Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[paul dove via EV]

LOL Tesla I mean

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 1:58 PM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> I don't think anyone besides Tessa will reach 200,000 cars any time soon. 
> Nissan only sold 10,000 this year and 90,000 in 5 years. At that rate it will 
> be at least another 6 years unless sales jump dramatically.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2016, at 7:47 AM, Rush Dougherty via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Seth asked -
>>> 
>>> My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit* 
>>> for
>> new 2016 purchases
>>> which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?
>> 
>> From
>> http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/3-things-president-trump-electric-cars.htm
>> l
>> 
>> 1. Let the $7,500 EV tax credit go extinct
>> Sometime between the release of the Model 3 and six months later, federal tax
>> credits of $7,500 for Tesla consumers would hit the 200,000 mark and start
>> expiring. General Motors, Ford, Nissan, and other manufacturers would follow 
>> in
>> the next year or two, and that would leave EV buyers without the subsidy 
>> fossil
>> fuel industries get. When Trump says the U.S. should not pick "winners and
>> losers" in the energy department, that would easily apply to shutting down 
>> the
>> tax credit once it expires, likely stopping adoption in its tracks.
>> 
>> Rush Dougherty
>> Tucson AZ 85719
>> 
>> 
>> Seth asked -
>>> 
>>> My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit* 
>>> for
>> new 2016 purchases
>>> which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[paul dove via EV]

I don't think anyone besides Tessa will reach 200,000 cars any time soon. 
Nissan only sold 10,000 this year and 90,000 in 5 years. At that rate it will 
be at least another 6 years unless sales jump dramatically.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 10, 2016, at 7:47 AM, Rush Dougherty via EV  wrote:
> 
> Seth asked -
>> 
>> My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit* 
>> for
> new 2016 purchases
>> which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?
> 
> From
> http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/3-things-president-trump-electric-cars.htm
> l
> 
> 1. Let the $7,500 EV tax credit go extinct
> Sometime between the release of the Model 3 and six months later, federal tax
> credits of $7,500 for Tesla consumers would hit the 200,000 mark and start
> expiring. General Motors, Ford, Nissan, and other manufacturers would follow 
> in
> the next year or two, and that would leave EV buyers without the subsidy 
> fossil
> fuel industries get. When Trump says the U.S. should not pick "winners and
> losers" in the energy department, that would easily apply to shutting down the
> tax credit once it expires, likely stopping adoption in its tracks.
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> Tucson AZ 85719
> 
> 
> Seth asked -
>> 
>> My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit* 
>> for
> new 2016 purchases
>> which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Seth asked -
>
> My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit* for
new 2016 purchases
> which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?

From
http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/3-things-president-trump-electric-cars.htm
l

1. Let the $7,500 EV tax credit go extinct
Sometime between the release of the Model 3 and six months later, federal tax
credits of $7,500 for Tesla consumers would hit the 200,000 mark and start
expiring. General Motors, Ford, Nissan, and other manufacturers would follow in
the next year or two, and that would leave EV buyers without the subsidy fossil
fuel industries get. When Trump says the U.S. should not pick "winners and
losers" in the energy department, that would easily apply to shutting down the
tax credit once it expires, likely stopping adoption in its tracks.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


Seth asked -
>
> My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit* for
new 2016 purchases
> which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?



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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

I really don't think the credit for a 2016 purchase would be at risk.  To do 
that, they would have to pass a law in 2017 that was retroactive to 2016.  It 
could be done, but that is very bad form.  I think the businesses would revolt.

Now, will the credit still be in place for 2017 or 2018 purchases?  Who knows.

Mike


On November 10, 2016 6:02:53 AM MST, Seth Rothenberg via EV  
wrote:
>My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax
>*credit*
>for new 2016 purchases which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?
>
>That might weigh on the balance between a new Leaf and a used Tesla.
>A used Tesla already has had the incentive redeemed.  I'll have to
>check
>the prices in MD, where they might have redeemed both Federal and state
>incentives.  But it has a different price and likely a different
>interest
>rate.
>-- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Here's an article from Chelsea Sexton that address the subject of Trump and EV's

https://evchels.wordpress.com/2016/11/09/for-evs-work-trumps-hope/

In the article there are some links, one of which lists what Trump will probably
do about EV's
1. Let the $7,500 EV tax credit go extinct
2. Neuter EV investment with lower MPG standards
3. Pay back Big Oil campaign contributors

So if you thought the battle to have EV's accepted before, be prepared for what
the future holds...

I have to say that although some people may view these posts as politics... they
really aren't. They are about the people/institutions that have an immense
amount of power to affect what happens to EV's and it would be naïve to think
otherwise.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719




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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Seth Rothenberg via EV]

My one question (directly )  on this topic is, will the $7500 tax *credit*
for new 2016 purchases which can be claimed in April 2017 be at risk?

That might weigh on the balance between a new Leaf and a used Tesla.
A used Tesla already has had the incentive redeemed.  I'll have to check
the prices in MD, where they might have redeemed both Federal and state
incentives.  But it has a different price and likely a different interest
rate.
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

 Sorry- he said that he believes in an "all of the above" approach.


Sent from AltaMail


 From: Mark Abramowitz via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "j...@k6ccc.org" 
<j...@k6ccc.org>,Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
CC: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 
Trump and EV's Date: 11/9/16, 9:28 PM

 
And, in fact, he has said that he believes UV AV 
 
Sent from AltaMail 
 
 
 From: Jim Walls via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Rush Dougherty" 
<r...@ironandwood.org>,"Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's Date: 11/9/16, 3:43 PM 
 
  
Not trying to agree or disagree, but remember that one of the biggest   
issues with the US economy is the regular moving of jobs off-shore.  A   
second is a substantial un-balance of trade.  Mr. Trump has somewhat   
regularly pushed that we need to get Americans working again.  If he is   
able to enact his item five, it will put a bunch of Americans to work in   
largely well paying jobs, and reduce oil imports which will have at least a   
little improvement in the balance of trade.  

 Although Rush Dougherty added the comment about no clean energy nor EVs,   
there is nothing in Trump's statement to that effect (as included in his   
message).  To assume things that are not there is speculation.   

 Also note that this discussion is really off-topic for the list...  

 Jim Walls  



  Original Message   
> From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>  
> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 3:02 PM  
> To: "Bill Woodcock" <wo...@pch.net>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"   
<ev@lists.evdl.org>  
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's  
>  
> Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his   
first 100  
> days -  
> "FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion   
dollars'  
> worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil,   
natural gas  
> and clean coal."  
>  
> More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it   
all over  
> again.  
>  
> Rush Dougherty  
> Tucson AZ 85719  
   
  
  
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

And, in fact, he has said that he believes UV AV

Sent from AltaMail


 From: Jim Walls via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Rush Dougherty" 
<r...@ironandwood.org>,"Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's Date: 11/9/16, 3:43 PM

 
Not trying to agree or disagree, but remember that one of the biggest  
issues with the US economy is the regular moving of jobs off-shore.  A  
second is a substantial un-balance of trade.  Mr. Trump has somewhat  
regularly pushed that we need to get Americans working again.  If he is  
able to enact his item five, it will put a bunch of Americans to work in  
largely well paying jobs, and reduce oil imports which will have at least a  
little improvement in the balance of trade. 
   
 Although Rush Dougherty added the comment about no clean energy nor EVs,  
there is nothing in Trump's statement to that effect (as included in his  
message).  To assume things that are not there is speculation.  
   
 Also note that this discussion is really off-topic for the list... 
   
 Jim Walls 
   
   
   
  Original Message  
> From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 3:02 PM 
> To: "Bill Woodcock" <wo...@pch.net>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"  
<ev@lists.evdl.org> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's 
> 
> Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his  
first 100 
> days - 
> "FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion  
dollars' 
> worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil,  
natural gas 
> and clean coal." 
> 
> More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it  
all over 
> again. 
> 
> Rush Dougherty 
> Tucson AZ 85719 
  
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[paul dove via EV]

Teslas aren't really that expensive. The park Audi's in the mall here and the 
cheapest one I have seen was 88,000 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2016, at 5:56 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> Peri and all,
> 
> 
> 
> Just think a little about the average mentality – America loves oil, it makes 
> their cars go for miles and miles and miles, and all it takes to fill up is a 
> stop at the local 711, where you can get a hot dog and a coke or coffee by 
> the way, or buy a lottery ticket (which you have 1 in a zillion chances to 
> win). The only real EV is the Tesla. Look at the Leaf – it has battery 
> problems and it takes hours to recharge the battery pack and you can only 
> recharge in a couple places what a pia. And the Tesla is very very expensive, 
> I’ll never be able to afford it, but I can get a beautiful gas car for only 
> $18,000 or maybe even $16,000 and the price of gas is going to go down since 
> they are going to be drilling for more of it, so it will be cheaper. Why 
> should I waste my time with electric cars?
> 
> 
> 
> And I really take issue with “industry has started to invest heavily in EV’s” 
> What are you referring to? All the parts except a few are just pulled from 
> other cars, they even make the EV in gas version, or the gas version in an 
> EV… And besides, there is a $7000 tax rebate on EV’s that is not being 
> collected by the government.  And what about the road tax, since EV’s don’t 
> buy gas, they don’t pay road tax… 
> 
> 
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> 
> Tucson AZ 85719
> 
> 
> 
> From: Peri Hartman [mailto:pe...@kotatko.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 4:14 PM
> To: Rush Dougherty; 'Bill Woodcock'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
> 
> 
> 
> I'm concerned about that Trump statement, too. However, while he can use 
> executive order to change a lot of things, he has to abide by congress for 
> major changes. Plus the auto industry has started to invest heavily in EVs 
> and I don't think they are going to change course abruptly. They will likely 
> wait at least until the midterm elections to see which way congress goes. Am 
> I being too optimistic?
> 
> 
> 
> Peir
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> 
> From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> 
> To: "'Bill Woodcock'" <wo...@pch.net>; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" 
> <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> 
> Cc: 
> 
> Sent: 09-Nov-16 3:01:20 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his first 
> 100
> 
> days -
> 
> "FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion 
> dollars'
> 
> worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, 
> natural gas
> 
> and clean coal."
> 
> 
> 
> More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it all 
> over
> 
> again.
> 
> 
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> 
> Tucson AZ 85719
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Woodcock via EV
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM
> 
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for trump realize 
>> the
> 
>> mess that he is
> 
> going to put us in.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that not the null set, seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> -Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

Folks, keep this thread on topic and non-partisan, please.

Thanks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Impeachment: that would be a first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Lee Hart via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc:
Sent: 09-Nov-16 8:49:47 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

“Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night.” (Bette Davis, 
in "All about Eve")


MANY imponderables are at work here. The major actors are used to 
playing their parts according to their party's script. They don't have 
to think; just act.


When Bush took office in 2000, he could count on the Republicans in 
Congress to back him. Thus he was able to quickly gut the EV mandates 
PV/wind incentives, and environmental laws in general. That pretty much 
killed the nascent EV movement.


Trump may try to do it again; but he doesn't have the backing. He's ad 
libbing it. No telling what he'll do, or whether Congress will support 
or oppose him.


But I suspect the EV movement (and Tesla in particular) is heading for 
hard times. The big automakers will abandon EVs as fast as they did in 
2000 if they can change the mandates and regulations (and if Tesla 
weren't out there proving that EVs work after all).


I heard Ralph Nader's take on it. He thinks Trump is bound to do 
something stupid or illegal. Given the number of enemies he has (in 
both parties), he'll get impeached before he can do any serious damage.


-- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Robert Pike via EV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoravkGb6Lg


On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Bill Woodcock via EV 
wrote:

>
> > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
> wrote:
> > I seriously wonder if the people on this list… who voted for trump
> realize the mess that he is going to put us in.
>
> Is that not the null set, seriously?
>
> -Bill
>
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[David Nelson via EV]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
wrote:

> Peri and all,
>
>
>   And what about the road tax, since EV’s don’t buy gas, they don’t pay
> road tax…
>
>
Really? I pay $150/year for my 830lbs 3-wheeled single passenger Gizmo! My
per mile tax rate last year was $0.094/mi when on my 5600lbs full size
pickup it was $0.028/mi. Do you call that equitable? I sure don't.

Also, presuming that one votes entirely based on environmental policy is
quite narrow thinking and unrealistic. Why don't we quit the stereo-typing
and just talk the issues?

-- 
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://www.levforum.com
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Hoegberg via EV]

> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 16:22:48 -0800
> To: j...@k6ccc.org; ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
> From: ev@lists.evdl.org
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Jim Walls via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>> Not trying to agree or disagree, but remember that one of the biggest
>> issues with the US economy is the regular moving of jobs off-shore. A
>> second is a substantial un-balance of trade. Mr. Trump has somewhat
>> regularly pushed that we need to get Americans working again. If he is
>> able to enact his item five, it will put a bunch of Americans to work in
>> largely well paying jobs, and reduce oil imports which will have at least a
>> little improvement in the balance of trade.
>
>
> That's a good argument, except that it completely ignores the large number
> of people employed in the U.S. in "clean energy" industries, for which
> Trump would remove incentives. Solar jobs alone amount to 205,000 jobs.

Im sure he/his party dont ignore this rapidly growing industry(..money) and 
the new companies IN the right country that they want all jobs and money 
to stay in, and Tesla really is a fantastic leader, Even Trumb will understand 
this

> Moving all those people into the coal/oil/gas industry is stupid, on many
> levels. How many rooftop solar installers would rather mine coal??

Hehe,  :-)


Speaking of carbon, here is UN talk Regarding Climate change 
and the "before the Flood"-film From National Geographic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-FM845giaI
6m, Published on Apr 22, 2016 United Nations - Statement by
Mr. Leonardo DiCaprio, United Nations Messenger of 
Peace at the opening of the High-level Signature Ceremony 
for the Paris Agreement.



And a fresh talk from Obama/Leonardo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxHKsaG6Guc

"Published on Oct 3, 2016
-On Monday, DiCaprio and Obama were joined by climate scientist 
Katharine Hayhoe from Texas Tech University. DiCaprio, who 
took on the role of interviewer for the evening, began by 
thanking Obama for his “extraordinary leadership” on environmental 
issues. “If you do not believe in climate change, you do not believe 
in facts,” the actor said, noting that anyone who doesn’t agree with 
the settled science “should not hold public office.” That comment, a 
clear dig at candidates like at Donald Trump who has called climate 
change a hoax perpetrated by China, was met with loud cheers from 
the crowd in attendance.

In turn, Obama told DiCaprio that he is “very proud” of his 
administration’s record on climate action, citing last year’s Paris 
agreement as an example of the progress being made. But he 
also admitted that even if every country held up their end of 
the bargain, it wouldn’t be enough. "Climate change is happening 
at a faster rate than what was predicted even 5 years ago,” the 
president said, adding that we’re in a “race against time.” While 
the idea of a carbon tax also got a big ovation from attendees, the 
president admitted the likelihood of any “immediate” action in 
that area is still a “ways away.”"


And, take a look at the film they made, 
/ John
  
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Jim wrote -

> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Walls [mailto:j...@k6ccc.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 4:43 PM
> To: Rush Dougherty; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>
> Not trying to agree or disagree, but remember that one of the biggest issues
with the US
> economy is the regular moving of jobs off-shore.

I'm no economist but as I understand it, one of the reasons jobs move off-shore
is that the wages are cheaper overseas. And as we all know the only people
willing to take low paying jobs here in the US are immigrants... And Trump is
going to kick all of them out...

>A second is a substantial un-balance of
> trade.  Mr. Trump has somewhat regularly pushed that we need to get Americans
working
> again.  If he is able to enact his item five, it will put a bunch of Americans
to work in largely
> well paying jobs, and reduce oil imports which will have at least a little
improvement in the
> balance of trade.

That statement 'if he can' is pure speculation  and I'm not sure if Oklahoma
wants to have fracking continued... as I understand it they have a massive
increase in earthquakes so maybe it is not such a good idea to open up new
fields for fracking and drilling considering what it has done to our drinking
water, streams, natural habitat, mountain tops etc.

>  Although Rush Dougherty added the comment about no clean energy nor EVs,
there is
> nothing in Trump's statement to that effect (as included in his message).  To
assume things
> that are not there is speculation.
>
>  Also note that this discussion is really off-topic for the list...

No it's not, it pertains to EV's and how Trump is planning to increase the
production of oil, which I think most of us are against since we are on this
Electric Vehicle Discussion List.

>  Jim Walls
>
>
>
>   Original Message 
> > From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 3:02 PM
> > To: "Bill Woodcock" <wo...@pch.net>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
> >
> > Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his
> first 100
> > days -
> > "FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion
> dollars'
> > worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil,
> natural gas
> > and clean coal."
> >
> > More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to
> > it
> all over
> > again.
> >
> > Rush Dougherty
> > Tucson AZ 85719
>



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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Peri and all,

 

Just think a little about the average mentality – America loves oil, it makes 
their cars go for miles and miles and miles, and all it takes to fill up is a 
stop at the local 711, where you can get a hot dog and a coke or coffee by the 
way, or buy a lottery ticket (which you have 1 in a zillion chances to win). 
The only real EV is the Tesla. Look at the Leaf – it has battery problems and 
it takes hours to recharge the battery pack and you can only recharge in a 
couple places what a pia. And the Tesla is very very expensive, I’ll never be 
able to afford it, but I can get a beautiful gas car for only $18,000 or maybe 
even $16,000 and the price of gas is going to go down since they are going to 
be drilling for more of it, so it will be cheaper. Why should I waste my time 
with electric cars?

 

And I really take issue with “industry has started to invest heavily in EV’s” 
What are you referring to? All the parts except a few are just pulled from 
other cars, they even make the EV in gas version, or the gas version in an EV… 
And besides, there is a $7000 tax rebate on EV’s that is not being collected by 
the government.  And what about the road tax, since EV’s don’t buy gas, they 
don’t pay road tax… 

 

Rush Dougherty

Tucson AZ 85719

 

From: Peri Hartman [mailto:pe...@kotatko.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 4:14 PM
To: Rush Dougherty; 'Bill Woodcock'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

 

I'm concerned about that Trump statement, too. However, while he can use 
executive order to change a lot of things, he has to abide by congress for 
major changes. Plus the auto industry has started to invest heavily in EVs and 
I don't think they are going to change course abruptly. They will likely wait 
at least until the midterm elections to see which way congress goes. Am I being 
too optimistic?

 

Peir

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

To: "'Bill Woodcock'" <wo...@pch.net>; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>

Cc: 

Sent: 09-Nov-16 3:01:20 PM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

 

Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his first 100

days -

"FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars'

worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural 
gas

and clean coal."

 

More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it all 
over

again.

 

Rush Dougherty

Tucson AZ 85719

 

 

 -Original Message-

 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Woodcock via EV

 Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM

 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

 

 

 > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

 > I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for trump realize 
 > the

 > mess that he is

 going to put us in.

 

 Is that not the null set, seriously?

 

 -Bill

 

 

 

 

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 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

 

 

 

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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[ROBERT via EV]

 Think you mean empty set not null set. Or maybe it is a set with one zero.



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Woodcock via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 3:51 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's


> On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> I seriously wonder if the people on this list... who voted for trump realize 
> the mess that he is going to put us in.

Is that not the null set, seriously?

-Bill




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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

I think you are being optimistic.  Trump has a Republican Senate and House 
also.  There isn't much to slow him down.

I do take hope in the fact that EV and solar cell technology have both 
developed enough that they may do ok without government incentives any more.  I 
think it is slightly too early for that, but I think we are close.

That would be the ultimate message to leaders:  Even without incentives, the 
adoption rate still continues building.  That is the free market forces 
speaking.  

Mike


On November 9, 2016 4:13:52 PM MST, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
wrote:
>I'm concerned about that Trump statement, too. However, while he can
>use 
>executive order to change a lot of things, he has to abide by congress 
>for major changes. Plus the auto industry has started to invest heavily
>
>in EVs and I don't think they are going to change course abruptly. They
>
>will likely wait at least until the midterm elections to see which way 
>congress goes. Am I being too optimistic?
>
>Peir
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>To: "'Bill Woodcock'" <wo...@pch.net>; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion 
>List'" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>Cc:
>Sent: 09-Nov-16 3:01:20 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>
>>Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his
>
>>first 100
>>days -
>>"FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion
>
>>dollars'
>>worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil,
>
>>natural gas
>>and clean coal."
>>
>>More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to
>
>>it all over
>>again.
>>
>>Rush Dougherty
>>Tucson AZ 85719
>>
>>
>>>  -Original Message-
>>>  From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill 
>>>Woodcock via EV
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM
>>>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>>>
>>>
>>>  > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
>>><ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>>>  > I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for
>trump 
>>>realize the
>>>  > mess that he is
>>>  going to put us in.
>>>
>>>  Is that not the null set, seriously?
>>>
>>>  -Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>drag racing at
>>>  NEDRA
>>>  (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Thos True via EV]

Bush Jr. did it one swipe of the pen during his first 100 days. I remember
it clearly, within days of his CAFE action, the sales of conversion kits at
our shop dropped immediately, and never recovered. The auto makers stopped
selling NEV's, and the hybrids scaled their production way back.
You can expect that Europe , South America, and Asia will continue to
improve their air quality, but it seems that the good ol boys want to
produce money, instead of clean air.
As a result, we will surely be left behind in the growth of most
technologies.
Just my opinion BTW..

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> I'm concerned about that Trump statement, too. However, while he can use
> executive order to change a lot of things, he has to abide by congress for
> major changes. Plus the auto industry has started to invest heavily in EVs
> and I don't think they are going to change course abruptly. They will
> likely wait at least until the midterm elections to see which way congress
> goes. Am I being too optimistic?
>
> Peir
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> To: "'Bill Woodcock'" <wo...@pch.net>; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List'" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Cc:
> Sent: 09-Nov-16 3:01:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>
> Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his
>> first 100
>> days -
>> "FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion
>> dollars'
>> worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil,
>> natural gas
>> and clean coal."
>>
>> More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it
>> all over
>> again.
>>
>> Rush Dougherty
>> Tucson AZ 85719
>>
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>>>  From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Woodcock
>>> via EV
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM
>>>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>>>
>>>
>>>  > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>  > I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for trump
>>> realize the
>>>  > mess that he is
>>>  going to put us in.
>>>
>>>  Is that not the null set, seriously?
>>>
>>>  -Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>  ___
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>>>  Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
>>> racing at
>>>  NEDRA
>>>  (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I'm concerned about that Trump statement, too. However, while he can use 
executive order to change a lot of things, he has to abide by congress 
for major changes. Plus the auto industry has started to invest heavily 
in EVs and I don't think they are going to change course abruptly. They 
will likely wait at least until the midterm elections to see which way 
congress goes. Am I being too optimistic?


Peir

-- Original Message --
From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "'Bill Woodcock'" <wo...@pch.net>; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List'" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

Cc:
Sent: 09-Nov-16 3:01:20 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his 
first 100

days -
"FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion 
dollars'
worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, 
natural gas

and clean coal."

More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to 
it all over

again.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719



 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill 
Woodcock via EV

 Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's


 > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
 > I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for trump 
realize the

 > mess that he is
 going to put us in.

 Is that not the null set, seriously?

 -Bill




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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Thos True via EV]

It does not even begin to end at the EV / PV level. You can expect an
effort to repeal any and all EPA regulations, among others.
I dare say that we have dipped our toe into the perverbial Pandora's box of
reality the likes of which we may never have imagined.

Buckle up folks, this looks to be a VERY bumpy ride!

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
wrote:

> Here's just one article about Turnip's view on climate change -
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/
> wp/2016/11/09/trump-victo
> ry-reverses-u-s-energy-and-environmental-priorities/?tid=pm_business_pop_b
>
> "Although Trump has portrayed himself as the ultimate outsider, in putting
> together a transition team the New York real estate mogul has chosen
> veteran
> Washington insiders, many of them lobbyists for fossil fuel companies and
> skeptics about climate science."
>
> And you can be sure that as soon as those "lobbyists for fossil fuel
> companies"
> have any sort of say or power all the EV benefits will be thrown out the
> window... no more PV discussions, no more wind power discussion.
>
> I seriously wonder if the people on this list, who have EV's or who are
> proponents of EV's and who voted for trump realize the mess that he is
> going to
> put us in.
>
> Rush Dougherty
> Tucson AZ 85719
>
>
>
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>
>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his first 
100 
days -
"FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars' 
worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural 
gas 
and clean coal."

More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it all 
over 
again.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Woodcock via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>
>
> > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> > I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for trump realize 
> > the 
> > mess that he is
> going to put us in.
>
> Is that not the null set, seriously?
>
> -Bill
>
>
>
>
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> at 
> NEDRA
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Bill Woodcock via EV]

> On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV  wrote:
> I seriously wonder if the people on this list… who voted for trump realize 
> the mess that he is going to put us in.

Is that not the null set, seriously?

-Bill




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[EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

Here's just one article about Turnip's view on climate change -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/11/09/trump-victo
ry-reverses-u-s-energy-and-environmental-priorities/?tid=pm_business_pop_b

"Although Trump has portrayed himself as the ultimate outsider, in putting
together a transition team the New York real estate mogul has chosen veteran
Washington insiders, many of them lobbyists for fossil fuel companies and
skeptics about climate science."

And you can be sure that as soon as those "lobbyists for fossil fuel companies"
have any sort of say or power all the EV benefits will be thrown out the
window... no more PV discussions, no more wind power discussion.

I seriously wonder if the people on this list, who have EV's or who are
proponents of EV's and who voted for trump realize the mess that he is going to
put us in.

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719



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