[EVDL] Harley-Davidson livewire flop> (other e-motorcycle options)

[evln via EV]

https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-motorcycles-market-harley-livewire-zero-photos-specs-2020-3
Harley-Davidson's EV motorcycle flopped, but there are
other options
Several electric-bike startups — based in the US and abroad — are looking to
get in on the EV trend. Take a look at some of the electric motorcycles
competing ...
https://i.insider.com/5e6fa08cc485404018341572


+
https://tiresandparts.net/news/new-business-ideas/jaguar-land-rover-backs-new-electric-car-chauffeur-service/
Jaguar Land Rover Backs New Electric Car Chauffeur
Service
March 15, 2020  The Havn service initially would have a fleet of over 10
Jaguar I-Pace electric cars. In the event that the trials conclude
successfully, Jaguar Land Rover plans to ...
https://tiresandparts.net/wp-content/uploads/Havn.jpeg




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[EVDL] Harley-Davidson e-Scooter (a 70's Auranthetic Charger knockoff)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/harley-davidson-electric-scooter-design-filings.html
Harley-Davidson Electric Scooter Design Filings
January 10, 2020  Dennis Chung

[images  
https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/011020-harley-davidson-electric-scooter-concept.jpg

https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/011020-harley-davidson-electric-scooter-concept-f.png

https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/011020-harley-davidson-electric-scooter-concept-03.png

https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/011020-harley-davidson-electric-scooter-concept-05.png

https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/011020-harley-davidson-presentation-slide.png
]

Lightweight electric urban mobility vehicle inches closer to production

A little over a year ago, Harley-Davidson revealed two electric two-wheeler
concepts [
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/harley-davidson-reveals-two-electric-urban-mobility-concepts-at-ces.html
], an electric mountain bike and a scooter that resembled an old Briggs &
Stratton minibike. Today, the European Union Intellectual Property Office
published multiple design filings that give us a peek at what the production
version of that electric scooter may look like.

Until now, the only images of the scooter Harley Davidson has released were
for the original concept [
https://www.motorcycle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/010719-2019-harley-davidson-HD-Electric-Concept-2.jpg
], a video of a prototype being ridden during X Games [
https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/harley-davidson/harley-davidsons-electric-urban-mobility-concept-videos.html
], and a single image of an updated concept tucked away on Harley-Davidson’s
website [
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/electric.html
].

Thanks to the design filings, we now have a better look at the bike from
multiple angles, as well as a look at the electric motor and battery unit.
Harley-Davidson submitted multiple filings to the EUIPO, showing different
parts of the scooter. The designs were all filed Oct. 23, 2019, but only
fully registered and published today.

The design filings look fairly similar to the bike in the photo above, and
is much further along than the original concept shown last year. The frame
looks much more refined, with the electric drive unit no longer serving as a
load bearing part of the chassis. The floorboards are also further improved,
compared to the sawed-off skateboards that were bolted onto the original
concept. The ring headlight remains, but the updated concept design adds a
combination tail light/license plate assembly.

The electric drive unit in particular looks production-ready, compared to
the blocky black box on the original concept. The scooter remains
belt-driven,  The design filing looks further advanced than even the drive
unit on the color photo with the addition of mounting points. There’s also a
small, circular shape right ahead of the motor that is not present in the
photo; based on their location, these are likely buttons for ejecting the
battery.

As these filings are merely for the appearance of the various parts, there
are no technical details included for the bike, the motor or the engine. The
bottom view of the battery unit, however, does give us an idea of how its
connectors are laid out.

There are a few parts missing in the illustrations. The designs lack brakes
(though there are mounting points on the fork for the front brakes), grips,
hand controls and mirrors, all of which can be easily added at any point.

The as-yet-unnamed electric scooter is part of Harley-Davidson’s larger plan
to grow by expanding into new segments. This lightweight electric vehicle
isn’t designed for H-D’s existing core. Instead, as the slide from the
company’s Q3 presentation in September shows, Harley-Davidson is targeting
customers who are curious about the brand, but do not necessarily think of
themselves as potential Harley riders.

Priced appropriately, the electric scooter could establish a niche audience
for Harley, though naturally, we’d have to see what kind of performance
figures and battery details the Harley-Davidson will offer.
[© motorcycle.com]


https://electrek.co/2020/01/12/see-the-upcoming-harley-davidson-electric-scooter-in-most-detailed-view-yet/
See the upcoming Harley-Davidson electric scooter in most detailed view yet
Jan. 12th 2020  Harley-Davidson electric scooter design filings show it in
the ... The motor and battery appear to be custom designs developed in-house
by Harley-Davidson, likely as a result of the company's investment in an
electric vehicle ...
https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/01/Harley-Davidsn-electric-scooter-header.jpg


[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/1975-Auranthetic-Charger-Electric-Motorcycle-tp4696042p4696044.html
1975 Auranthetic Charger Electric Motorcycle
Dec 30, 2019
]




For EVLN 

Re: [EVDL] Harley Davidson

[Chris Tromley via EV]

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Seth Rothenberg via EV 
wrote:

> I saw this in the news todaypeople seem to be of two minds about it
>
>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-30/
> harley-davidson-is-making-an-electric-motorcycle-after-livewire


​Catching up on my list reading here,​ but this is an issue I can actually
contribute to.

It's well-known in the motorcycle biz that sales are dropping.  The average
age of a motorcyclist is pretty high, and that demographic is rapidly aging
out of the sport.  Millennials don't seem to care about driving cars, let
alone riding motorcycles.  This phenomenon hits Harley harder, because they
have built their entire business model on slavish devotion to brand without
much thought about technical advancement.  New Harleys are generally just
different paint, bodywork, wheels, etc.  What little technical changes they
make are driven mostly by the need to meet noise and emissions standards,
or to (just barely) keep up with the minimum advances in utility the rest
of the industry demands.  Today's Harleys are really just retro bikes (a
niche that tries to capture past glory in a somewhat-modernized current
bike), but Harley would never admit that.  They make a huge amount of their
profits from clothing, accessories and nick-knacks.

A recent new hot rod model of the 750 Street (more below) is less capable
and a lot less versatile than the Honda 750 that upended the entire
industry 40 years ago.  So basically, Harleys are for riders who value
style more than substance, or who can convince themselves there is
substance where there is in fact very little.  The bikes themselves aren't
terrible, and even fit some limited purposes quite well for some riders
with limited needs, but generally Harley is WAY behind in making
motorcycles that really work.  It's not about the bikes.  It's all brand
and culture.

Harley has tried to break out of this mold.  They created the Buell
subsidiary that made very tasty sport, naked and even ADV bikes with Harley
engines.  There was a small but very devoted following of those bikes,
whose biggest complaint was that they had to go to a Harley dealer and wade
through the 'lifestyle' and pro-Harley, anti-Buell vibe there to get what
they wanted.  Sales were low, executives thought it undercut the Harley
ethos, so they dropped the whole line.

Harley made the V-Rod, a relatively advanced (water cooled!) performance
bike with a drag racing flavor, which also sold in very small numbers and
was dropped.  The V-Rod was really not such a big deviation from their
other products, but the faithful didn't think it was a 'real' Harley.  So
it died.

They built the Streets, 500 and 750 cc 'entry level' bikes to bring in new
riders.  This is an international effort with factories in other
countries.  They're getting some limited sales, but American riders are
mostly staying away.  They want American made, which makes the American
versions more expensive, even with parts from places like India.  And there
is a very well-established wing of the cruiser market called metric
cruisers that sprung up decades ago to cash in on the Harley image.  The
Streets are really metric cruisers.  All the other players are much more
technically advanced and polished than Harley, so Harley is in the
embarrassing position of not measuring up to a market they indirectly
created.

Enter the Livewire.  As you might imagine from the above, the Livewire will
have an uphill battle in a Harley showroom.  It smacks of a desperate
attempt to bring in millennials.  The only competition in the EM space is
Zero, so if the Livewire is release with a 50 mile range it will be DOA.
The base Zero S (which few buy) has a range of 60 miles (combined), and
options bring that to 108 and 138 miles.  The SR goes up to 150.  Zero has
been doing this for many years, and has earned their market-leading
position.  I think they would welcome some competition.  I doubt they're
worried.

What I'd really like to see is Polaris (Harley's biggest competitor with
the Indian brand) bringing back the Empluse.  Maybe the Livewire release
will be incentive enough to do that, and give the EM market some buzz
again.  Sadly, the best result probably won't happen.  The Bloomberg
article makes the briefest mention of the Mission R, but Mission
Motorcycles went bankrupt years ago.  That was due to market forces and the
goals of the moneyed interests involved, not at all to do with the
motorcycles themselves.  Someone needs to buy up the assets of Mission and
bring back the R in a gentlemans' express version, not the racer-crouch
sportbike it was initially released as.  That would give the EM industry a
Tesla Model S on two wheels.  It's gorgeous, extremely capable and has a
price that hasn't deterred ICE-based low volume manufacturers (like Motus)
from remaining viable, profitable and growing.

See

Re: [EVDL] Harley Davidson e-motorcycle

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=LiveWire=date
Archived posts on HD's pre-production  LiveWire

IMO: 50mi range is not enough to compete with the production e-motorcycles
already available. They should offer options for higher range. Also, the
buyer should be able to buy an option to charge at L2-6kW j1772.




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[EVDL] Harley Davidson

[Seth Rothenberg via EV]

I saw this in the news todaypeople seem to be of two minds about it


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-30/harley-davidson-is-making-an-electric-motorcycle-after-livewire

On Tuesday, during a routine earnings call, Harley-Davidson Inc. announced
it will produce an all-electric motorcycle.

The announcement accompanied news of additional job cuts and a plant closure

at the
Milwaukee-based company. It also came four years after Harley unveiled its
“LiveWire” project, a prototype all-electric motorcycle.

“You’ve heard us talk about Project LiveWire,” Matt Levatich, the president
and chief executive officer of Harley-Davidson, told listeners during the
call on Tuesday. “It’s an active project we’re preparing to bring to market
within 18 months.''

If it is anything like its precursor, the new motorcycle, which was not
named, will carry a roughly 50-mile range and be able to go from 0 to 60
miles per hour in 4 seconds. By comparison, Zero’s SR hits 60mph in 3.3
seconds, and the Mission R racer has a top speed of more than 150mph, with
a sub-3-second sprint time. A standard Ducati Monster 1200 motorcycle can
hit 60mph in just under 3 seconds...
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[EVDL] harley-davidson introduces electric motorcycle

[Peri Hartman via EV]

From wired.com:


... Harley isn't saying much about the drivetrain beyond saying the bike 
uses a lithium-ion battery with a range of 53 miles. It charges in 3.5 
hours at 220 volts. Assuming the bike has a 3.3 kw charging system like 
other electric motorcycles, some back-of-the-envelope math suggests the 
LiveWire uses a 10 kilowatt-hour pack. Twist the throttle and the bike 
leaps forward with authority. Roll off the throttle and the regenerative 
braking kicks in, bringing the bike down from speed with due efficiency.


http://www.wired.com/2014/06/harley-davidson-livewire/

(I'm wondering if the 53 miles is a misquote.  Seems pretty minimal for 
this type of bike.  However, the math does add up.)


Peri

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Re: [EVDL] harley-davidson introduces electric motorcycle

[Bill Dube via EV]

From the article and brief video, it looks to be a very clean design.

Hats off to Harley Davidson.

Bill Dube'

On 6/19/2014 8:10 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

From wired.com:


... Harley isn't saying much about the drivetrain beyond saying the 
bike uses a lithium-ion battery with a range of 53 miles. It charges 
in 3.5 hours at 220 volts. Assuming the bike has a 3.3 kw charging 
system like other electric motorcycles, some back-of-the-envelope math 
suggests the LiveWire uses a 10 kilowatt-hour pack. Twist the throttle 
and the bike leaps forward with authority. Roll off the throttle and 
the regenerative braking kicks in, bringing the bike down from speed 
with due efficiency.


http://www.wired.com/2014/06/harley-davidson-livewire/

(I'm wondering if the 53 miles is a misquote.  Seems pretty minimal 
for this type of bike.  However, the math does add up.)


Peri

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Re: [EVDL] harley-davidson introduces electric motorcycle

[VJ Picotte via EV]

I read a 130 mile range.

- Original Message -
From: Bill Dube via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2014 10:53:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] harley-davidson introduces electric motorcycle

 From the article and brief video, it looks to be a very clean design.

Hats off to Harley Davidson.

Bill Dube'

On 6/19/2014 8:10 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
 From wired.com:

 ... Harley isn't saying much about the drivetrain beyond saying the 
 bike uses a lithium-ion battery with a range of 53 miles. It charges 
 in 3.5 hours at 220 volts. Assuming the bike has a 3.3 kw charging 
 system like other electric motorcycles, some back-of-the-envelope math 
 suggests the LiveWire uses a 10 kilowatt-hour pack. Twist the throttle 
 and the bike leaps forward with authority. Roll off the throttle and 
 the regenerative braking kicks in, bringing the bike down from speed 
 with due efficiency.

 http://www.wired.com/2014/06/harley-davidson-livewire/

 (I'm wondering if the 53 miles is a misquote.  Seems pretty minimal 
 for this type of bike.  However, the math does add up.)

 Peri

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