Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Hi Mike, I think you are absolutely correct. There are a LOT of people and companies heavily invested in the V2V communication, specifically for the use cases you describe below. 802.11p (aka DSRC) is an international standard working towards this. Naturally, since this is a standard, it is going quite slowly (in silicon valley terms, I think it would be glacial). However, it would be shortsighted to not see this as an opportunity to get in front of this wave, rather than paddle really hard to catch up. I'm following this from the EV charging side (wireless EV charging to be more precise), and the V2V is starting to take off. I believe TestFests for this will take place next year, but there are no solid plans yet. As for me, I would love to have a SDC. Especially on the days when I'm tired, or cranky, or just want to relax on the way home. There will be times when I would want to drive, but for the most part, the commute is not a time when I would want to play. Cheers, Peter On 4/8/15 11:56 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote: I think the discussion on self driving cars here is very short sighted. I think it will be the most exciting development in personal transportation over the next 20 years. I think the situation will develop like this: Initially, the cars will just emulate humans that are good drivers. They will be polite, paying attention, following the rules, and have faster reactions than humans. They will slow down when traffic slows, they will stop at stop signs, etc. Since they are paying attention all the time, that automatically puts them in the top 50% of drivers. Their biggest challenge will be dodging the crazy humans around them. During this time, they will also have to figure out where the road is, when completely covered with snow. That's a challenge for humans sometimes. As the number of self driving cars increases, their environment will become more predictable. Eventually, there will be a back channel wireless communication system that lets the cars contact the other vehicles in the area. That is when things get really interesting. If a car doesn't answer back to inquiries, it must be human driven and the cars will leave it a larger margin of space for unpredictable actions, and follow human driving rules. If all cars are self driving, they can operate by different rules. For example: - On a green light, all cars rollout together. No need to wait for the car ahead. Each car knows when they will all roll. - Approaching a 4 way stop, the cars negotiate crossing order ahead of time and go through without stopping. - Merging from 3 lanes down to 2 can be done efficiently, without all the backups, delays and jockeying that happens now. - Cars up ahead on the road can warn following cars that a deer has been spotted. That allows them to start adjusting before their sensors detect it. I am sure this is just scratching the surface. Imagine how things could change when every car is in contact with the others, and can count on full cooperation to do as expected. Mike On April 6, 2015 12:09:33 PM MDT, Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
You mean Diebold? Et cetera, et cetera ... Folks, please check your politics at the door. If you're going to start flame wars, at least start them over EVs, not politics. Thanks. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
To bring this thread more or less back on topic, I suppose self-driving cars might have one intriguing benefit. When they know the exact route and conditions - as they probably would have to - they might have a better chance at predicting whether you have enough charge in your EV to get there, don't you think? But overall, I remain skeptical. Unless we somehow create a totally closed system, excluding all human-operated vehicles, humans, and stray animals from the highway system, its chaos and unpredictability will be a dire strain on any computing system. Heck, it is for humans, and our brains are pretty sophisticated computers. So, they will inevitably fail - perhaps often. Humans barely accept fallibility from other humans, let alone machines that they pay for. They also have this propensity for insisting that when something goes wrong, SOMEONE MUST PAY. Besides, we've had cars without drivers for CENTURIES. Europeans use them a lot more than we do. They run on rails, sometimes above ground and sometimes below. They're pulled by locomotives, most of them ELECTRIC. Automated rail is a mostly closed and highly controllable system. That's where fully driverless transportation is practical, with a low accident rate. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Now that's funny. I don't care who you are. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 7:02 PM, Lawrence Winiarski lawrence_winiar...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe this will work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yE3_Vw144 From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections.If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150407/8b5f1ae7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I've installed an arduino based autopilot on my solar boat last year and it's been an interesting addition. It's not that smart despite having an internal gyroscope, GPS, compass but I do like it, it will maintain a course even if there is a weight shift or wind change that would normally sway the boat off course. One other great benefit is hands freed up to throw a hook and line. I also use it occasionally to follow me in my other boats such as when kayaking - makes a great pit stop when you want to get out. One interesting note around this technology especially with cars is stereo systems- I had to mount the autopilot as far away as possible from the speakers as the magnetic and the pumping of them would throw the autopilot off big time. Those who put multi- thousand watt systems in their cars or drive close to one of these ghetto boxes on wheels will render their autopilots into a circling nervous driver :-) I'm sure the technology will learn to overcome these issues but something to consider. On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:26 AM, Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Now that's funny. I don't care who you are. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 7:02 PM, Lawrence Winiarski lawrence_winiar...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe this will work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yE3_Vw144 From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections.If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150407/8b5f1ae7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150407/a3af5aee/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit Even a robotic taxi? For example, in a city you've flown to? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/f9ab3d6e/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] self driving cars
The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 2013 there were 32,719 fatalities on US roads in 2013. One wonders how many of them could have been prevented if distracted driving was eliminated as a cause. Yes I think even if we don’t get to full self driving in the near future the ability of cars to sense your surroundings and avoid tailgating and the associated rear enders, obstructed vision lane changes and hitting pedestrians who either you don’t notice or they absentmindedly step into traffic. If we get to ‘you can steer’ but you can’t tailgate, can’t run red lights, can’t change lanes with insufficient room etc. the roads will be a lot safer. On another note, as my electric car gives me lots of statistics; one that pop into my head is that my average daily commute speed is about 20mph. Can you imagine a day when self driving cars talked to each other and talked to smart interactions. I might be able to raise my average speed to 25mph and avoid the stress of lane weaving and rushing light and honking at slow drivers :-) Lawrence On Apr 6, 2015, at 1:16 PM, SLPinfo.org via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Clearly the technology needs work, but part of me welcomes them. But I've never been in love with driving. I just want to get to my destination in one piece. As my own senses and reflexes fade with age and having just taken the keys away from an elderly parent who (thankfully) didn't kill anyone in a recent accident, I can see a big portion of the population welcoming the possibility of increased safety on the roads. Peter Flipsen Jr Hillsboro, OR On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:32 PM, damon henry via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: All it will take for most people to move over to self driving cars is $5 a month off their insurance :) damon Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:07:42 + To: electricb...@embarqmail.com; ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars From: ev@lists.evdl.org Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/2554e844/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/348ab7c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but there's a world of difference between electoral politics and transportation. Do you think people who take taxis or use public transit don't have any interest in voting? If you're taking a taxi or a bus, why would you care if the driver is human or robotic? Would you be okay having a chauffeur drive you in your own car? If so, would you care if the chauffeur is human or robotic? b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d07967b1/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Clearly the technology needs work, but part of me welcomes them. But I've never been in love with driving. I just want to get to my destination in one piece. As my own senses and reflexes fade with age and having just taken the keys away from an elderly parent who (thankfully) didn't kill anyone in a recent accident, I can see a big portion of the population welcoming the possibility of increased safety on the roads. Peter Flipsen Jr Hillsboro, OR On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:32 PM, damon henry via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: All it will take for most people to move over to self driving cars is $5 a month off their insurance :) damon Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:07:42 + To: electricb...@embarqmail.com; ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars From: ev@lists.evdl.org Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/2554e844/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/348ab7c7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I think Harbor Freight just announced that their new self driving kit's will be available next summer for $299.95 (not counting the 20% off coupons). It comes with 2 chicago-electric servo's and a hi-tech camera. On top of all that, it comes with a genuine lifetime warranty. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/cfb488d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Maybe this will work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8yE3_Vw144 From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150407/e9917f19/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] self driving cars
Let me be frank, even if I was given a self driving car, I would take it to the shooting range and we would have a new target. I want nothing to do with any of that crap. Even if my insurance was free, or they payed me to drive one,,well maybe one way to the shooting range . Thank God there are still 74 Lincoln mk4s around , or 64 caddy converts.. Real cars not some teckno crap that the auto industry has come to. Im old and at my age I can say that LOLOL -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/2a063aee/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I had not posted much about self-driving or autonomous plugin news-items when compared to the huge amount of news items that are saturated with pieces about them (that I have-to wade through). I do not plan to blast the evdl with these, but it points out that for those few that were in denial about this auto tech happening in their life-time, are now going to have to live with them around. Automakers are copying each others efforts (like a Keeping up with the Joneses management style) banking that the public will demand this ability in all vehicles. IMO I do not think anyone has to shoot the Aton-car or themselves, as in a movie of the future, cars with auto-drive, also had a manual-drive mode: http://pop-verse.com/2013/08/16/10-things-the-film-demolition-man-predicted/ 3) Self-driving Cars Almost all the cars in the film ... are self-driving. With Google leading the charge on self-driving cars the technology is already here. Google’s latest cars have driven over 300,000 miles without an incident. It won’t be long until they are a common sight on our roads and you saw it on Demolition Man first! For those that 'are' interested in this auto-tech: Searching for electric self driving cars found links to explore: http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2015/04/06/look-ma-no-hands-self-driving-vehicles-and-insuran Look, Ma! No hands: Self-driving vehicles and insurance PropertyCasualty360-1 hour ago Attendees sit in the self-driving Mercedes-Benz F 015 concept car at the Mercedes-Benz booth at the International CES Tuesday, Jan. 6, 2015, in Las Vegas. http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2015/04/06/the-evolving-automotive-ecosystem/ The Evolving Automotive Ecosystem Wall Street Journal (blog)-1 hour ago Self-driving cars have commanded our attention in the last few years. ... of the self-driving car, and to improve the range and battery costs of the electric car. Fortune http://seekingalpha.com/article/3052956-tesla-shattering-the-lack-of-demand-myth Tesla: Shattering The Lack Of Demand Myth (TSLA) Seeking Alpha-4 hours ago But aren't other automakers also developing self-driving cars? ... to forge ahead of the pack, partly by virtue of the car being electric powered, and partly by virtue ... https://www.techinasia.com/american-gave-scholarship-launch-car-rental-app/ This American gave up his scholarship in Cambridge to launch a car ... Tech in Asia-10 hours ago Back's two-year-old startup was the first company to receive a self-drive car ... SUVs like Mahindra Scorpio, and even electric cars like the Mahindra Reva E2O. http://www.luxurydaily.com/top-5-brand-moment-from-last-week-2/ Top 5 brand moments from last week Luxury Daily-15 hours ago ... drives attention to Audi's advances in technology for its self-driving car (see story). ... U.S. electric automaker Tesla Motors is supporting ice cream maker Ben ... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/05/ssangyong-xav-concept-seoul-official/ SsangYong reveals XAV concept in Seoul Autoblog (blog)-Apr 5, 2015 In addition, the self-driving cars currently in development and various mass-produced models, such as the Chairman W, Korando Series, Rexton, and Tivoli, are ... http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/04/05/disruptive-innovation-3-ways-technology-is-changin.aspx Disruptive Innovation: 3 Ways Technology Is Changing How You ... Motley Fool-Apr 5, 2015 For example, self driving cars on highways and interstates could drive much ... 100 years of failing to compete with petro-powered cars, electric vehicles such as ... http://www.wired.com/2015/04/delphi-autonomous-car-cross-country/ This Is Big: A Robo-Car Just Drove Across the Country Wired-Apr 3, 2015 The car did 99 percent of the driving on its own, yielding to the carbon-based life ... may be more advanced than anyone: The tech giant says its self-driving cars ... from the first electric starter (1911), to the first in-dash car radio (1936), to the ... http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/80459/20150404/apple-project-titan.htm Apple Project Titan: Self-Driving Electric Car Excites Car Company ... KDramaStars-Apr 4, 2015 Several rumors have been circulating online that Apple is ready to launch its first car, Project Titan, by 2020. Within five years, the tech giant will be ready to go ... http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2015/04/02/tech-race-propels-carmakers/70871588/ Tech race propels carmakers The Detroit News-Apr 2, 2015 Others are less concerned, but think the perceived threat will hasten automakers' efforts into self-driving technology and electric cars. Apple Inc. wasn't at the ... A search for electric autonomous cars also gave: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150406/OEM02/304069991/aston-martins-palmer-to-address-congress Aston Martin's Palmer to address congress Automotive News-18 hours ago Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer, who took over at the luxury sports car maker in ... Leaf electric car, the NV200 New York City taxi and the push for autonomous ...
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
You mean these guys? Electronic Voting | | | | | | | | | | | Electronic Voting | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | From: Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/580ef9ea/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? Depends on whether the car had alcohol in it's fuel beyond the legal limit whether it goes to jail or not. Of course for EV's the car can be charged with assault and battery -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/7d07e10d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? I wouldn't want to be in a self-driving car because when (not if) something goes wrong, every personal injury lawyer in the country will be filing lawsuits, against anyone and everyone even remotely involved. Lee's quite right of course. Everyone is speculating on what this is now, what it will evolve into, and generally thinking in broad strokes. But it's the details that will bite hard. Simple sense-and-response control would be just begging for a tragic outcome. And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. There will be wrong responses, some tragic. Also, if you cede too much control to the system that means you have little control when some glitch becomes a seriously FUBAR situation. Making this work really well would require a massive software validation effort that few companies will do properly. (They frequently have a hard time implementing CANBUS properly.) This is all a perfect example of the four wheel drive analogy - four wheel drive can allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But if it is implemented or used improperly, it will only get you deeper into trouble than you might otherwise have been in. Sadly, there will be lawyers that specialize in these cases, and they will make lots of money. There's a far stronger case to be made for using tech in ways where we know it works - sensing what is difficult for humans to perceive, and rapid response. I would welcome an infra-red HUD that would allow me to see in the dark or through fog, dust and blizzards. Or an audible warning that closure rate to the vehicle ahead is too fast. Maybe even automatic braking in that case, but I'd have to try it first. An audible warning that you're about to collide with someone in your blind spot would be good, but a steering correction would NOT be OK. Like if I'm purposely changing lanes into someone because that collision is the lesser of two evils. That's a decision I want to make myself. I'm all for enhancements. But the decisions are mine. AI is simply not up to the task yet. The real test is not when you can show what amazing things a self driving car can do - it's when you throw situations at it trying to make it do the wrong thing and you can't. No one wants to show those test yet, but those are the ones that matter. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d52546d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? I wouldn't want to be in a self-driving car because when (not if) something goes wrong, every personal injury lawyer in the country will be filing lawsuits, against anyone and everyone even remotely involved. -- Sometimes when you innovate, you make mistakes. It is best to admit them quickly and get on with improving your other innovations. (Steve Jobs) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
You mean Diebold? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 6, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Yeah, Maybe these same people would accept some sort of artificial intelligence program which would analyse their facebook postingsand social media and automatically vote for them in elections. If they will trust their lives going 70 mph to some computer algorithm by some nameless programmers who work for some corporation (who can't even make a web browser that doesn't fail), why wouldn't they trust a corporation to automatically vote for them? After all...what could go wrong? Am I missing something? From: Electric Blue auto convertions via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, April 6, 2015 11:09 AM Subject: [EVDL] self driving cars The day Im forced to get into a self driving car is when I take my shot gun and blow it away . the very thought if a SDC makes me vomit -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/c4b4c2e5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/bfa1b9f5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
All really good points, Chris. I, too, feel more comfortable with the idea of a self driving car where I can still take control if I need to. It's kind of like autopilot in an airplane. It works as programmed but you still have the yoke and other controls. In fact, it's designed so that you can override it with force - it makes the yoke stiff but you can still out muscle it. Similar for your other ideas - various audible or visual warnings for approaching danger - that's kind of like a stall warning or nav aids in a plane. The airplane systems warn but the pilot gets to make a decision on the best maneuver. On the other hand, having autopilot in a plane can work very safely since it is unlikely the plane has to respond to anything suddenly. On the road, though, you could be lulled into complacency and not be ready to take the wheel and react when an emergency occurs or when the system is making a bad decision. So, maybe, having a self driving car with human override isn't any better than a fully self driving car. I don't know. Anyway, if you put a bunch of self driving cars in a demolition derby, will they be able to hit each other? Peri -- Original Message -- From: Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 06-Apr-15 5:08:03 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] self driving cars On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 6:18 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Here's the elephant in the room that I haven't seen addressed: When a self-driving car is involved in a fatal accident, who pays? Who goes to jail? I wouldn't want to be in a self-driving car because when (not if) something goes wrong, every personal injury lawyer in the country will be filing lawsuits, against anyone and everyone even remotely involved. Lee's quite right of course. Everyone is speculating on what this is now, what it will evolve into, and generally thinking in broad strokes. But it's the details that will bite hard. Simple sense-and-response control would be just begging for a tragic outcome. And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. There will be wrong responses, some tragic. Also, if you cede too much control to the system that means you have little control when some glitch becomes a seriously FUBAR situation. Making this work really well would require a massive software validation effort that few companies will do properly. (They frequently have a hard time implementing CANBUS properly.) This is all a perfect example of the four wheel drive analogy - four wheel drive can allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But if it is implemented or used improperly, it will only get you deeper into trouble than you might otherwise have been in. Sadly, there will be lawyers that specialize in these cases, and they will make lots of money. There's a far stronger case to be made for using tech in ways where we know it works - sensing what is difficult for humans to perceive, and rapid response. I would welcome an infra-red HUD that would allow me to see in the dark or through fog, dust and blizzards. Or an audible warning that closure rate to the vehicle ahead is too fast. Maybe even automatic braking in that case, but I'd have to try it first. An audible warning that you're about to collide with someone in your blind spot would be good, but a steering correction would NOT be OK. Like if I'm purposely changing lanes into someone because that collision is the lesser of two evils. That's a decision I want to make myself. I'm all for enhancements. But the decisions are mine. AI is simply not up to the task yet. The real test is not when you can show what amazing things a self driving car can do - it's when you throw situations at it trying to make it do the wrong thing and you can't. No one wants to show those test yet, but those are the ones that matter. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d52546d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
I have driven to many millions of miles to want to drive a single one more. But in this backwards country mass transit is very low priority. As soon as a self driving car is low enough in cost to suit my frugal nature I will have one. I can tell you my 83, and 82 year old parents would be all over DSC if it were available. And frankly, you should be grateful if the did. But they have to get out there in the mix because there is not alternative that makes sense to them. The writing is on the wall. SNIP -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/0ec7173f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. Your objections are a classic example of making the perfect the enemy of the good. In order to improve traffic safety, self-driving cars don't have to be perfect; they only have to be better than the average human. And they're already there, especially when you consider that the average human is too-often tired, distracted, drunk, or whatever. Even if everybody in the car is drunk, asleep, texting, legally blind, under the age of ten, or all of the above...the car is still going to drive itself more safely than most humans will when taking the driving test from the DMV. Again, it won't be perfect. It'll just be far, far superior to humans. As to who'll pay when self-driving cars crash...I'm sure it'll be the insurance companies. They'll be quite thrilled with them, as they'll be able to give significant discounts on insurance plans and simultaneously make insane profits because the'll be paying out far less with self-driving cars than with humans. That is, their expenses will drop to a negligible fraction of what they are today even as their income drops not even as much as the advertising lingo of up to 15%! In math...today you might pay them $100 / period and cost them, on average over all drivers, $50. You get a self-driving car, and you now pay them $85...but now you only cost them $5 at most. They've more than doubled their profits. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/9c5592bb/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com wrote: On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: In order to improve traffic safety, self-driving cars don't have to be perfect; they only have to be better than the average human. I more or less agree with what you're saying - as long as there is still a choice. There are lots of jokes about how everybody thinks they're a highly-skilled driver. But in any population there will be some who are phenomenally more competent than average, and others who at their best are more dangerous behind the wheel than an angry drunk with a gun. Those on the competent side will not take kindly to being stripped of the benefits of their skill and lumped in with the least common denominators. How acceptable this numbers game is depends on where you are on the curve. Maybe this tech will advance to the point where few humans could do better. When that can be demonstrated I'll be a believer. I'm betting this will be one of those technologies that will improve in part as a result lessons learned from tragic outcomes. Many will benefit. A few will pay. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/1bb82946/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
Very well put Chris. I hope we don't beat this to death as it is somewhat OT. I'll go out on a limb - you will not see full blown use of self driving vehicles any time soon. 10 years maybe, probably more like 25. You heard it here, LOL Al Lee's quite right of course. Everyone is speculating on what this is now, what it will evolve into, and generally thinking in broad strokes. But it's the details that will bite hard. Simple sense-and-response control would be just begging for a tragic outcome. And there is no AI system sufficiently advanced to make the right decision in every case. There will be wrong responses, some tragic. Also, if you cede too much control to the system that means you have little control when some glitch becomes a seriously FUBAR situation. Making this work really well would require a massive software validation effort that few companies will do properly. (They frequently have a hard time implementing CANBUS properly.) This is all a perfect example of the four wheel drive analogy - four wheel drive can allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But if it is implemented or used improperly, it will only get you deeper into trouble than you might otherwise have been in. Sadly, there will be lawyers that specialize in these cases, and they will make lots of money. There's a far stronger case to be made for using tech in ways where we know it works - sensing what is difficult for humans to perceive, and rapid response. I would welcome an infra-red HUD that would allow me to see in the dark or through fog, dust and blizzards. Or an audible warning that closure rate to the vehicle ahead is too fast. Maybe even automatic braking in that case, but I'd have to try it first. An audible warning that you're about to collide with someone in your blind spot would be good, but a steering correction would NOT be OK. Like if I'm purposely changing lanes into someone because that collision is the lesser of two evils. That's a decision I want to make myself. I'm all for enhancements. But the decisions are mine. AI is simply not up to the task yet. The real test is not when you can show what amazing things a self driving car can do - it's when you throw situations at it trying to make it do the wrong thing and you can't. No one wants to show those test yet, but those are the ones that matter. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/d52546d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] self driving cars
On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I more or less agree with what you're saying - as long as there is still a choice. To be clear: I am most emphatically _*NOT*_ suggesting that all vehicles, or even all new vehicles be roboticized. I'm just suggesting that there're an awful lot of people who do or should want robot cars and that everybody on the road will benefit from such automation. And if you think that there's really a chance that non-robotic cars will be banned...well, just look at guns for comparison. That industry is a tiny pittance compared to the automotive industry, and _far_ more people drive and own cars than own guns. Whatever your stand on gun rights...it should be obvious that any attempts to ban non-robotic cars would fail far more spectacularly than recent attempts to ban guns. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150406/ed290892/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
