Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-20 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV 
I tend to view it as the latter. They are energy companies, and need to profit 
and make shareholders happy. If their way of doing things looks like it might 
be headed in secular decline, they will adjust... or die.

At a minimum, they are taking a tiny hedge.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 9:25 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> You can look at this two ways. One is that the petroleum industry will do 
> everything to protect their base and kill EVs. The other is that some may 
> recognize that their days relying on petroleum are limited and they need to 
> branch out. Those who do it right will be big winners. I won't say it's a bed 
> of roses when mega corporations get involved. They will be in it to make a 
> profit and, with that, will come politics and less consumer intimacy. But 
> they will make the industry grow.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
> To: "Lawrence Winiarski" ; "Electric Vehicle 
> Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" 
> Sent: 19-Oct-18 4:36:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
> 
>> You’re too late - Total bought the biggest EV charging company in the UK.
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of the 
>>> EV industry doesn't bother you
>>> How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
>>> To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" 
>>> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
>>> 
>>> The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford 
>>> or Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  
>>> It's because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or 
>>> use the product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-19 Thread Peri Hartman via EV 
You can look at this two ways. One is that the petroleum industry will 
do everything to protect their base and kill EVs. The other is that some 
may recognize that their days relying on petroleum are limited and they 
need to branch out. Those who do it right will be big winners. I won't 
say it's a bed of roses when mega corporations get involved. They will 
be in it to make a profit and, with that, will come politics and less 
consumer intimacy. But they will make the industry grow.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" 
To: "Lawrence Winiarski" ; "Electric 
Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" 
Sent: 19-Oct-18 4:36:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

You’re too late - Total bought the biggest EV charging company in the 
UK.


- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Oct 19, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV 
 wrote:


Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of 
the EV industry doesn't bother you
How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer 
Research?




 From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" 
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a 
Ford or Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes 
Suburbans.  It's because of how well the car meets their needs That 
they buy stock or use the product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..



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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-19 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV 
You’re too late - Total bought the biggest EV charging company in the UK.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of the EV 
> industry doesn't bother you
> How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?
> 
> 
> 
>  From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
> To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
> Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
> 
> The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford 
> or Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
> because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
> product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  
> 
>   
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-19 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
Well you got me on that point of view. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Lawrence 
Winiarski wrote:   Well if the Idea of Homicidal, 
Petroleum producers, having control of the EV industry doesn't bother you
How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?



  From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
  
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford or 
Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  

  
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-19 Thread Lawrence Winiarski via EV 
Well if the Idea of Homicidal, Petroleum producers, having control of the EV 
industry doesn't bother you
How do you feel about the Tobacco Institute taking over Cancer Research?



  From: Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 To: "ev@lists.evdl.org"  
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
 Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
   
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford or 
Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  

  
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-19 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
The fact that Bonnie and Clyde and other criminals of the 30's liked a Ford or 
Chevy didn't hurt those companies.  The mafia still likes Suburbans.  It's 
because of how well the car meets their needs That they buy stock or use the 
product shouldn't matter.  Lawrence Rhodes..  

   
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-19 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 18 Oct 2018 at 22:50, robert winfield via EV wrote:

> absolutely, categorically it is completely false to even imply that
> Musk and the Saudi's were joining forces in any way except as
> antagonists 

I can't see where "absolutely, categorically" false comes from here.  Nor do 
I see any antagonism, other than the fact that the Saudis also invested in a 
Tesla competitor, though I might have missed something.  

Don't forget that Elon Musk is at core a businessman.  

He may be more "green" (environmentally focused) than most business people, 
and perhaps one of the  greenest CEO in the auto sector, and thank goodness 
for that.  We need more of that in business.

However, the green of money also matters to him. And if he doesn't manage to 
turn a profit with Tesla, he's not going to be able to continue making cars 
for very long.  Can you imagine how it would all go down if he had to sell 
Tesla to, say, Ford or GM?  

Right now, Tesla still needs investors.  The Saudi Wealth Fund is one of 
them.  They invested in Tesla.  That's a matter of public record.  

Important: they invested on the open market.  It's quite possible that Musk 
didn't invite them to do so and had no foreknowledge of the investment. 

But even if that's so, he DID take note of it.  And when Musk was floating 
the idea of taking Tesla private, he bragged that he had financing lined up. 
If I understand the reports correctly, some of that financing, though not 
all, would have been from the Saudi Wealth Fund.

So clearly he'd discussed and negotiated that financing with the Saudis.  Is 
that "joining forces"? Depends on your perspective, I guess.

The thing is, the above matters are already public knowledge.   No matter 
how much some folks here might want to help Tesla by shushing everyone else 
up about it, so as not to feed the Tesla naysayers, it's too late.  The 
proverbial cat is out of the proverbial bag.  The proverbial horse has fled 
the proverbial barn.  Et cetera.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-18 Thread robert winfield via EV 
 Nope, the original email implied that there was a mutual agreement to join up 
with Saudi's, which is patently false and has no proofThe stock price surged 
that day due to the Saudi's and was an unwelcome addition to the failed taking 
privatebut absolutely, categorically it is completely false to even imply that 
Musk and the Saudi's were joining forces in any way except as antagonistsPlease 
refrain from implying anything other than that,ok.If falsehoods get spread they 
get pounced upon without mercy, especially on an EV list, where folks are 
supposed to be both informed and have lots of knowledge. 
On Thursday, October 18, 2018, 5:29:57 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 18 Oct 2018 at 19:13, robert winfield via EV wrote:

>  seriously?sell to Saudi'snope wrong wrong wrong you aredidnt happen

Not entirely right, but not entirely wrong either.

The Saudi wealth fund bought Tesla stock. Now it's investing in Lucid, a 
Tesla competitor

Sep 18, 2018

"Earlier this year, the Saudi fund bought Tesla shares on the open market 
totaling between 3% and 5% of the company, the Financial Times has reported. 
In August, when Elon Musk flirted briefly with the idea of taking Tesla 
private, he identified the Saudi fund, along with Volkswagen, as funding 
sources."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-lucid-saudi-investment-20180918-
story.html

https://v.gd/u23NAX

Also:

Saudi Fund in Talks to Invest in Tesla Buyout Deal

August 12, 2018

"The Saudi Kingdom´s Public Investment Fund is working to be part of any 
investor pool that emerges to take Tesla private, people with knowledge of 
the fund´s plans told Bloomberg News on Sunday. The fund, which recently 
built a stake just shy of 5 percent, is exploring how it can be involved, 
the people said on condition of anonymity."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-12/saudi-fund-is-said-to-be-
in-talks-to-invest-in-tesla-buyout-deal

https://v.gd/27afU0

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-18 Thread Lawrence Winiarski via EV 
Yeah it was 5%.and they were allegedly saying that they could buy a whole 
bunch more... enough to make Tesla private.
From only a few weeks agohere's some Saudi Info.
https://www.tesla.com/BLOG/update-taking-tesla-private


All I was saying is I think it was a damn good thing for  Tesla that it never 
went anywhere.


  From: EVDL Administrator via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
Cc: EVDL Administrator 
 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 2:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?
   
On 18 Oct 2018 at 19:13, robert winfield via EV wrote:

>  seriously?sell to Saudi'snope wrong wrong wrong you aredidnt happen

Not entirely right, but not entirely wrong either.

The Saudi wealth fund bought Tesla stock. Now it's investing in Lucid, a 
Tesla competitor

Sep 18, 2018

"Earlier this year, the Saudi fund bought Tesla shares on the open market 
totaling between 3% and 5% of the company, the Financial Times has reported. 
In August, when Elon Musk flirted briefly with the idea of taking Tesla 
private, he identified the Saudi fund, along with Volkswagen, as funding 
sources."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-lucid-saudi-investment-20180918-
story.html

https://v.gd/u23NAX

Also:

Saudi Fund in Talks to Invest in Tesla Buyout Deal

August 12, 2018

"The Saudi Kingdom´s Public Investment Fund is working to be part of any 
investor pool that emerges to take Tesla private, people with knowledge of 
the fund´s plans told Bloomberg News on Sunday. The fund, which recently 
built a stake just shy of 5 percent, is exploring how it can be involved, 
the people said on condition of anonymity."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-12/saudi-fund-is-said-to-be-
in-talks-to-invest-in-tesla-buyout-deal

https://v.gd/27afU0

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 18 Oct 2018 at 19:13, robert winfield via EV wrote:

>  seriously?sell to Saudi'snope wrong wrong wrong you aredidnt happen

Not entirely right, but not entirely wrong either.

The Saudi wealth fund bought Tesla stock. Now it's investing in Lucid, a 
Tesla competitor

Sep 18, 2018

"Earlier this year, the Saudi fund bought Tesla shares on the open market 
totaling between 3% and 5% of the company, the Financial Times has reported. 
In August, when Elon Musk flirted briefly with the idea of taking Tesla 
private, he identified the Saudi fund, along with Volkswagen, as funding 
sources."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-lucid-saudi-investment-20180918-
story.html

https://v.gd/u23NAX

Also:

Saudi Fund in Talks to Invest in Tesla Buyout Deal

August 12, 2018

"The Saudi Kingdom´s Public Investment Fund is working to be part of any 
investor pool that emerges to take Tesla private, people with knowledge of 
the fund´s plans told Bloomberg News on Sunday. The fund, which recently 
built a stake just shy of 5 percent, is exploring how it can be involved, 
the people said on condition of anonymity."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-12/saudi-fund-is-said-to-be-
in-talks-to-invest-in-tesla-buyout-deal

https://v.gd/27afU0

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla...Can you imagine what could have happened?

2018-10-18 Thread robert winfield via EV 
 seriously?sell to Saudi'snope wrong wrong wrong you aredidnt happen
On Thursday, October 18, 2018, 3:03:45 PM EDT, Lawrence Winiarski via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 
Musk was just last month trying to sell it to the Saudi's..in a deal that 
allegedly fell through
.Now with them killing a Washington Post Journalist and Saudi Arabian princes 
looking more like the mafia than anelectric car savior
I think Tesla and Elon Musk might have nearly destroyed the Tesla brand had 
they been successful,
Something they should be thanking their lucky stars over



      From: Mark Abramowitz via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
Cc: Mark Abramowitz 
 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:27 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla, Edison-Tesla Deja Vu [Free 
Supercharging!]
  
Ok, thanks.

I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken!

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 10:15 AM, John Blair via EV  wrote:
> 
> You can check the prices on the Tesla website.  It is different in different 
> states.  Tesla prefers to charge by kWh, but some states don’t allow that so 
> they charge by the minute in two tiers depending on where you are in the 
> charge cycle (above 60kW rate or below).  In California it is 26¢/kWhr. My 
> last trip from Northern California to Southern California in my Model 3 was 
> just under $20 (and I left home 90% full) and about the same on the way home. 
>  Each stop was 15-20 minutes and I was busy the entire time taking my dog for 
> a quick potty break, giving her water, and having a snack.  I actually ended 
> up charging more than I needed to each time. If the car charged in 5 minutes, 
> it would not have been any faster for me.  
> 
> John
> ---
> John G. Blair
> Occidental, California
> 707-874-2399
> http://www.blairstudio.com - Impressionistic Art
> i...@jgblairphoto.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been told $20.
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My understanding is that the cost to use the supercharger network à la 
>>> carte is relatively reasonable (price wise) when compared to buying 
>>> gasoline for a trip of a similar distance. Perhaps somebody with a Tesla 
>>> that doesn't come with free supercharging can report on the prices?
> 
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