Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
On 31 Oct 2022 at 11:50, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > In developed countries, I think most lead-acid batteries are being > recycled safely ... The situation was different in the past, and still > is in some third world countries today. There are unfortunately some third world and lawless nations that do little or nothing to prevent lead pollution and outright immediate poisoning from battery recycling. In some cases where there are regulations, a little cash in the hand of the appropriate official makes legal problems vanish in a puff of toxic smoke. I don't know about today, but in the1990s and early 2000s I read that many spent lead batteries were being exported from the US to such places because, even with the shipping, it was cheaper to have them stripped there. Once again the almighty buck won out over the environment and health. There've also been cases where North American battery companies didn't follow the rules. AFAIK they've paid the price, though not before their employees and neighbors did. My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I think that Eagle-Picher was one. They declared bankruptcy 20-some years ago as a result of cleanup charges and fines levied against them. Here we go - some info at Wikipedia - apparently they were on the hook for asbestos too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle-Picher And here: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-03-1051r Corporations will always be tempted to take shortcuts for the sake of a little more protit. That's why we have to rely on government to regulate industry. Funny how the "let's make goverment so small you can drown it in the bathtub" and "regulatory relief" politicians never talk about things like lead poisoning, isn't it? That can't possibly be because lead makes you stupid, and stupid voters are easier to manipulate. Can it? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I tried to reach Nirvana, but all I ever got were reruns of The Mickey Mouse Club. -- Jim Ignitowsky, "Taxi" (on taking psychedelic drugs) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van
I get about 8kWh per day in the summer when it's sunny. That's good for about 15 highway or 20 city miles.The prototype van I have here is the long-wheelbase high-roof and I only drive it occasionally when I need to move a lot of stuff or test something, so I never need to plug it in anymore. If I use a lot of range, it'll still be back to 80% within a week. (What I keep the SoC set to) We have a mobile app that lets you set the target SoC and keep tabs on the system. The cool thing is the system continues to pump in quite a bit even while you're driving. Essentially makes the A/C "free". On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 10:00 AM Lee Hart via EV wrote: > (-Phil-) via EV wrote: > > https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html > > Wow; that is really cool, Phil! > > If you're traveling outside the developed world with charging outlets, > how many miles per day can you drive with just PV charging? > > Lee Hart > > -- > "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked > what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221031/a4662e01/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
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Re: [EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van
(-Phil-) via EV wrote: https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html Wow; that is really cool, Phil! If you're traveling outside the developed world with charging outlets, how many miles per day can you drive with just PV charging? Lee Hart -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
On 10/30/2022 3:15 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: Don’t forget that recycling of lead acid batteries contaminates the communities around them, creating major health problems to those near them and downwind. Given that millions of lead-acid batteries are retired every year, it's not surprising that you can find plenty of recycling success stories, as well as plenty of failures. In most developed countries, there are laws that dictate how to recycle lead-acid batteries safely. There are also fees to encourage proper recycling. Where I live (mid-state Minnesota), I get $5-$10 for a dead lead-acid battery, and it gets recycled in an EPA inspected recycling center. In developed countries, I think most lead-acid batteries are being recycled safely. But of course, there are always a few who can't be bothered to follow the rules. Even in the US, I've rescued discarded lead-acid batteries from dumps and ditches. The situation was different in the past, and still is in some third world countries today. Some of them are still following the hazardous practices that were common 100 years ago. Regarding the comment that 50% of lead comes from new mining: Remember that lead is used for all sorts of things besides batteries; solder, ammunition, metal alloys, glass and ceramic additives, radiation shielding, lead weights, aviation gasoline... and much of that lead is *not* recycled; it must be replaced by new mining. The US has largely phased out all these other uses for lead, so batteries are the biggest user. But in developing countries, only about 30% of lead is used for batteries. They are still using lead in gasoline, pipes, roofing, paints, and other products. China is the largest consumer of lead today; and it ain't for car batteries! Is it perfect? No, of course not -- nothing is. But overall, I think lead-acid battery recycling is a success story. Far more so than any other battery technology. Lee -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
It was my understanding that Texaco bought the patents, shelved them, and retain them. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2022, at 8:51 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > > Don’t forget that recycling of lead acid batteries contaminates the > communities around them, creating major health problems to those near them > and downwind. > > > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Oct 30, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: >> >> Peri Hartman wrote: There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What else can be done? >> >> EV List Lackey wrote: >>> Nickel metal hydride? >> >> There are actually lots of rechargeable battery technologies that could be >> used. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. >> >> It's unfortunate that manufacturers tend to prefer a monoculture. "One thing >> to rule them all". But anything that you try to apply to 8 billion people is >> bound to cause unforeseen problems. Different applications should really use >> different solutions. >> >> Lead-acid is cheap, and widely recyclable. But it's relatively heavy and has >> a low energy density. It still makes sense for short-range EVs like golf >> carts, fork lifts, scooters, etc. Also, don't forget that virtually every >> ICE is still using lead-acids. >> >> Nickel-based batteries (nickel-iron, nickel-cadmium, nimh) have higher >> energy density and longer life, and the materials are relatively abundant. >> Nickel is expensive, but fairly easy to recycle (though it's not being >> widely done for batteries). >> >> Lithium-based batteries have the highest energy density, but are expensive, >> less safe, and (at least for the present) not being recycled. >> >> And, there are lots of other chemistries that could be used. We should be >> exploring *every* option; not just blindly picking one. >> >> Lee Hart >> >> -- >> "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked >> what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer >> -- >> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> ___ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ >> > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
Mark can you substantiate that statement? Thanks, Dan Dan 520-834-4176 I10 and Twin Peaks On 10/30/2022 3:15 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: Don’t forget that recycling of lead acid batteries contaminates the communities around them, creating major health problems to those near them and downwind. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On Oct 30, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Peri Hartman wrote: There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What else can be done? EV List Lackey wrote: Nickel metal hydride? There are actually lots of rechargeable battery technologies that could be used. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. It's unfortunate that manufacturers tend to prefer a monoculture. "One thing to rule them all". But anything that you try to apply to 8 billion people is bound to cause unforeseen problems. Different applications should really use different solutions. Lead-acid is cheap, and widely recyclable. But it's relatively heavy and has a low energy density. It still makes sense for short-range EVs like golf carts, fork lifts, scooters, etc. Also, don't forget that virtually every ICE is still using lead-acids. Nickel-based batteries (nickel-iron, nickel-cadmium, nimh) have higher energy density and longer life, and the materials are relatively abundant. Nickel is expensive, but fairly easy to recycle (though it's not being widely done for batteries). Lithium-based batteries have the highest energy density, but are expensive, less safe, and (at least for the present) not being recycled. And, there are lots of other chemistries that could be used. We should be exploring *every* option; not just blindly picking one. Lee Hart -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages t...@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP:http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages t...@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP:http://www.evdl.org/help/ -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221031/d3fce55f/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
