Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.
Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy Tentative meaning would be more suitable than the word opinion. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/9/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-08, 11:07:17 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so. Hi Roger, On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy ? Better data connected to opinion than opinion alone. ? How is opinion not connected to data? Have you found a way of neatly separating the information and data from opinion and beliefs? If you have, please share and if not:? this is straw man, that can't even stand on its pole. I've spent days in Sheldrake land and Sheldrake has spent days in McKenna land; it seems to become more and more clear why you post 10 videos and can't complete watching 1 other video from the same Channel you posted, with McKenna that Sheldrake has produced numerous talks with, before things become distasteful in your words. Sheldrake had miserable taste then too, according to your reasoning... Why would you listen to some guy that takes that distasteful drug advocate seriously? PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.
Hi Roger, On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy Better data connected to opinion than opinion alone. How is opinion not connected to data? Have you found a way of neatly separating the information and data from opinion and beliefs? If you have, please share and if not: this is straw man, that can't even stand on its pole. I've spent days in Sheldrake land and Sheldrake has spent days in McKenna land; it seems to become more and more clear why you post 10 videos and can't complete watching 1 other video from the same Channel you posted, with McKenna that Sheldrake has produced numerous talks with, before things become distasteful in your words. Sheldrake had miserable taste then too, according to your reasoning... Why would you listen to some guy that takes that distasteful drug advocate seriously? PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.
Hi Alberto G. Corona I have no problem with natural selection, it is a reasonable hypothesis. But natural selection implies some form of intelligence, which materialism cannot explain. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/7/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-07, 07:05:29 Subject: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so. it is perfectly possible to accept natural selection with all the implication in genetics without being a materialist. The materialism is a superfluous ideological substrate. ?heldrake is right about this critic of materialism. I? not materialist, and I accept Natural selection. ?aterialism is the logical consequence of the distrust of the human intellect that was Nominalism. This distrust ?ondemned to?n-existence any inner knowledge and ?eified only what produced effect that other can observe in the short term (complex and long term effects were disqualified because they where not so easily observable). So material is anything experimental, that is anything that is enough simple and enough?mmediate?o be observable by many. This excludes long term, complex knowledge imprinted in the mind innately?r culturally by natural or social selection. Then the common sense, the human aspirations, motivations and beliefs, are condemned to subjectivity, and rejected as object of study, only as matter of belief for the believers or a matter of engineering for the nonbelievers. ?? not being materialist besides I accept natural Selection. NS is not an ?gent of causation on the deep. neither matter is. Matter is ??ubstrate. It is? the sensible part that we perceive. this perception is composed by the mind, from the input of the anthropically selected mathematical reality. Natural selection only happens ?or beings living in time like us. From a timeless view, from above, the universe has spacetime locations where there is no dynamic of selection. There are only existence and inexistence. there are good spacetime trajectories that diverge and flourish and bad ones that are death paths. ?hese paths have precise physiological and social laws in the same whay that they have phisical laws, that are derived from ?he mathematical structure of reality that indeed IMHO are a consequence of the antrophic principle of existence of the mind.? It seems that the mind is computation, but the physical substrate, which is ultimately?athematical, only?eflect this computation as well as the mind, but matter, being a product of the mind, can?not ?e?the causation of the mind. As a product of the mind, ?atter is a proxy for the study of the mind. trough natural selection.. Because NS is how we, as temporal beings perceive the very long term coherence between the mind and the anthropicallly selected mathematical reality 2013/1/6 Platonist Guitar Cowboy On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy ? You've obviously never watched one of Sheldrake's lectures. Watched, listened, and even read some things a few years back. I sincerely tried to open my mind, but when I realized I was forcing that, instead of doing my homework, I dropped him. Doesn't mean he hasn't changed, but what you posted sounds like the old song. Maybe my prejudice. ? All of his speculations are supported with empirical data. You'll find some of it on his website, others in his books and lectures. Aware of that. ? I?atched the first hour of McKenna's lecture as given below, It was essentially a promo for taking drugs, and it showed no data, so finding him distasteful after watching for an hour, I gave up. ? May I ask what approximate criteria you associate with taste in this case? ? So where's all of McKenna's data? He never pretended to have any. He's self-avowed fool: the object of this talk is that you never have to hear this sort of thing again in your life; you can put that behind you paraphrased from video. ? I think he died about a decade ago of some brain problem (could it have been from taking drugs?). Begging. ? His brother became a drug addict also, don't know what happened to him. ? Same again, which seems to indicate you don't really care. Otherwise one google search and click would've wikied you this on a silver plate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_McKenna PGC [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-05, 07:15:28 Subject: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so. Hi Everythingsters, When things get a little fringe, I want the best bang for my buck (time reading/listening in this case). Here Sheldrake only
Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy You're allowed to have that opinion, or any opinion. We're different. I am a retired laboratory scientist and a pragmatist to boot. So to me, data trumnps everything. So I will believe that the moon is made of green cheese if there's data to suppport that. Not to me, I'll give you that. Data is as important as who is delivering the data and how it was collected, as data is hardly separable from belief about data. And you wouldn't believe the moon is made of green cheese, because you'd probably not like the data's taste and stop reading/listening in under an hour, well before the conclusion of the talk or paper, as you show above with McKenna, when you throw out ten videos for everyone to see, but will not be able to finish just one, posted by the same youtube uploader you chose, that somebody in this thread puts up, clicking on your links. This paints a picture, I do not have to elaborate. Drugs and their promotion, entirely misses McKenna's narrative focus as the semantics with which you use the term, do not apply to what he's talking about. Drugs in your usage do not exist, implying some definite ethical line between permissible and non-permissible pleasures, which is about as far removed from McKenna's speculations as you can get. It's seems not surprising that you don't listen to a talk, when you post ten. PGC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.
Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy Better data connected to opinion than opinion alone. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/7/2013 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-07, 08:33:45 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so. On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy ? You're allowed to have that opinion, or any opinion. ? We're different. I am a retired laboratory scientist and a pragmatist to boot. ?o to me, data trumnps everything. So I will believe that the moon is made of green cheese if there's data to suppport that. ? ? Not to me, I'll give you that. Data is as important as who is delivering the data and how it was collected, as data is hardly separable from belief about data. And you wouldn't believe the moon is made of green cheese, because you'd probably not like the data's taste and stop reading/listening in under an hour, well before the conclusion of the talk or paper, as you show above with McKenna, when you throw out ten videos for everyone to see, but will not be able to finish just one, posted by the same youtube uploader you chose, that somebody in this thread puts up, clicking on your links. This paints a picture, I do not have to elaborate. Drugs and their promotion, entirely misses McKenna's narrative focus as the semantics with which you use the term, do not apply to what he's talking about. Drugs in your usage do not exist, implying some definite ethical line between permissible and non-permissible pleasures, which is about as far removed from McKenna's speculations as you can get. It's seems not surprising that you don't listen to a talk, when you post ten. PGC ? ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
