Re: What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 05:27:33PM -0400, Jesse Mazer wrote: I don't know what compiler optimization flags are, but if the trajectories Compiler optimization flags tell the compiler to optimize generated code more aggressively, which may even break your code, at a high optimization setting.

RE: where do copies come from?

2005-07-12 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Brent Meeker writes: [quoting Stathis Papaioannou] In the case of the heart the simpler artificial pump might be just as good, but in the case of a brain, the electrical activity of each and every neuron is intrinsically important in the final result. That last seems extremely dubious.

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-12 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 10:38:35PM -0700, George Levy wrote: Stathis Papaioannou wrote: The ionic gradients across cell membranes determine the transmembrane potential and how close the neuron is to the voltage threshold which will trigger an action potential by opening transmembrane ion

RE: The Time Deniers

2005-07-12 Thread Lee Corbin
Hal Finney writes Lee Corbin writes: Hal Finney writes Can we imagine a universe like ours, which follows exactly the same natural laws, but where time doesn't really exist (in some sense), where there is no actual causality? You yourself have already provided the key example in

The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a dimension

2005-07-12 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Chris, I hope to be able to convince you that the ideas that you express below do not yield a coherent narrative. But you must make up your own mind. There are so many assumptions being made that must be reconsidered... What is your background?- Original Message - From: "chris

Re: The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a dimension

2005-07-12 Thread daddycaylor
[SPK] Oh no, I am not a time denier. I am arguing that Change, no, Becoming, is a Fundamental aspect of Existence and not Static Being. ...Try this idea: We do NOT exist in a single space-time manifold. That structure is a collective illusion - but still a reality- that results from the

RE: What if computation is unrepeatable?

2005-07-12 Thread Jesse Mazer
I wrote: And when they say the performance is variable, I think they're talking about some measure of performance during a single execution of a given program, not about repeating the execution of the same program multiple times and finding variations from one run to another. Looks like I

Re: UDA, Am I missing something?

2005-07-12 Thread daddycaylor
Tom: I guess I'll have to ponder this more. In general I am uncomfortable with having terms like physics and psychology/consciousness defined (redefined?) later on in an argument rather than at the beginning.    Bruno: That is a little bit curious because in SANE I *exceptionally* do give

Rép : UDA, Am I missing something?

2005-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 11-juil.-05, à 19:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Actually this particular quote seems to present consciousness as the ontological counterpart to the epistemological fundamental psychology, just as matter is considered the ontological counterpart to epistemological fundamental physics.

RE: The Time Deniers

2005-07-12 Thread Hal Finney
Lee Corbin writes: Perhaps you could address the biggest stumbling block that perhaps I still have: continuity. I'll even go out on a limb and suggest that *continuity* is really what bothers a lot of people. A lot of us (e.g. Jesse Mazer) are quite okay with, say, a program that uses the

Re: UDA, Am I missing something?

2005-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 12-juil.-05, à 20:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Tom: My exception to your hypotheses was supposedly independent of Church's thesis or arithmetic realism, but the objection was regarding your definition of physics, which seems too narrow to me. But now I am pondering your rebuttal of

RE: The Time Deniers

2005-07-12 Thread Jesse Mazer
Hal Finney wrote: I imagine that multiple universes could exist, a la Schmidhuber's ensemble or Tegmark's level 4 multiverse. Time does not play a special role in the descriptions of these universes. Doesn't Schmidhuber consider only universes that are the results of computations? Can't we

RE: The Time Deniers

2005-07-12 Thread Hal Finney
Jesse Mazer writes: Hal Finney wrote: I imagine that multiple universes could exist, a la Schmidhuber's ensemble or Tegmark's level 4 multiverse. Time does not play a special role in the descriptions of these universes. Doesn't Schmidhuber consider only universes that are the results of

Re: The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a dimension

2005-07-12 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Tom, I do not understand how you arrived at that conclusion! I am arguing that Existence - the Dasein of Kant - is independent of space-time; space-time is secondary. I would like to better undertand your idea being as (roughly) the integral of change, and change as the derivative of

Re: The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a dimension

2005-07-12 Thread daddycaylor
[SPK] Oh no, I am not a time denier. I am arguing that Change, no, Becoming, is a Fundamental aspect of Existence and not Static Being. ...Try this idea: We do NOT exist in a single space-time manifold. That structure is a collective illusion - but still a reality- that results from the