Re: [EVDL] Cell Tower Interference
I agree with Phil. I also doubt that cell towers are the root cause of your issue. The problem is likely due to the motor wiring and other power wiring not kept separate/distant from the throttle wiring. The throttle wiring needs to be a small, shielded, 3-wire cable, kept very distant from any battery or motor cables. Additionally, the motor cables need to be kept very close to one another, and the battery cables need to travel in pairs that are also kept close to one another. Every battery cable that emerges from a battery module needs to be paired tightly with the opposite polarity battery cable carrying the return current. Basically, bundle up the power leads, and motor leads on one side of the car. Put the shielded throttle wire (at least twisted if not shielded) far away from the power cables, preferably on the opposite side of the car. A classic "self-inflicted wound" in DIY EV's is several battery boxes distributed around the car and wired in a large single cable, series loop, that surrounds the perimeter of the car. This loop acts like a very nice loop antenna that bathes the entire vehicle in RF. Everything electronic in the vehicle goes nuts when you press the throttle. Bill D. On 6/24/2023 5:48 AM, (-Phil-) via EV wrote: Unless you have a cell tower right in your driveway (near-field), it's highly unlikely that's the cause. More likely would be a local cell-phone (yours) inside the car causing this when it responds to control channel messages or you are on a call. The most energy a cell tower puts out is somewhere below a few watts in total, and due to the Inverse Square law: The radiation Intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance. A WiFi access point close to your car is going to expose it to more RF than a cell tower a block away, but in either case the energy at the car is super low. It would take an exceptionally "perfect storm" of bad engineering in the EV to have this be a cause. More likely it's interfering with itself. The amount of electrical and RF noise in an EV is astounding, which is why even on carefully engineered production EVs, AM radio doesn't work so well, and why it's being removed from most of them. There are myriad ways your home-built EV could be doing this, but impossible to determine without a thorough analysis. Though obvious things to consider; Did you use shielded HV cables? Did you take steps to minimize wire length, especially from controller to motor? Are these routed as close together as practical? Are they shielded? What about the battery wiring? Did you design the layout to minimize battery loop inductance? Is the motor and controller grounded to the body with a heavy flat braided jumper? On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:30 AM David Heacock via EV wrote: I have converted a 1985 Avanti to an EV and with the current LFP battery pack I have a reasonable range of about 100 miles. Everything works well with different components from different sources. However, one problem I have yet to resolve is what appears to be interference from Cell towers which basically seems to cut out the throttle and at slow speeds can actually cause the vehicle to shut off and then come back on as the car moves relative to the cell tower position. I have contacted a number of people and suppliers about the issue and tried a number of things to provide RF protection but have not been able to solve the problem. Has anyone ever experienced this issue and a possible solution? David Heacock -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/c58f993d/attachment.htm ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/d9a2723e/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
I've had 2 M3's, the first I got in 2019 and it got hit on the driver's side and was totaled. I got a great settlement from the Ins Co and got a new Tesla at basically no cost, a 2020 M3 Standard+ with FSD. With my first M3 I drove from Tucson to NYC and back 3 weeks after I got it and had no trouble at all with charging/supercharging, got very used to the time waiting by eating, walking, bathroom etc. The trip was 5587 miles and cost $307.15 for charging. Best regards, Rush Dougherty TucsonEV www.TucsonEV.com > -Original Message- > From: EV On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 9:09 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Cc: EV List Lackey > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17 > > On 22 Jun 2023 at 13:27, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote: > > > Since the EVListLackey ?? didn't figure home charging, where a vast > > number of EV owners charge, I thought I try and see what the cost is > > with my Eleco here in Tucson TEP ... So my cost per mile was $0.06 > > Sorry I didn't look at the cost to home charge that Kia EV6. It would depend on the > utility of course. > > Your per-mile cost analysis was interesting. Maybe others can chime in with their > costs. BTW, if you don't mine my asking, what Tesla model are you driving? > > I computed our costs for the Renault Zoe: > > Public charging on Ionity network (fairly expensive): > > Ionity DC (<= 350kW), 0.69 euro / kWh : 0.10 euro / km (US$0.175 / mile) > > Ionity AC (<= 22kW), 0.39 euro / kWh : 0.057 euro / km (US$0.10 / mile) > > Home AC (<= 7.2kW), 0.2142 euro / kWh : 0.03 euro / km (US$0.054 / mile) > > For comparison, a Renault Clio hybrid, a similar car that uses 4.3l/100km, > would cost 0.085 euro/km with fuel at 1.98 euro/litre. > > Maybe others here would like to post their per-mile (or per-km) costs. > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : > http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe. > > -- Twitter user Flat Earth Society > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. > www.avg.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Cell Tower Interference
Unless you have a cell tower right in your driveway (near-field), it's highly unlikely that's the cause. More likely would be a local cell-phone (yours) inside the car causing this when it responds to control channel messages or you are on a call. The most energy a cell tower puts out is somewhere below a few watts in total, and due to the Inverse Square law: The radiation Intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance. A WiFi access point close to your car is going to expose it to more RF than a cell tower a block away, but in either case the energy at the car is super low. It would take an exceptionally "perfect storm" of bad engineering in the EV to have this be a cause. More likely it's interfering with itself. The amount of electrical and RF noise in an EV is astounding, which is why even on carefully engineered production EVs, AM radio doesn't work so well, and why it's being removed from most of them. There are myriad ways your home-built EV could be doing this, but impossible to determine without a thorough analysis. Though obvious things to consider; Did you use shielded HV cables? Did you take steps to minimize wire length, especially from controller to motor? Are these routed as close together as practical? Are they shielded? What about the battery wiring? Did you design the layout to minimize battery loop inductance? Is the motor and controller grounded to the body with a heavy flat braided jumper? On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:30 AM David Heacock via EV wrote: > I have converted a 1985 Avanti to an EV and with the current LFP battery > pack I have a reasonable range of about 100 miles. Everything works well > with different components from different sources. However, one problem I > have yet to resolve is what appears to be interference from Cell towers > which basically seems to cut out the throttle and at slow speeds can > actually cause the vehicle to shut off and then come back on as the car > moves relative to the cell tower position. I have contacted a number of > people and suppliers about the issue and tried a number of things to > provide RF protection but have not been able to solve the problem. Has > anyone ever experienced this issue and a possible solution? > David Heacock > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/c58f993d/attachment.htm > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/d9a2723e/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] Cell Tower Interference
I have converted a 1985 Avanti to an EV and with the current LFP battery pack I have a reasonable range of about 100 miles. Everything works well with different components from different sources. However, one problem I have yet to resolve is what appears to be interference from Cell towers which basically seems to cut out the throttle and at slow speeds can actually cause the vehicle to shut off and then come back on as the car moves relative to the cell tower position. I have contacted a number of people and suppliers about the issue and tried a number of things to provide RF protection but have not been able to solve the problem. Has anyone ever experienced this issue and a possible solution? David Heacock -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/c58f993d/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
I have a Model 3 Performance, and a Maxwell ePro. Almost never do I have to pay any power bills, as my Solar overproduces, (In fact I get a check back at true-up). The Maxwell ePro also has its own 1.5kW solar system built-in, which is good for around 15 miles per/day if it's sunny. Once in a while I will use CCS to charge the ePro, but my 2018 Model 3 was one of the very few sold that have free supercharging. (Though I think I had an idle fee once while eating.) I get about 250-350Wh/mile on the Model 3 and 400-500Wh/mile on the ePro. On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:38 AM EV List Lackey via EV wrote: > On 23 Jun 2023 at 10:18, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > > > The cost is subsidized by my local city, a local employer, etc... So it > > would be perfectly feasable to "drive for free" if I was willing to > > drive a few miles and wait to charge. > > That's what Margaret did when we first got the Zoe. We didn't have an > EVSE > yet because we had to have the prehistoric electrical panel replaced and > the > service upgraded first. The granny cord that came with the car worked, > but > it was slw. > > Normally she'd walk or bike the 2km to the grocery, but when the car got > below 40% she drove there and charged for free while she bought > groceries. > With a 22kW AC charge on a 52kWh battery, all she had to do was spend 45m > to > an hour shopping and the car would be at 80% or better. I think she could > probably spend that much time just picking through the short-date > cut-price > section. :-) > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > Finnegans Wake is the best example of modernism disappearing > up its own fundament. > > -- JG Ballard > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/1e972dfe/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
On 23 Jun 2023 at 10:18, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > The cost is subsidized by my local city, a local employer, etc... So it > would be perfectly feasable to "drive for free" if I was willing to > drive a few miles and wait to charge. That's what Margaret did when we first got the Zoe. We didn't have an EVSE yet because we had to have the prehistoric electrical panel replaced and the service upgraded first. The granny cord that came with the car worked, but it was slw. Normally she'd walk or bike the 2km to the grocery, but when the car got below 40% she drove there and charged for free while she bought groceries. With a 22kW AC charge on a 52kWh battery, all she had to do was spend 45m to an hour shopping and the car would be at 80% or better. I think she could probably spend that much time just picking through the short-date cut-price section. :-) David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Finnegans Wake is the best example of modernism disappearing up its own fundament. -- JG Ballard = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
On 6/23/23 09:45, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: Very interesting that the Chargepoint electricity (10 cents / kWh) is actually cheaper than your home electricity (13 cents / kWh). Bravo for Kent and Chargepoint. I have access to multiple chargepoint EVSE's that are "free" (no cost for charging, although some have an idle charge if you remain parked after finishing the charge). The cost is subsidized by my local city, a local employer, etc... So it would be perfectly feasable to "drive for free" if I was willing to drive a few miles and wait to charge. (Some Uber/Lift drivers will use this while waiting for ride hails) But at 0.14c per kwh, it is a better use of my time to charge at home. (I also have solar, so I "pre-paid" for my electric usage when installing the system...the 0.14c per kwh is the current Duke energy rate.) Jay ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
When I first started charging there back in 2017 it was $0.35/kWhr. I told them it was cheaper to drive on gasoline and wasn't going to charge. I work at Ametek who pays for parking at Parta. I believe they negotiated special pricing for people that pay for the parking garage. On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 09:45:23 AM EDT, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 23 Jun 2023 at 12:46, Rod Hower via EV wrote: > I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive > 21 miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using > ChargePoint with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to > work in the spring, summer and fall, so $0.7 per day.At home I charge on 240V > and the cost is $0.13, so $0.91.Averaging 20 work days and ignoring the > weekend driving it comes out to $32.2 per month for 840 miles. About > $0.038/mile. Very interesting that the Chargepoint electricity (10 cents / kWh) is actually cheaper than your home electricity (13 cents / kWh). Bravo for Kent and Chargepoint. If I understand you right, and did the math right, it's 3.3 cents ($0.033) per mile charging at work on Chargepoint, and 4.3 cents ($0.043) per mile charging at home. That seems pretty reasonable. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There's a knob called "brightness," but it doesn't work. -- Gallagher = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/643aeff1/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
On 23 Jun 2023 at 12:46, Rod Hower via EV wrote: > I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive > 21 miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using > ChargePoint with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to > work in the spring, summer and fall, so $0.7 per day.At home I charge on 240V > and the cost is $0.13, so $0.91.Averaging 20 work days and ignoring the > weekend driving it comes out to $32.2 per month for 840 miles. About > $0.038/mile. Very interesting that the Chargepoint electricity (10 cents / kWh) is actually cheaper than your home electricity (13 cents / kWh). Bravo for Kent and Chargepoint. If I understand you right, and did the math right, it's 3.3 cents ($0.033) per mile charging at work on Chargepoint, and 4.3 cents ($0.043) per mile charging at home. That seems pretty reasonable. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There's a knob called "brightness," but it doesn't work. -- Gallagher = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
Maybe others here would like to post their per-mile (or per-km) costs. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey 2015 Nissan Leaf S getting 4.8 miles per KWH, Duke energy in Florida (0.14 per kWh) = $0.029 (3 cents per mile of fuel costs...tire costs are probably more per mile) Jay ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17
I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive 21 miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using ChargePoint with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to work in the spring, summer and fall, so $0.7 per day.At home I charge on 240V and the cost is $0.13, so $0.91.Averaging 20 work days and ignoring the weekend driving it comes out to $32.2 per month for 840 miles. About $0.038/mile. On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:09:20 AM EDT, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 22 Jun 2023 at 13:27, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote: > Since the EVListLackey ?? didn't figure home charging, where a vast > number of EV owners charge, I thought I try and see what the cost is > with my Eleco here in Tucson TEP ... So my cost per mile was $0.06 Sorry I didn't look at the cost to home charge that Kia EV6. It would depend on the utility of course. Your per-mile cost analysis was interesting. Maybe others can chime in with their costs. BTW, if you don't mine my asking, what Tesla model are you driving? I computed our costs for the Renault Zoe: Public charging on Ionity network (fairly expensive): Ionity DC (<= 350kW), 0.69 euro / kWh : 0.10 euro / km (US$0.175 / mile) Ionity AC (<= 22kW), 0.39 euro / kWh : 0.057 euro / km (US$0.10 / mile) Home AC (<= 7.2kW), 0.2142 euro / kWh : 0.03 euro / km (US$0.054 / mile) For comparison, a Renault Clio hybrid, a similar car that uses 4.3l/100km, would cost 0.085 euro/km with fuel at 1.98 euro/litre. Maybe others here would like to post their per-mile (or per-km) costs. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe. -- Twitter user Flat Earth Society = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230623/cca1b6d4/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
