Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA
Don't know anymore details, I'm in Oregon and I saw this happened in "Newport Oregon" which is directly on the Oregon Coast. I think thesechargers are within spitting distance of the ocean. Lot's of rain/salt/wind here especially . Tough environment for outside electrical connections especially probably aluminum ones. Also (and I speak fromexperience), URD (underground rated) has a much thicker heavier insulation on it, and it's difficult to get that insulation off WITHOUT accidentally"nicking" the aluminum wires which are much more brittle than copper and mechanically weakens them alot. I'm fairly careful, but I've screwed upand seen a connection I thought was good turn out that half the strands broke later. One thing that seemed to help was to use one of those little "close cutter pipe cutters" to take off the insulation. underground Aluminum feeder wire is MUCH cheaper for high amperage connections so it's everywhere. -- If we don't halt population growth with justice and compassion, it will be done for us by nature, brutally and without pity - and will leave a ravaged world. Nobel Laureate Dr. Henry W. Kendall On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 11:03:56 AM PST, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote: > I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel): > https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI > > It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices > concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of > EVSEs. It's a good video showing what can go wrong. But it's worth noting that even these drastic failures did NOT cause a fire or shock hazard. The safety standards did what they are supposed to do. The examples all appeared to use aluminum wire. It's much harder to make a reliable connection with it. Aluminum wire should only be used with connectors explicitly rated for it. Aluminum is also less conductive than copper, so you have to de-rate the devices accordingly. Another aspect is the duty cycle. When UL rates something as "60 amps", that's the maximum current; not the average current rating. Electrical items should not be used continuously at more than 80% of its max rating. Finally, there was no failure analysis as to whether these items were actually UL listed, and installed correctly in the first place. I've seen a lot of things that claim to be UL listed but are in fact cheap offshore junk with fake UL markings. And I've often found electrical installations with undersized wire or connectors, or where the screws were never fully tightened, etc. I think these are the real problems. (It also irked me that they continuously referred to the EVSE connections as the "charger". But that's just me.) Lee Hart -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221202/d104e869/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] F150 bricked at Electrify America Charging station
Hi folks It’s a level 3, not level 2 charging station in the article. Level 2 (single phase 240V) EVSE should only use copper wire per Tesla Level 2 installation instructions. With outside temperature variations, aluminum wire tends to creep away from the terminals over time (get loose ) and can then cause a fire under high current operation. I’ve seen garage aluminum connections loose after 5-10 years but inside the house at constant temperature, connections are still tight (proper terminal torque settings). I avoid aluminum wiring due to the thermal creep problem. Sometimes it’s required for long 200’ solar installation runs and increase size for derating and voltage drop. Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA
> On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > > (It also irked me that they continuously referred to the EVSE connections as > the "charger". But that's just me.) > It’s not just you. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA
Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote: I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel): https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of EVSEs. It's a good video showing what can go wrong. But it's worth noting that even these drastic failures did NOT cause a fire or shock hazard. The safety standards did what they are supposed to do. The examples all appeared to use aluminum wire. It's much harder to make a reliable connection with it. Aluminum wire should only be used with connectors explicitly rated for it. Aluminum is also less conductive than copper, so you have to de-rate the devices accordingly. Another aspect is the duty cycle. When UL rates something as "60 amps", that's the maximum current; not the average current rating. Electrical items should not be used continuously at more than 80% of its max rating. Finally, there was no failure analysis as to whether these items were actually UL listed, and installed correctly in the first place. I've seen a lot of things that claim to be UL listed but are in fact cheap offshore junk with fake UL markings. And I've often found electrical installations with undersized wire or connectors, or where the screws were never fully tightened, etc. I think these are the real problems. (It also irked me that they continuously referred to the EVSE connections as the "charger". But that's just me.) Lee Hart -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?
Both are 24khw packs. In warm weather the 2012 still gets terrible range, something like 45-50 miles. The 2013 can get around 60-65 miles range in warm weather. On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 11:16 AM Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > Ok, good to know. So that appears to show that the "lizard" battery > performs better in cold weather than the original battery. I presume > both are 24kWh batteries. Do you have warm weather range numbers to > compare to ? > > Peri > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Collin Kidder via EV" > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" > Cc: "Collin Kidder" > Sent: 01-Dec-22 06:52:28 > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ? > > >Indeed. I've got a 2012 Leaf and a 2013 Leaf. Neither shows much battery > >degradation but the 2012 gets about 30-40 miles range in Winter and the > >2013 about 40-45 miles range. > > > >On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:16 PM Ken Olum via EV > wrote: > > > >> Here is a data point about Leaf batteries at cold temperatures. We > >> drove 40 miles, about 40% at highway speeds, with an outside > temperature > >> of 40F. This took the pack from 100% to 29%. Extrapolating gives an > >> all-out range in these conditions of 57 miles. This is a 2015 24kW > pack > >> with something like 95K miles, the last 8K in our 2013 Leaf. It has 11 > >> out of 12 battery health bars left. > >> > >> Ken > >> ___ > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > >> > >> > >-- next part -- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221201/87081cc4/attachment.htm > > > >___ > >Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221202/feb6834d/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA
Maybe physical connections need regular maintenance. Retorquing connections possibly. Lawrence Rhodes On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 07:03:28 AM PST, Peter Eckhoff wrote: I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel): https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of EVSEs. The insides of a junction box literally melted. Followed by a show and tell and then discussions on products and the call for safety standards and a suggestion on wiring a breaker panel. Not being an electrician or EE, I thought this is a place to maybe make us aware of the situation and thoughts of what we can do about it. On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 10:24 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/ford-f-150-lighting-evidently-bricked-while-charging-at-electrify-america-station/amp/ > Lawrence Rhodes > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221202/641335fe/attachment.htm> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221202/a21a3b71/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA
I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel): https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of EVSEs. The insides of a junction box literally melted. Followed by a show and tell and then discussions on products and the call for safety standards and a suggestion on wiring a breaker panel. Not being an electrician or EE, I thought this is a place to maybe make us aware of the situation and thoughts of what we can do about it. On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 10:24 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > > https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/ford-f-150-lighting-evidently-bricked-while-charging-at-electrify-america-station/amp/ > Lawrence Rhodes > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221202/641335fe/attachment.htm> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
