Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-07 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Jesse Mazer wrote: [quoting Stathis, responding to a post by George Levy] The high standard I have described does not go nearly as far as copying the exact quantum state of every atom. It is merely aknowledging the fact that information in brains is not stored in the anatomical arrangement of

Re: The Time Deniers and the idea of time as a dimension

2005-07-07 Thread Pete Carlton
On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Stephen Paul King wrote:PC:But isn't the use of time as the dimension along which things vary  (or are 'processed') a somewhat arbitrary choice?[SPK]   Please notice that the identification of "time" with a "dimension" involves the identification with each moment in

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-07 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 04:51:23PM +1000, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I have no problem with the idea that everything about a person's personality, memories etc. is physically encoded in his brain, and that in principle, sufficiently detailed knowledge about his brain should allow an

Re: One more question about measure

2005-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 06-juil.-05, à 00:56, Russell Standish a écrit : You are right, my apologies. I read the necessitation rule backwards in your thesis. You do in fact say P = []P. I'll take your word for it that consistency destroys necessitation, but I don't have the intuitive understanding of it yet. Never

Re: Thought Experiment #269-G (Duplicates)

2005-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 06-juil.-05, à 02:44, Lee Corbin a écrit : Bruno wrote about whether or not we are all the same person. Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:59 AM Subject: Re: What does ought mean? (was RE: Duplicates Are Selves) I have changed the subject line once again, because this is no longer about

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-07 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 12:49:07PM +1000, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: The high standard I have described does not go nearly as far as copying the exact quantum state of every atom. It is merely aknowledging the fact Two systems in the same quantum state being indistinguishable is only

Re: The Time Deniers

2005-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 06-juil.-05, à 07:16, Russell Standish a écrit : On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 06:47:40PM -0700, Lee Corbin wrote: There have been many, many investigations of this idea. It may not be an exaggeration to say that the main theme of this list has been a pursuit of the idea. But Stephen Paul King

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 07-juil.-05, à 04:55, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : How does a quasi-zombie differ from a full zombie? Well a full zombie is not conscious at all. By a quasi-zombie I was meaning someone with some consciousness pathologies. And how could his descendants ever realise this, even

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 07-juil.-05, à 08:51, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit : If mind uploads were to become a reality, I think the best strategy would be research into brain-computer interfacing. I think so. I have recently discovered impressioning progress in neuronal nets used for handicaped (completely

Re: where do copies come from?

2005-07-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 07-juil.-05, à 16:27, Eugen Leitl a écrit : Currently, there's only output, not input. It's invasive, and the electrodes don't age well. Actually (but I'm not a specialist) I read about systems not using electrodes. The neural nets was sensible to the waves of barin activity like in a

Re: The Time Deniers

2005-07-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Lee: At 09:47 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: snip Where I join you (in failing to understand) is what happens as the OM becomes of zero length. I did not say *the limit as it becomes zero*, I said zero. It's almost as though some people take this as license to suppose that time is not a

Re: The Time Deniers

2005-07-07 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Hal, Which is primitive in your thinking: Being or Becoming? Stephen - Original Message - From: Hal Ruhl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: Re: The Time Deniers Hi Lee: At 09:47 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: snip

Re: The Time Deniers

2005-07-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Stephen: At 03:03 PM 7/7/2005, you wrote: Dear Hal, Which is primitive in your thinking: Being or Becoming? Stephen Let me try it this way: 1) All possible states preexist [Existence]. 2) The system has a random dynamic [the Nothing is incomplete in the All/Nothing system and must

UDA, Am I missing something?

2005-07-07 Thread daddycaylor
Bruno, After reading your Universal Dovetailer Argument (UDA) and I?d like to give you my reaction. It seems to me that the trick is hidden in your assumptions. I think you?ve even stated that before (using ?embedded? rather than ?hidden?), referring especially to comp. But I?d say that

Re: The Time Deniers

2005-07-07 Thread jamikes
Dear Hal, let me know if my (naive) worldview on Stephen's question is compatible with what you wrote (below): (to1: I don't know what to do with all possible because it is far beyond any idea we may have. Unless we restrict the 'all' to whatever we can think/know of). to2: In the inherent and

RE: Thought Experiment #269-G (Duplicates)

2005-07-07 Thread Lee Corbin
Bruno writes Each Lee-i is offered 5$ each time his bet is confirmed, but loses 5$ if he makes a wrong bet. And yes, it would be possible to emphasize to each instance that he is to attempt to maximize his own instance's earnings. Quite correct. What will be your strategy in each