Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[Thos True via EV]

We used waterbed heaters under the packs in the Silver Bullet without any
issues for more than 4 years, setting 8 consecutive records.
Found them to be very durable. Not sure that I would place the same amount
of faith in a electric blanket, as the conductors are not very well
protected under the fabric.
As for running the heater from batteries, I am of the opinion that we only
needed to heat the pack during storage and prior to the first run down the
track ( the hard discharge and quick recharge warms things up pretty
quick!). After we reached 100 degrees F, the issue rapidly became one of
cooling (dry ice + fans were fairly effective).
Keep up the great work!

-Tom
On Jun 4, 2016 10:24 AM, "paul dove via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> There are different requirements for blankets sold in the USA. They must
> be low power compared to the ones sold in other countries.
>
>   From: Bobby Keeland via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>; John Lindsay <
> johnslind...@mac.com>
>  Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2016 8:27 AM
>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating
>
>   I used an electric blanket under a water bed through an entire winter.
> It worked fine while turned on the entire time.
>
>   Under a bunch of batteries in a moving vehicle I would not trust.
> Bob Keeland
> On Jun 4, 2016 7:48 AM, "John Lindsay via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> We use them under people in Australia. Not recommended to be left on when
> you're in bed but folks do.
>
> John Lindsay
>
> > On 4 Jun 2016, at 9:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
> >>
> >> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a
> battery
> >> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these
> blankets will
> >> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
> little
> >> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
> automatic
> >> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.
> >
> > Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.
> >
> > One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a
> traditional
> > mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave.
> >
> > "Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square
> > wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero
> volts
> > 120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage
> > opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen
> if
> > you tried to use it on DC.
> >
> > If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a
> > mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.
> >
> > I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric
> blanket
> > thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every
> few
> > minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature
> falls.
> > Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery
> > temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery
> > temperature.
> >
> > Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be
> > exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.
> >
> > Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have
> > weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> > reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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> >
> >
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> Re

Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[paul dove via EV]

There are different requirements for blankets sold in the USA. They must be low 
power compared to the ones sold in other countries. 

  From: Bobby Keeland via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>; John Lindsay 
<johnslind...@mac.com> 
 Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2016 8:27 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating
   
  I used an electric blanket under a water bed through an entire winter.
It worked fine while turned on the entire time.

  Under a bunch of batteries in a moving vehicle I would not trust.
Bob Keeland
On Jun 4, 2016 7:48 AM, "John Lindsay via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

We use them under people in Australia. Not recommended to be left on when
you're in bed but folks do.

John Lindsay

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 9:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
>
>> On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
>>
>> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a
battery
>> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these
blankets will
>> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
little
>> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
automatic
>> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.
>
> Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.
>
> One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a
traditional
> mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave.
>
> "Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square
> wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero
volts
> 120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage
> opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen
if
> you tried to use it on DC.
>
> If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a
> mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.
>
> I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric blanket
> thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every
few
> minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature
falls.
> Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery
> temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery
> temperature.
>
> Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be
> exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.
>
> Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have
> weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[dovepa via EV]

I am no expert on electric blankets but isn't it just a resistive heating 
element? As long as the controller doesn't have a timer that cuts it on and off 
it shouldn't care what sort of power is connected. A modified sine wave will 
change the output of a crystal oscillator so if one is used in a timer it would 
not work right but I doubt blankets are that complicated.
Should work just fine IMO.


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Bill Dennis via EV  
Date: 6/3/16  11:39 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' 
 Subject: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating 
I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a battery
pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these blankets
will work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
little control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
automatic shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave
inverter.

Thanks,

Bill Dennis 

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Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

   I used an electric blanket under a water bed through an entire winter.
It worked fine while turned on the entire time.

   Under a bunch of batteries in a moving vehicle I would not trust.
Bob Keeland
On Jun 4, 2016 7:48 AM, "John Lindsay via EV"  wrote:

We use them under people in Australia. Not recommended to be left on when
you're in bed but folks do.

John Lindsay

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 9:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:
>
>> On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
>>
>> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a
battery
>> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these
blankets will
>> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
little
>> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
automatic
>> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.
>
> Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.
>
> One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a
traditional
> mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave.
>
> "Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square
> wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero
volts
> 120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage
> opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen
if
> you tried to use it on DC.
>
> If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a
> mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.
>
> I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric blanket
> thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every
few
> minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature
falls.
> Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery
> temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery
> temperature.
>
> Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be
> exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.
>
> Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have
> weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[John Lindsay via EV]

We use them under people in Australia. Not recommended to be left on when 
you're in bed but folks do. 

John Lindsay

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 9:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a battery
>> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these blankets 
>> will
>> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's little
>> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an automatic
>> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.
> 
> Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.  
> 
> One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a traditional 
> mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave. 
> 
> "Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square 
> wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero volts 
> 120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage 
> opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen if 
> you tried to use it on DC.  
> 
> If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a 
> mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.
> 
> I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric blanket 
> thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every few 
> minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature falls. 
> Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery 
> temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery 
> temperature.
> 
> Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be 
> exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.
> 
> Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have 
> weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:

> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a battery
> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these blankets will
> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's little
> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an automatic
> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.

Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.  

One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a traditional 
mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave. 

"Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square 
wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero volts 
120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage 
opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen if 
you tried to use it on DC.  

If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a 
mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.

I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric blanket 
thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every few 
minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature falls. 
Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery 
temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery 
temperature.

Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be 
exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.

Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have 
weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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