Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

Don't know anymore details, I'm in Oregon and I saw this happened in "Newport 
Oregon" which is directly on the Oregon Coast.   I think thesechargers are 
within spitting distance of the ocean.

Lot's of rain/salt/wind here especially .  Tough environment for outside 
electrical connections especially probably aluminum ones.   Also (and I speak 
fromexperience), URD (underground rated) has a much thicker heavier insulation 
on it, and it's difficult to get that insulation off WITHOUT 
accidentally"nicking" the aluminum wires which are much more brittle than 
copper and mechanically weakens them alot.   I'm fairly careful, but I've 
screwed upand seen a connection I thought was good turn out that half the 
strands broke later.

One thing that seemed to help was to use one of those little "close cutter pipe 
cutters" to take off the insulation.

underground Aluminum feeder wire is MUCH cheaper for high amperage connections 
so it's everywhere.  





-- If we don't halt population growth with justice and compassion, it will be 
done for us by nature, brutally and without pity - and will leave a ravaged 
world. Nobel Laureate Dr. Henry W. Kendall 
 

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 11:03:56 AM PST, Lee Hart via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
> I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel):
> https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI
> 
> It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices
> concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of
> EVSEs.

It's a good video showing what can go wrong. But it's worth noting that 
even these drastic failures did NOT cause a fire or shock hazard. The 
safety standards did what they are supposed to do.

The examples all appeared to use aluminum wire. It's much harder to make 
a reliable connection with it. Aluminum wire should only be used with 
connectors explicitly rated for it. Aluminum is also less conductive 
than copper, so you have to de-rate the devices accordingly.

Another aspect is the duty cycle. When UL rates something as "60 amps", 
that's the maximum current; not the average current rating. Electrical 
items should not be used continuously at more than 80% of its max rating.

Finally, there was no failure analysis as to whether these items were 
actually UL listed, and installed correctly in the first place. I've 
seen a lot of things that claim to be UL listed but are in fact cheap 
offshore junk with fake UL markings. And I've often found electrical 
installations with undersized wire or connectors, or where the screws 
were never fully tightened, etc. I think these are the real problems.

(It also irked me that they continuously referred to the EVSE 
connections as the "charger". But that's just me.)

Lee Hart

-- 
"#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked
what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA

[Ed Blackmond via EV]

> On Dec 2, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> (It also irked me that they continuously referred to the EVSE connections as 
> the "charger". But that's just me.)
> 
It’s not just you.
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Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:

I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel):
https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI

It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices
concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of
EVSEs.


It's a good video showing what can go wrong. But it's worth noting that 
even these drastic failures did NOT cause a fire or shock hazard. The 
safety standards did what they are supposed to do.


The examples all appeared to use aluminum wire. It's much harder to make 
a reliable connection with it. Aluminum wire should only be used with 
connectors explicitly rated for it. Aluminum is also less conductive 
than copper, so you have to de-rate the devices accordingly.


Another aspect is the duty cycle. When UL rates something as "60 amps", 
that's the maximum current; not the average current rating. Electrical 
items should not be used continuously at more than 80% of its max rating.


Finally, there was no failure analysis as to whether these items were 
actually UL listed, and installed correctly in the first place. I've 
seen a lot of things that claim to be UL listed but are in fact cheap 
offshore junk with fake UL markings. And I've often found electrical 
installations with undersized wire or connectors, or where the screws 
were never fully tightened, etc. I think these are the real problems.


(It also irked me that they continuously referred to the EVSE 
connections as the "charger". But that's just me.)


Lee Hart

--
"#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked
what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 Maybe physical connections need regular maintenance. Retorquing connections 
possibly. Lawrence Rhodes 
On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 07:03:28 AM PST, Peter Eckhoff 
 wrote:  
 
 I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel):
https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI

It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices
concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of
EVSEs.  The insides of a junction box literally melted.  Followed by a
show and tell and then discussions on products and the call for safety
standards and a suggestion on wiring a breaker panel.

Not being an electrician or EE, I thought this is a place to maybe
make us aware of the situation and thoughts of what we can do about
it.


On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 10:24 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:
>
> https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/ford-f-150-lighting-evidently-bricked-while-charging-at-electrify-america-station/amp/
>  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA

[Peter Eckhoff via EV]

I found this link yesterday (Sandy Munro's channel):
https://youtu.be/tDp9PhPJhUI

It shows what can happen with a Level 2 installation and voices
concerns for the need for better standards of home installations of
EVSEs.  The insides of a junction box literally melted.  Followed by a
show and tell and then discussions on products and the call for safety
standards and a suggestion on wiring a breaker panel.

Not being an electrician or EE, I thought this is a place to maybe
make us aware of the situation and thoughts of what we can do about
it.


On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 10:24 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:
>
> https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/ford-f-150-lighting-evidently-bricked-while-charging-at-electrify-america-station/amp/
>  Lawrence Rhodes
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[EVDL] Loud boom.! Ford F150 bricked at Electrify AMERICA

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/ford-f-150-lighting-evidently-bricked-while-charging-at-electrify-america-station/amp/
 Lawrence Rhodes 
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