Re: why can't we erase information?

2006-05-02 Thread John M
Russell, you 'opem' and 'close' a system? Why woulod you close it, once it is already open? and how would you find it again, when it is closed? And how do you assess those "closed system laws", if no info goes in or out? (need an intelligent design?) Is OUR time-scale valid to the inside of an u

Re: why can't we erase information?

2006-05-02 Thread John M
Tom, yhou are right: my remark was not aiming AT YOUR implied situation of 'from inside' of the system. The outside case YOU DID ACCEPT AS OK, but you play with words. If < n o > interaction can leave the system (you are outside) then it cannot "allow output" whatsoever. None. If there aint, there

Re: why can't we erase information?

2006-05-02 Thread Tom Caylor
In a general sense, if we (the observer) are outside of the system, there is a definition of "closed system" which allows output from the system, even though there is no input into the system, *if such a configuration is possible*. If there is no output, I agree with you that the system is unknow

Re: why can't we erase information?

2006-05-02 Thread Russell Standish
We can observe a closed system at two points in time t0, t1 say. The system is closed in between, but not at the point of observation, obviously. The evolution of the system between the two observation points must follow closed system laws. Cheers On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 06:42:26PM -0700, John