Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge
On 25 Feb 2019 at 16:54, Len Moskowitz via EV wrote: > Trim off everything "?" and everything after it: Excellent! Thank you for the help. Three thousand farads at 2.7 volts! Except that it's 2.7 volts for only a fraction of a second. :-( I think that super/ultra caps have been used in experimental liquid fuel only quasi-hybrids. IIRC EVDLer Jeff Major was involved with at least one such trial, and he might have some comments if he's tuned in. Solectria also used supercaps experimentally as current levelers in EVs, in an effort to get more range out of lead batteries. They worked, but the rapid voltage fall of capacitors meant they needed a DC:DC converter, and its (in)efficiency was a problem. Also, the range improvement was very dependent on how the vehicle was driven. http://www.evdl.org/docs/supercap_leveler.pdf David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge
Trim off everything "?" and everything after it: https://uk.farnell.com/cornell-dubilier/cdlc302p2r7lr/ultracapacitor3000f2-7v0 -00026/dp/2113245 Len Moskowitz - On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 04:19 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 25 Feb 2019 at 19:59, Paul Compton via EV wrote: https://uk.farnell.com/cornell-dubilier/cdlc302p2r7lr/ultracapacitor3000f2-7v0 -00026/dp/2113245?pf=110449709=PB3yvz0V97AaURYuqm4eafN2ZyPF9iml7r7lB73M B86%2Fx%2BfBO7r66S6Hv%2Bm%2FSEP4fVg8mqr%2Fz6GvzLwg7Uq%2FbdzatR5QTfC%2F993%2FMw wq9UqP1h8WlDqIRRYqBq8TrWOhGmtZ5P6sxXyrTmzJ6iTEw9aZr%2FTRgKvIf93tg96tOxa0jNm8AJ lagHG4rDVAfwvzwGjfFUUDd5Xl5fXylHL%2FCuFPxMw96Tb%2BNYnB58F%2B1ZdQaNsge14noA2I8M tvZUqvYpivPFir5NHBv4gBwz6XwztBR6pRxSSB2YLu5P9kEL94UaLG9fRctJbWcqDQsNS0oAWHM15S 8%2F49Wf8%2BHAT%2BdD8PwGkriJrm8WJmpMHu5dWSV5cJYccW1%2BMIzbU5gutB2QMZ%2FlTFduIn egTsSOB61jcy06hybhnj3LyBEWEn86CaKEOVrw%2BWQJGi5VJnBcBGNJrkeO3B8urlziCTcgqAkBdR yqsz2%2FMfiiP3zcG2qQ1MOK%2BNIg7G9cE2wdck4mYBuDGHsyMpZ7E81c%2FAk%2B7u76AYu2C1Un l%2BjCjLO6mcHt11%2BiSja2NirYJDBnXI0BPcKx6ECSIOoxob5Ux9P5io3ym4tslO2mArKxCLISLG gEKAuQnsjyB4tt%2FjDZUcAn9ms%2F4G9Cr61ZjVFtpqZcsVdRHfHo8g7YoPk2C01SsuS0Nu4nPj13 zX7nQWpwxbX%2B10wQQS5pwb1Y1PZn7OoWpa4k5XpXf5PN0Z%2F8AZdeRUo4RsVGnlWZoBdDrPkWYI irK8m33pweipQW0k73NWn%2FsiLK8Msc8%2FLh5uZmc9bHIi3czWpRC2DntwYB z%2FO%2FFaoFL0sZCBYRpm2RRZb2cPG88JU08Fo%2B620hqtE%2BJAcwC6FJv4ERhJY4lEBgB00b% 2BbWDKummIlMKtJ5JEAjJgsWiNM6o129GgMNLHtZ8kIFHEzg5algFmSYnM59o0BvXdqWEnRJXPVT7 VpbJ3UiV%2BLgY2Yb1BeBkY8Uwoo4%2F6cum8XqjMoTLAm4%2B2z%2FRu2ALFaOtwfdeFpL7KHY80 Ji8AeXE7jLL1HwSL0byCZ18HxkTLywW4I%2BXNOfX8BKRc%2FICSJ3lJNGPfV5qP4xJUvlDkNNRMW 7Xuft2hxOJUGsv0%2B3%2BJN5gDWqHQJYf0oTyBIv3arBUG9cJp6ZzUJLTmOs4fmbgEAYbN6WnlDM JfemN4fMvOZ2cbAf42Lp8hdF%2FUc9dRb6vJGTRjbl4T%2BUcwxmUMti%2BKKtJSpCM%2B9tPVlwB G74hd0Eoc3Zta65J2enq0sCMke%2BeWsd9FpBUS7RWAvvkNCF2JjzD21gisBZKuZIpmJNs3uYIycp RninBO3p3CeGuLuyDW%2BvGI5gySiiR7LmM6Tqc7ajQPRY7pb7n3UKaTJ4EtfVGAMLfZDAac2mxjQ 5G1gxUHpLO2YkGi%2Ffj02xyMKSsJxxoyV%2FyBVXw9ucsf%2BgIiwfN13Vdwp%2BJi5YURr76dUd %2BaMaFdKqPysCkA51aTdGlxoAf23DHyM05fCwyQ0L2dXb0yrhKmffugIyAWPZ9gp6EW%2Fx4UMy7 VcJOkQbWEtWtoyfw%3D%3D=https%3Aen-GB%2FElement14_United_Kingdom%2Fc%2Fp assive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Fsupercap-ultracap-double-layer-capacitors What the Sam Hill is THAT? It would be interesting to see the examples cited, but I don't have enough years of life left that I'm willing to invest the amount of my time I'd need to re-assemble that hideous url and find the page. EV folks share links, just as you tried to do here. That's their nature. Cornell Dubilier's broken website effectively makes link sharing impossible. I sure hope their engineers and chemists are more competent than their web designers. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge
On 25 Feb 2019 at 19:59, Paul Compton via EV wrote: > https://uk.farnell.com/cornell-dubilier/cdlc302p2r7lr/ultracapacitor3000f2-7v0 > -00026/dp/2113245?pf=110449709=PB3yvz0V97AaURYuqm4eafN2ZyPF9iml7r7lB73M > B86%2Fx%2BfBO7r66S6Hv%2Bm%2FSEP4fVg8mqr%2Fz6GvzLwg7Uq%2FbdzatR5QTfC%2F993%2FMw > wq9UqP1h8WlDqIRRYqBq8TrWOhGmtZ5P6sxXyrTmzJ6iTEw9aZr%2FTRgKvIf93tg96tOxa0jNm8AJ > lagHG4rDVAfwvzwGjfFUUDd5Xl5fXylHL%2FCuFPxMw96Tb%2BNYnB58F%2B1ZdQaNsge14noA2I8M > tvZUqvYpivPFir5NHBv4gBwz6XwztBR6pRxSSB2YLu5P9kEL94UaLG9fRctJbWcqDQsNS0oAWHM15S > 8%2F49Wf8%2BHAT%2BdD8PwGkriJrm8WJmpMHu5dWSV5cJYccW1%2BMIzbU5gutB2QMZ%2FlTFduIn > egTsSOB61jcy06hybhnj3LyBEWEn86CaKEOVrw%2BWQJGi5VJnBcBGNJrkeO3B8urlziCTcgqAkBdR > yqsz2%2FMfiiP3zcG2qQ1MOK%2BNIg7G9cE2wdck4mYBuDGHsyMpZ7E81c%2FAk%2B7u76AYu2C1Un > l%2BjCjLO6mcHt11%2BiSja2NirYJDBnXI0BPcKx6ECSIOoxob5Ux9P5io3ym4tslO2mArKxCLISLG > gEKAuQnsjyB4tt%2FjDZUcAn9ms%2F4G9Cr61ZjVFtpqZcsVdRHfHo8g7YoPk2C01SsuS0Nu4nPj13 > zX7nQWpwxbX%2B10wQQS5pwb1Y1PZn7OoWpa4k5XpXf5PN0Z%2F8AZdeRUo4RsVGnlWZoBdDrPkWYI > irK8m33pweipQW0k73NWn%2FsiLK8Msc8%2FLh5uZmc9bHIi3czWpRC2DntwYB > z%2FO%2FFaoFL0sZCBYRpm2RRZb2cPG88JU08Fo%2B620hqtE%2BJAcwC6FJv4ERhJY4lEBgB00b% > 2BbWDKummIlMKtJ5JEAjJgsWiNM6o129GgMNLHtZ8kIFHEzg5algFmSYnM59o0BvXdqWEnRJXPVT7 > VpbJ3UiV%2BLgY2Yb1BeBkY8Uwoo4%2F6cum8XqjMoTLAm4%2B2z%2FRu2ALFaOtwfdeFpL7KHY80 > Ji8AeXE7jLL1HwSL0byCZ18HxkTLywW4I%2BXNOfX8BKRc%2FICSJ3lJNGPfV5qP4xJUvlDkNNRMW > 7Xuft2hxOJUGsv0%2B3%2BJN5gDWqHQJYf0oTyBIv3arBUG9cJp6ZzUJLTmOs4fmbgEAYbN6WnlDM > JfemN4fMvOZ2cbAf42Lp8hdF%2FUc9dRb6vJGTRjbl4T%2BUcwxmUMti%2BKKtJSpCM%2B9tPVlwB > G74hd0Eoc3Zta65J2enq0sCMke%2BeWsd9FpBUS7RWAvvkNCF2JjzD21gisBZKuZIpmJNs3uYIycp > RninBO3p3CeGuLuyDW%2BvGI5gySiiR7LmM6Tqc7ajQPRY7pb7n3UKaTJ4EtfVGAMLfZDAac2mxjQ > 5G1gxUHpLO2YkGi%2Ffj02xyMKSsJxxoyV%2FyBVXw9ucsf%2BgIiwfN13Vdwp%2BJi5YURr76dUd > %2BaMaFdKqPysCkA51aTdGlxoAf23DHyM05fCwyQ0L2dXb0yrhKmffugIyAWPZ9gp6EW%2Fx4UMy7 > VcJOkQbWEtWtoyfw%3D%3D=https%3Aen-GB%2FElement14_United_Kingdom%2Fc%2Fp > assive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Fsupercap-ultracap-double-layer-capacitors What the Sam Hill is THAT? It would be interesting to see the examples cited, but I don't have enough years of life left that I'm willing to invest the amount of my time I'd need to re-assemble that hideous url and find the page. EV folks share links, just as you tried to do here. That's their nature. Cornell Dubilier's broken website effectively makes link sharing impossible. I sure hope their engineers and chemists are more competent than their web designers. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge
On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 3:00 PM Paul Compton via EV wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 04:40, Jan Steinman via EV wrote: > > > Supercaps are currently 1-10 farads or so. A farad can supply an amp for a > > second. > > I think you might be a little out of touch on Supercaps. > > I've had a sample Maxwell PC223 8 Farad cap on the shelf for nearly 30 years. > > They've been into the multi 1000F range for years. > Yes, but the bigger issue is that they unfortunately drop in capacitance as you put them in series. So, you either parallel a whole bunch of them and try to figure out a way to go from 2.5v at thousands of amps up to some useful voltage or you put them in series and watch as the capacitance plummets. I don't really know how they plan to get around this aspect of capacitors. They just aren't that great in series but you need high voltage for a car. It wouldn't be so bad if super caps weren't almost exclusively 2.5 to 2.9v rated. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge
On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 04:40, Jan Steinman via EV wrote: > Supercaps are currently 1-10 farads or so. A farad can supply an amp for a > second. I think you might be a little out of touch on Supercaps. I've had a sample Maxwell PC223 8 Farad cap on the shelf for nearly 30 years. They've been into the multi 1000F range for years. https://uk.farnell.com/cornell-dubilier/cdlc302p2r7lr/ultracapacitor3000f2-7v0-00026/dp/2113245?pf=110449709=PB3yvz0V97AaURYuqm4eafN2ZyPF9iml7r7lB73MB86%2Fx%2BfBO7r66S6Hv%2Bm%2FSEP4fVg8mqr%2Fz6GvzLwg7Uq%2FbdzatR5QTfC%2F993%2FMwwq9UqP1h8WlDqIRRYqBq8TrWOhGmtZ5P6sxXyrTmzJ6iTEw9aZr%2FTRgKvIf93tg96tOxa0jNm8AJlagHG4rDVAfwvzwGjfFUUDd5Xl5fXylHL%2FCuFPxMw96Tb%2BNYnB58F%2B1ZdQaNsge14noA2I8MtvZUqvYpivPFir5NHBv4gBwz6XwztBR6pRxSSB2YLu5P9kEL94UaLG9fRctJbWcqDQsNS0oAWHM15S8%2F49Wf8%2BHAT%2BdD8PwGkriJrm8WJmpMHu5dWSV5cJYccW1%2BMIzbU5gutB2QMZ%2FlTFduInegTsSOB61jcy06hybhnj3LyBEWEn86CaKEOVrw%2BWQJGi5VJnBcBGNJrkeO3B8urlziCTcgqAkBdRyqsz2%2FMfiiP3zcG2qQ1MOK%2BNIg7G9cE2wdck4mYBuDGHsyMpZ7E81c%2FAk%2B7u76AYu2C1Unl%2BjCjLO6mcHt11%2BiSja2NirYJDBnXI0BPcKx6ECSIOoxob5Ux9P5io3ym4tslO2mArKxCLISLGgEKAuQnsjyB4tt%2FjDZUcAn9ms%2F4G9Cr61ZjVFtpqZcsVdRHfHo8g7YoPk2C01SsuS0Nu4nPj13zX7nQWpwxbX%2B10wQQS5pwb1Y1PZn7OoWpa4k5XpXf5PN0Z%2F8AZdeRUo4RsVGnlWZoBdDrPkWYIirK8m33pweipQW0k73NWn%2FsiLK8Msc8%2FLh5uZmc9bHIi3czWpRC2DntwYB z%2FO%2FFaoFL0sZCBYRpm2RRZb2cPG88JU08Fo%2B620hqtE%2BJAcwC6FJv4ERhJY4lEBgB00b%2BbWDKummIlMKtJ5JEAjJgsWiNM6o129GgMNLHtZ8kIFHEzg5algFmSYnM59o0BvXdqWEnRJXPVT7VpbJ3UiV%2BLgY2Yb1BeBkY8Uwoo4%2F6cum8XqjMoTLAm4%2B2z%2FRu2ALFaOtwfdeFpL7KHY80Ji8AeXE7jLL1HwSL0byCZ18HxkTLywW4I%2BXNOfX8BKRc%2FICSJ3lJNGPfV5qP4xJUvlDkNNRMW7Xuft2hxOJUGsv0%2B3%2BJN5gDWqHQJYf0oTyBIv3arBUG9cJp6ZzUJLTmOs4fmbgEAYbN6WnlDMJfemN4fMvOZ2cbAf42Lp8hdF%2FUc9dRb6vJGTRjbl4T%2BUcwxmUMti%2BKKtJSpCM%2B9tPVlwBG74hd0Eoc3Zta65J2enq0sCMke%2BeWsd9FpBUS7RWAvvkNCF2JjzD21gisBZKuZIpmJNs3uYIycpRninBO3p3CeGuLuyDW%2BvGI5gySiiR7LmM6Tqc7ajQPRY7pb7n3UKaTJ4EtfVGAMLfZDAac2mxjQ5G1gxUHpLO2YkGi%2Ffj02xyMKSsJxxoyV%2FyBVXw9ucsf%2BgIiwfN13Vdwp%2BJi5YURr76dUd%2BaMaFdKqPysCkA51aTdGlxoAf23DHyM05fCwyQ0L2dXb0yrhKmffugIyAWPZ9gp6EW%2Fx4UMy7VcJOkQbWEtWtoyfw%3D%3D=https%3Aen-GB%2FElement14_United_Kingdom%2Fc%2Fpassive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Fsupercap-ultracap-double-layer-capacitors -- Paul Compton www.morini-mania.co.uk www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge
> From: "Peri Hartman" > > Whether it will be possible to > make a high density supercap is yet to be seen. Supercaps are currently 1-10 farads or so. A farad can supply an amp for a second. The 21700 lithium cell being produced by Tesla can pump an amp for 18,000 seconds. So yea, there's a density problem. :-) Jan ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge (v)
I think what the article glossed over is that supercaps have poor energy density. They have excellent power, however, and the author might have mixed up the terms, I don't remember. Whether it will be possible to make a high density supercap is yet to be seen. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Alan Arrison via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "Alan Arrison" Sent: 22-Feb-19 6:17:31 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge (v) Could Ultracapacitors Replace Batteries In Future Electric Vehicles? The answer is no, no matter how much hype there is. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge (v)
Could Ultracapacitors Replace Batteries In Future Electric Vehicles? The answer is no, no matter how much hype there is. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
