Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
Per wheel? Are you planning to beat Mate Rimac's 1000+ HP car? The smallest, the 250, would make your vehicle zip, with 118 ft-lb continuous, 184 ft-lb peak torque, and 120 HP peak (350V). Yeah, I imagine they are expensive. Then you need a controller that will supply that voltage and power, also expensive. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Feasibility-Converting-a-Subaru-Sambar-Micro-Van-to-Electric-tp4673884p4674245.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
Perhaps you are thinking of Agni Motors, started by Cedric Lynch? http://www.agnimotors.com/ -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Feasibility-Converting-a-Subaru-Sambar-Micro-Van-to-Electric-tp4673884p4674178.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
There are a few of us out here who have the old Jet Electravans, which are very similar to that little van you posted. It was based around an 80's Subaru 600 body and would make a good case study. Mine's been heavily modified and upgraded over the years, but if I recall, the stock Electravans ran just fine on 102v of 6v trojans with a 9 DC GE motor, good for about 40 miles. With a lithium pack and some updated components, it's not hard to get good range and performance out of such a small package. And the reduced weight of lithium takes a lot of stress off of the system. I only say this because I know your range requirements are really low and you might be tempted with lead, but I would only consider lithium at this stage - take it from someone who's owned both. A wrecked Nissan Leaf pack might make a good option - I've seen them sold as half packs (12kwh @ 180v). Even if you went with lower grade DC components for your build (think Curtis instead of Zilla), 90v in parallel would get you the 40 miles you need and reasonable performance given the driving patterns you mentioned, I reckon. On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 19 Feb 2015 at 8:14, tomw via EV wrote: Easiest is to purchase a motor/controller package from one of the suppliers. Purchasing a used fork lift motor requires doing more homework to learn which type to buy - depends on how much time and effort you want to spend. It's a little dated now because you CAN buy a factory EV at the dealer, but several years ago, a couple of us EVDLers dreamed up an EV acquisition map. The y and x axes are cost and level of effort. IMO, this applies to EV conversion as a subcase, too. http://www.evdl.org/docs/ev_acquisition_continuum.pdf David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150220/a297ecfe/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
Oh actually - and regarding your solar panel idea - most people will tell you that's a pipe dream and you'd need a gigantic array to get even a slight range boost and that it will wreck your aerodynamics - but hey, my van was just such an experiment when on campus at Mankato State. There's a photo of it here: http://www.evalbum.com/4126 If I recall from the materials that came with my van when I bought it, the panels boosted efficiency by 20% on average. Not bad! and that was 1982! I can't say I cared for the repairs I had to make to all the dents left by the solar rack in my thin metal on the roof, but whatever... it can be done! On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 12:00 AM, J Bills jbillsn...@flickfx.com wrote: There are a few of us out here who have the old Jet Electravans, which are very similar to that little van you posted. It was based around an 80's Subaru 600 body and would make a good case study. Mine's been heavily modified and upgraded over the years, but if I recall, the stock Electravans ran just fine on 102v of 6v trojans with a 9 DC GE motor, good for about 40 miles. With a lithium pack and some updated components, it's not hard to get good range and performance out of such a small package. And the reduced weight of lithium takes a lot of stress off of the system. I only say this because I know your range requirements are really low and you might be tempted with lead, but I would only consider lithium at this stage - take it from someone who's owned both. A wrecked Nissan Leaf pack might make a good option - I've seen them sold as half packs (12kwh @ 180v). Even if you went with lower grade DC components for your build (think Curtis instead of Zilla), 90v in parallel would get you the 40 miles you need and reasonable performance given the driving patterns you mentioned, I reckon. On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 19 Feb 2015 at 8:14, tomw via EV wrote: Easiest is to purchase a motor/controller package from one of the suppliers. Purchasing a used fork lift motor requires doing more homework to learn which type to buy - depends on how much time and effort you want to spend. It's a little dated now because you CAN buy a factory EV at the dealer, but several years ago, a couple of us EVDLers dreamed up an EV acquisition map. The y and x axes are cost and level of effort. IMO, this applies to EV conversion as a subcase, too. http://www.evdl.org/docs/ev_acquisition_continuum.pdf David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150220/7b2893fe/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
I should add that I assumed you would be satisfied with very slow acceleration. If not, you will require a larger motor with more torque. To give you a an idea of what is required...my car has about 1200 ft-lb torque at the wheels in first gear (about 90 ft-lb motor torque) and accelerates at 6 mph/sec in that gear. This would give a 0 to 60 mph time of 10 seconds, but of course the car won't go nearly that fast in first gear, speed is around 35 mph with the motor at 7500 rpm. I don't drive at that speed in first gear because it is hard on the transmission, and also note that max rpm for a 8 or 9 series DC motor is about 5500 rpm (mine is AC). In addition to a larger motor for direct drive, you would have to put a lot of current through it to get more torque, so would require something like a Zilla motor controller which gives 1000A. Even then a 9 motor with Zilla will give around 240 ft-lb motor torque I think, which would give about a fifth the wheel torque my car has in first gear, so if used in a vehicle the weight of my car would give about a fifth the acceleration rate. You would do much better acceleration-wise if you could add a fixed ratio gear box, or a manual transmission from another vehicle. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Feasibility-Converting-a-Subaru-Sambar-Micro-Van-to-Electric-tp4673884p4673893.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
Nice. A guy I know here used to have a newer version of that converted ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
Ugh. didn't mean to hit the send button... Nice little vehicle. 1) Not aerodynamic, but fairly light weight at 1600lbs (less without the ICE), would this be a good car to convert? A guy I know here used to have a newer version of that converted to electric. I think it would be a great conversion if it's reasonably mechanically sound. 2) The ECVT transmission is failing, so the thought is to do a transmissionless conversion - I've read that this is frowned upon, but would it be a deal breaker here? It will create the need for higher amp draw during startup and may lead to sluggish acceleration (all depending on motor and batteries) but I think it would be fine for your environment. Realize, though, that you may be driving the motor too slow for maximum efficiency (wheels turn roughly 800rpm at 50mph). The motor I cite below gives maximum torque between 0 and 2800 rpm and its most efficient speed is really around 3000 rpm. 3) We only need it to go a maximum range of about 25 miles (and often less than that) two or three times a week. The max speed we've ever driven the car is 50mph, and typically our average speed is 35mph. Traffic is light where we are, no hills. What kind of motor, controller, and battery would be recommended for this? (The bed underneath the rear passenger seats almosts looks as if it was made to accommodate batteries, so I think battery size is not a problem if they can lie flat, if not, I can just put them upright somewhere in the cargo bay) 4) Roughly how much would this cost for the parts? Of course I don't know about suppliers and such in Japan but if it was mine here's what I would use: Motor controller: HPEVS AC-35 w/1238-7601 $3500 Charger: Thunderstruck motors PFC-II 2500 and Charge Controller: $750 Batteries: CALB CA100FI either 23 for 72volts $4100 or 34 for 108volts $5100 DC-DC Converter: Elcon 400W: $230 Figure another $1000 - $2000 for things like wiring, fuses, battery connectors, instrumentation. I suspect it doesn't have power steering or power brakes so you probably don't need to install a vacuum pump or power steering pump. 5) The paint on our roof is peeling a bit, so this seems like the ideal time to also throw a solar panel array on the top of the roof if we make it into an EV. While not expected to charge the car fully, I was thinking it could recharge the car somewhat (we have an uncovered parking spot that gets good sunlight - apart from the rainy season - and sometimes don't drive the car for a day or two) between drives. There is also an EV quick charge station near our place. Any thoughts on this? I've never been sold on the concept except using a small one to keep the 12 volt battery charged. Adding a solar controller to charge a high voltage pack from a relatively small panel adds a lot of cost for little gain. I'd invest the money in the connector to allow you to use the EV quick charge station. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
Cute vehicle! You could easily meet your requirements converting it to electric. Direct drive should work fine over this speed range, and you will require only modest torque and power due to the light weight and relatively low desired top speed. Aerodynamics will not affect performance that much at the lower speeds you require. Battery cost will be lower than most conversions since you only require around 25 mile range. For your requirements an 8 diameter motor should be fine - DC or AC. What you should use depends on your skills/knowledge and budget. Cheapest approach is too find a salvaged fork lift motor. These are usually series DC type. There are a number of suppliers of ev parts such as EVsource, EVWest, and KTA-ev, from whom you can purchase a controller for the motor as well as other required parts such as DC/DC converter and battery pack charger. Cheapest batteries are lead acid traction batteries such as those made for golf carts (starter batteries will fail quickly, since they are not made for sustained higher currents). If you have the budget, it would be much nicer to use LiFePO4, or LFP cells, as they require no maintenance, have much higher specific energy (more energy per weight), and last longer than lead acid in ev applications. The above suppliers sell these. Cost will likely be around $8000 to $12000 depending on component and battery choices, which will determine how reliable the conversion is. You can cobble something together for lower cost, using lower quality and used parts/batteries, but it will be less reliable. I'd suggest using good quality components and batteries if you want trouble-free operation. I suggest you look at files here and at the wiki on diyelectriccar on converting a vehicle to electric to get a better idea of what is required. Then look at parts available from the suppliers. Also check evalbum.com to see what types of conversions have been done and the components used. My car is www.evalbum.com/3060, and the same motor would work fine for your vehicle. You could use 36 100Ah cells with it to more than meet your requirements. Or use an 8 DC motor such as Advance DC, or a one from Netgain and a DC motor controller, for a bit lower cost. Easiest is to purchase a motor/controller package from one of the suppliers. Purchasing a used fork lift motor requires doing more homework to learn which type to buy - depends on how much time and effort you want to spend. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Feasibility-Converting-a-Subaru-Sambar-Micro-Van-to-Electric-tp4673884p4673885.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Feasibility: Converting a Subaru Sambar Micro Van to Electric?
On 19 Feb 2015 at 8:14, tomw via EV wrote: Easiest is to purchase a motor/controller package from one of the suppliers. Purchasing a used fork lift motor requires doing more homework to learn which type to buy - depends on how much time and effort you want to spend. It's a little dated now because you CAN buy a factory EV at the dealer, but several years ago, a couple of us EVDLers dreamed up an EV acquisition map. The y and x axes are cost and level of effort. IMO, this applies to EV conversion as a subcase, too. http://www.evdl.org/docs/ev_acquisition_continuum.pdf David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
