether Larry or Jason will be managing the unified list). Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Ice

Re: Two weeks to Mars?!?

2001-01-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
;>radioactive this stuff is in non-critical form before I started launching >>it >>into Earth orbit. (And I find it hard to believe that original article >>when >>it says that only "a few kg" of americium could provide enough fission >>power >>to pr

Two weeks to Mars: a correction

2001-01-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
I see that in my reply to Fritz Griffith, I accidentally trimmed out his own message -- which reduces my response to total gibberish. Here's the corrected version: -Original Message- From: Bruce Moomaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Icepick Europa Mailing List <[EMAIL PR

Re: Mercury, the Rodney Dangerfield of planets, is finally getting respect

2001-01-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
caps and the possible shield volcano which Earth-based radar may have fuzzily detected on Mercury's unknown side, it goes on to say: "What [Dr. Robert Strom] finds truly intriguing, however, are mysterious radar signatures that defy description -- a collection of bright dots some 1200 miles in

The Europa Focus Group meeting

2001-01-29 Thread Bruce Moomaw
so, keep in mind that the abstracts for the next Lunar and Planetary Science Conference meeting are all supposed to be put on the Web Friday www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2001 ). Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project informatio

Re: I hope no one has bought Europa (yet)!

2001-02-14 Thread Bruce Moomaw
? Someone did. And someday >> someone will go through with it for the stunt value >> alone. Yuck. >> Yep -- the 1958 story was called "Watch This Space", and the sodium jet was ostensibly to produce a giant artificial aurora to study the Moon's atmosphere. As thin

The Blob grows further

2001-02-16 Thread Bruce Moomaw
27;off ramps' designed to halt station assembly short of what is now understood as completion." Comment is superfluous. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: NASA Watch comments on the Fox Apollo crapumentary

2001-02-16 Thread Bruce Moomaw
at Rupert Murdoch isn't willing to put on the air. How about a new Fox special, "When Right-Wing Pornographers Attack"? (Of course, given the other networks' increasing willingness to devote their news magazines to true-crime tabloid schlock since they've been taken o

Re: NASA Watch comments on the Fox Apollo crapumentary

2001-02-16 Thread Bruce Moomaw
l knowledge -- the average person remains just as ignorant of elementary science as ever. If this keeps up, scientists and engineers will end up as a sort of High Priesthood, probably complete with tall headdresses and human sacrifices. What do you do about this? Damned if I know. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Virus alert!

2001-02-17 Thread Bruce Moomaw
automatically through his E-mail outlet. Fortunately, my trusty McAfee shield intercepted the virus -- but if you get such a message, for God's sake don't open it. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information an

The juggling begins

2001-02-19 Thread Bruce Moomaw
harder for Congress to cancel it -- and the AW article above sems to confirm this. I truly believe NASA when it says it won't pull a nickel away from its other programs, though. After all, if you can't trust NASA, who can you trust? (Don't answer that.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscri

Re: the Fox Moon "documentary"

2001-02-19 Thread Bruce Moomaw
x27;s not even trying to go in for responsible journalism. "If it sells, it's good" is his philosophy -- and the less that responsible journalists fight this muck, the faster it will spread. (Its spread may be inevitable anyway, but we ought to at least make some effort against it.

Re: The juggling begins

2001-02-19 Thread Bruce Moomaw
strangled because it made the Space Station look bad). As for those spacegoing millionaires, it's going to take an awful lot of them to pay that $100 billion bill. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: the Fox Moon "documentary"

2001-02-19 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Jeff Foust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, February 19, 2001 3:49 PM Subject: Re: the Fox Moon "documentary" > >on 2/19/01 5:45 PM, Bruce Moomaw at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>

Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough!

2001-02-19 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ce it's always seemed likely that long-dead but extremely well-preserved Europan microbes may be preserved in the ice even near its top.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Europa for naval architects

2001-02-20 Thread Bruce Moomaw
se radiation has hopelessly scrambled and disrupted any biological organic compounds that are in the ice -- but how much deeper than that do we need to go, at least at first? Later on, when I have the time, I'll try to provide you with a list of URLs on these topics (including the best overall scientific descriptions of Europa that we have up to now). Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Red dwarf stars: Friendly to life?

2001-02-20 Thread Bruce Moomaw
is exactly what happened to Mars, according to the currently favored theory). So -- trillion-year solar lifetime or not -- red-dwarf planets don't stay habitable for all that much longer than Earth will. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Let's Go To Pluto and Europa!

2001-02-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ed cost of such an ion-drive module would be a negative point -- but one abstract at the just-completed Outer Solar System Missions Workshop: www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/outerplanets2001/pdf/4103.pdf ... suggests that a new, low-powered ion drive which NASA is working on could allow the Pluto mission to

Re: near-surface Europan nutrients

2001-02-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
prisingly concentrated solutions of sulfuric acid. And Chyba and E. Pierazzo also suggest that a substantial quantity of organic compounds have been dumped onto Europa's surface, from its very start, by impacting comets -- providing another source of organics which could both serve as the starting point for the evolution of life on the ancient, warmer Europa, and as an additional food source for modern germs. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: The juggling begins

2001-02-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
cidentally succeeded big-time -- has therefore provided false encouragement to generations of cranks since. The fact remains that we still have a duty to try to identify the ideas most (and least) likely to succeed. Guess which category I think the Space Station falls into? Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Oh yes, I'm the Great Perturber...

2001-02-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ting the flawless success of its coming test of the "Project Blackout" bomb to turn the Sun off for just a few minutes: "This Department will not be deterred from the imminent test by the accidental destruction of the planet Mercury during a previous attempt. This accident has bee

Re: The juggling begins

2001-02-21 Thread Bruce Moomaw
of world governmental organization with genuine teeth in it is the only possible hope for minimizing this kind of thing, contrary to the fond fairy tales of the libertarians. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny

2001-02-22 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ave happened as a single extremely rare event on Earth or Mars, which then seeded the other world. But if life is found on Europa, it almost certainly was a separate event, and therefore represents virtual proof that life does very often evolve in the Universe. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny

2001-02-22 Thread Bruce Moomaw
verall concern would be simply that they might find some part of Earth's environment to their liking and turn into more or less serious pests. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny

2001-02-22 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ple to it, and yanked it. But Donald DiVincenzo -- the co-designer of Antaeus -- says he himself has serious doubts as to whether it would be justified. Don't forget that we have lots of germ-containment labs on Earth right now doing a good job of containing large quantities of microbes that w

Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny

2001-02-22 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: TAYLOR, MICHAEL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:19 PM Subject: RE: Microoganisms and Phylogeny > >Re Bruce Moomaw": > >"But if life is found o

Re: Let's Go To Pluto and Europa!

2001-02-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Let's Go To Pluto and Europa! > > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Moomaw

Re: Red dwarf stars: Friendly to life?

2001-02-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Red dwarf stars: Friendly to life? > > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Mooma

Re: Why Go There?

2001-02-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
about the tremendous amount of public interest Galileo's photos of Earth during its return approaches to the planet would draw, and how they would do their part to Change the Way Humans Look at the World. Well. Know anyone out there who's mentioned those pictures at all? Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny

2001-02-23 Thread Bruce Moomaw
the eight new candidate technologies that may be tested in Earth orbit by the upcoming Deep Space-6. After all, the current Mars sample-return mission already calls for such rendezvous and docking to be carried out in MARS orbit -- using U.S. equipment mounted on that French orbiter -- and so it wi

Re: Let's Go To Pluto and Europa!

2001-02-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, February 24, 2001 12:38 AM Subject: Re: Let's Go To Pluto and Europa! > > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Moomaw

Pearl Harbor??

2001-02-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Microoganisms and Phylogeny > > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Moomaw <[EMAIL PR

Re: Red dwarf stars: Friendly to life?

2001-02-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ill be. I am convinced that the plain and simple fact is that the existence of every intelligent race in this Universe is a short-lived fluke. The more power we accumulate, the easier it will be for even one lone nut to wreak wholesale havoc on his entire species. Our moral awareness, I think, is ver

Re: Moral Issues

2001-02-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
a" -- www.nationalacademies.org/ssb/europamenu.htm These, by the way (particularly the first one) are also splendid summaries of what we currently know and don't know about Europa at this point -- something Gail and Roberta should keep in mind. We are going to have to be very, very careful

Re: Lunar Cam 2001

2001-02-24 Thread Bruce Moomaw
lso spectacularly beautiful. Frankly, I think your Webcam idea would work a lot better for several very small and cheap Earth-orbiting satellites than for very long-distance whole-Earth shots, and I wouldn't be surprised to see just that in the near future. Bruce Moomaw Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

I'm flying...

2001-02-25 Thread Bruce Moomaw
the Solar System, of low gravity (only 1/7 of Earth's at Titan's surface) and dense atmosphere (4 times the density of Earth's at the surface), humans really could strap wings to their arms and fly there. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Europa submersible hypothetical

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
he serious possibility was raised that a Europa Cryobot, in the process of melting its way through even a few meters of ice, would find itself solidly encased in crystallized salts -- making a mechanical drill in the nose an equal necessity. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick

Re: Pearl Harbor??

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-- I had it completely backwards. Sorry. But the Japanese are unquestionably a lot more on the ball than the U.S. in working seriously on completely unmanned rendezvous and docking before we've even gotten around to it. (And the Russians, of course, have been routinely doing it for 34 ye

Re: Europa submersible hypothetical

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
dly anything that we need to know about Europa's composition, and that surface composition measurements are an extremely important part of any future Europa exploration program (and one which has been short-changed in the curent Europa Orbiter design). Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Europa submersible hypothetical

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
acid, elemental sulfur and/or sulfate salts. > >Bruce Moomaw > > >I'm still not convinced about the stinkiness of the ocean, Bruce, although >you're usually right about most things! ;-) Elemental sulfur is insoluble >in water and so would likely be found only in thick

Re: Europa submersible hypothetical

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-mail my contacts there to try to find out what was said. Finally, the National Academy of Sciences' "COMPLEX" committee recently held a meeting on planetary exploration, in which a draft of a set of recommendations about Europa was discussed -- although I have no idea what's in it. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Europan volcanism?

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
how that the extremely deep ocean which it unquestionably has will disperse its hot-water plume over far too big an area by the time it rises all the way up to the underside of the ice layer for it to have any major local effect on the structure of the ice crust. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscrib

Re: Europa's water-ice surface

2001-02-26 Thread Bruce Moomaw
nted out in some recent LPSC abstracts that magnesium sulfate and sodium carbonate (natron) can't BOTH exist in Europa's ocean -- because their solutions react with each other, producing magnesium carbonate (which is insoluble and would precipitate out as sediment) and sodium sulfate. B

Re: Europa submersible hypothetical

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
nd that you have to burn it WITH something, and Europa is singularly short on free oxygen (although it does have a little, thanks to the breakdown of water ice by Jupiter's radiation). I don't know what happens when you react sulfur with hydrogen peroxide (which Europa does have in considerable amounts). Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

The source of Europa's sulfur

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
uropa from Io over its lifetime. In short, whether Kargel is right or not, if Carlson is right Europa's ice crust and underlying ocean must both be very sulfurous -- and acidic -- indeed. Moreover, since H2SO4 very drastically lowers water's freezing point, this makes it all the more likely that Europa really does have a subsurface liquid ocean (and a very electrically conductive one), regardless of how much dissolved salts it also contains. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Sulfur elsewhere in the Jovian system

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
color of Jupiter's upper clouds might also have something to do with sulfur dumped into its atmosphere by Io over the eons, although it may well be that the total amount of Ionian sulfur deposited is far too little to have anything to do with Jupiter's still-mysterious cloud coloring. B

Sulfur and Kargel

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
Icarus 248:226. >> >> Dan Zeigler > >That was Icarus 148:226, and IDEAL wants $35 to view that article. Is there >anywhere I can read that free of charge? > Don't panic -- Kargel also detailed his ideas in several recent LPSC abstracts, which are available free on th

URL correction (again)

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 2:31 PM Subject: RE: The source of Europa's sulfur > >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Moomaw <[EMAIL PROTEC

ANOTHER URL correction

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
Make that www.copernicus.org/EGS/egsga/nice01/programme/abstracts/aai4230.pdf (And this one really does check out.) BRuce == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Europa submersible hypothetical

2001-02-27 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ate and (insoluble) magnesium carbonate, and ammonia would react with some of the others. (I'll poke around soon in the past few years of LPSC abstracts on the subject and see if I can dig up something more specific.) Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

SF notes

2001-02-28 Thread Bruce Moomaw
llections of essays on what makes good SF and fantasy, I'd start with Damon Knight's classic "In Search of Wonder" -- every bit as fresh and relevant today as it was in 1964 -- and Ursula LeGuin's 1980 "The Language of the Night." Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Gamma-ray problems on NEAR?

2001-02-28 Thread Bruce Moomaw
uot; After the landing, however: " 'The detector system is working well,' Trombka reports... 'Things are looking very good,' he told 'Sky & Telescope. 'Had I known this was going to happen, I wouldn't have been upset about landing at all!' " Br

Re: SF notes

2001-03-01 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ous amount of autonomous intelligence to cope with the unexpected and complex environment (both to acquire scientific information efficiently and simply to survive), and some kind of learning ability will surely be a part of that. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re:: Magnetic Chains from Mars

2001-03-01 Thread Bruce Moomaw
e of Earth and its consequences for civilization (in detail), back in 1960. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Bye-bye, SSTO

2001-03-01 Thread Bruce Moomaw
d two years ago. Oh, well; they were able to squeeze quite a lot of money out of the dairy cows -- er, taxpayers -- first, which of course was what NASA had in mind from the start: http://space.com/missionlaunches/missions/X33_cancel_010301.html Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa

Another goddamn URL correction

2001-03-01 Thread Bruce Moomaw
The article was really http://space.com/missionlaunches/missions/x33_cancel_010301.html (Who the hell would have thought a capital letter would make so much difference?) Bruce == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscri

Pluto rescued! (sort of)

2001-03-01 Thread Bruce Moomaw
that both the Republican and Democratic members made it indignantly clear that they, not the Bush Administration, will decided whether or not to cancel the Pluto mission. Of course, this still leaves wide open the final fate of this Perils of Planetary Pauline. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the

Note from a martyr

2001-03-02 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Keira McKenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:56 AM Subject: Re: Another goddamn URL correction > >Poor Bruce > >I really do feel sorry for you when you make those URL corrections, but just >thought

Re: Cassini's Jovian studies

2001-03-06 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Robert Crawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:09 PM Subject: RE: Sulfur elsewhere in the Jovian system > >> [Original Message] >> From: Bruce Moomaw <[EMAIL PRO

Re: "95 worlds and counting", and the 'bot

2001-03-07 Thread Bruce Moomaw
's surface cools and warms during its day-night cycle, even sites where eruptions had gone off hundreds of years ago could probably be accurately detected. It's quite possible that such an instrument will be carried by Europa Orbiter. Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: About "EUROPA PROBE"

2001-03-09 Thread Bruce Moomaw
"inchworm probe" that could do just that: www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/outerplanets2001/pdf/4085.pdf Bruce Moomaw == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Re: Water on Europa

2001-03-10 Thread Bruce Moomaw
ethane, and those of Neptune (along with Pluto) probably include frozen nitrogen and carbon monoxide!   Bruce Moomaw

RE: shading distant-future Earth from a red giant Sun?

2001-03-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
render Earth totally uninhabitable by crashing into it. Oddly, I have heard about some discussions of the distant-future possibility of shading Earth with a titanic super-thin sunshade to prevent future climate changes -- but even this would be a project for the very distant human future, and it certa

Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough!

2001-03-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Gail & Roberta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough! > >Naturally I can't give away too much in the hopes that my first story will >be published, but try this: Sup

To Deanna

2001-03-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
-Original Message- From: Deanna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:31 AM Subject: Re: OK, OK, OK, Enough! > >> (1) It's more likely that they would live buried UNDER a few meters of >> Europa's ice than on top of it, as a shie

To Deanna (again)

2001-03-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
You're welcome. By the way, don't depair -- I've seen surprisingly few SF stories about Europa. Indeed, I've seen somewhat more stories lately about Titan. Charles Sheffield did write a novel a few years ago about a future human civilization based on the Jovian moons, with a lot of the action

Jovian resource mining

2001-03-11 Thread Bruce Moomaw
the Conservation Law of Mass-Energy can be broken -- that one's just a bit too fundamental. There have been a few recent stories, though, about the extraction of large amounts of energy from the vacuum itself, which according to modern quantum physics may be possible. But what happens to the

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