date:20170311

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

2017-03-11 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV

This author complains about a lot of niggling little issues with the car, 
but if you discard all the literary indignation, there's really only one 
usable fact in the article: There aren't yet as many places to charge an EV 
as there are ICEV filling stations.  

When you know this, doing an 800 mile trip in a 185 mile range (as predicted 
by the car's own guessometer) EV is kind of like setting out across the 
Nevada desert in an ICEV with 2 gallons of fuel.  

Actually, I take it back.  There's one other fact here that's worth knowing. 
"After 103 miles, we showed only 70 miles of remaining range."  This means 
that the Bolt's real-world range prediction based on her previous driving 
was accurate within 6%. That's pretty good for a guessometer.  The author 
doesn't say it, since it doesn't fit with her relentless negativity, so I 
will: kudos to GM's (Daewoo's) Korean designers for that.

The general public eat up stuff that bashes anything new and different.  The 
vast majority of vehicle owners avoid real innovation -- including EVs -- 
and they love being told that that's the "right" choice.  If you're an 
author looking for a nice fee, or a website looking for advertising page 
views, a crybaby whine-fest like this is just the ticket.

That is all.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

2017-03-11 Thread Michael Ross via EV

"Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV driving
mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
road trip.

There are as well, a decent sized group of people who will not be
happy under any circumstance, or at least will naturally gravitate to
a critical stance. The idea of deferred rather than instant
gratification eludes a portion of humanity and that is not really
changeable.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
 wrote:
> If someone has a self-confessed lead foot and wants to do a 320 mile
> one-way trip in a car that *can* do about 240 miles if driven carefully,
> why does the owner and apparently experienced EV driver not come to the
> simple realization that either she should not take the EV if she
> *averages* 80 MPH which is insanity if you need to do long range in an
> EV, or realize that the only way to make good time is to *slow down*,
> since the trip would be trivial if she slows to 55 MPH and makes the
> distance Gilroy - Bakersfield via the shortest route on I5 in one leg.
> Granted, slowing down to 55 instead of averaging 80 over the distance
> will bring that part of the trip time from 3 hours to just over 4 hours,
> but the advantage of just a short top-up charge in Gilroy and only
> needing a half charge in Bakerfield for the remaining 110 miles to
> Pasadena means that there would be very little additional waiting time
> for charging.
>
> This reads almost like the classic tale of the hare and the turtle, the
> latter winning the race due to his constant progress, while the first
> wastes his time on trivial matters.
>
> In this case, they would have needed almost 6 hours of driving a
> constant 55 MPH plus probably twice half hour for charging and that is
> seriously less than the time they now took in many charging sessions
> while trying to average 80 MPH on the road...
> It is helpful to look at the big picture, instead of focusing on the ICE
> habit of driving as fast as possible and ending up wasting hours upon
> hours in trying to refuel this wrong mindset.
> Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV driving
> mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
> all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
> road trip.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 8:42 AM
> To: brucedp5; ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
> I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At
> least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More
> range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc:
> Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
>>
>>
>>[ref
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi
> -Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-
> td4686115.html
>>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>>frustrated
>>]
>>
>>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take
>>an
>>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>>
>>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was
>>just
>>a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>>EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>>
>>I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint
>>(using
>>either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public
>
>>EVSE
>>is available when compared to the free-to-use
>>https://www.plugshare.com
>>
>>I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After
>>adjusting
>>the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 &
>>highway 101
>>had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>>
>>Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I
>>would
>>have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>>possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered
>>(24kW).
>>But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

2017-03-11 Thread Cor van de Water via EV

Hi Michael,
But now we are talking about complaining about self-inflicted wounds...

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 12:46 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

"Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV
driving
mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
road trip.

There are as well, a decent sized group of people who will not be
happy under any circumstance, or at least will naturally gravitate to
a critical stance. The idea of deferred rather than instant
gratification eludes a portion of humanity and that is not really
changeable.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
 wrote:
> If someone has a self-confessed lead foot and wants to do a 320 mile
> one-way trip in a car that *can* do about 240 miles if driven
carefully,
> why does the owner and apparently experienced EV driver not come to
the
> simple realization that either she should not take the EV if she
> *averages* 80 MPH which is insanity if you need to do long range in an
> EV, or realize that the only way to make good time is to *slow down*,
> since the trip would be trivial if she slows to 55 MPH and makes the
> distance Gilroy - Bakersfield via the shortest route on I5 in one leg.
> Granted, slowing down to 55 instead of averaging 80 over the distance
> will bring that part of the trip time from 3 hours to just over 4
hours,
> but the advantage of just a short top-up charge in Gilroy and only
> needing a half charge in Bakerfield for the remaining 110 miles to
> Pasadena means that there would be very little additional waiting time
> for charging.
>
> This reads almost like the classic tale of the hare and the turtle,
the
> latter winning the race due to his constant progress, while the first
> wastes his time on trivial matters.
>
> In this case, they would have needed almost 6 hours of driving a
> constant 55 MPH plus probably twice half hour for charging and that is
> seriously less than the time they now took in many charging sessions
> while trying to average 80 MPH on the road...
> It is helpful to look at the big picture, instead of focusing on the
ICE
> habit of driving as fast as possible and ending up wasting hours upon
> hours in trying to refuel this wrong mindset.
> Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV
driving
> mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
> all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
> road trip.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 8:42 AM
> To: brucedp5; ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
> I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At
> least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More
> range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc:
> Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
>
>>
>>
>>[ref
>>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800m
i
>
-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-
> td4686115.html
>>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>>frustrated
>>]
>>
>>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take
>>an
>>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>>
>>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was
>>just
>>a glimmer in every

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

2017-03-11 Thread Cor van de Water via EV

If someone has a self-confessed lead foot and wants to do a 320 mile
one-way trip in a car that *can* do about 240 miles if driven carefully,
why does the owner and apparently experienced EV driver not come to the
simple realization that either she should not take the EV if she
*averages* 80 MPH which is insanity if you need to do long range in an
EV, or realize that the only way to make good time is to *slow down*,
since the trip would be trivial if she slows to 55 MPH and makes the
distance Gilroy - Bakersfield via the shortest route on I5 in one leg.
Granted, slowing down to 55 instead of averaging 80 over the distance
will bring that part of the trip time from 3 hours to just over 4 hours,
but the advantage of just a short top-up charge in Gilroy and only
needing a half charge in Bakerfield for the remaining 110 miles to
Pasadena means that there would be very little additional waiting time
for charging.

This reads almost like the classic tale of the hare and the turtle, the
latter winning the race due to his constant progress, while the first
wastes his time on trivial matters.

In this case, they would have needed almost 6 hours of driving a
constant 55 MPH plus probably twice half hour for charging and that is
seriously less than the time they now took in many charging sessions
while trying to average 80 MPH on the road...
It is helpful to look at the big picture, instead of focusing on the ICE
habit of driving as fast as possible and ending up wasting hours upon
hours in trying to refuel this wrong mindset.
Apparently this EV driver has not yet made the switch into an EV driving
mindset and the result is (as can be expected) less than enjoyable, as
all the reports we have read from ICE drivers trying out an EV for a
road trip.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
via EV
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 8:42 AM
To: brucedp5; ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At 
least not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More 
range might help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc:
Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

>
>
>[ref
>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi
-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-
td4686115.html
>EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>frustrated
>]
>
>I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take 
>an
>ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>
>I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was 
>just
>a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>
>I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint 
>(using
>either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public

>EVSE
>is available when compared to the free-to-use
>https://www.plugshare.com
>
>I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After 
>adjusting
>the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 & 
>highway 101
>had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>
>Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I 
>would
>have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered 
>(24kW).
>But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to 
>be on
>Hwy 99.
>
>The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have 
>gotten
>an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint 
>to
>solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>
>I used google maps
>https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE 
>in
>Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the 
>~200
>mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3 
>charging
>would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3 
>charge
>would be needed on the return trip.
>
>My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

2017-03-11 Thread paul dove via EV

Drumroll... door opens and in walks solid state li ion battery

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> I simply think it shows that EVs aren't ready for mainstream yet. At least 
> not as the only car available for all purposes. Close, yes. More range might 
> help but probaby the key factor is faster charging.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc:
> Sent: 10-Mar-17 1:07:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
> 
>> 
>> 
>> [ref
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-800mi-Bolt-trip-w-EV-ignorant-Mom-amp-teen-angst-gt-20kW-ccs-EVSE-frustrated-td4686115.html
>> EVLN: 800mi Bolt trip w/ EV-ignorant Mom& teen-angst> ~20kW ccs EVSE
>> frustrated
>> ]
>> 
>> I do not consider that an EV horror story. But a story of how to take an
>> ill-prepared trip (of course they would have problems).
>> 
>> I drove my EV on several long trips way, way back when public EVSE was just
>> a glimmer in every EV'rs eye. After reading the mother's story, this
>> EV-advocate old-timer had several things I would have done differently.
>> 
>> I would have done my road-trip homework ahead of time. Chargepoint (using
>> either their app or their web page) is a lousy tool to know what public EVSE
>> is available when compared to the free-to-use
>> https://www.plugshare.com
>> 
>> I set plugshare to only show ccs level-3 (L3) and j1772 L2. After adjusting
>> the map to show San Jose, CA at the top, it showed, highway 99 & highway 101
>> had ccs L3 charging to get to Pasadena, CA (the LA area).
>> 
>> Since the amount of time charging was a complaint the mother had, I would
>> have chosen the route that has as many full powered (50kW) L3 EVSE as
>> possible. Looking at the L3 on Hwy 101, some were only half powered (24kW).
>> But the L3 on Hwy 99 were full power. I would want most of the trip to be on
>> Hwy 99.
>> 
>> The EVSE were EVgo and plugshare showed that. The mother could have gotten
>> an EVgo account before the trip. Clearly, she depended on Chargepoint to
>> solve all her charging needs too heavily.
>> 
>> I used google maps
>> https://goo.gl/maps/se1HF6CZeEE2
>> to plan a route from San Jose east to Hwy 99, then south to a L3 EVSE in
>> Visalia. Using the details on that map shows that Visalia is at the ~200
>> mile point. And Pasadena is another 200 miles. Meaning only one L3 charging
>> would be needed to make the entire 400 mile trip, and only one L3 charge
>> would be needed on the return trip.
>> 
>> My mostly Hwy 99 route goes south from San Jose, cuts over east on Hwy 152
>> to Hwy 99 going south. Hwy 99 merges with Hwy 5 at Bakersfield. Hwy 5 will
>> take the Mom& teen south to Pasadena.
>> 
>> My route has the most full-power L3 charging to keep range angst to a
>> minimum, and lets the couple only need one L3 quick charging stop.
>> 
>> 
>> My complaint with this story is that the story was worded to leave the
>> EV-ignorant feeling EVs are not-ready for prime time.
>> If I drove a Bolt EV on that trip, my prep would have made for an easier
>> time, with far fewer complaints
>> (because when it comes to EVs on long trips, I know what I am doing).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> 
>> 
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-800mi-Bolt-trip-San-Jose-LA-on-ccs-tp4686125.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
>> Nabble.com.
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] EV cartoons/comics (was: Electric cars and the comic strip)

2017-03-11 Thread brucedp5 via EV

Here are a couple more EV cartoons with a couple of EV cartoon searches
afterward:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/transport-electric_car-electronic_car-lightening_strike-lightening_bolt-green_car-jhen217_low.jpg

https://i2.wp.com/dummiesoftheyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/cool-Smart-car-tiny-green-windows.jpg

https://www.google.com/search?q=q=electric+vehicle+cartoon=isch

https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+car+cartoon=isch

https://www.google.com/search?q=q=electric+vehicle+comic=isch




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Electric-cars-and-the-comic-strip-tp4686128p4686138.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170311

2017-03-11 Thread brucedp5 via EV



http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Zoe-e-Sport-supermini-EV-pepped-up-to-a-rabid-460bhp-pocket-rocket-v-td4686136.html
Zoe e-Sport supermini EV pepped up to a rabid 460bhp pocket rocket (v)
Renault Zoe e-Sport muscles up this tricked-up Zoe is capable of 0-62mph in
just 3.2sec ... 130mph ... in comfortably less than 10s How to pep up an
electric supermini? …

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Feds-ca-award-ODG-1M-contract-for-unmanned-8whl-amphibious-EV-td4686135.html
EVLN: Feds.ca award ODG $1M contract for unmanned 8whl amphibious EV
Designed for military rescue operations and disaster relief missions, the
electric vehicle can traverse dangerous environments without putting
soldiers at risk ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Polaris-future-Indian-Electric-motorcycle-quashed-gt-perpetual-R-amp-D-td4686134.html
EVLN: Polaris' future Indian Electric-motorcycle quashed> (perpetual R)
Just a few months after shutting down its Victory brand and stopping
production of its only electric motorcycle still in production, Polaris
Industries ... QUASHED: Indian will NOT have an electric motorcycle on the
road ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/kokam-com-XPAND-7-1kWh-to-1-5MWh-battery-packs-for-electric-buses-amp-commercial-vehicles-td4686133.html
kokam.com XPAND 7.1kWh to 1.5MWh battery packs for electric-buses&
commercial vehicles
The XPAND battery pack will be offered in … scalable, able to support EV
applications up to 1.5MWh of capacity in a wide variety of voltages ...




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20170311-tp4686137.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)

Re: [EVDL] EV cartoons/comics (was: Electric cars and the comic strip)

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170311

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