Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Sep 2015, at 08:41, Pierz wrote: On Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 2:24:36 AM UTC+10, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Sep 2015, at 14:11, Pierz wrote: I disagree with most of the theorising about this scenario, which seems to me to be coming from a much too theoretical place. Humans

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-26 Thread Pierz
On Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 2:24:36 AM UTC+10, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 25 Sep 2015, at 14:11, Pierz wrote: > > I disagree with most of the theorising about this scenario, which seems to > me to be coming from a much too theoretical place. Humans may or may not be > computational

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Sep 2015, at 04:21, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 06:24:29PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: The blank state is more like the state you are in before your parent met. It is consciousness before any distinction, nor differentiation. I was against that idea, like Brouwer,

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Sep 2015, at 14:11, Pierz wrote: I disagree with most of the theorising about this scenario, which seems to me to be coming from a much too theoretical place. Humans may or may not be computational at base, but we are not PCs. We are not blank slates, waiting for an operating system

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-25 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 06:24:29PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The blank state is more like the state you are in before your parent > met. It is consciousness before any distinction, nor > differentiation. I was against that idea, like Brouwer, but I have > to say that salvia has throw a big

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-25 Thread Pierz
I disagree with most of the theorising about this scenario, which seems to me to be coming from a much too theoretical place. Humans may or may not be computational at base, but we are not PCs. We are not blank slates, waiting for an operating system to be installed. Our brains and bodies imply

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Brian, Telmo and others, On 21 Sep 2015, at 02:49, Telmo Menezes wrote: Hi Brian, That's an interesting question. My take is this: I think trying to understand that experience is like trying to understand what it feels like to be an amoeba. It's just too alien. I am not sure. I can

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Sep 2015, at 03:16, Brent Meeker wrote: If you raise kittens in complete darkness for a few weeks they never develop vision. I don't think people who are born blind hallucinate visions. Those are couple of data points. I suspect that if a person were to grow up without any

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-21 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
m Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 6:09 AM Subject: Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams On 21 Sep 2015, at 03:16, Brent Meeker wrote: If you raise kittens in complete darkness for a few weeks they never develop vision.  I don't think people who are born blind hallucinate visions.  T

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-21 Thread John Mikes
esult would be the same. > > -Chris > > -- > *From:* Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2015 6:09 AM > *Subject:* Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams > > > On 21 Se

Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-20 Thread Brian Tenneson
I wonder what would happen to someone's mind if they were born in a white (or any color) isolation tank. What would happen as years wore on? Would the person ever hallucinate anything? It has only seen the tank for his whole life. So what would inspire him to hallucinate something? Can he

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-20 Thread Telmo Menezes
Hi Brian, That's an interesting question. My take is this: I think trying to understand that experience is like trying to understand what it feels like to be an amoeba. It's just too alien. We have some clues. For example, it is known that if children don't learn a language until a certain age,

Re: Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-20 Thread Brent Meeker
If you raise kittens in complete darkness for a few weeks they never develop vision. I don't think people who are born blind hallucinate visions. Those are couple of data points. I suspect that if a person were to grow up without any sensory input, or extremely impoverished ones, they would

Some questions on ontology of dreams

2015-09-20 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sunday, 20 September 2015, Brian Tenneson wrote: > I wonder what would happen to someone's mind if they were born in a white > (or any color) isolation tank. What would happen as years wore on? Would > the person ever hallucinate anything? It has only seen the tank for his